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  #1  
Old 06-10-2006, 10:21 AM
spc_graves spc_graves is offline
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Default MR2 Chopping Problems

I am glad to know I am not the only one who is having severe issues with the MR2. I hate to say this but the MR1 is leaps and bounds better than the MR2.
Here is what I have tried.

I have taken the detent out of a Pirhana and cut it down. I still chops a bit.
I have a halo backman on it, not really that speedy of a hopper, but it should keep up with the ROF (i know it says 25bps but it doesnt fire that fast consistently, realistically lets say 15bps).

Here is a solution that I have tried. I removed the ACS bolt from the gun, (come on Kingman, join us in the real world of EYES. dont just do it to the Electra. Do it to everything)

Anyway Removed the bolt. Saturated the hell out of it with some super slick. Then i took to clamps and Compressed the spring and let it sit for a few days to allow the bolt to relax a bit. This actually is more effective and faster than stuffing a rag down the neck and using up CO2. You have to let the Bolt sit for a few days though, a few hours wont work. Now I hear you can disable the ACS Bolt. well either HeMan put in that allen screw or its locktited in, because it doesnt budge easily. besides i think disabling the ACS would actually make the problem worse. I dont see how the ACS bolt is moving out of its path or moving to far to chop balls. doesnt seem right. Seems like kingman techs are like most other techs. Dont know what they are talking about, Dont play paintball, and make minimum wage so they dont care and just want you off the line.

Sorry kingman the shop I work at is a Proud and i mean Proud Retailer of Kingman Products. But your Staff needs some help. I sell the absolute crap out of the MR1, I cant keep it in the store. But the MR2 I have only sold one and that is to myself. Ive had nothing but issues with it. SO until the issues are addressed and maybe all the first generation owners are compensated or something I WONT sell anymore of them, wont even stock them and when people ask for them I will tell them all the issues I have had with mine. Its sad when you prefer to play with your MR1 that can be seen at walmart.

Speaking of MR1 and MR2. Why is it your semi auto accurate sniper style marker doesnt have toom to mount any ANY SIGHT. Why did I have to construct a sight rail for it? (yes people i made a sight rail that works like a charm and is a standard picatinny rail that will allow you to use the top cock) And why is it the MR2 has that awesome rear cock, and a FULL sight rail. Last i checked you want a sight on a semi auto that you are picking your shots and not on a full auto that shoots 25bps that you are spraying and praying with. Think maybe some engineers got it bass ackwards?

Anyway Ill get on showing you how to make the sight rail I made its very very easy and it looks very nice. It looks like something you would buy at the store for your marker.

Oh stay tuned soon Ill have a real decked out MR1. turning that 120 dollar marker into a 500 dollar high ender. (not that the MR1 needs much seeing as it unlike its big brother kicks some serious butt right out of the box)
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2006, 10:44 AM
new_Faction64's Avatar
new_Faction64 new_Faction64 is offline
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Default Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by spc_graves
I am glad to know I am not the only one who is having severe issues with the MR2. I hate to say this but the MR1 is leaps and bounds better than the MR2.
Here is what I have tried.

I have taken the detent out of a Pirhana and cut it down. I still chops a bit.
I have a halo backman on it, not really that speedy of a hopper, but it should keep up with the ROF (i know it says 25bps but it doesnt fire that fast consistently, realistically lets say 15bps).
What color detent did your MR2 come with?
On a side note, it has been discovered from audio recordings that the MR2, in full auto, can fire 13BPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spc_graves
Here is a solution that I have tried. I removed the ACS bolt from the gun, (come on Kingman, join us in the real world of EYES. dont just do it to the Electra. Do it to everything)

Anyway Removed the bolt. Saturated the hell out of it with some super slick. Then i took to clamps and Compressed the spring and let it sit for a few days to allow the bolt to relax a bit. This actually is more effective and faster than stuffing a rag down the neck and using up CO2. You have to let the Bolt sit for a few days though, a few hours wont work. Now I hear you can disable the ACS Bolt. well either HeMan put in that allen screw or its locktited in, because it doesnt budge easily. besides i think disabling the ACS would actually make the problem worse. I dont see how the ACS bolt is moving out of its path or moving to far to chop balls. doesnt seem right. Seems like kingman techs are like most other techs. Dont know what they are talking about, Dont play paintball, and make minimum wage so they dont care and just want you off the line.
What is "Super Slick"? BTW, the ACS bolt is delrin, if you oil or lube delrin, it will swell, and I do not know if it will go back to normal.

And correct, the allen screw has blue loctite in it, from what I've read. Also, since your hopper doesn't feed 18+BPS, you probably shouldn't disable the ACS mechanism. A fast hopper (18+BPS) or forcefed supposedly causes this flying-back-too-far problem, which is why people disable the ACS mechanism, that's why I said don't disable it.

*I'll also add* the ACS bolt does not come with o-rings on it (mainly because it's made from delrin), this obviously effects the blowback properties of the bolt, and makes air go all over the place, (around the bolt, behind it, through the feedneck, etc) Could this be one of the problems affecting the ACS bolt? May be this is why some have recocking problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spc_graves
Sorry kingman the shop I work at is a Proud and i mean Proud Retailer of Kingman Products. But your Staff needs some help. I sell the absolute crap out of the MR1, I cant keep it in the store. But the MR2 I have only sold one and that is to myself. Ive had nothing but issues with it. SO until the issues are addressed and maybe all the first generation owners are compensated or something I WONT sell anymore of them, wont even stock them and when people ask for them I will tell them all the issues I have had with mine. Its sad when you prefer to play with your MR1 that can be seen at walmart.

Speaking of MR1 and MR2. Why is it your semi auto accurate sniper style marker doesnt have toom to mount any ANY SIGHT. Why did I have to construct a sight rail for it? (yes people i made a sight rail that works like a charm and is a standard picatinny rail that will allow you to use the top cock) And why is it the MR2 has that awesome rear cock, and a FULL sight rail. Last i checked you want a sight on a semi auto that you are picking your shots and not on a full auto that shoots 25bps that you are spraying and praying with. Think maybe some engineers got it bass ackwards?

Anyway Ill get on showing you how to make the sight rail I made its very very easy and it looks very nice. It looks like something you would buy at the store for your marker.

Oh stay tuned soon Ill have a real decked out MR1. turning that 120 dollar marker into a 500 dollar high ender. (not that the MR1 needs much seeing as it unlike its big brother kicks some serious butt right out of the box)
I hear alot of great things about the MR1, more power to it. You can even put an e-grip onto it, which makes it a quite amazing gun.




spc_graves....as a last remark, you seem to be a big fan of Kingman products. I'd like to ask you, would you like to help the entire MR2 community out, and perhaps play around with your MR2 a bit? Figure out what the problem is? You seem to be very knowledgable.

You said you work at a store, and seem to be the owner, may be you can do some tests with the MR2, and try different hoppers on it? Get a custom o-ringed bolt for the MR2 (AlamocityPB said they are considering making a bolt for the MR2) I think if we can all figure out the final reason why the MR2 is chopping, it'll put alot of people's minds at rest. I know I would appreciate it alot.

Last edited by new_Faction64 : 06-10-2006 at 10:55 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-10-2006, 12:13 PM
spc_graves spc_graves is offline
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Default Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

I am working hard on making that MR2 work. Trust me it takes me alot to get away from my smart parts stuff. but the MR1 did it. I fell in abosolute love with the MR2 up until I had the super issues with it. BUT im hoping that Working the spring in the ACS is going to help. I have played with a Backman, Egg, B, Frontman, a crappy cheapt Extreme Rage hopper on it. I am going to try the new triumph hopper on it next and see if that helps.

The detent issue I think is solved. and Actually my MR2 had NO detent in it when i got it. I later found out that a few of my players also had the same issue. No detent at all. I robbed my detent out of an old Piranha and trimmed it down.

Super Slick wont make the bolt swell as far as I know ive seen many many people with Derlin bolts use it before. and hey if it does i know in the future to not do it. *chuckles* I know alot but I dont know it all! Im thinking I am going to check out and see how a vLocity hopper does as well.

Thanks for the compliment on the knowledge stuff man. Im not the owner of the store but I am the guy that runs it been doing this a long time, and no matter how much I know and how much i can do i keep learning more and more everyday. you just wait til i figure out how to make the internals of a spyder run on propane...> Further wait til you see my new MR1 that is getting built. (god I love being a machinist)

Oh one other thing I hope Kingman Employees read this. if the pics on the net floating around of the MR3 are real. SCRAP and REDESIGN IT that is ugly. The MR2 (though it doesnt work right) is beautiful. Leave it be, ever heard the term if it isnt broke dont fix it?
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  #4  
Old 06-10-2006, 12:21 PM
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new_Faction64 new_Faction64 is offline
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Default Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

"If it ain't broke, fix it to make it even better" is my little saying. I'm into computer hardware so I'm constantly either fixing things I broke, or trying to improve stuff.

Anyway, at least you have the detent issue down, that's pretty much the first issue w/ the MR2. I myself think Kingman is starting to get rid of the MR2's problems. My MR2 came w/ a black detent, which is the correct detent. I've ran 1000 shots past it so far. THe orange detent that earlier MR2s came with are the faulty ones that break quickly.

It still doesn't make a whole lot of sense about the MR2, I've got all kinds of strange issues with mine. Double feeding, odd sounds when I fire it, chopping, and regular recocking issues. I have a hopper that feeds 17-19BPS (the Ricochet Apache) so I will attempt to disable the ACS mechanism, and hopefully it will help me out. What a mess.

Or, if AlamoCityPB releases MR2 bolts, perhaps they will have one with o-rings on it, which may be a solution, because it would help blowback alot (possibly solve recocking issues? Not sure)
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  #5  
Old 06-10-2006, 12:28 PM
spc_graves spc_graves is offline
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Default Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

the recock as far as Ive been told is the ACS. if it starts to chop or whatever it decocks itself. I dont know if that is true or what I do know that I can burst a bit then it decocks. which when im in a firefight. That sucks.
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  #6  
Old 06-10-2006, 01:18 PM
spc_graves spc_graves is offline
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Exclamation Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

Update!

Ok here is the skinny, I got home from work today, My bolt had been compressed for 4 days now to properly relax the metal and work the spring in. I have also put a 20oz CO2 through the gun with a rag jammed down the feed area and front of the gun to let the bolt cycle over 500 times. The black detent has been trimmed and treated to make it softer. (naturally im confident that I am now sitting pretty)

Now Though I did not stop breaking balls It did slow way way way down. out of my backman hopper I broke probably 15 balls. Not to bad. and this time they didnt chop so bad that it mucked up the entire hopper and gun with paint and ball shell. but they still broke.

I am convinced that it is just the gun. Perhaps there is something in its configuration that is doing it. Now I am going to take an MR1 and put the Rocker Trigger/ACS bolt package in it and see if it has the same issues as the MR2 or if it functions how it is supposed to. If this works then my theory that it is the MR2 itself will be pretty much confirmed. This sucks seeing as I love the Marker. Its looks, Feel, Weight, Durability etc are awesome. A lack of accessories sucks but I am sure that will change in the future.

I have never seen a spyder have trouble like this, wait I take that back the E99 was horrible about paint breakage too. But the rest of the Kingman line I have always found to be reliable, affordable, and highly competetive markers for new to veteran paintballers. So i dont know what is up with the MR2

I am going to try one other thing, I am going to have a bolt made out of aluminum with o-rings and see if that will help out.

Oh im also gonna lock out the ACS and see if that does the trick. So I guess I will be trying two more things.!

Oh one other thing, its common for a paint break to severely screw up your accuracy, but jesus man, one ball breaks in this thing and you couldnt hit the broadside of an elephants butt at ten feet with it. Which brings me to something else im going to try... RainX in the barrel

Ill let everyone know what I come up with.
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  #7  
Old 06-10-2006, 07:32 PM
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new_Faction64 new_Faction64 is offline
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Default Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by spc_graves
Update!

Ok here is the skinny, I got home from work today, My bolt had been compressed for 4 days now to properly relax the metal and work the spring in. I have also put a 20oz CO2 through the gun with a rag jammed down the feed area and front of the gun to let the bolt cycle over 500 times. The black detent has been trimmed and treated to make it softer. (naturally im confident that I am now sitting pretty)

Now Though I did not stop breaking balls It did slow way way way down. out of my backman hopper I broke probably 15 balls. Not to bad. and this time they didnt chop so bad that it mucked up the entire hopper and gun with paint and ball shell. but they still broke.

I am convinced that it is just the gun. Perhaps there is something in its configuration that is doing it. Now I am going to take an MR1 and put the Rocker Trigger/ACS bolt package in it and see if it has the same issues as the MR2 or if it functions how it is supposed to. If this works then my theory that it is the MR2 itself will be pretty much confirmed. This sucks seeing as I love the Marker. Its looks, Feel, Weight, Durability etc are awesome. A lack of accessories sucks but I am sure that will change in the future.

I have never seen a spyder have trouble like this, wait I take that back the E99 was horrible about paint breakage too. But the rest of the Kingman line I have always found to be reliable, affordable, and highly competetive markers for new to veteran paintballers. So i dont know what is up with the MR2

I am going to try one other thing, I am going to have a bolt made out of aluminum with o-rings and see if that will help out.

Oh im also gonna lock out the ACS and see if that does the trick. So I guess I will be trying two more things.!

Oh one other thing, its common for a paint break to severely screw up your accuracy, but jesus man, one ball breaks in this thing and you couldnt hit the broadside of an elephants butt at ten feet with it. Which brings me to something else im going to try... RainX in the barrel

Ill let everyone know what I come up with.
Unfortunately there are no ACS bolts for the MR1 right now, so thought I'd let you know about that (we've asked someone here on the forums about it)

Another solution, sorta, to the barrel breaks could be the Ceramic barrel line by J&J Performance Barrels..I have one and I can keep shooting through the paint (self cleans....sorta), it works, but accuracy goes down the drain after the ball gets a certain distance (curves VERY badly after there's a barrel break, but will still shoot)
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2006, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

Well I have an MR2 and I don't brake paint? What chopping that's was just in the beggining? Maybe the velocity is to high?

Anyway I use an standard egg and it works great but I can hear that the ACS works very hard. But I don't get chops. I get some ballbreak sometimes but that is because I use the cheapest balls on earth!
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2006, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

i am a little confused right now. so, the first MR2s were really bad with chopping (like the one that SPC_graves got) but the new lines are working fine (like NexoN's) and where can i see these MR3 pictures. i'm curious.
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  #10  
Old 06-14-2006, 08:57 AM
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new_Faction64 new_Faction64 is offline
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Default Re: MR2 Chopping Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyderFan
i am a little confused right now. so, the first MR2s were really bad with chopping (like the one that SPC_graves got) but the new lines are working fine (like NexoN's) and where can i see these MR3 pictures. i'm curious.
I'm not so sure of that, I bought my MR2 in beginning of June, it came with black ball detents (meaning it's newer line) but I'm still getting problems
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