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View Full Version : Why Do So Many People Hate Smart Parts


Theheroguy
01-12-2007, 08:12 PM
I never exactly found out why some have a burning hatred for this company.

shunut
01-12-2007, 08:27 PM
Lots of people have problem with their customer service. Not sure if thats the reason why but it doesn't help.

DyNasty9
01-12-2007, 08:36 PM
well i thought people hated them for sueing viking or , whatever company it was. theyy ended up putting them out of business i guess.

personally when i sent my shocker in they did a great job with it, not only fixing the problem but replacing my detends and fixing my reg so my macro wasnt at a weird angle. so i think there customer service is up to par.

timmyshoota
01-12-2007, 08:36 PM
Basically because its the cool thing to do. People started bashing them for their business actions, and then it became the thing to do. Their lawsuits ended production of the Viking, Excalibur, E-mag and X-mag. Its a bunch of legal stuff that most people don't understand. They had every right to do what they did. What people don't understand is that the Gardner brothers(owners of Smart Parts) are running a business. Sometimes with a business you make decisions that don't please people, but are necessary to protect what you own. I don't agree with everything SP has done, but I don't hate them. My only problem with them is that they make inferior products IMO. The only good things I think they make are jerseys(custom order ones) and tanks.

fxdbi
01-12-2007, 08:41 PM
Some Good point timmyshoota. One thing to keep in mind is paintball is a business, and just as any other business you will have people that love you, people that hate you and people who care less. The problem I see in so many industries, the one I work in for sure, is the "mob mentality" where if the "best guy" at the field, in the office, at the job site hates something, soon everyone else does just to fit in or be cool.

The problem is, it can cause some bad things for businesses that otherwise would have no problems, and it's not even from their own personal experience that they hate the company.

durrell
01-12-2007, 08:51 PM
Chris covered it as best as can be covered. People don't like them because of all the lawsuit stuff. I personally don't like them because they make crappy products. Every SP gun I've owned has always had some sort of problem out of the box.

avantpaintballer99
01-12-2007, 09:07 PM
I personally don't like them because they make crappy products
maybe you just have bad luck, lmao
i used to have one of there guns, loved it, one of the best for the price
personally i dont think theres anything wrong with putting another company out of buisness, when your trying to make money you gotta do what you gotta do, obviously it hasnt hurt smart parts's buisness that much.
its not like the comapanys they put out were big name ones, they werent benefitting anyone

bigred76
01-12-2007, 11:11 PM
That is a slight bit heartless, Avant. Think about it... they put some of the best marker manufactures out of business. Think about where the industry could be if Viking could have been given more time to make their design lighter and more efficient. Think about how many people they disappointed when the X-Mag went out of production. Think about where we would be if the E-Mag had been able to have made a longer stint and revolutionized reliability in paintball. Just think about it before you talk next time. *gets off soap box*

I personally am displeased with SP over some issues like what I just stated. Don't get me wrong, I do own a Shocker. I just don't like how they run the company.... Too "I'm out for my own good, screw you other guys" in a market that is highly limited and relying on other companies to conjoin to promote the sport and make it better.

vikingshadow
01-13-2007, 03:34 AM
I may be old and cynical, but that's exactly what a successful business does and should do. It's about clearing the bottom line, making way for your own company to be the one on top. How many business has WAL-MART done in? Not national names, but just local business? Then think about Ford, Chevy, Dell, McIntosh, Gerber, so on and so forth. There are companies that have gone under because of them. Because it's paintball, Smart Parts should be different?

I look at this company as the first TRUE corporate business in paintball. Everyone else did it because they "love" the game. They did it to make money, plain and simple - and there's nothing wrong with that - this is America!

Now, I personally never had any problems with my Shocker until I tried lowering the pressure of the gun down to 220 fps for indoor. Other than that, it's been quite good, so my experience with the company has been good. That's how I judge something.

As far as SP hate, welcome to PBNation - of the dozen or so forums I've been a part of, THAT is the only forum where I've seen hatred for what they call "business practices." It just cracks me up! They HATE Smart Parts because what they've done to the sport (puhlease, they've done a LOT for it). They HATE Virtue because they scammed them on their own scam-filled forums. Never mind that they put out some of the top drawer items in the world. Puh-lease. Pot. Kettle. Black. And dirty.

Anywho - what I'm trying to say is, I am not loyal to any one company or product for the simple fact that just because I get it good (or bad) from the company, that doesn't mean someone isn't getting it bad. My measly 30.00 isn't going to sink the company or make it soar. I judge them from the equipment or goods that I have in my hand right now. If it's bad, I won't buy it again. If it's good, I might get one again, IF someone else doesn't have one that I think is better.

Sorry, /early morning, ice covered, freezing rant!

Sandman_Bravo
01-13-2007, 04:29 AM
Chris covered it as best as can be covered. People don't like them because of all the lawsuit stuff. I personally don't like them because they make crappy products. Every SP gun I've owned has always had some sort of problem out of the box.

I had no problems with my Shocker out of the box. (I stripped the bolt guide, but that was my mistake) I have 3 friends with Ions that rip, and one with an SP8. That's 5 out of 5 that worked great out of the box, or a 100% working rate. Just a side note, 2 of the Ion owners played all year using oil (via the ASA)instead of the recommended Dow 33 and never once dis-assembled to clean & re-lube. One of those 2 are is using CO2 not the preferred HPA. I know everyone has their own opinions, but in my area (and group of friends) we have had nothing but success and fun.

Theheroguy
01-13-2007, 05:48 AM
that poor poor ion is it antisiphoned co2 at least man?

I wanted to know this cuz I felt bad buying a freak kit cuz everyone told me they had bad morals or something but never explained it to me

spyderpaintball
01-13-2007, 05:57 AM
I dont dislike dislike the company Smart Parts rather I dislike some of the products put out by them (i.e Shocker). I dont care what business practices one uses to get ahead as long as it is ethical. Smart Parts lawsuits were all legal so I really dont care.

Vike since you bring up Virtue here is a company that I will never use any product from. What they did was completly unethical in creating false accounts to decieve the public in order to boost sales. That my friends is completly unethical and with a slew of other top notch board companies out there (Tadao, Hater) I wont buy Virtue becuase of unethical business decisions.

Sandman_Bravo
01-13-2007, 06:20 AM
that poor poor ion is it antisiphoned co2 at least man?


Yes, it's anti-syphoned.
Spyderpaintball, what specifically do you have against the Shocker?

avantpaintballer99
01-13-2007, 06:54 AM
That is a slight bit heartless, Avant. Think about it... they put some of the best marker manufactures out of business. Think about where the industry could be if Viking could have been given more time to make their design lighter and more efficient. Think about how many people they disappointed when the X-Mag went out of production. Think about where we would be if the E-Mag had been able to have made a longer stint and revolutionized reliability in paintball. Just think about it before you talk next time. *gets off soap box*

I personally am displeased with SP over some issues like what I just stated. Don't get me wrong, I do own a Shocker. I just don't like how they run the company.... Too "I'm out for my own good, screw you other guys" in a market that is highly limited and relying on other companies to conjoin to promote the sport and make it better.

i couldnt disagree with you anymore
its a BUISNESS, its just how things go sometime, if you dont like that then well, theres not much anyone can do for you.
this is a good company becuz they in it for the money not *the pride of paintball*
dont get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with the *pride of painball* but some people want to run a money making buisness and thats another part of this buisness concept that apparently you dont like at all
those companys might of made good guns, but you know what?
theres tons of other companys out there PICK ONE!
i did think about what i said and its not heartless at all, its a BUISNESS

spyderpaintball
01-13-2007, 07:24 AM
Yes, it's anti-syphoned.
Spyderpaintball, what specifically do you have against the Shocker?

Between people I know that have had them and havinng worked in a paintball store we have fixed and had to send out more Shockers than any other gun by a large margin. It has way to many reliablity issues for me to be comfortable playing with it. Also as a store we have sent in a few guns to b teched by SP and they sent us guns the guns back still broken AND charged us for it.

clickclicksplat
01-13-2007, 07:34 AM
I have no probelem with Smart Parts, but I do hate the ion owners who go out on PBReview every time a new higher-end spyder comes out and go "ZOMG This gun sux0rs teh big 0n3!!11one! Go buy an 10n, it ownzors this gun hardc0r3!!"

Hob Hayward
01-13-2007, 07:44 AM
Can someone explain exactly what did happen with the SP lawsuits? I was under the impression that SP came along and copywrited all of this technology that no other companies had bothered to copywrite before, while they were using it. The SP went ahead and sued all the other companies for using stuff under their patents.

That seems pretty sick to me, but I don't even know if thats correct.

And vike, walmart IS EVIL. I wouldn't use that as an example.

timmyshoota
01-13-2007, 03:01 PM
Yes, it's anti-syphoned.
Spyderpaintball, what specifically do you have against the Shocker?
Oh boy, lemme answer this one!!

Lets start with the body. Horrible job choosing materials for the body. Research and testing should of shown the metal to not hold the anno well, or at all. It took them 4 years to fix that, instead of fixing it after a year or 2.

The bolt design is TERRIBLE. Its the most inefficient gun on the market. They put out the HE bolt, but that thing gets what other Spools get stock, yet you have to buy it as an upgrade.

The trigger frame was made for 7 year olds. There's hardly any space in the trigger guard, and the trigger design isn't well either. Timmy's probably have one of the best trigger designs on the market, if only more companies would copy their ideas.

The stock board is garbage. You get 3 things to change. Dwell, "rebound" and ramp activation. Let's not include a way to change ROF, which is important in the tourney scene, that'd be retarded!! The only way to control ROF is to play with the rebound, which is not accurate. You either have to make it way high and the ROF low, or cut it close and risk it shooting hot. The idea of upper and lower boards is also another thing they should of gotten rid of. It was dumb on the Imp, it was dumb on the Shocker. One board would suffice, I mean...it works for every other gun, why not Shockers?

Eyes...WHO IN THE WORLD USES BOUNCEBEAM EYES?!?! That was cool stuff back in 2001, but its 2007 and they just now moved on to breakbeam.

Barrel threads....Let's create a new gun, and give it its own threading!!! A good number of our customers have probably bought Impulses, and love their barrel they have on it, so let's make them buy a whole new one!!! Standard barrel threading is the way to go. I believe every company should be using Cocker threading. Wait til the day you somehow forget your barrel at the field, and no one else has a Shocker. Have fun shooting 5 feet.

With all those things, Shockers were horrible for $1000, and still weren't that great for $700. A Shocker was my second high end gun, after owning an Angel. It was a serious downgrade and found its way into a new owner's hands quickly. I've owned 2 Shockers since then. One is the one that Tim has now, which I bought for cheap, and the other was a 05 Dynasty that I also bought for cheap and made a couple hundred dollars off of. The only one I miss at all is the Dynasty, because I love the milling, and it actually had a decent trigger frame.

There is not another high end gun on the market that you can find that many things wrong with. Shockers are the only high end that almost require another $400 in upgrades to be a worthy high end.


That should sum it up. :)

Edit: Yes, I did sell Tim a Shocker. Did I scam him by selling him what I thought was a shoddy gun? Nope. His gun came with most of the upgrades I believe a Shocker needs out of the box, the only thing missing being a fully upgraded bolt, which will only cost $50 and will STILL keep him well under the cost of used Shockers with the same amount of upgrades. I was originally gonna sell him an Alias Timmy, but the deal I was getting fell through, so I sold him my Shocker, which was an upgrade from his Ion, but at a really good price.

El Duche
01-13-2007, 08:08 PM
their business practice. they have to have a patent on everything that they do. they aren't really helping to advance the sport either. If more companies were allowed to build off of the same concept guns could get lighter, faster, and more efficient. Instead they are out to make money instead of improve the sport. Even though the goal of any business is to make money they should make moves that benefit the sport, themselves, and their customers. in a smart parts catalog that I got they did sorta poke fun at themselves by saying that the T shirt is one of the few things they don't have patented.

bigred76
01-13-2007, 10:55 PM
Edit: Yes, I did sell Tim a Shocker. Did I scam him by selling him what I thought was a shoddy gun? Nope. His gun came with most of the upgrades I believe a Shocker needs out of the box, the only thing missing being a fully upgraded bolt, which will only cost $50 and will STILL keep him well under the cost of used Shockers with the same amount of upgrades. I was originally gonna sell him an Alias Timmy, but the deal I was getting fell through, so I sold him my Shocker, which was an upgrade from his Ion, but at a really good price.
I do not believe you scammed me in the slightest. I got EXACTLY what I paid for, plus some. If anything, I ripped you off LOL! He is right, Eigenbolts will give my Shocker a shot count of somewhere upwards of 1800, and the NOX will give me 1500 shots. As is, it's only a 1200 shot gun. Not quite as much as I like, but it's decent enough. Deffinately an improvement over a 1000 shot Shocker (on a good day...). All in all, the marker will only cost me $50 to finish making it a true "high-end," that purchase being that of the Eigenbolt (when it available, that is... Lurker hasn't put it out yet... :(). Overall, the marker feels great. I cannot fault SP for anything in the design except the high dwell requirement of the bolt and the material not liking annodizing. But then again, with the annodizing, I wouldn't get the nice pinkish tint it has. :D

AvantPaintballer... IM/PM me please, I have a word to pick with you, or eight or nine...

I completely understand the business prospects of SP... HOWEVER: when you are working in a limited market (like paintball, it's not a HUGE sport by any means), you need to support the market as much as possible. Make your move after it becomes a major sport, at the least. Doing so will allow the sport to prosper, opening new doors for more players and thus more income down the line. I guess that you just can't see that... :rolleyes:

Dilatedug
01-16-2007, 06:57 PM
i dont love smart parts ..but i do hate the ion..i love the shockers though..i guess its taht most people hate ions not smart parts

vikingshadow
01-17-2007, 03:54 AM
I don't even think it's that people hate Ions. I think that on the "nation" people found it the cool thing to flame Ions because of the "plastic" outer body piece, then the Ion owners (not a majority of them, but a few newer players who didn't know any better) came in and started saying how the Ion was the best gun, not just for the money, but better than Shockers, Angels, etc. and they had never used anything but their brother's spyder before that.

Ok, so I made that part up!

But, what that encouraged was this wild flame fest there, which spilled into other forums because of the vast number of members there. Unfortunately, it was bs on both sides of the spectrum, and is actually hurting the PMR because of it's "plastic" properties....this is the exact reason why when anyone starts an "ION vs [insert gun here] thread, I tell everyone to take it easy before it even gets started.

timbertiger20
01-17-2007, 04:57 PM
OK, why I hate Smart Parts Vol.1 .......just kidding I feel like I'm writing an essay.

First they sued alot of companies. I have never seen the evidence of their claims or what not.......but the essential claim to own the right to produce any electronics in a paintball marker.......which I don't believe to be true according to what I know. Maybe someone more knowledgable in the older markers can tell us more. I can tell you this. It has gone all the way to MacDev......who has had to make an agreement with Smart Parts that a certain amount of every marker they sell has to be sent to Smart Parts as Royalties. Now I know that my Cyborg shares almost next to nothing with Smart Parts.

Also it's a major company that likes throwing around it weight.

Last but not least this really steams me. The SPPL was started two years ago as a woodsball tournament and with heavy restrictions on markers. SP was nice enough to help leverage EP's into the tournament this last year! With that change SP entered it own factory team into the tournament. Which is fine by me. This included at least one of the Garners brothers if not both. The team stomped the other teams........mostly by bending the rules or blatently cheating and because of who they were the refs were afraid to do anything. One of their players was hit in the goggles and continued to play, jumping over a bunker 25 feet away and shooting his opponent.....who stopped even paying attention to him. Then he yelled to the ref that both players were taken out. They continuously called to the refs to paint check opponents........which is a penalty because it causes the refs to inspect a player that they might not know the exact location of. Yet not one penalty was assessed.......to that team specifically. Also a playing on Penalty was assessed at one time which is when SP took the tournament operator into the back room to talk about it and later it was subsequently squashed! Yet my buddies team was assesed a playing on penalty even though not one ref knew why and they had no player ID or impact location. This penalty was kept in place! They just have a tendancy to be bullies in the paintball community!

I personally will never own a paintball marker from SP and I for one can't wait for their patent to expire! I'll stick with the goofy Australians and the good old down home companies that are medium to small and produce great products!

Oh by the way how many companies built upon the Spyder body? Seen Kingman out suing those people? Kingman has also been good to me! That's why I still hang out on their forums!

calebh
01-17-2007, 05:32 PM
they've done things both good and bad for the sport. what an individual thinks about sp basically rests on what sp has done for the individual.

for me, im not a huge fan of sp, but i dont hate em, either. if i dont buy equipment from them, its because i can find better equipment elsewhere for less. if i do buy equipment from them, its because they managed to make a good product for a good price. i wasnt too happy when they sued everyone, especially when the lawsuits caused the xmag to be discontinued, but that's business.

tons of corporations pull that crap everyday, with more important outcomes than a marker being discontinued. ive never heard any complaints about drug companies squashing competitors with cheaper and better alternatives, ive never heard any complaints about how apple has virtually monopolized the online music market, and ive never heard any complaints about microsoft's new copy protection attempts which will hurt everyone more than it will hurt the pirates, ive never heard about how huge department stores are hurting small businesses which sell things slightly more important than a marker, ive never heard about how oil company execs get billion dollar retirement bonuses while we were paying nearly $3 a gallon of gas, ive never heard about the many billions of cash and equipment that have been lost in iraq to corrupt corporations. i figure if you're going to flame a company, make it important...