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Old 12-28-2005, 06:08 AM
OtterSC's Avatar
OtterSC OtterSC is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Posts: 685
Default Be a safe trader...

Hey all. i have seen one to many horror stories about deals going bad. to those that has had this go bad, i am sorry that you had to experience it.

First off, Kingman will not be held liable for any trades, agreements, and other such transaction between members. Kingman will also not mediate in trades or agreements between members. Simply put, trade at your own risk. Kingman is not responsible in any way.

3rd Party
i suggest that one finds somebody that will do what is called a "third party transaction". what this involves is that you ask a 3rd person to send your money/item(s) to. the person you are doing business with send his money/item(s) to this person. when the 3rd party recieves all items and verifies, they then ship it to the end party. they usually charge a modest fee and possibly shipping. however, that extra amount of funding may be worth it.

i have done it and will gladly do this for anybody.

Making the deal
whether you contact the person via email, personal message, instant message, snail mail, or phone, keep a written log as to when you spoke to them. if it is email or personal message, print those out and store away. IM would be slightly hard to print out. snail mail is easy. if a telephone call was done, make notes as to the date, time, and briefly what was spoken.

always keep the other person in the loop. email them when you shipped. if you have a tracking number, send that.

the information that you have saved about the deal will build a strong case in your favor if and when you contact the authorities. compared to "he said" and "she promised" hear-say. written documents that show date and times is much better.

be clear as to what you are getting and in what time frame. the longer it is before you get something, the less likely you will ever see it.

kind of on the same note, credit cards offer some kind of guarantee on purchases. pending on the creditor. but, if it goes on for more than 90days, they are do not have to honor (and most likely will not) the transaction. Paypal (a way for credit cards to be used) offers sort of the same. but not entirely sure what there guarantee is.

all important thing is to keep the person informed. whether it be that you are shipping the item out, going to be late in shipping, or wanting to back out of the deal. being informed is better than wondering what is going on.

NEVER SEND CASH!!! i repeat, NEVER SEND CASH!!! the person you are sending to may be honest. but you never know about the mail carrier. send a money order or check. these items can be easily cancelled if it is lost or stolen.

credit cards is another way of paying for things. and offers a guarentee on purchases as noted above.

paypal is another way of sending funds. it is quick and easy to do. enables one to wire money from bank account to bank account. or use a credit card if the recieving party cannot directly recieve via the cards.

never, ever send cash. spend the extra $1 at the USPS for a money order.

when you send the item, either directly or to the 3rd party, use some type of tracking. UPS, FedEx, and DHL are great sources of tracking. they also offer inexpensive insurance. another way that i personally like is the USPS. i admit that they may not have all the garentees like UPS and the others have. but you would have some leverage since it is federaly regulated as explained in the next part.

don't loose that shipping number!! it is proof that you did send it. contact and let that person know the shipping number. also, don't loose that insurance form as shipping an item is not always 100%.

Mail Fraud
this is alittle something that i found on AutoMags Online that has helped me at one time.

The Form:

The Site:

Internet Fraud:

Fraud Bureau:

Web Police:

Better Business Bureau:

Regional BBB's:

Canadian Regional BBB's:

Helpful Tips:

If you must do business online, ask for references and make sure you get everything in writing.

Never pay for everything up front!

More Information:


You may be charged with:

MAIL FRAUD (18 U.S.C. 1341)

In layman's terms the definition of MAIL FRAUD is as follows:

It is a crime for anyone to use the U.S. mail, or any private or commercial interstate carrier (e.g. FedEx, U.P.S.), to carry out a scheme or plan to defraud (trick or lie) an individual or group.

In many jurisdictions to be convicted of mail fraud the Assistant U.S. Attorney (AUSA) has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the following items:

1. The person, conducted or attempted to conduct, a scheme or plan to defraud;
2. with the intent to commit fraud;
3. the person, directly or through another, used the U. S. Mail or private/commercial interstate carrier to carry out the fraud; and
4. the scheme involved false material representations.

Some actual cases:

1. Sending false financial statements through mails in order to secure credit, knowing that such statements are false, constitutes violation of 18 USC§ 1341.
Dranow v United States (1962, CA8 Minn)

2. Scheme whereby defendant sold certificates with promise to pay at maturity twice amount paid in, where defendant did not invest money received and had no income other than that paid by purchasers of certificates, was scheme to defraud.
Walker v United States (1907, CA9 Wash)

3. Mailing of any letter or writing by way of carrying out scheme is sufficient, although letter or writing itself may have been harmless.
Byron v United States (1921, CA9 Wash)

One may be found guilty of a felony, imprisoned up to 5 years, and fined up to $250,000. If a financial institution is involved, one may be imprisoned up to 30 years and fined up to $1,000,000. The punishment is per transaction. For example, if 8 letters are sent through the U.S. Mail and 10 packages are sent through FedEx, the potential punishment above is multiplied by 18.

Frequently, the Assistant U.S. Attorney (AUSA) will secure a Federal Indictment from a Federal Grand Jury and charge a defendant not only with mail fraud, but also with wire fraud, bank fraud, money laundering, and conspiracy to commit the aforementioned crimes. One should also be aware that since 1987 parole has been abolished in the Federal System. Expungement (removal of conviction from public records) is also not available.

This information was found at:
Markers: VS, Phantom, AutoCocker, PGP, AMG

Last edited by OtterSC : 12-28-2005 at 06:13 AM.
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