Spyder Forums  

Go Back   Spyder Forums > General Spyder Discussion > General Spyder Forum
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:42 AM
Paintball_Freak's Avatar
Paintball_Freak Paintball_Freak is offline
Paintball Forever !!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa, Johannesburg
Posts: 39
Default Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

Thanks to PAG (from south africa) who's registered at Paintball Africa for this. This is all his info that he has collected and i thought it was so important i had to share it. maybe it could become a sticky.

This info is from different web pages and manufactures that I have gather over the years since 1986 when I started playing PB. I do have a lot and this is just a small part of the information so I hope it help when you make a chioce on which barrel and paintballs to buy.

What affects the range of a paintball?
Newton’s First Law states a couple very important things
1. An object at rest will remain at rest unless some unbalanced force causes it to do otherwise.here is this funny little thing in physics class that you might remember from high school called Newton’s First Law. Newton’s First Law is also called the law of INERTIA. Inertia is basically the force that it takes to move an object, and momentum is the force that the object carries with it as it is moving. You could also think of momentum as the force required to slow an object down as it travels. You will see how this applies to the range of a paintball in a second. I am not a physics major but I am trying to make a simple point.
2. An object in motion will continue in motion in a straight line with constant VELOCITY unless some unbalanced force causes it to do otherwise.If there were no wind resistance or gravity (as in outer space), an object would continue on a straight path with virtually unchanging velocity.
So INERTIA is equal to MASS x VELOCITY.
there two things that will determine how much inertia the paintball has when it leaves the barrel.
Velocity of the ball
Weight of the ball
Trajectory (arc of the ball's flight)
Some people argue: "my gun has a flatter trajectory than gun A". This is another one of the great misunderstanding among paintball players. There is no such thing as one gun having a different trajectory over another. The proof to my argument rests again with Newton's Laws of physics. This application of physics is called "projectile motion". Basically, the factors that control trajectory are gravity, mass, velocity, and angle of the projectile as it leaves the gun. A projectile shot at 45 degrees will travel the greatest distance possible. An angle greater than 45 degrees will cause the ball to go
higher, but it will hit the ground closer to its starting point. A projectile shot at less than 45 degrees will hit the ground faster due to acceleration of gravity, causing it to not travel as far. Gravity is a constant, and the acceleration due to gravity (32.2 ft/s/s) is the same for all projectiles.
A ball of heavier mass will go farther, remember? So weight of the ball once again plays a part in the flight of the ball, controlling how high and how far the ball will go.
Now lets talk about other factors that affect VELOCITY, since the weight of the ball will not change very much in one case, but the velocity from ball to ball can vary greatly.
Barrel length affects velocity fluctuations
The way that a ball bounces around the barrel or drags against the inside of the barrel can have a profound effect on velocity fluctuations. Ball will touch the sides unevenly sometimes and drag will slow the ball down. The longer the barrel is, the more pronounced these fluctuations can be.
For this reason, a shorter barrel will have less velocity fluctuation than a longer one.
Balls that are out of round will also vary in velocity both because they drag differently in the barrel, and because they have unequal air resistance as they fly.

Vented Barrels Another theory by makers of drilled barrels is that the holes somehow equalize pressure in front and behind the ball, making the ball regain shape as it goes down the barrel. The claim is that the ball is more round making it travel farther in the air. What the holes actually do is release the pressure behind the ball, causing it to stop accelerating. They also make the gun quieter. That is all they do.
Airgun Designs used computers to measure the acceleration and power pulse behind paintballs as they travel down the barrel. What they found is that in most paintball guns the ball accelerates in the FIRST 8-12 INCHES OF THE BARREL ONLY. This means that if a barrel is any longer than say 12", it is only slowing the ball down in the barrel. Barrels that are drilled usually only have about 6" of solid barrel. This means their EFFECTIVE LENGTH is only six inches. Shorter barrels have less distance to accelerate in, so the ball sees more force to go 300fps. Once the ball goes past the holes, the air pressure behind the ball is GONE. The ball immediately stops accelerating.

ACCURACY
Barrel choice usually does not affect accuracy
A paintball does not care what barrel it came from or how slippery the inside of the barrel was after it has left the gun. Accuracy is affected mainly by what happens to the ball AFTER IT HAS LEFT THE GUN. If the ball has paint on it or is dirty, the paint will alter the flight of the ball due to irregularities in the flow of air over the surface of the ball. If wind pushes on the ball, it forces it off course and it won’t go where you thought it would. If the seam is not formed well, or the ball is out of round, the air will not flow evenly over the ball and it will go off course.
Here is a list of possibly factors (in no particular order) that will affect your accuracy:
Velocity too high ( over 280 can cause curving)
Paint in the barrel
Dirt in the barrel
Oil in the barrel (after lubing gun)
Dirty paintballs
Out of round paintballs
Cracked paintball
Uneven fill mixture (old paint)
Dimpled paintballs
Wind
Humidity
Barrel bore too tight
Bent barrel

Ball spin does not affect accuracy?
The problem with spinning a paintball is that it is not solid like a lead bullet. You can get the shell of a paintball to spin, but the fill may not spin in sync. Ever spin a glass of water that has ice in it? The ice stays in one place. The fill of the paintball acts the same way, and after the ball leaves the barrel, the ball quickly stops spinning. Tom Kaye suggests that spin in not a factor below 3,000 rpm. I'm not sure I agree with him, but it is important to note that balls that curve badly after going through a dirty barrel do do because the paint/dirt that is on the ball does not allow the air to flow evenly over teh surface of the ball. Aerodynamics of a round ball are not so great because of the turbulence behind the ball, and when you shoot a ball through a dirty barrel it only makes things worse. Any variation in the shape of the ball will make it go off course. Many players assume that a dirty barrel causes a ball to spin, which makes it curve. The paint residue on the surface fo the ball has a more profound effect on the curve of the ball.

Turbulence affects the accuracy more than any other factor
There is a reason why the army does not shoot musket balls anymore. They aren’t accurate. The shape of a sphere going through the air causes turbulence behind the ball that can send it off course very easily. So basically the way that the air travels over the ball will affect it’s flight. Combine that with a paintballs low weight, and you get a projectile that is ill suited for long distance accuracy, and is easily thrown off course. Perhaps this is why so many players are obsessed with the "perceived" accuracy performance of their guns.

The worlds most accurate barrel
Hate to disappoint you, but there is no such thing. What you want to look for in a barrel is one that loads the ball gently, has an effective length of 8-12 inches, doesn't double feed, and has a bore that best matches the balls you are using. When I get mail asking "what do you think of barrel XYZ", I just laugh. There is no one barrel that is the best. If you play in competitions or travel from field to field, you are going to be forced at one time or another to use field paint. You cannot guarantee the balls are round, or that the fill is mixed evenly, or that the shell is not dimpled, or that the size of the ball will match you one "favorite" barrel. My advice on barrel selection is to get a few barrels that seem to perform well with the paint brand and color that you use most often. Having barrels of varying inside diameters will come in handy when the tournament paint doesn't work in your favorite barrel.

The worlds most accurate paintball
Hate to disappoint you, AGAIN, but there is no such thing. EVERY brand of paintball has good and bad batches. They vary slightly in size, weight, and shape. The best way to test a paintball is to drop them from about 4 feet high onto a concrete floor. If more than one or two breaks out of 20, then the shell is too brittle. You can fix this if you are stuck with brittle tourney paint by placing an open glass of water inside the case bag and sealing it up. Leave it for a couple of hours.

Do heavier balls go straighter.
They can, but paintballs are not always round. Spin, weight and shape of the ball. Use heavier balls and they should go straighter, further, and they should hit the target harder.

WHICH BARRELS ARE THE MOST ACCURATE
Now you know the truth. The answer is none. There is not one barrel that will work the best with ALL paintball brands, ALL paintball guns, and ALL paintball colors, in ALL types of weather. There are just too many variable for one to be the best.
__________________
Spyder Pilot ACS
12oz CO2 (soon to be 48ci/3000psi tank)
Gravity Hopper (soon to be VL VLocity Jnr)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-12-2007, 04:12 PM
Elfmaze Elfmaze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 245
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

well then, you just take all the magic outa it don't ya?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-12-2007, 05:00 PM
VS2 King's Avatar
VS2 King VS2 King is offline
The King Of All VS2's
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 617
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

Not To Rain On Your Physics Parade But Seriously Who Really Cares About All This Stuff. All We Pb'ers Really care About Is If Our Guns Are The Sickest Out There, and If We Can Light People Up On The Field With Our Guns. No One Thinks About What Laws Apply. I Think People Got Into This Sport Because They Hated Physics. NOW WHOS WITH ME!!!!!!! lol
__________________
SOC FeedBack +11/-0
PbNation Feedback +6/-0

[FS/T]Core2Quad Rig

*!VS2 Owners Group!*

From PbNation
"This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between searches. Please try again in 32 seconds."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-12-2007, 05:28 PM
pbfreak3221's Avatar
pbfreak3221 pbfreak3221 is offline
In Heaven with the Goodie Goodies dressed in white
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: beantown
Posts: 1,489
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

I'm not... If you already have an adequate, go ahead and upgrade it. And one of the most important upgrades could be a barrel. This is good info, also look at ottersccustoms.com for more info.
__________________
It always seems impossible until its done.
- Nelson Mandela
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-15-2007, 07:57 AM
Paintball_Freak's Avatar
Paintball_Freak Paintball_Freak is offline
Paintball Forever !!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa, Johannesburg
Posts: 39
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

VS2 King, this is info that shows how barrels work what influences them etc, the physics is there to prove it.

And, i quote you said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by VS2 King
All We Pb'ers Really care About Is If Our Guns Are The Sickest Out There, and If We Can Light People Up On The Field With Our Guns.
If thats the case, why do you have a VS2. If you care about only that, you would have an EGO or a Timmy, DM7, Indian Creek etc.

Ballers play cause they love the sport, not to compare who has better.
__________________
Spyder Pilot ACS
12oz CO2 (soon to be 48ci/3000psi tank)
Gravity Hopper (soon to be VL VLocity Jnr)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-15-2007, 08:13 AM
VS2 King's Avatar
VS2 King VS2 King is offline
The King Of All VS2's
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 617
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

yes i know i would have had a better gun but im not one of those kids or adults that have all this money to get a ego or angle. im only 14 and i only get money every couple months and its only about 20 bucks so i cant really buy anything. and im too young for a job so im screwed there. and yes we mostly do play for fun and we just love it but there is alot of competition in paintballing.
__________________
SOC FeedBack +11/-0
PbNation Feedback +6/-0

[FS/T]Core2Quad Rig

*!VS2 Owners Group!*

From PbNation
"This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between searches. Please try again in 32 seconds."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-17-2007, 08:42 AM
Paintball_Freak's Avatar
Paintball_Freak Paintball_Freak is offline
Paintball Forever !!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa, Johannesburg
Posts: 39
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

well thats it. I know most ppl dont have money for ego's. But as i said its not about having the best marker its about having fun, painting friends, and making new ones.



Unless your pro then its different. Then you get endorsed, have the coolest marker, play for an income (basically means its work) and you have fun, painting friends, and making new ones.
__________________
Spyder Pilot ACS
12oz CO2 (soon to be 48ci/3000psi tank)
Gravity Hopper (soon to be VL VLocity Jnr)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-17-2007, 09:10 AM
Tito=PBL's Avatar
Tito=PBL Tito=PBL is offline
<== that is my baby
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: east coast
Posts: 351
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

Thanks for the info. it was very interesting to read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintball_Freak
Ball spin does not affect accuracy?
The problem with spinning a paintball is that it is not solid like a lead bullet. You can get the shell of a paintball to spin, but the fill may not spin in sync. Ever spin a glass of water that has ice in it? The ice stays in one place. The fill of the paintball acts the same way, and after the ball leaves the barrel, the ball quickly stops spinning. Tom Kaye suggests that spin in not a factor below 3,000 rpm. I'm not sure I agree with him, but it is important to note that balls that curve badly after going through a dirty barrel do do because the paint/dirt that is on the ball does not allow the air to flow evenly over teh surface of the ball. Aerodynamics of a round ball are not so great because of the turbulence behind the ball, and when you shoot a ball through a dirty barrel it only makes things worse. Any variation in the shape of the ball will make it go off course. Many players assume that a dirty barrel causes a ball to spin, which makes it curve. The paint residue on the surface fo the ball has a more profound effect on the curve of the ball.
it says that spin does not affect the flight of the ball.
how does the flatline barrel work then?
__________________
Hi
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-17-2007, 12:13 PM
Paintball_Freak's Avatar
Paintball_Freak Paintball_Freak is offline
Paintball Forever !!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South Africa, Johannesburg
Posts: 39
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

hey as i said i only borrowed this info as i think it is very usefull.

But ill find out
__________________
Spyder Pilot ACS
12oz CO2 (soon to be 48ci/3000psi tank)
Gravity Hopper (soon to be VL VLocity Jnr)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-17-2007, 01:49 PM
Taillo Taillo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 262
Default Re: Barrel Info for Potential Buyers

In airsoft, there is the hop-up system that effectively spins de ball to improve range, it does not affect accuracy, it works this way: when you bb start loosing speed , it loose altitude and begins to go downs, thats where the hop-up comes in effect. the bb will start going up again for another distance, and then fall down because it has depleted its speed.

This hop-up effect is impressive when you see it in action because it really works and you can also buy specific trajectory hop-up systems to fit your needs. in example you can have a hop-up that quickly lower the trajectory of your bbs and then it keeps a low altitude until it slows down then go up. There is also systems that immediately kick your bbs upward only to improve range.

Observations: my mr1 did shoot to the right. i did not know why it was so off center. but i found out that the rubber detent is on the right of the gun so it gives the paintball a spin, exactly like the hop-up system. Changing barrel for a riffled one suppressed the spin on the ball and now it is on center. This made me think a hop-up system would work on paintball. But there is already the flatline barrel to make the same effect on the ball, does it works for real?

You gotta look into another thing also: Golf
The spn of the ball is greatly used by players. it is important to understand the spin in golf. The golf ball has little holes on all its surface to improve aerodynamics. Those holes also helps the spin to get a grip on the air. A comparison to the paintball is the stitche that hold both cup of a paintball, it create a little deformation that gives the ball traction when it spins. Its the same in baseball, to throw a curveball , the pitcher has to give a spin on the ball, and the stitches helps the ball to get a grip on the air. I dont think the spin of a baseball is higher than 3000 rpms.

Last edited by Taillo : 07-17-2007 at 11:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:00 PM.