Spyder Forums  

Go Back   Spyder Forums > General Spyder Discussion > Veteran Forum
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-11-2006, 07:35 AM
Hob Hayward's Avatar
Hob Hayward Hob Hayward is offline
not a nublet, sheesh.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 2,848
Default Cocker not cycling quickly

So I bought a used cocker as a few of you know, and now I'm gettin problems with it. Acctually its been a problem since I got it. FIrst it wouldn't cycle, then the velocity was way too low, and now the final problem is that it won't cycle faster than maybe 5 cps. The only things I can think that would be cuasing the problem would be low recharge from the LPR, restricitve microline or the ram is messed up. The LPR is set higher than need be from what I've been told, because its impossible to pull the bolt back without an airline coming off. It was suggested that possibly my timing rod on the 3 way is off aswell?


Any and all help is much appreciated.
__________________
05 Imagine
Palmer stabilizer
Maddman Rocket valve
Trinity Front block
IPS Sunbear Bolt
Dark Horizon titanium striker

Green/silver VSC CCI Phantom

Red/Black PMR SE
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-11-2006, 10:15 AM
Gee Tee's Avatar
Gee Tee Gee Tee is offline
New Guy
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dartford - UK
Posts: 18
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

Hi Hob,
You mention the velocity is low - are you sure there's sufficient pressure getting into the gun from the bottle? There are other factors that effect cocker velocity such as 3 way timing, springs and hammer/valve combo, but it could be a restriction in air supply. I run a 6mm bore micro hose on mine and it flows plenty. You don't mention if you are running an intermediate HP reg on the gun. I've a WGP ergo reg on mine set to around 600psi. Tried lower pressures but had to run silly spring combinations to get velocity up & the consistency also went AWOL.

If input pressure & air flow is ok you could swap the LPR for one that's known to be 100%, and If that doesn't cure the cocking problem try swapping ram too. You don't really need much pressure on the cocking operation - 100psi is about the norm. I rarely have to turn the tickler LPR on mine up more than a 1/3 of it's range.

If the 3 way timing's way out this can effect cocking & velocity. When the gun re-cocks too early in the trigger pull the rear block meets the hammer rod coming in, and effectively stops the hammer mid stroke. I usually set the hammer pin to give a fairly late release, and then fine tune 3 way rod to re-cock rear block as soon as possible without catching hammer rod.

If 3 way is set late it'll either give a very slow cycle rate, or if miles out may even stop the gun recocking all together . I can recommend the Hollowpoint 3 way distributed by Belsales over here in the uk. It has a very short throw, is a doddle to set up and gives a really quick cocking action. All my cockers run them at present

Belsales and details of Hollowpoint can be found here...

http://www.belsales.co.uk/pa.htm
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bling-cocker_1a.jpg (37.6 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Y2K3-body-kit_1a.jpg (38.1 KB, 8 views)
__________________
GT 1/2 man - 1/2 pogostick
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-11-2006, 12:07 PM
Hob Hayward's Avatar
Hob Hayward Hob Hayward is offline
not a nublet, sheesh.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 2,848
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

It has an 06 black magic reg on it, didn't come wit ha gauge so I'm not sure what pressure its running at, but if I adjusted it either way it would have recocking problems. I adjusted the timing a bit today and it seemed to be better at recocking. I shortened the timing rod so it cycled later in the pull, which also kept it from leaking out the front of the 3 way in the beggining of the pull. It seemed to help a bit, but the nut that holds the timing rod in place fell out and I lost it . I need to get a valve removal tool so I can acctually maintain the gun probably some new microline and a new lock nut.

Thanks so far. Is there any way to avoid rollouts other than a barrel kit?
__________________
05 Imagine
Palmer stabilizer
Maddman Rocket valve
Trinity Front block
IPS Sunbear Bolt
Dark Horizon titanium striker

Green/silver VSC CCI Phantom

Red/Black PMR SE
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-11-2006, 01:05 PM
Muddytaco's Avatar
Muddytaco Muddytaco is offline
Gun Whore Extraodinair......113 And Counting
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 2,323
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

Could you post full specs of gun? it would help knowing what parts are on it.

First thing you should do is set hpr reg to 350 and time everything from there.
__________________
www.dliveleyphotography.com

Back to gun whoring.....

armedfuture (8:12:32 PM): I'm a big angel
paintball6684 (8:16:09 PM): more like out of control, raging ginger
armedfuture (8:16:40 PM): noooooooo...........
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-11-2006, 01:31 PM
Hob Hayward's Avatar
Hob Hayward Hob Hayward is offline
not a nublet, sheesh.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 2,848
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

Well from what I was told its an 04 prostock with 06 black magic pneums, an 06 black magic in line reg and an 06 mech swing frame. However the guy who sold it to me wasn't exactly sure about that. I guess I could put the black magic on my imagine to test the output from the reg. Although, my imagine isn't working right for some reason right now, but thats an entirely different story.
__________________
05 Imagine
Palmer stabilizer
Maddman Rocket valve
Trinity Front block
IPS Sunbear Bolt
Dark Horizon titanium striker

Green/silver VSC CCI Phantom

Red/Black PMR SE

Last edited by Hob Hayward : 11-11-2006 at 02:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-11-2006, 02:41 PM
Gee Tee's Avatar
Gee Tee Gee Tee is offline
New Guy
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dartford - UK
Posts: 18
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hob Hayward
It has an 06 black magic reg on it, didn't come wit ha gauge so I'm not sure what pressure its running at, but if I adjusted it either way it would have recocking problems. I adjusted the timing a bit today and it seemed to be better at recocking. I shortened the timing rod so it cycled later in the pull, which also kept it from leaking out the front of the 3 way in the beggining of the pull. It seemed to help a bit, but the nut that holds the timing rod in place fell out and I lost it . I need to get a valve removal tool so I can acctually maintain the gun probably some new microline and a new lock nut.

Thanks so far. Is there any way to avoid rollouts other than a barrel kit?
If it's an 05/06 spec cocker you may get away with running it at lower pressure than mine. Depends how well the internals like the valve flow - i've always struggled much below 500psi. I actually leave my springing set and adjust the velocity on the HPR, even though it has the rex dialer (belsales) kit installed.

I've also lost a few grubscrews from 3 ways in the past, and now put a small dab of locktite on them once i've got the timing bang on.

Roll outs can be a problem as the detent won't hold the ball once it's chambered by the bolt. One way to reduce it is go for a 1 or 2 piece barrel, or adapter thats tight as possible on the paint you are using
__________________
GT 1/2 man - 1/2 pogostick
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-11-2006, 04:02 PM
Hob Hayward's Avatar
Hob Hayward Hob Hayward is offline
not a nublet, sheesh.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 2,848
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

As I think I may have said, when I adjust the HPR it stops cycling for whatever reason, could be the reg is kinda messed up, maybe? I know the person who had it before me knew very little about autotockers so he may never have oiled it. I've put a bunch of oil in the asa and shot it through, but it didn't seem to help much.

I'm considering sending it to WGP for fixing, and getting the guy who sold it to me to pay for that, considering he claimed it was in perfect working order when he sold it to me. Anyone ever sent their gun to WGP to be teched?
__________________
05 Imagine
Palmer stabilizer
Maddman Rocket valve
Trinity Front block
IPS Sunbear Bolt
Dark Horizon titanium striker

Green/silver VSC CCI Phantom

Red/Black PMR SE
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-12-2006, 08:09 PM
Hob Hayward's Avatar
Hob Hayward Hob Hayward is offline
not a nublet, sheesh.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 2,848
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

Images for those who wanted them:



And the last one:
__________________
05 Imagine
Palmer stabilizer
Maddman Rocket valve
Trinity Front block
IPS Sunbear Bolt
Dark Horizon titanium striker

Green/silver VSC CCI Phantom

Red/Black PMR SE

Last edited by Hob Hayward : 11-13-2006 at 01:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-17-2006, 11:37 AM
Gee Tee's Avatar
Gee Tee Gee Tee is offline
New Guy
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dartford - UK
Posts: 18
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

I still think you could do with a gauge on the HP reg to determine what pressure is actually reaching the gun. Unless you can verify the outlet pressure is a/high enough & b/consisent it'll be hard to establish if other faults on the cocker are due to a faulty HPR, LPR, bad timing set-up or combination of all three.

That body kit looks like an 2003 WGP kit by the way (same as mine) so possibly not an 05/06 model as you were told by vendor?
__________________
GT 1/2 man - 1/2 pogostick
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-17-2006, 12:39 PM
Hob Hayward's Avatar
Hob Hayward Hob Hayward is offline
not a nublet, sheesh.
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 2,848
Default Re: Cocker not cycling quickly

I was told that it was an 03 prostock, but the selle wasn't sure. I figured it was 04 because PBreview doesn't have an 03 prostock listed. I'll try the black magic reg on my imagine to check pressure etc.
__________________
05 Imagine
Palmer stabilizer
Maddman Rocket valve
Trinity Front block
IPS Sunbear Bolt
Dark Horizon titanium striker

Green/silver VSC CCI Phantom

Red/Black PMR SE
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:25 AM.