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  #1  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:25 AM
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Default Official Politics Thread

RULES!


There will be no other politics threads
if you do create another one, (anywhere even the polls) it will result in a vacation.
No flaming this will also result in a vacation
No trolling... I think you know what will happen...
use your heads
Be useful (oh my bad this is just for Chris...)


This thread is here so you guys can have a civil convo about what is going on in our world, our nation, hell your home town. Make it fun, no one is wrong, no one is right, just a simple convo about the issues we all face everyday. Cant be too hard right?

If this doesn't work out it will go, so I suggest you all keep it civil.
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

War = costly
land gained from war = cheaper oil up front
oil companys get cheap oil = they jack the price up
gas prices up = angry people




Ah hell I dont even know what that was. Kinda zoned out let my fingers talk. Plus a start for the thread.
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2007, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

We need to pull out of Iraq.

I'm convinced that the only person dumber than George Bush and Richard Cheney is Hillary Clinton.

I have no idea who I'm voting for next year because every one of the candidates sucks big ones.

So there you go, a few topics to discuss..lol.
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  #4  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

I'm pretty fed up with American politics. There isn't a single person running that I feel could do a good job in the White House. It's become a "My checkbook is thicker than your check book" race, and with Hillary and Obama, I feel it's turning into a "Vote for the first woman," or "Vote for the cutest," candidate (you thought I was going to say black, didn't you? LOL!)

I actually here people saying they will vote for Obama because he's cute. Seriously! It makes me sick, actually. As far as Bush goes, I still think that in the future, we'll be thinking a different way about him - he's not that bad, considering some of the things that people forget to bring up with other presidents. BTW - did you know that Bush doesn't have the lowest rating in politics history? Guess who does? That's right - CONGRESS!

Vote for me. I have ideas on these things that will work, and I don't care about lobbyists, or other people's feelings. You can't please all the people all the time, so do what you would do to protect your family and yourself, and the rest of the country will fall in place...

Durrell - while I wish we could pull out, I think it'd be a BIG mistake in the long run. Great for now, but bad later on. I mean, HORRIBLY wrong....
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

Hillary Clinton = dystopian. I would vote for Nader if it meant keeping her out of office.

I think we should stay in Iraq, because we did start some problems. I don't necessarily agree with the events leading up to it, but we've pissed off so many people over there that I think we should build our image, and make sure the hard work of our soldiers doesn't go down the crapper.

TRB and I had this discussion over Aim. Schools in the US suck, we need better education for children and that includes media exposure. We aren't making smart children, we're making economically stable children. The kind of people that buy when they are told to, and buy stuff they don't need.
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  #6  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingshadow

Durrell - while I wish we could pull out, I think it'd be a BIG mistake in the long run. Great for now, but bad later on. I mean, HORRIBLY wrong....
For what reason? Not that I disagree, I honestly would like to see your view on why it would be wrong. I mean I don't think we need to just like pick up and leave today, but a timetable would be nice so that the Iraqi government can start to pick up some slack. We can't be their peace keeper forever, we have other things to worry about like Iran, North Korea, and even Venezuela. I'd like to hear your point of view, because from what I remember in the past..you and I normally agree on these things.
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  #7  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

mike huckabee needs to get more publicity.
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  #8  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by viking
As far as Bush goes, I still think that in the future, we'll be thinking a different way about him - he's not that bad, considering some of the things that people forget to bring up with other presidents. BTW - did you know that Bush doesn't have the lowest rating in politics history? Guess who does? That's right - CONGRESS!
i think the fact that congress has done so little is due to the lack of a solid democratic majority, especially in the senate. as to bush's complete disregard for the laws of this country... well, that kind of speaks for itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viking
I don't care about lobbyists, or other people's feelings
that reminds me of hilary's statement the other day. it went something like "i won't stop taking money from interest groups because they represent real people. but i won't listen to them." jon stewart had fun with it. i lol'd.

HDH, i agree completely about the schools. america's schools suck. i used to think we should privatize them, or perhaps do that voucher thing, but i've changed my mind. i don't know how to fix it, but they need to stay public, and the federal government needs to quit regulating it. that'd be a start i think.

btw, mike gravel ftw.
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  #9  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by durrell
For what reason? Not that I disagree, I honestly would like to see your view on why it would be wrong. I mean I don't think we need to just like pick up and leave today, but a timetable would be nice so that the Iraqi government can start to pick up some slack. We can't be their peace keeper forever, we have other things to worry about like Iran, North Korea, and even Venezuela. I'd like to hear your point of view, because from what I remember in the past..you and I normally agree on these things.
No problem! But you asked for it, lol! Get ready for a long one!

I understand what you're asking and I'll try and get it from my mind to the screen here...What I mean is that we've gotten so deeply involved, that it's not in our best interest to leave until it looks like we've accomplished something else besides getting Hussein...

I think that if we leave within the next year without a list of objectives being accomplished, we've failed in the eyes of the world and lost in the eyes of the terrorists. Period - no matter what we've accomplished. By setting a time-table, we're giving the extremists some respite from the day to day smaller things (not that they are small, just not what they could be doing) they are doing - "What, they're leaving in December? We can wait that long!" Not only a break, but a chance to say, "Man, all this work is starting to pay off." They will have won.

Now, what I mean by trouble down the line is that unless we grow a HUGE sack and start using our military MIGHT the way it was intended to do (defending ourselves from foreign invaders and attacks), if we leave with them thinking they've won that part of the Jihad (trust me, they won't think it's over until we're all dead) then they will bring it to us, to our soil, because you and I know we aren't secure from these types of things no matter what they government says. As it is, we have the most powerful force in the world that can't even use it's own firepower to prove it. We're just big talkers anymore...

Here's what I think we should do. Make a list. Period. Maybe 5-6 things. Start with something like - Take control of _________ and help rebuild. Iraq forces to control afterwards. Then, go to the next one - Secure _________ and help rebuild. Iraqi forces will control when finished. So on....whatever we think the country needs. Water, food, playgrounds, schools, whatever. It can all go on the SHORT list.

After we finish our 5-6 things on the list, tell Iraq, "Here's your new country, hope you like it! We're finished, you're in control. Give us a call if you need some advice." THEN get the hell out of there. That way, we've accomplished our goals, not let the terrorists win, and if they DO come back, then it's not on us anymore.

The only plans being given right now is, "Set a deadline. GTFO of Iraq." That's not accomplishing anything except giving us another mark in the loss column and opening us up for attack in the future. BUT it's going to take someone who will tell the lobbyists and congress to shut up and get the hell out. We aren't cops, we aren't friendly anymore. Leave us alone and let us do our job the way we're supposed to do it.

Here's a more down to Earth example. Most teachers try to take care of problems in their classroom on their own. However, our hands are tied - we can't use the tools we know to work, because the school board/administration is afraid of lawsuits and looking bad. BUT, in the meantime, class is crappy because of the disruptions, no actual learning time, etc. So, as a last resort, the student disrupting class is sent to the office, where he/she gets TOLD to straighten up and fly right or else. Now, didn't the teacher just do that themselves? It's all talk, and that student, along with his terrorist friends all know it and don't care anymore.

Now, substitute the American soldier for the teacher, Congress/president/lobbyists for principal and the students with the bad guys in the world... see where I'm going here?

I think that we're all talk. And so does the rest of the world.

tl;dr: I understand what you're asking and I'll try and get it from my mind to the screen here...What I mean is that we've gotten so deeply involved, that it's not in our best interest to leave until it looks like we've accomplished something else besides getting Hussein...

I think that if we leave within the next year without a list of objectives being accomplished, we've failed in the eyes of the world and lost in the eyes of the terrorists. Period - no matter what we've accomplished. By setting a time-table, we're giving the extremists some respite from the day to day smaller things (not that they are small, just not what they could be doing) they are doing - "What, they're leaving in December? We can wait that long!" Not only a break, but a chance to say, "Man, all this work is starting to pay off." They will have won.

Now, what I mean by trouble down the line is that unless we grow a HUGE sack and start using our military MIGHT the way it was intended to do (defending ourselves from foreign invaders and attacks), if we leave with them thinking they've won that part of the Jihad (trust me, they won't think it's over until we're all dead) then they will bring it to us, to our soil, because you and I know we aren't secure from these types of things no matter what they government says. As it is, we have the most powerful force in the world that can't even use it's own firepower to prove it. We're just big talkers anymore...

Here's what I think we should do. Make a list. Period. Maybe 5-6 things. Start with something like - Take control of _________ and help rebuild. Iraq forces to control afterwards. Then, go to the next one - Secure _________ and help rebuild. Iraqi forces will control when finished. So on....whatever we think the country needs. Water, food, playgrounds, schools, whatever. It can all go on the SHORT list.

After we finish our 5-6 things on the list, tell Iraq, "Here's your new country, hope you like it! We're finished, you're in control. Give us a call if you need some advice." THEN get the hell out of there. That way, we've accomplished our goals, not let the terrorists win, and if they DO come back, then it's not on us anymore.

The only plans being given right now is, "Set a deadline. GTFO of Iraq." That's not accomplishing anything except giving us another mark in the loss column and opening us up for attack in the future. BUT it's going to take someone who will tell the lobbyists and congress to shut up and get the hell out. We aren't cops, we aren't friendly anymore. Leave us alone and let us do our job the way we're supposed to do it.

Here's a more down to Earth example. Most teachers try to take care of problems in their classroom on their own. However, our hands are tied - we can't use the tools we know to work, because the school board/administration is afraid of lawsuits and looking bad. BUT, in the meantime, class is crappy because of the disruptions, no actual learning time, etc. So, as a last resort, the student disrupting class is sent to the office, where he/she gets TOLD to straighten up and fly right or else. Now, didn't the teacher just do that themselves? It's all talk, and that student, along with his terrorist friends all know it and don't care anymore.

Now, substitute the American soldier for the teacher, Congress/president/lobbyists for principal and the students with the bad guys in the world... see where I'm going here?

I think that we're all talk. And so does the rest of the world.
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Official Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by durrell
For what reason? Not that I disagree, I honestly would like to see your view on why it would be wrong. I mean I don't think we need to just like pick up and leave today, but a timetable would be nice so that the Iraqi government can start to pick up some slack. We can't be their peace keeper forever, we have other things to worry about like Iran, North Korea, and even Venezuela. I'd like to hear your point of view, because from what I remember in the past..you and I normally agree on these things.
I THINK (correct me if I'm wrong) what vike is saying is that if we leave without eliminating hostility, the hostility will grow back, even more pissed off in the long run. The only real question is, are we removing more hostility than we are making by being in Iraq. If we could prove that things are infact getting worse, it may be wiser to leave, but we've already started the process and from what I can tell, things ARE getting better. Why not just finish the problem and stay a bit longer?
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