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  #1691  
Old 10-30-2011, 08:45 PM
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bigred76 bigred76 is offline
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Default Re: Soc Gdt

I don't use FF, I use Chrome exclusively. It syncs all my encrypted data between my laptop, my fiancee's laptop, my desktop, and the Portable Chrome I have on a USB stick for when I have access to none. Doc, the X4 925 is a 2.8ghz clock, whereas the 965 BE is a 3.4ghz clock. I could always do with just a bit more out of my CPU, and OC'ing to 3.2ghz or upgrading to a 965 like yours would do it just right. I'm spending my money on other things currently (guns, primarily), otherwise it'd have been done months ago... Scratch that, just checked NewEgg and the AMD FX4170 is looking like what I want next, depending on price. I don't care for the extra cores since Windows won't be able to use them, and at 4.2ghz core clock with a boost to 4.3ghz... omfg.

I have my desktop inside a cabinet because that's where it'd fit. Liquid cooling of the CPU coupled with only a little air flow make it work just fine. When I start power using, I open up the cabinet and let it get as much fresh air as the 200mm front fan can intake.


I have to agree, Marv. Linux programs are the absolute best. Free, AND they work 99.99% of the time like they're supposed to. I never could wrap my head around Fedora for some reason, and never had the time to figure it out. The package installers are what I hang at primarily. I've used Ubuntu for many years now and it works for me. Gentoo... yer just nuts with that one. File-grouping tool... sounds interesting. I haven't heard of that before, though, lmao.
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  #1692  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: Soc Gdt

Haha, you just mistook me for Marv.

From a security standpoint, Chrome/ium is better. I has less memory leaks, it uses less memory and has less vulnerabilities. I can't use it everyday though because all it has is Incognito/Save until deleted for history,cookies,cache. For me, I can't take the All-or-nothing route unless it's a public PC. I enjoy cookies and cache (aside from in a KDE environment, where your passwords are all saved easily) but I can't stand history. There's no reason to keep history beyond a session, and Chrome won't let me JUST turn that off without Incognito. In addition to this, firebug is orders of magnitude better than chrome's web developer kit. My beef with firefox in Mint is that the Repo copy has binary modifications that disallow settings and IMO cripple google to be this 2005-looking google with some stupid mint theme.

I'm looking forward to gaming on Linux for the very reason of working utilities. I can't wait until the drivers start working the way they should (nVidia open source ones are rapidly on their way -- I'd give it no more than 2 years at this rate). I don't have much of a beef with steam as it's the best DRM/download manager in existence right now -- and does well as a centralized platform. But if games make it to linux, expect a big boom to be integrating them with Linux package management systems and implementing the DRM via key signing on the repo. Steam exists because Windows doesn't have good support for 3rd party, trusted repositories. I could see common-channel XMPP/IRC mixed with this completely obsoleting steam aside from the unified store.

As far as Gentoo goes, I'm interested in their package management (emerge/portage) and it's ebuild system. They use Python and are by far one of the most intuitive source-building methods in existence. I'd like to remix this with YUM, rysnc, and Mercurial and borrow some ideas from Pacman (Arch Linux) to make a good binary/source package manager for RPM. I probably won't even take anything from Apt -- it has terrible console output and really isn't much different from YUM. Apt isn't "UNIX-y" enough IMO. One thing fedora does need is a GUI program that caches the freaking repositories. It feels like every time I open the GUI package manager it takes ages, when that's the GUI's fault, not YUM or RPM's.

As far as file grouping goes -- think of it like G+ (which ironically is based on UNIX user groups). A file can be part of many groups too, but you don't get a lot of functionality out of that. The functionality comes from sort groups, similar to how friends and circles work in G+. The best example I can think of is taking a table -- perhaps something like an iTunes library of songs and applying a graph transform to those files. You enter a directory and you might find groups like "by genre" or "by artist". No iTunes display is necessary because you can just look in a folder for the music. iTunes does this behind the scenes with a relational database, but filesystems can often be much faster for real files -- removing this feature from the program and implementing it seperately allows for cross-program support and better performance patching. Essentially the grouping program will take a directory A, apply group transforms to its contents into a new directory B, then manage the filesystem links to those files based on the groups that the files are in.
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  #1693  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Soc Gdt

Ya man, Linux programs are amazing!
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  #1694  
Old 10-31-2011, 01:12 PM
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durrell durrell is offline
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I disagree on Linux programs. Linux distros have come a long way, but almost all distros still lack the polish that both W7 and OS X provide. I can honestly say at this point, I'm just as happy running W7 as I am OS X. My setup right now is the 965BE based desktop I mentioned earlier at home and then a new Macbook Air with the i5 at work. This setup works well for me. I will say it is possible to have a Linux-based machine that works great and is just as stable as a Win or Mac machine. However, it's the packages that break something that was working or the distribution upgrades that completely break your entire install that really keep me on proprietary OS's.

Claus, on the subject of Gentoo, I ran it numerous times a few years ago and always ended up going back to a more polished distro. Ubuntu has been my long standing favorite, and it's for that reason I have standardized all of our Linux servers at work on 10.04 LTS. I highly recommend at least trying Gentoo, if for nothing else to but to learn the innerworkings of Linux. It's rather challenging to get Gentoo installed, configured, and working, but that's part of the fun. I suppose the beauty of Gentoo is that it is literally *exactly* what you want it to be. You know every package on your machine. It gets old maintaining it after awhile, though.
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  #1695  
Old 10-31-2011, 02:23 PM
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Ubuntu is going downhill. They're making dumb decisions to fragment developer camps rather than contribute, it won't last. Unity is a major mistake, and on top of it, you've got its lack of configuration. I've noticed more and more repository mistakes... it's just not looking good for them.

While I still disagree, I think that you misunderstand my comment on Linux programs. I'm talking about utilities and features that power users have. Git and Mercurial integration are still lacking for power users in Windows, you have to install a UNIX base just to make use of them well (Git Bash or cygwin). Take a look at JACK or Google App engine, Hg-git, hgsubversion, mongodb. They're all packaged by Distro maintainers and effectively way more a part of the OS than any Windows or OSX downloadable alternative. I dare you to find me anything with the functionality of JACK in Windows or OSX then compare how integrated with the OS it is and how much it cost you.

Windows not being a POSIX-compliant OS takes a huge toll on its capabilities. Almost anything that I can imagine in software, there's a utility in Linux, and with most distributions, they're free, they work, and they're at my fingertips with a repository-based updater. Windows has fragmented updater, download locations and reliability. This is one of the major reasons why Linux programs "work". I'm not talking about whether the GUI is easy to understand or is even available to you -- I'm talking about the ability to take your existing OS and do a task with it without having to go to an untrusted source and download their utility and potentially pay them. I can name a dozen tasks that I can't do in OSX and Windows in under a minute. I'd be hard pressed to honestly say the same about Linux.

Now, with this "Lack of Polish" I somewhat agree, although from a Windows standpoint I find it funny because 3rd party Windows apps are coded by a bunch of code-monkeys that make laughable UI decisions. With Windows you do have a widget set that is across all applications, but it's not like that's even enforced. Look at every mouse driver you've ever gotten or steam for example. That lacks polish. Fedora + Gnome 3 has the most polish I've ever experienced in Linux, with almost all of my necessary applications following the Gnome standard. KDE is no POS either -- many of their apps interact very well. I haven't had enough hands on time with OSX but its hardly fair to compare the "polish" of an OS that seems to cost almost $500 (laugh at yourself now if you honestly think anyone could sell you the same hardware at $1900 and get away with it). Each Linux distro has its own strengths and weaknesses, and while I can't currently say one has more overall polish than OSX, I can say that there is a large set of them that are more capable and more polished in their own way, Gentoo being one of them. (segue)

As far as Gentoo goes, it's only really been time consuming. I have it paused in my virtualbox and I've slowly been installing it in pockets of about 10 minutes at a time . I like their rolling release model, and I see this as being one of the biggest strengths that all Linux distros could potentially have over Windows/OSX. I'd like to figure out how they could make use of it though.
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  #1696  
Old 10-31-2011, 06:40 PM
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I think the major problem with Ubuntu is rather than innovating, they're re-creating. Unity is a blatant ripoff of Finder and they did a terrible job of it.

I completely agree on Linux being more friendly to the power-user in a lot of ways. I so much prefer BASH to DOS and the fact that I can have a web server or anything for that matter running in a matter of seconds via a package repository. I am a huge Linux fan, and would love to see it flourish. However, as much as I enjoy it, it is just too aggravating to USE it on a daily basis. It's little things that lead to big problems: Evolution lacks true Exchange support, Flash can be buggy (I wish Flash would die in a fire, but for now it's necessary), and as I said earlier..updates can blow other things up.

I'd be curious to hear what your dozen tasks that you can't do in Windows or OS X are, particularly OS X since it's *nix based, but I have a feeling you're going to be talking about some pretty fringe stuff like Google App engine or something like that. I don't feel that should be part of the discussion, as that's really something that doesn't affect the vast majority of users.

KDE is a nice desktop environment, but I've always found it to be far too bloated for what I really need. It's essentially trying to be Windows, and I don't want that. I don't want Linux to be OS X or Windows. I completely understand and agree that it's not fair to compare OS X to Linux, but it's really the same as comparing iOS to Android. You're paying for the polish. To some that's not important, and to some it is. To me, it's important but it's not important enough to justify the cost difference. I only have a Macbook Air because my job pays for whatever computer I want. There's a reason my personal computer is built from scratch, and that's because I refuse to pay a substantially higher price for a brand name and an hour's worth of work in putting the system together.

I think we mostly agree, but I think you're still in a place I was probably 4 years ago. I've been a sys admin for 3 years now, so having a stable, polished system to come home to is rather important to me. I don't want to be solving the same problems at home that I have to deal with at work.

It's funny you mention Fedora and GNOME3 being polished. I have been meaning to try them in VirtualBox, but keep forgetting. Going to do that now.
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  #1697  
Old 10-31-2011, 07:35 PM
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Definitely. They have motivated a few good changes (wayland, lightdm) but their lack of documentation on these efforts almost makes it not worth it. Not to mention: Bzr/Launchpad is atrocious.

I don't use evolution, I'm a thunderbird guy. Flash actually has a Linux 64-bit specific edition recently... but when is it not buggy? It works as expected 99% of the time for me.

For OSX/Windows tasks I'm talking solely about Power-user activities. No plug and play stuff. For the sake of argument, I'll list the issues that I've come across in Windows.

* Multiple audio inputs, channels and outputs that are easy to manage. Windows Audio manager just doesn't cut it. In Linux, I'd use JACK and I can make digital wires between devices, channels and programs. I can make the audio input for mumble/skype a be the output from a digital audio filter program. I can output audio from mumble over headphones to one channel of my 7.1 headphones and play music over the others, or even over the speakers. OSX may have this because they market to music people pretty heavily, but I doubt it has the stock functionality of JACK without buying a whole suite. Best part? JACK is a daemon.

* Change the tiling scheme for Windows. I could use AwesomeWM, wmii, Xmonad, compiz to name a few. Never been easier to tweak how my windows take up the space on my screen properly.

* Visually modify my login animation, login screen etc to my heart's extent. Windows has some $40 software and some 1-time use utilities to do this, but not nearly to the extent of Plymouth and LightDM. Here's a lightDM login screen with doom sprites to demonstrate it's ability: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/09/3...-pretty-slick/

* BASH vs DOS/CMD/Powershell. Ugh. I can't even tell you how many times it ignores path, pwd or just can't find programs and commands. It's almost impossible to be a windows python developer without the use of IDLE (god forbid) or an IDE. Obviously windows exclusive.

* MPD vs *. if you're not using MPD, you don't know what you're missing. It stands for Music Player Daemon, and I've got one set up with a simple web interface to stream music through a web interface to wherever I am. Forget pandora, I can log in to any smart device and play my own library remotely, on multiple channels.

* Software RAID, LVM, LUKS. It's not really fair to Linux that these are all one, but Truecrypt has (almost) nothing on LUKS, and frankly the software raid and virtual volumes on Windows is laughable.

* Block/Meta Journaling file systems, hard deletion and data recovery. I run a lot of hard-deletion data recovery for people. It's never been trivially easy except on Linux, Block Journaling seems to make tools for recovery faster and better than metadata-only journaling does.

I rarely use KDE. I'd likely own an air(probably dualbooted) or IBM thinkpad if my job paid for a laptop. Tablet would be thinkpad tab or iPad, but I'm an android fan regardless of cost. As far as jobs go I'm looking to get into software/hardware job from the standpoint that I rarely build hardware but frequently interact directly with it. Kernel development, debugging, compilers and assembly turn me on. I have my parents set up on a REMOTE Debian machine, so I understand the importance of having some stability. It seems like all of their problems were superficial and "growing pains", because as soon as I had it setup for SSH, they had no more issues.

Fedora is awesome now. Gnome3 works pretty well. At first it bothered me, but I realized it wasn't the same annoyances I had with Unity. I genuinely hate Unity, I just wasn't used to Gnome3. It changes workflow a bit, but on a laptop or single screen setup it seems to work well. You will almost definitely need to install VBox Guest additions to get it to work normally though. I don't recall if my VBox Fedora gave me issues when attempting to install Guest additions. I know there was one distro that did.
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  #1698  
Old 10-31-2011, 07:48 PM
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Just tried to install Fedora in VBox and got the expected GNOME3 failed to load. Figured I needed additions, so I installed to HDD and then when it rebooted it said No OS found. Oh well. I'll install it on my actual machine.

I don't like Evolution either, but that was just an example. Sure, I can set up IMAP and get a lot of the same functionality, But it's not as easy as having true Exchange sync, which is possible without any proprietary tools by just using the same OWA connector that Apple Mail uses. I can't understand why no Linux devs have taken advantage of this yet.

I can agree with the Linux plusses on everything except the audio inputs and tiling:

-OS X handles professional grade audio extremely well via Core audio. Many would argue it handles it better than Linux or Windows ever dreamed of being able to. I can't say one way or the other, as although I am involved with professional audio, I've never had to use or configure a DAW.

-Windows handles tiling really nicely, I think. Not quite as nicely as Awesome or some of the dedicated tiling window managers in Linux, but nice enough for most. There are free utilities for OS X that I've personally used that basically allow different window positions to be mapped to certain keys..just like awesome.

I'm gonna give Fedora a try and see if I like it. The UI looks promising, but YUM has the potential to really annoy me.
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  #1699  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:54 PM
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AH! that was the issue that I had.... I had to manually partition fedora for virtualbox. Grub freaks out something awful with the default IIRC. I'll check my partition scheme and get back to you.

I figured OSX had a strong possibility of having improved audio handling, I just wasn't sure. I like (when reading) to hear that Core uses OpenAL, but TBH, I haven't run into a single shortcoming with JACK yet... I've done some crazy stuff. I've got 5.1 going out a fiber optic line and 7.1 in headphones along with 2 stereo jacks (and then 8 on the back) and I've tried doing some insane outputs, loops and channel swapping and never come up with something I couldn't do (albeit with a little hacking/command construction). I hacked up some crazy concoction with each channel of the 5.1 outputting a different program channel and then looping them back to microphone input and then switching which one output over mumble and it seemed to all work. It was pretty nice.

Compiz does some pretty standard tiling, but Xmonad is really the tiling WM to look at. It made me learn Haskell (which is a mixed bag) but you really have no limit to tiling control... and it does it for you, all the time (or only half the time if you code it to do so -- very powerful)

Yum has come a long way. I used to hate it too (which I think was a part of RPM dependency hell, being a noob and its early age), but after Pacman I couldn't go back to the filthy command line use for Apt (ugh does it have the most awful output or what?). Yum is much cleaner and a lot faster than I remember it being. The GUI's for YUM still don't cut it compared to synaptic, but I hear there's a Yum version of that around that I might try to use. Terminal output for Yum beats Apt without trying... it's much nicer. I still haven't taken sides between Pacman and YUM though.
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  #1700  
Old 11-01-2011, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: Soc Gdt

Which Terminal output are you talking about for Apt? It has never bothered me. I suppose it's because I haven't used anything else in so long.
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