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bracer028
01-09-2007, 04:52 PM
i tried to go LP, i changed all the springs, but everytime i rock the trigger on the electra, it sputters. am i shooting too fast for the internals to fill back up with air?

MVS1
01-09-2007, 05:07 PM
i tried to go LP, i changed all the springs, but everytime i rock the trigger on the electra, it sputters. am i shooting too fast for the internals to fill back up with air?
That's it exactly, had the same problem when I mod'd one of my buddies Elerctra w/eyes...solution: well the route we took was a LPC, drilled front-block and expansion chamber from a pilot ACS and a bottomline reg. There are numerous ways you can reslove this problem but all of them boil down to increasing your volume of air, amount of air flowing through it and getting a regulator that has a better recovery time. 15* assault block and a good reg is a real good way to go as well. The stock config won't get you cycling consistantly below 500-550 psi.

bracer028
01-09-2007, 05:08 PM
i have an lp set up already...

aka bolt
trinity block
ndz valve
cp reg

so i just gotta shoot slow?

Muddytaco
01-09-2007, 05:18 PM
you don't have to shoot slow you just need to fine tune your setup, to much air or to little air will cause it not to work. You need to find the exact pressure your gun needs to run properly, its all trial and error.

bracer028
01-09-2007, 05:20 PM
but i've tried all spring combos

they all sputter at some point.

Muddytaco
01-09-2007, 05:23 PM
You want to have a hard valve spring and medium to light spring on the hammer. Are you shooting with paint or just dry firing?

bracer028
01-09-2007, 05:30 PM
just dry.

what springs will give the lowest fps for main and give the lowest fps for valve?

should i give stock springs a try?

Abe2112
01-09-2007, 05:58 PM
If you are using c02 you should upgrade to n2 because the C02 Reload rate is pretty slow.

bracer028
01-09-2007, 06:13 PM
i have air.

MVS1
01-09-2007, 06:23 PM
If you are using c02 you should upgrade to n2 because the C02 Reload rate is pretty slow.
Not necessarily but thats not the point of this thread so let's not get into a debate over it...Hard main spring will increase your FPS, where softer will decrease. As for the valve spring a hard spring will push the cupseal harder against the valve and allow less air to flow through the valve do to the shorter duration the valve is opened, softer spring will increase the duration (were talking milliseconds here) the valve is open, but too soft of a spring may lead to air leaking past the cupseal. LP takes a ton of experimenting with parts and spring combos, and unfortunately what works on one marker may not work on the other. You may need to go to a lightened striker to get your marker to consistantly cycle at a low operating pressure. What pressure are you trying to operate at anyways?

bracer028
01-09-2007, 06:24 PM
doesn't matter what i want to operate at.

i just want it to recock without sputtering when i rock the trigger

Abe2112
01-10-2007, 06:06 PM
Not necessarily but thats not the point of this thread so let's not get into a debate over it...

Shut the **** I up i was saying that the C02 may not be putting enough pressure back into his gun fast enough to re-cock it you know-it-all prick.


I'm done.

-your not getting an apology and I still don't care if I was wrong. I hate helping people out or attempting to anymore.

emf7301
01-10-2007, 09:49 PM
Abe relax man, MVS does have a point. I sometimes find that my LP spyder runs better on CO2 than air. It all depends on the current setup. MVS has built a LP spyder as have I; have you? Show some respect and humility and accept that you aren't always right and that not everyone is out to get you.

As MVS has said, your best chance is to just play around with spring and pressure combos to find what works best. Also try test firing with paintballs. My lp gun won't recock unless there's a paintball in the chamber. Just an issue my gun has and yours might too.

bigred76
01-10-2007, 10:02 PM
Chillax Abe... If he doesn't want to listen to you, you have a right to not bother helping him. It's one of the great freedoms bestowed upon us. :) Another great part of this forum is that if you don't want to "help" someone, you can always cruise on down to the other sections and just chill and talk paintball with us vets. We're a great bunch 'o people and don't bite... Well, I don't know about Drago... He IS a Dragon afterall.... :D

Back-pressure does help to recock a marker as it helps blockade the flow of air ever-so-slightly out the barrel and redirect it backwards out the rear of the valve to push the striker into the cocked position.

I'd sugest trying a medium valve spring and a light main spring. Oddly enough, sometimes it works. This is because it has to push back on the striker with less air force to recock the marker. The medium valve spring means that you need less PSI holding it closed. If it still doesn't work, put in the light valve spring.

CO2 and HPA differ wildly when it comes to LP set-ups. It's remarkable comparing the two. Because of CO2's expansion properties, it tends to be a better gas for LP operations, so long as the ROF is not too high.

Bracer... your OP has EVERYTHING to do with this thread... :rolleyes: If you give us that bit of information, we're able to help you better. If you don't, we're going blindly in the dark with general thought that might or might not help you in the slightest.

MVS1
01-10-2007, 10:53 PM
Shut the **** I up i was saying that the C02 may not be putting enough pressure back into his gun fast enough to re-cock it you know-it-all prick.


I'm done.

-your not getting an apology and I still don't care if I was wrong. I hate helping people out or attempting to anymore.
No problem, the reason I wrote what I did was I was trying to avoid hi-jacking this thread by debating CO2 vs. HPA, I've seen it happen to many times and unfortunately it doesn't do a thing to help the guy that originally post the thread looking for help. If I offend you or came across in that manner I apologize. I did not post it with that intention. I am a huge proponent of HPA, however it has been my experience with numerous LP projects that when going from CO2 to HPA I have had to increase my operating pressure to get consistant operation using HPA. As far as I am concerned, No blood No foul, and I hope that you are able to do the same.

bracer028
01-11-2007, 08:55 AM
Bracer... your OP has EVERYTHING to do with this thread... If you give us that bit of information, we're able to help you better. If you don't, we're going blindly in the dark with general thought that might or might not help you in the slightest.

i'd love to tell you what my operating pressure is.

but i also need to know what is the correct PSI so that it won't burp when i rock the trigger.

Thats why i'm wondering how i would be able to increase the PSI while lowering the FPS. I think the biggest problem is that i don't have enough pressure going in fast enough into the internals.

when i use CO2, it recocks perfectly fine and actually can rock the trigger without a problem. now i need to make sure i can do it with HPA.

MVS1
01-11-2007, 11:43 AM
i'd love to tell you what my operating pressure is.

but i also need to know what is the correct PSI so that it won't burp when i rock the trigger.

Thats why i'm wondering how i would be able to increase the PSI while lowering the FPS. I think the biggest problem is that i don't have enough pressure going in fast enough into the internals.

Try increasing your psi by 50 psi and see if HPA will cycle smoothly, if not another 50. Once you get it cycling smooth and consistant then grab your spring kit and head to the chrono. Change out the main spring if your shooting hot (over 290-300 fps) put in a lighter spring (which will reduce your FPS), they are color coded and the color key as to hard, medium and light (soft) is usually on the back of the package the springs came in. If you don't have the package anymore, let us know what type kit you have, ie. 32 degrees, extreme rage, etc. and I bet somebody here will be able to tell you which one is which.

when i use CO2, it recocks perfectly fine and actually can rock the trigger without a problem. now i need to make sure i can do it with HPA.

With CO2 since the gas continues to expand in the marker it basically is producing more gas, a reserve if you will. Since HPA/N2 remains the same volume once its in the marker it doesn't have that "reserve" benefit that CO2 encounters, the other side of that is pressure spikes from CO2 which effect shot consistancy.

Once you get the marker cycling smoothly and your FPS in the "acceptable" range (most fields are between 275-285 fps, but that varies) then start lowering your reg pressure by small consistant steps, ideally 10 psi then check your fps. If the fps drops below 250-260 put a stiffer spring back in to bring your fps back up. When you reach the point where your marker starts to sputter you've passed the lower threshold your setup will operate at, bring your pressure back up to the previous level.

Hopefully this helps ya out, believe me, I know tuning Lp can be a real pain in the arse. Try not to get frustrated, we're here for ya when needed.

bracer028
01-11-2007, 01:13 PM
thanks so much.

bigred76
01-11-2007, 09:43 PM
i'd love to tell you what my operating pressure is.

but i also need to know what is the correct PSI so that it won't burp when i rock the trigger.

Thats why i'm wondering how i would be able to increase the PSI while lowering the FPS. I think the biggest problem is that i don't have enough pressure going in fast enough into the internals.
Ah, you might have to increase the PSI (oddly enough) to help the valve stay closed better (more force on it holding it closed), which will lower FPS. Other than that... a :yeahthat: to MVS.

Abe2112
01-12-2007, 03:36 PM
woah sorry about that post....that was really wierd

Hob Hayward
01-12-2007, 06:40 PM
MVS1, I'm, with the theory that the reason co2 recocks better is because the gas is heavier than air. Thats why when you get say dry ice, the smokeish stuff that sublimates from the ice sinks, because its heavier. If the pressure was increasing like you say that would be reflected by the pressure gauge.

I can say that co2 works better in my LP imagine than HPA, at the same exact pressure (by what the gauge says, not by the reg adjustments)

STRIKEFIRST
01-12-2007, 11:39 PM
MVS1, I'm, with the theory that the reason co2 recocks better is because the gas is heavier than air. Thats why when you get say dry ice, the smokeish stuff that sublimates from the ice sinks, because its heavier. If the pressure was increasing like you say that would be reflected by the pressure gauge.

I can say that co2 works better in my LP imagine than HPA, at the same exact pressure (by what the gauge says, not by the reg adjustments)

I haven't seen an LP spyder yet that ran exactly the same with co2 or n2...n2 may require a higher pressure.

bigred76
01-12-2007, 11:43 PM
They are different gasses with entirely different thermodynamic properties... of course they won't perform the same. :rolleyes:

bracer028
01-13-2007, 03:30 PM
i finlaly got it to work properly

i'm running at 240 psi at 275 fps

i had to use a stock valve and a light main. I ended up cutting 5 coils on the light main as well.

oh well...its working and running pretty efficient