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Old 08-11-2008, 01:08 AM
timbertiger20 timbertiger20 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 695
Default Re: Why You May Want to Use CO2 Instead of HPA

Haha............Ok let's set a couple of things straight here..........there are alot of false statements in the whole thing. Who is he kidding? I work at an HPA/CO2 fill station..........let's point out a few things......

First off safety............you right..........Co2 is not as high of a pressure as HPA. However which do you see blowing more burst discs? If your hand is near the burst disk you will be seriously injured. The pressure really isn't much of an issue! The 4500 PSI tanks have been tested to burst at almost 18000PSI. A regular HPA compressor tops out at 5K, some up to 6K. If you leave your Air tank in the car what happens? Not much. Not to say that burst disks can't be blown but it is rare and usually by the air operator not paying attention! So let's go to CO2 filling methods vs HPA filling methods. HPA is easy......open valve and fill to the magical button on the scale. CO2 tanks must be eptied and chilled to fill. Most fields I go to have an incompetent filler. I have had tanks filled to 50% over capacity by fillers. You must use a scale! You must make sure tank is empty! You must fill to no more than the rating on the bottle! Most tanks I take to get filled are either way under filled or way under filled. I am way more confident that the kid filling air even if he manages to screw up and puts 4500 in a 3000 psi tank is safer than a significantly over filled CO2 tank. If you notice alot of accidents recently have been from C02 tank valves coming unscrewed. HPA tanks rarely come unscrewed and have safety measures to prevent this from happening! Most CO2 tanks do not. Neither is totally safe.........want safe......play ping pong! Oh one other thing............I was using CO2 awhile back in a landmine..........the landmine exploded with my Palmer's reg. Turns out it malfunctioned and instead of regulating to 70 psi........my reg froze and let all of the liquid CO2 into the system........nearly killed me! The box it was encased in exploded, every pipe exploded, several parts hit me in the chest and I broke a standard male air fitting when it hit me in the chest. I won't ever use the CO2 in a single regulated system again!

Efficiency..........well here is some suprising news........his chart is correct his logic is not! I play lots of pump ball. Ever try it with CO2 in cold weather? It's useless! Do you know what happens every winter here? Everyone buys HPA tanks. Take that same chart and apply it to 30 degrees. CO2 only puts about about 400 psi. I get almost 4 shots out of a phantom on a 12 gram! Oh guess what..............get the +/- 3 balls worth out of the 13 cu. in. HPA tank on my phantom. Efficiency........sure in the summer at 100 degrees that heavier 20 oz tank will do about the same as a 92/4500 tank. Your just adding 1lb 4oz. to your setup to compete with air at less than 1oz. Just remember when markers come out every one quibble's about 1 oz of weight removed for an extra $100.

Cleanliness............I also repair a few markers.........typically I have to remove those filters out of Spyders due to blockage! It's not our HPA as the air is tested several times per month for water, and purity.......it's scuba air!

To answer Vike's question on why you follow the instructions.........it's been proven that markers do not operate the same when using CO2! Here's why.........CO2 is much more dense than air.......it does not rise when it's released from the bottle because it is heavier. The weight of the gas can actually cause some markers to malfunction or operate inefficiently. Remember that marker parts are getting lighter and lighter weight. Using a heavier gas can actually cause those pieces to move differently. Remember you usually have some kind of an air balancing act in EP markers. It also doesn't help that the CO2 in your marker is constantly changing. Think about it. As soon as CO2 enters your marker it's regulated. But what happens to the gas beyond the regulator? It goes into storage areas and the marker body. You take a small amount of gas and it expands! If you have a small amount of CO2 on the LPR side and a large amount of CO2 on the opposite side..........depending on the chambers and the amount of surface area of the aluminum this gas could cause uneven expansion inside the marker. Hence one of many reasons you wouldn't use CO2 in that type of marker. Sure it's great in Spyder's and Tippys........they aren't using double regulators and sophisticated balancing acts..........although some of you do know they can be a pain to balance! How about those spring changes every game? How many times do those of you using HPA do that.........well if your tank has a decent regulator............NEVER! What about Water? The CO2 can and will cause moisture to build up around your solenoid. Just like on the outside of your bottle during high gas release. It can cause condensation on your solenoid during high rates of fire. Another reason you listen to your marker manufacturer. Those solenoids have very specific applications. Most are not designed to get wet!

Now onto someone else's comment...........CO2 is not an inert gas! Take a look at your Periodic Table of Elements.........now find CO2.........it's not an element! CO2 is very simply one carbon molecule combined with two oxygen molecules. Oxygen is a gas on the element table.........so is Carbon. The very definition of an inert gas is very simple it's a gas that does not easily mix with other elements. Obviously Oxygen is also not inert as it mixes with Carbon and Hydrogen very easily hence H20.

Not ridiculing Vike..............I'm teaching

Quick add on..........yes anti siphoning helps alot...............if you always make sure the tank siphon is straight up. Also let me point out for you remote user's..........if the tank is straight up...........don't anti-siphon! Also remember your tanks is alway pointed the same direction...........unless it's not. Anti siphoning and positioning works great..........but not all of the time...........shooting up and down can cause problems.........laying on the ground can cause alot more!
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