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View Full Version : Well... I love my T-1... but I want another.


Ace24
01-31-2007, 03:00 PM
So... Wich gun do you think I should get? I'm leaning twards a Shocker. But I have a new keen interest in Viking's and Marq's. So, from your experience, which marker is statistically the best, and wich do you find the nicest?

tater_salad
01-31-2007, 03:02 PM
I say Viking because I have been wanting one but just haven't got around to buying one.

Hob Hayward
01-31-2007, 03:08 PM
Phantom :dodgy:

Maxx-Damage
01-31-2007, 03:11 PM
It matters if u want the epiphany or the rail cause those 2 have my vote.

marvin-martian
01-31-2007, 03:13 PM
vikings are very cool markers

Reedoc
01-31-2007, 03:41 PM
Get the proto matrix rail. I've done my reasearch. It's a great gun if you don't want to drop a house payment for a gun. It rips just like a PM6...and it's easy to lube/clean (screw out the back and guts come out).

Oscum Guy
01-31-2007, 03:47 PM
Never shot any of them... but if i had the money to buy one i definetaly get the marq. second choice would be one of the new shockers.

Ace24
01-31-2007, 04:10 PM
Money isnt so much of an issue... Considering in the summer, I make $75 a day photographing, then I work at N'Vasion Paintball and make something like $50 a day. So... (aside from EGO's) $$ isn't so much of an issue.

marvin-martian
01-31-2007, 04:14 PM
what do you think of borgs?

Ace24
01-31-2007, 04:17 PM
Never experienced one. They look sick. I like the one that someone had on here that put alot of money into lazer engraving and made it a "Punisher" themed Borg.

What are they like?

marvin-martian
01-31-2007, 04:27 PM
i love their feel, and they are insanely efficient. i highly recommend you shooting one.

Opteron-O3
01-31-2007, 04:34 PM
Personally, I would recommend the Viking. Shoots like a dream, little on the heavy side(think Impulse setup), but it's worth it in my opinion. Simple yet effective.

Actually if you think about it. A Viking = Cyborg. But personally I would choose the Viking because I just love how it feels!

Ace24
01-31-2007, 04:38 PM
See the problem is, my field is basicly Smart Parts factory. There are so many ION's, Shockers, Nerves, Impulses.... its just annoying.

We also get our fair share of Tippmans (considering EX Tippman Effect players run our field), Spyders, Timmies, Angels, DMs/PMs, Rails. ACs and Egos. But I've yet to see a Marq, Viking, Borg, or Mini.

Opteron-O3
01-31-2007, 04:40 PM
See the problem is, my field is basicly Smart Parts factory. There are so many ION's, Shockers, Nerves, Impulses.... its just annoying.

We also get our fair share of Tippmans (considering EX Tippman Effect players run our field), Spyders, Timmies, Angels, DMs/PMs, Rails. ACs and Egos. But I've yet to see a Marq, Viking, Borg, or Mini.

That's what I love! Showing up at a field with a gun and people not knowing what the hell it is!

Ace24
01-31-2007, 04:42 PM
Me too. I've had so many trade offers for my T-1. People see it, see me use it, see me shoot tits with it, and want it. They also want to know what it is.

The only thing that sucks about having a gun like I have, when explaining the gun without having it on your person, people think its a peice of **** because of not understanding the operation/ gun at all.

Try telling a person that has been playing for 2 years that your gun is a Dragun One with a Fenix body.... They have no idea what you said and look at you like you have 3 eyes.

Opteron-O3
01-31-2007, 04:45 PM
Me too. I've had so many trade offers for my T-1. People see it, see me use it, see me shoot tits with it, and want it. They also want to know what it is.

The only thing that sucks about having a gun like I have, when explaining the gun without having it on your person, people think its a peice of **** because of not understanding the operation/ gun at all.

Try telling a person that has been playing for 2 years that your gun is a Dragun One with a Fenix body.... They have no idea what you said and look at you like you have 3 eyes.

Comes to show you how ignorant the majority of our ballers are. I guarantee if you go up to one person and say. "How does the Dragun TES operate mechanically?" or "How does a Spyder operate mechanically?". There will be some that know, but there will be a good amount of people that won't know.

Ace24
01-31-2007, 04:58 PM
Sadly... thats very true. Yet they own DM's and Shockers. Wich are 10 times more difficult to understand then a simple Spyder.

MVS1
01-31-2007, 05:08 PM
Like I've said many times, spyders are the Chevy of paintball markers...cheap, easy to maitain and pretty cheap to upgrade. I love my LP pilot, I've mod'd practically every thing you can and still have yet to get bored with it...If you decide to go with a shocker, consider getting the First Endeavor Quest (FEQ), I have been on the fence about getting one in the digital desert camo and would love to hear how incredible it is to help push me over to getting one.

Ace24
01-31-2007, 05:12 PM
Isnt it basicly a Shocker with a different milled body?

Halucin8
01-31-2007, 05:17 PM
what are ya doing with the T-1 then? i have no idea on the other markers but might be interested in you T-1

Ace24
01-31-2007, 05:21 PM
Oh I'm keeping it lmao. I <3 that marker. I put alot of hard work and time and patience into making it...

vikingshadow
01-31-2007, 06:52 PM
I thought you didn't like Shockers?

I say a Viking...

Ace24
01-31-2007, 07:14 PM
Opinions change with experience.

What do Vikings go for? Also what are their weight, BPS, efficiency, and recoil like?

Muddytaco
01-31-2007, 07:38 PM
Opinions change with experience.

What do Vikings go for? Also what are their weight, BPS, efficiency, and recoil like?

Price-
03 unmilled $375-450
04 unmilled $500-575
milled $725 and up depending on year and type of milling

weight-
probably 3.5lbs for unmilled
around 2 lbs for milled

BPS-
there is a video of zak vetter doing 31 bps with qloader

efficiency-
over 2000 on 68/4500

recoil-
like a timmy maybe alittle less

Ace24
01-31-2007, 07:42 PM
Hmmm.. What barrel thread do they use?

750 and up for milled? How much would one that looks like yours cost? I <3 yours haha.

Muddytaco
01-31-2007, 08:43 PM
I got mine for $750 but the guy was in need of a quick sale, '04's are usually around 800-850

there cocker threads

Ace24
02-01-2007, 07:37 AM
Is it really worth that amount of money?

WhatThaSmurf
02-01-2007, 07:40 AM
No, he was lying :dodgy:

Ace24
02-01-2007, 07:44 AM
Well, I don't know anything about these guns thats why I was wondering how a gun from '04 can retain its value so well.

Muddytaco
02-01-2007, 10:15 AM
Is it really worth that amount of money?


no i spent that much on something i hate:dodgy:

marvin-martian
02-01-2007, 10:17 AM
no i spent that much on something i hate:dodgy:
twice

Theheroguy
02-01-2007, 11:46 AM
That's what I love! Showing up at a field with a gun and people not knowing what the hell it is!

lol once I went to the field and besides me the guy who owned it and a ref no one knew what an angel was

Opteron-O3
02-01-2007, 01:25 PM
lol once I went to the field and besides me the guy who owned it and a ref no one knew what an angel was
How Ironic don't you think? The Angel was once the most talked about gun and now...

Well, I don't know anything about these guns thats why I was wondering how a gun from '04 can retain its value so well.

The fact that the design is flawless and super efficient makes it keep it's value. Probably also the fact that there are only a few left, since SP sued them and all...

Hob Hayward
02-01-2007, 01:31 PM
Yeah, its primarily because they're hard to come by. That also means, they retain there value and could go up in value if one were to keep it in good condition.

Sandman_Bravo
02-01-2007, 04:47 PM
shocker sft

yamaha cow
02-01-2007, 05:30 PM
is ion FTW

Halucin8
02-01-2007, 05:33 PM
maybe i am stuck in a rut. I love my t-1 and right now just can't seem to grasp the concept of buying a marker at 400 dollars. i have bought cars for less. but if i had to pick i say rail because of the review on it here. and ions are everywhere even in the woods of north carolina and i want to be different than the norm

Opteron-O3
02-01-2007, 06:02 PM
I want a T1 too... I think they're the sex...

vikingshadow
02-01-2007, 06:23 PM
They are - I had two of them! Wish I'd never have sold them.

My review on the Rail is located here (http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=8252). I've had an Angel, T1's, TES, Shocker, Spyders, and shot just about every other gun out there with the exception of a few of the more rare guns. I can honestly say that if you had to drop 400.00 on a gun that shot nearly perfect brand new out of the box with NO upgrades needed, the Rail is probably the best of them all. And that's not biasedness, because I have no brand loyalty to fall back on.

By the way, I also like showing up at the field and knowing I'm the only one with a gun like it in three counties! :devil:

Opteron-O3
02-01-2007, 06:26 PM
I like being the knowledgable baller at my field, who actually knows what they're talking about :D

vikingshadow
02-01-2007, 06:28 PM
Hahahaha - at my field, that's pretty much a given!

Nenkitsune
02-01-2007, 06:30 PM
ions are everywhere even in the woods of north carolina and i want to be different than the norm
yep, i know of at least 3 of them that live nearby me. and i mean it by in the woods, all they play is in their backyard woods ^^

Ace24
02-01-2007, 07:12 PM
Ok first off, I don't want an ION. (Nothing against them, I just want higher end)

Secondly, I still want higher end then a Rail.

Third, money isn't a HUGE issue. (It is, and then it isn't.)

Honestly, from what I've seen, I might have to keep an eye out for a Viking. Or maybe a Borg? Someone said they are basicly the same.

I want a T1 too... I think they're the sex...

They are the sex. If you put a Spyder body (not nessisary to make it rip... but I like the looks better then the origonal T-1 body) on one, put timmy eye covers on it, put break beam eyes in from SD and a new board (Dragun Ultra T-board for example from SD) and a QEV, they rip. I love mine so much. I would just rather put it as a back-up marker due to the fact that it's got alot of external hoses, parts, and what not... making it more fragile then something like a Viking, Marq or Shocker. (wich have no external hoses, and such)

Hob Hayward
02-01-2007, 07:22 PM
So you just want to show off a fancy gun do you? If thats the case, you want an ego (lol) but seriously, best gun I know of is the borg. Then again as everyone says- it comes down to user preference when you're talking about higher end guns. Shoot some at the field you work at.

Ace24
02-01-2007, 07:29 PM
No its not that I just want to show off a fancy gun. I mean, I will make it fancy, no doubt... :dodgy: but I want a gun with high preformance (not a DM or PM... dont like how they feel) that is semi rare. I dont like the idea of spending so much money on Ego's. If I was to get an Ego, I'd just put alot of money into a Timmy and probably get more out of it. (no?)

The problem is this, (if you read earlier) I'm limited as to the guns I can try, due to my field being basicly a Smart Parts factory (LOTS OF SHOCKERS AND IONS and IMPS). There are lots of Ego's, DM's, PM's, Rails, Timmies, Spyders, Tippmanns, and Autocockers. No Vikings, Borgs, Marq's, BK's, Promasters, and so on. (Although I've seen one Promaster being used... and the kid was selling it)

vikingshadow
02-02-2007, 04:00 AM
Secondly, I still want higher end then a Rail.

This reminds me of your previous statements about the Shocker, before "experience" changed your mind. You totally misunderstand the Rail, and I question what you actually know of them.

NOTE: I'm not trying to convince you to buy a rail. I don't really care what gun you get, because I'll probably never see you and borrow it, hehehe! It's obviously status that you're going for, and that's ok! I do it, as well as a lot of other people and that's cool with me. It's just these kind of uninformed statements that get my blood going! Don't believe most of what you read on the nation.....ever! I also understand your statement about how you don't like how a DM/PM feels. That's ok, too, so long as you understand they shoot a LOT like a shocker.

Ok, to start with, what do you consider high end? I guarantee the Rail shoots just as fast (or faster) and as easy (or easier) and most of the time BETTER than any of the "high end" guns I've shot, including my extremely upgraded shocker. It shoots MUCH easier than any Timmy I ever shot, and I got it going as fast as my friend could get his EGO to shoot. I have yet to find a gun as comfortable and as easy to maintain as this gun.

Fact 1 - 26 bps EASILY achieved with no upgrades necessary (in an assisted mode, of course.)
Fact 2 - Extremely low pressure - 150 psi operating pressure
Fact 3 - Hyper II reg - one of the top 3-5 regs out there.
Fact 4 - Smaller profile than any other PM to date (except maybe the PM7)
Fact 5 - Comes stock with an "upgraded" board with 4 modes - Semi, PSP, Millenium Ramping, and NXL full auto. Has trigger sensitivity adjustment, dwell adjustment and ABS. No need for anything else!
Fact 6 - set it and go pressure - NO NEED to have an LPR because of the way the bolt works with "boost forward" technology. Works much like a level 10 automag system. Bolt moves relatively slow at first, but by the end of it's cycle it puts more force in it.
Fact 7 - The only "plastic" parts this gun has is the frame, the trigger and the feedneck COLLAR. The "plastic" frame has been proven time and again to be stronger than the alloy used to make frames of regular guns. It's also lighter and EXTREMELY comfortable - best frame I've ever gripped. The "plastic" feedneck is a misnomer - it has a metal frame and just the collar is plastic and rubber composite - extremely durable and grips the hopper feedneck extremly well.
Fact 8 - Sure, the trigger is not the best. However, most people upgrade a trigger no matter WHAT gun they have. This is a moot point.
Fact 9 - The barrel has cocker threads, just like other "high end" guns.
Fact 10 - kick is NON existant on a properly set up Rail. Just like a gun with an LPR.
Fact 11 - Most people say, "You could have saved the extra 150.00 you HAVE to put into it and buy a used PM6." Then you could spend an extra 150.00 putting upgrades into a USED gun that most people usually add to their guns anyways! And from what I can tell, except for an LPR, there isn't much difference between the two, operation-wise.

Now, you tell me what more is needed on that list to make it "high end"? I won't deny it's considered a mid-level gun. Like the ION, it wasn't designed to stop the sales of their other guns. There were corners cut (in the form of "plastic" parts.) There are plenty of upgrades you can get if you want to change that though, so then does it become a "high end" gun?

Now, I know "high end" guns that have less than this list involved in it. IF the Rail had been all metal and had a price tag of 1200.00 on it, not a SINGLE person would call them mid level guns, but everyone equates them to the ION because it has some "plastic" on them. Guys, I guarantee you, if PM had put an 800.00 price tag on this, it'd still roll out the door with people buying them.

Once again, I could care less what gun you get. I say Viking because it's different and a kind of "status" symbol. However, when I saw that statement, I had visions of your previous Shocker comments and just had to clear things up. Sorry for the midmorning rant.

Ace24
02-02-2007, 07:38 AM
No I am greatful that you posted that. I need to know this stuff. This is why I posted this thread. I know the DM/PM shoots alot like the Shocker, it's almost identicle... The thing I dont like is how the gun sits in my hands and feels when I run/hold it. I also don't like the look of the gun, and looks mean alot to me with guns. (Not that I just want a flashy gun... thats not it at all, I just like cordination, blending of colors, and I see a marker as your personal expression. It is to me... Keep in mind I am also a very visual, very artistic person) DM's and PM's completely turn me off for looks. (although, I must admit, I have seen a few that were very artisticly put together. Taco's for example is impressive)

I've shot a Rail once before. I want to try a game with it. (Same as I had to do to convince myself that the Shocker was a good marker.)

Sorry I misunderstood the Rail.

vikingshadow
02-02-2007, 09:01 AM
:up: No problem whatsoever. I like the looks of things as well so I understand.

samus129
02-02-2007, 09:45 AM
whats a LPR

TheRedBarron
02-02-2007, 10:36 AM
By the way, I also like showing up at the field and knowing I'm the only one with a gun like it in three counties! :devil:
Troof, only for me it is more like the entire state of Maine...

Okay here is my .0002Yen.

You want a marker that can compete, look good, not everyone has one, and you will be able to enjoy.

Viking, I have owned one, they mow faces, they get about a gajillion shots off from a 45/4500 that isn't filled fully, they are consistent as hell, they weigh more then a small car, they are taller then most peoples homes in Africa, and they lack a certain originality as far as looks go. Parts are hard to find sometimes, and tech support is non existent outside of the Internet.

so, Viking 9/10 performance, 3/10 looks and weight

Rail, I have tested them thoroughly, I have yet to own one, chances are I wont own one (just because i'm not a fan of spoolers) They are light, they are snappy, they are cheap, they have a lot of upgrade potential, more or less it IS is older brother with slightly cheaper parts making it a kick ass gun for less. It is not like the Ion.

Rail 7-10 performance, 7-10 looks and weight (IMO)

Shocker, I have owned one, my wife has owned one, Shockers are not very original but they will always be out there mostly because the design is solid as hell, single tube, spool valve, fast, light. problems with shockers involve reliability issues, inconsistencies (welcome to the world of SP) triggers I never really found a shocker trigger that I liked.

Shocker 7-10 performance, 7-10 looks 9-10 weight

Marq, I own a Marq6, The Marq is a little off the wall compared to the other guns that you listed. The Marq is complex but simple, it is a timmy with one tube more or less, everything is settup to run smoothly just like a timmy, you will notice that they are light, fast, and everything a timmy is, with a feel much like that of a DM when it comes to shooting and kick etc. The Marq is a pricey piece that is worth every penny, not to mention it will turn heads.

Marq performance 9-10, looks IMO 8-10, weight 9-10

06 Borg, I own one, my wife owns one, The borg is a creature in and of itself, it is fast, it is consistent, it is everything that a viking is in a smaller, lighter (arguably better looking) package. A Borg is a rarity at many fields but will not let you down in times of need. Not to mention there is support for them, and parts for them.

Borg performance 8-10, looks 6.5-10, weight 7-10

06 Timmy, I own a Infamous Timmy, like any other Timmy, this thing is fast, like OMG fast, unlike other timmahs, this thing is small and light. Bob long has long been one of the premo manufacturers of markers, they have modified and adjusted their design and tweaked it year after year, the 06 is a force to reckon with, IMO shooting smoother, just as fast, and just as accurate as Egos, in a better looking, more reliable, less common package.

Timmy (06) performance 9-10, looks IMO 9-10, weight/balance 8.5-10

Angel A1, I own an angel A1 as does my wife, the Angel platform has FOREVER been the one that people compared their markers to, recently this has changed to Egos, however, the Angel A1 has kind of sat in the background and smirked knowing that it is a kickass marker that is silently mowing faces, it is light, fast, reliable, easy to tech, small OMG small, and WDP offers some of the best tech support out there. the user interface is fun, easy to learn, and gives you something to talk about with the noobs. The A1 comes with just about everything you need, you don't really even need to upgrade the barrel system as this is one of the best barrels out there, let alone for a stock barrel.

A1, performance, 9-10, looks eh its a mini of its older brothers 7-10, weight 10-10,

Quest, my daughter owns a quest the FEP Quest came out hyped to hell, for the most part I will say it lived up to alot of its hype, it is more or less a shocker with a more comfy frame, more comfy trigger, and slightly uglier looks, it shoots fast, it shoots smooth, it isn't the most consistent beast out there but it can hold its own. They now come with WAS as well.

Performance 7.5-10, looks IMO 5-10, weight 8-10

I hope this helps, this is mostly opinions on my part, you can find tech specs online.

El Duche
02-02-2007, 10:39 AM
They are the sex. If you put a Spyder body (not nessisary to make it rip... but I like the looks better then the origonal T-1 body) on one, put timmy eye covers on it, put break beam eyes in from SD and a new board (Dragun Ultra T-board for example from SD) and a QEV, they rip. I love mine so much. I would just rather put it as a back-up marker due to the fact that it's got alot of external hoses, parts, and what not... making it more fragile then something like a Viking, Marq or Shocker. (wich have no external hoses, and such)

almost every gun has at least one external hose. from the bottomline to the ASA or the foregrip/reg:p

Why is the tongue out smiley pink?

bamf-hacker
02-02-2007, 11:05 AM
I would say get the marker YOU like the best, not what we all like the best. Try them at the field, borrow friends to shoot, etc...

Just because one of us likes it does not mean you will.

or, You could get a Tippman and then go to the Tippman forums :D

J/K Buddy I had to add that.

Ace24
02-02-2007, 11:20 PM
Thank you Red, and thank you Hacker.

Well... here is whats up. I worked tonight at my field. I got LAUGHED at when meantioning a Viking and the Marq. The manager told me that if I bought one I might as well be throwing my money away. Then another fellow reff came over and laughed at me. (this is why I have such corrupt ideas of guns...) The manager told me to buy his Tippman Effect Tippman, or a Shocker he was selling for $325 that would come with a Blackheart board. :(

Like I said, any gun outside of Ego's, DM/PM's, Shockers, highly modded ION's, and beastly Autocockers get laughed at, at my field. :( It sort of depresses me. My gun was laughed at when I described it. People still laugh at me (the fellow refs, managers, and a small number of "experienced" players) for having it. Yet I can shoot tits and mow faces with it just as well as someone with an ION at our field. (With out the spool valve issues and drop off)

I am VERY interested in trying a Borg. The more I search for Vikings the more I realise that the kind I want is that of Taco's. A milled one, almost identicle, or very similar to it. Wich is very, very hard to find. I figure I would have better luck finding a Borg then one of those. (Red, I am also not a HUGE fan of spool valves... I see alot of reliability go down the ****ter with them at our field, especially with Shockers.)

I'm never going to get a chance to try a Borg unless I just go and buy one. I mean, if I don't like it, I can just trade it to Taco right? :dodgy:

almost every gun has at least one external hose. from the bottomline to the ASA or the foregrip/reg:p

Why is the tongue out smiley pink?

Yes... but... my gun has hoses that you would normally find on the inside of an EP gun, on the outside. The hoses go from the LPR, to the sole in the trigger frame (thats when it goes inside) then back outside to the ramcap in the back, wich runs through the external QEV.

I didn't mean the macroline and fittings that go from the ASA to the reg. Those are much more durable fittings and hoses then on the parts I listed above.

bamf-hacker
02-03-2007, 03:51 AM
OK first off, If they laughed at you for mentioning a Viking or Marq you should not be getting advise from them.

More important, it is not the marker, but the player. After hearing what you said about them, I say get a pump!!!

Then go play with them and show them some ownage. Let them laugh at that!

For real though, keep trying the markers and you will find the one you like best. Look at Taco, he has traded for every marker out there and in the end went back to the 2 he liked the best.

Opteron-O3
02-03-2007, 04:25 AM
OK first off, If they laughed at you for mentioning a Viking or Marq you should not be getting advise from them.

You ought to slap those guys... shows how much knowledge they have about paintball guns...

Most of the players that laugh at you for having a wierd setup are usually the ones that wish to look "agg" on the field. I pity those fools... :rolleyes:

Nenkitsune
02-03-2007, 07:03 AM
i'm hoping people laugh at me when i built my spocker. i'll make sure it has a nice barrel kit (probably a prolyte) then gog them all. i can't belive anyone would laugh at a marq

Opteron-O3
02-03-2007, 11:15 AM
I hope to get this guys EM1...

El Duche
02-03-2007, 12:53 PM
Yes... but... my gun has hoses that you would normally find on the inside of an EP gun, on the outside. The hoses go from the LPR, to the sole in the trigger frame (thats when it goes inside) then back outside to the ramcap in the back, wich runs through the external QEV.

I didn't mean the macroline and fittings that go from the ASA to the reg. Those are much more durable fittings and hoses then on the parts I listed above.

I know what you meant. I just felt like being a smart ass. I have a T1 too, only it has been taking up space in my closet for me to return to that particular project.

Ace24
02-03-2007, 09:28 PM
Alright. So I will save up for a Borg/Viking, then if I dont like it, I'll trade for a Marq, and then if I dont like the Marq (wich I highly doubt, due to my love for Timmies), I'll trade for two Shockers with good ups or one Hybrid Shocker.

Nenkitsune
02-04-2007, 02:02 AM
I hope to get this guys EM1...
who's? mine? i'm never gettin rid of mine XP. actually when im done with it, the only parts that will be from the original, will be the feedneck, body, and that's it. everything else is going to be bushmaster (or cocker in the case of the lpr)

Backmanshooter
02-04-2007, 07:15 AM
Well depends on your budget. From looking at the chocies you arent. If you want a shocker and cheap, get the 03 or an 04 with vision. I've seen them very cheap. About 300.

IMO, I'd go with a cheap DM4, like I did. I got it for only $350. It all depends on what feels right for you and what markers you like best.

Good luck.

Oscum Guy
02-04-2007, 11:04 AM
How Ironic don't you think? The Angel was once the most talked about gun and now...



The fact that the design is flawless and super efficient makes it keep it's value. Probably also the fact that there are only a few left, since SP sued them and all...
why did sp sue them?

marvin-martian
02-04-2007, 11:05 AM
patent infringement i believe...

Oscum Guy
02-04-2007, 11:17 AM
This reminds me of your previous statements about the Shocker, before "experience" changed your mind. You totally misunderstand the Rail, and I question what you actually know of them.

NOTE: I'm not trying to convince you to buy a rail. I don't really care what gun you get, because I'll probably never see you and borrow it, hehehe! It's obviously status that you're going for, and that's ok! I do it, as well as a lot of other people and that's cool with me. It's just these kind of uninformed statements that get my blood going! Don't believe most of what you read on the nation.....ever! I also understand your statement about how you don't like how a DM/PM feels. That's ok, too, so long as you understand they shoot a LOT like a shocker.

Ok, to start with, what do you consider high end? I guarantee the Rail shoots just as fast (or faster) and as easy (or easier) and most of the time BETTER than any of the "high end" guns I've shot, including my extremely upgraded shocker. It shoots MUCH easier than any Timmy I ever shot, and I got it going as fast as my friend could get his EGO to shoot. I have yet to find a gun as comfortable and as easy to maintain as this gun.

Fact 1 - 26 bps EASILY achieved with no upgrades necessary (in an assisted mode, of course.)
Fact 2 - Extremely low pressure - 150 psi operating pressure
Fact 3 - Hyper II reg - one of the top 3-5 regs out there.
Fact 4 - Smaller profile than any other PM to date (except maybe the PM7)
Fact 5 - Comes stock with an "upgraded" board with 4 modes - Semi, PSP, Millenium Ramping, and NXL full auto. Has trigger sensitivity adjustment, dwell adjustment and ABS. No need for anything else!
Fact 6 - set it and go pressure - NO NEED to have an LPR because of the way the bolt works with "boost forward" technology. Works much like a level 10 automag system. Bolt moves relatively slow at first, but by the end of it's cycle it puts more force in it.
Fact 7 - The only "plastic" parts this gun has is the frame, the trigger and the feedneck COLLAR. The "plastic" frame has been proven time and again to be stronger than the alloy used to make frames of regular guns. It's also lighter and EXTREMELY comfortable - best frame I've ever gripped. The "plastic" feedneck is a misnomer - it has a metal frame and just the collar is plastic and rubber composite - extremely durable and grips the hopper feedneck extremly well.
Fact 8 - Sure, the trigger is not the best. However, most people upgrade a trigger no matter WHAT gun they have. This is a moot point.
Fact 9 - The barrel has cocker threads, just like other "high end" guns.
Fact 10 - kick is NON existant on a properly set up Rail. Just like a gun with an LPR.
Fact 11 - Most people say, "You could have saved the extra 150.00 you HAVE to put into it and buy a used PM6." Then you could spend an extra 150.00 putting upgrades into a USED gun that most people usually add to their guns anyways! And from what I can tell, except for an LPR, there isn't much difference between the two, operation-wise.

Now, you tell me what more is needed on that list to make it "high end"? I won't deny it's considered a mid-level gun. Like the ION, it wasn't designed to stop the sales of their other guns. There were corners cut (in the form of "plastic" parts.) There are plenty of upgrades you can get if you want to change that though, so then does it become a "high end" gun?

Now, I know "high end" guns that have less than this list involved in it. IF the Rail had been all metal and had a price tag of 1200.00 on it, not a SINGLE person would call them mid level guns, but everyone equates them to the ION because it has some "plastic" on them. Guys, I guarantee you, if PM had put an 800.00 price tag on this, it'd still roll out the door with people buying them.

Once again, I could care less what gun you get. I say Viking because it's different and a kind of "status" symbol. However, when I saw that statement, I had visions of your previous Shocker comments and just had to clear things up. Sorry for the midmorning rant.
you convinced me that the rail is a freakin awesome marker. i should have bought one instead of my spimmy project. maybe next year.

Ace24
02-04-2007, 06:45 PM
Man I love the looks of the '06 and '07 Borg. As soon as I saw it, I had upgrades and anno jobs and lazer engraving ideas popping into my head.

How are the Viking and Borg basicly the same? The Viking has two tubes, as where the Borg has one...

What are the operations of both? Vike, is it possible that you could give me a thing like you did for the Rail on both the Viking and the Borg? :)

timmyshoota
02-04-2007, 07:02 PM
You need to do more research if you don't know the reasons why you should get a Viking or a Borg. The biggest seller for both markers is their insane efficieny, but at fields now, that isn't that big anymore. All day air is cheap, having a gun that can shoot a case doesn't make much difference now. I personally think the trigger on Borgs suck. The trigger on the Marq is muuuuch better after magnet modding it. All you really need is a gun that can shoot half a case off a 68/45 and you're set. Vikings I have no experience with, but I certainly wouldn't spend the money on a milled one. They are not easy to trade off anymore, so if you don't like it, you are stuck with it or gonna take a hit. I'd get one just to have one, but I wouldn't make it my main gun if I wasn't positive I want to keep it.

Do some research before you buy, because it seems like you haven't, and just want us to decide which marker you should get.

08Lud08
02-04-2007, 07:12 PM
I like the hybrid traitor marq, it looks sick as hell.

timmyshoota
02-04-2007, 07:19 PM
I like the hybrid traitor marq, it looks sick as hell.
Yeah, except its $400 more for milling and a bolt guide. :rolleyes: They'd be great if they were like $1200.

Total90Oliver
02-04-2007, 07:21 PM
Get The Ripper 3, that gu looks sick, nice body, cool colors, plus its awsome. Either that or like a MacDev Cyborg

timmyshoota
02-04-2007, 07:46 PM
Get The Ripper 3, that gu looks sick, nice body, cool colors, plus its awsome. Either that or like a MacDev Cyborg

I do not suggest the Ripper 3. I'd rather have a Ripper2 or 2.5. The Gen4 Timmys are a little more unreliable compared to Gen3s. I've had too many problems with my Gen4, where I never had problems with my Gen3s.

Ace24
02-04-2007, 08:02 PM
I'm trying to do research, but I don't know where to look. Thats why I was hoping Vike knew and could give me some specs on the Viking and the Borg as he did for the Rail (his post about it was amazing!)

timmyshoota
02-04-2007, 08:19 PM
I'm trying to do research, but I don't know where to look. Thats why I was hoping Vike knew and could give me some specs on the Viking and the Borg as he did for the Rail (his post about it was amazing!)
He hasn't ever owned either so I doubt he could give you information like he can about a marker he owns. PBNation has a forum for every type of marker. That'd be where I'd look for info...

Ace24
02-04-2007, 08:21 PM
Oh yeah... forgot about that. :(

I haven't been on the nation in so long.

timmyshoota
02-04-2007, 08:24 PM
The Nation is the single largest paintball information center, if you aren't using it, you're only hurting yourself.

Ace24
02-04-2007, 08:44 PM
Yes, but I disagree with alot of views and opinions of more people on the nation then on any other paintball site. This also could be because the large amount of people that use it... so you get a little bit of everything. As where here, it's more of a tight knit community.

(I also forgot it exsisted for a while there, due to my slowing down of forum usage in the past few months. Been very busy with school, Robotics (go ahead and laugh) and work and had no time for paintball or other things)

vikingshadow
02-05-2007, 03:41 AM
What Timmy said - I can't give you information, other than the information I've read, on those two guns. I try not to anyways! The nation, while I hate them, does give a lot of information.

Lately, I go in just to see what the idiots are going to post incorrectly...and I've been going there a lot! Good for some laughs from time to time...

Theheroguy
02-05-2007, 06:58 AM
Yeah i go to the nation a lot for info sometimes I even see a kusa member there.

Once again I would recommend a marq because they have everything. Looks, speed, good enough efficiency, a nice trigger without modding IMO, and because almost no one has em. I might kidnap my friend and take his.....

timmyshoota
02-05-2007, 07:14 AM
a nice trigger without modding IMO
The trigger stock, is garbage. The spring is WAY too stiff to get a decent ROF going. After throwing some magnets in there though you can adjust the pull and get it right.

Oscum Guy
02-05-2007, 09:46 AM
why not just take the spring out?

timmyshoota
02-05-2007, 10:06 AM
why not just take the spring out?

Because then you get bounce from hell. There's no way of stopping the bounce with the spring out. Thats why you replace it with magnets. The trigger setup of Timmys and Marqs allows for super fast ROF, but if not set up right, they bounce like mad. I think Timmys have the worst history of bounce in paintball.

Ace24
02-05-2007, 11:30 AM
Because then you get bounce from hell. There's no way of stopping the bounce with the spring out. Thats why you replace it with magnets. The trigger setup of Timmys and Marqs allows for super fast ROF, but if not set up right, they bounce like mad. I think Timmys have the worst history of bounce in paintball.
You should have seen my T-1 with out a spring in it and a 25g switch. That was interesting...

timmyshoota
02-05-2007, 03:20 PM
I could slap my tank with my Marq with no spring and it would go full auto.

Ace24
02-05-2007, 06:25 PM
I all I did was tip my gun up. Or at a slight angle. lmao.

We couldnt get it to stop at one point. I kept putting my finger under the trigger, and then taking it out and tipping the gun forward but as soon as I picked it up again to level it, it went back to full auto haha. Man The One cycles fast.

Anywho... I can get a rare X-Fighters '06 Cyborg in mint condition for $725. Offered that today.

OH and guess what. After talking to our manager that laughed at me before, he actually liked the idea of me getting a '06 or '07 Borg. Odd how opinion changes so fast. (Sort of hypocritical, I know :( )

Opteron-O3
02-05-2007, 07:25 PM
Borgs :thumbup:

Rare yet effective.

MVS1
02-05-2007, 08:01 PM
http://www.doropaintball.com/ab1038101equick/shopexd.asp?id=9947I vote other...First Endeavor Quest in the Marine Corps Digital Desert Camo. If you shop around you can find it for less.