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View Full Version : Vike's Proto Rail Review


vikingshadow
01-02-2007, 02:58 PM
As many of you know, I have to really believe in something before I support it. I’m not a fan boy of any company, and have no loyalty to any particular group. That being said, I just got this gun, and it’s the first Dye gun I’ve owned, so I WILL NOT BE COMPARING IT TO THE PM’s or DM’s. Rather, I will be comparing it to my Shocker, another spool valve gun. The idea was to see if this gun would turn my Shocker into my backup gun (as if I need one! LOL!) I’m going to get some more air and paint and get videos of it for you to round this review out, but probably not until next weekend.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/Rail1.jpg

FIRST IMPRESSIONS

Past the initial thrill of getting a new gun from Fed Ex, I settled down and decided to judge this with a reserved eye. First thing I noticed was how small the package was and the good packaging. It’s in a solid cardboard box that is wrapped with an outer sleeve around it. There was no wasted space in this package. However, I don’t think the packaging made the cost of the gun rise much, if any.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/Protocase.jpg

It’s roughly HALF the width and depth of my Shocker box, and roughly the same width and height, but half the depth of my Empire Reloader B box.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/casecomparison.jpg

While I oohed and ahhed about the size of the packaging, my wife and kids were bugging me to open it! So I opened it, and immediately saw the manual on top. The manual itself is very well written, with very detailed colored pictures explaining everything from the Quick Reference/setup guide to the board and how to set it to the Airport, everything. Very easy to read, and the pictures help a lot! Under the manual was the actual gun in it’s foam holder.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/protoinfoam.jpg

I got the black one because when I ordered it, the colors weren’t out yet, and weren’t scheduled to come out for another month, although as soon as I ordered it and sent my money, I found out the blue ones were out, and possibly the red (I wanted the olive one, but oh well!) Underneath that were the barrel, the condom, the lube, a set of Allen wrenches, a parts kit with orings and detents, a Proto battery and a Proto sticker.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/accessories.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/outofthebox.jpg

The milling on the gun and barrel is ok, not super impressive as I was led to believe by some posts on other forums, but not bad - definitely not cheap as I had seen mentioned on yet another site. To lay this issue to rest, the composite polymer parts (not plastic as plastic is more brittle – think Glock handguns polymer) are the feedneck SLEEVE, the frame, the trigger, the eye covers, and the back cap. The rest of the gun is well-anno’d in a dust finish (mine is black.) The frame is super light, yet feels pretty sturdy. Not sure how I feel on this part yet. The rubber on the back of it is actually quite comfortable as it rests on my hand. It really makes it possible to grip the frame with a somewhat looser grip, and still feel solid in the hand.

The trigger, while not totally uncomfortable, is not ideal. Because of the spring, it’s hard to walk fast (for me.) As of now, I’m definitely looking at another at a cost of about 30.00. The stock trigger is easily adjustable in two spots for front and back travel. Not sure yet if the microswitch activation is adjustable, but I don’t think so. The feedneck itself is metal, and although the outer sleeve is polymer, I still prefer the lever style clamping feednecks. I’ll probably switch my Qlock sleeve over when I use this gun, but I won’t be buying a new feedneck as this is plenty good the way it is.

The eye covers are designed to sit flush with the body, and one of mine actually does. The other juts out a little at the bottom, but as I’m not too picky about the little details, it’ll be fine for now. I will be upgrading these though with the aluminum, colored version soon. The only other problem I’ve heard of is the back cap giving way. This will probably be an upgrade I’ll be making soon, but not too soon as I’m sure it’ll be fine for awhile. Unless you look at it up close, it looks just like the rest of the body as far as the dust finish goes, so not a big deal until it goes out. I’ll definitely be upgrading the trigger, back cap and eyes – mostly for the aluminum parts, but also because I can get them in a different color. Just have to decide what color!

WEIGHT

I’ve heard a lot said about the weight – taken from another site, the actual weight the actual weight with reg, barrel, battery and all is 1.22 pounds. However, it didn’t feel all that different from my Shocker until I held both, and sure enough – it did weigh less. Not a significant amount, though.

OUT OF THE BOX

When I removed it from it’s case, I really got a feel for it’s size. Amazingly, though, it’s not smaller than my shocker. See comparison pics below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/railandshockercompare.jpg

Here's a pic of it compared to my Halo shelled Reloader Spawn of the Devil.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/sidebysidecompare.jpg

My shocker has a 12 inch Freak barrel, and the Rail’s Proto barrel is 11 inches, so there is only like an inch or two difference between the two in length. I put the Rail on top of my Shocker and they are exactly the same height. The difference being that my shocker has an SP rail and an ASA on it, whereas the Rail has an integrated dovetail in the bottom of the frame. So, size for size, they are equal - however in the weight battle, the Rail wins.

After putting the barrel on (a nice .690 Proto one piece) and hooking the air up to it, I decided to give it a go. First thing, I had to play with the new style adjustable Airport ASA. This isn’t an on/off – which I think is a necessity for me – but I thought I’d give it a shot. It took awhile adjusting it, but I found the combination soon enough. Now, I haven’t lubed it yet, nor have I changed any settings other than adjusting the trigger pull and turning the eyes off. I shot some air through it and was a bit surprised that in my initial dry firing (100 or less) I had used up about 1000 psi. WOW! Not very good at all, even for just dry firing! Surprisingly, the trigger is very easy to walk with my left hand, rather a bit more difficult with the right – I personally think it’s the spring, which I’ll remove as soon as I’m brave enough to take the frame off.

Another myth – my Rail has absolutely NO kick. It also had NO barrel rise at high rates of fire, unlike my Shocker. As far as noise signature, it’s very similar to my shocker.

New pictures of the Rail with UL frame here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/after3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/vikingshadow/Gun%20pics/after2.jpg

vikingshadow
01-02-2007, 02:58 PM
SHOOTING

Ok, decided that after looking at it and stroking it for awhile, I was going to just have to take it outside and shoot some paint through it. I shot a few shots with some old paint (Nelson Nel-Splatt) I had left from my last practice about a year ago and the shots were WAY off target. I chrono’d and it was at 332! This brought up a problem with the manual. It says, “Turning the adjustment screw in (clockwise) will decrease the pressure.” Um, not on mine! I did that and it shot to 372 fps! So I went the other direction, and got it shooting in the 300 fps range.

I was amazed! The sound signature DROPPED to much less than my shocker, and each shot was nearly ball on ball at about a 40 ft range. I had probably a 6 inch pattern where 8 out of every 10 balls were hitting – and that’s with the stock Proto one piece barrel. Not bad at all. I also noticed I wasn’t using near as much air (duh!) I stuck it over the chrono and recorded shots of 286, 296, 285, 294, 292 and 295. Not the +/- 3 I’d read about, but by the end it was pretty close. However, remember that this is with factory lube and the reg not being broken in. I think it’ll work out great in the end. I decided to try and rip on it with the paint I had left in the loader and OMG! Stock trigger or no, that thing flew, even with my weaker hand!

I haven’t messed with the PSP settings or the Millenium settings yet – everything is bone stock right now. However, if I can rip this easy on it in semi, after being out for a year and not even picking up a gun until this past couple of weeks, then imagine what could be done with someone with practice. I may never even use the other settings!

FINAL THOUGHTS FOR NOW

If you read PBNation you’re going to see a lot of flaming going on that reminds you of the ION flame fest of a couple years ago, and still continues today. However, while I have shot DM’s and PM’s, I haven’t played with them enough to compare the two. I can say that if the DM/PM owners are correct and this is a cheap version of their guns, then WOW! Those DM’s and PM’s must be awesome. This gun flat out rips, for the money or not. I choose to believe that they’re being hateful to those beginners who haven’t “earned” their way, in their minds, to a high end performing gun yet, and want to let them know about it. I, on the other hand, have a high end gun, and honestly can’t tell the difference between the two as far as quality goes.

So, in Vike’s opinion (and you all know I have one!):

Is it worth the MAP of 400.00? I don’t think so, but then I don’t think any gun is worth the money that we’re charged. A better question is if it’s worth it compared to the price we pay for most guns, then yes, definitely!

Is it perfect? No. You have to fiddle with the new style Airport, which is a hassle. It has parts that are going to need to be replaced like the trigger and back cap. It has parts that you will want to replace, but aren’t necessary - the eye covers and the feedneck sleeve. Obviously, when a new bolt comes out that offers better efficiency, that’s going to be important. No, it’s not perfect, but it’s close enough out of the box that you can take your time getting these parts.

Is it like an Ion? Go away. It’s not made by the same company, it uses a different operation and parts – of course it’s going to be different. In my opinion, it’s better than an Ion, especially out of the box. I have no problems with Ions – just stock, they aren’t that great. Sorry if that offends – but the Rail blows a stock Ion, or even one that’s moderately upgraded, away. However, the idea isn’t that it’s better than an Ion – it’s a better gun for half the price of it’s brothers…

Is this my new primary gun? You know what – it might just be! My Shocker is great – I’ve played with it for years, and I love it, but this new Rail is just something else. Right away, it’s AT LEAST as good as my Shocker, with less efficiency, and my Shocker is upgraded to the hilt. I’ll have to play a bit with it to see for sure, but it’s sure looking good right now!

Sorry for the long winded review, but it’s not even close to finished yet! I just got it so I haven’t put it through it’s paces yet. I’ll update this as I discover more about this beast!

Here’s what I’m going to to: New ASA, new trigger, new bolt cap, new eye covers and possibly a new barrel and feedneck sleeve. After that, if the frame gives me any problems, I’ll look into getting an UL frame for it.

Edit - I don't believe it, but I actually think I chopped a ball. I'm going to have to raise the speed to 3 on the Reloader!

calebh
01-02-2007, 03:16 PM
umm, if there's eyes, how'd it chop? j/w

Team Ramrod
01-02-2007, 03:19 PM
tl;dr

lol, just play'n. Looks great Vike, I haven't played in a few months so i haven't been out to try these new guns, hope it all works out for you Vike. Good luck.

vikingshadow
01-02-2007, 03:24 PM
umm, if there's eyes, how'd it chop? j/w

See, I don't know about that. I thought it was a barrel break, but paint was going up the feedneck so I assumed it was a chop.(I haven't cleaned it yet, so I don't know if there's any on the bolt.

It could have just been a ball that got pushed past the detents, then shot by the next ball. I don't know. All I do know is that I've never had super fast fingers, at least not for an extended period of time. Add to that I haven't even shot a paintball gun for almost a year and the speeds I was achieving in semi with both hands, and the amount of time I did it for, just amazed me.

ShadowX
01-02-2007, 03:36 PM
Wow, you review has really swung me into the direction of buying a Rail..

Great review Vike, Very impressive.. Let us know how it does as you put it through it's paces..

timmyshoota
01-02-2007, 03:58 PM
DM/PMs are amazing guns, so you were definitely right with your suspicions. I also have that same barrel(came stock on the PM5s) and it does shoot great. I've used it sometimes when I'm shooting crappy paint and don't want to get a lot of breaks in my Stiffi and it shoots fine.

I'm trying to trade my Empire2 for a UL'd PM6 right now. You need to UL your Rail, it turns it into a whole new beast. I think it should be the last upgrade you do, but it should definitely be done.

IMO. Barrel(unless you like em short, which you might considering your Freak), Trigger, eye covers, bolt cap, feedneck. Upgrade in that order. I actually like non-on/off ASAs after using one on my Marq6, its not as bad as I used to think it was.

bamf-hacker
01-02-2007, 04:40 PM
Great review Vike....

and the point of a review is to be TL;DR :)

paintsplat242
01-02-2007, 05:18 PM
uhh do you think the rail is better than a mini? I just bought a mini but may be looking towards a rail....

vikingshadow
01-02-2007, 05:55 PM
Don't know much about the Mini. What I researched though didn't sound too promising to me. Remember, though, I'm a spool valve junkie, and I think the mini is some sort of poppet valve gun.

My reasons for staying away from that gun were sort of shallow, though. I didn't like the looks of the gun, the fact that it's a new company without any tried and true markers on the market, and it just seemed too small to me, and that's coming from a guy with small guns in the first place! However, I'm not going to say anything bad about them because i don't know any particulars about them.

Maybe you should test yours and write a review when you get it!

TheRedBarron
01-03-2007, 11:11 AM
If you dont mind Vike I will answer the Rail Vs. Mini Q.

I have shot both, like any marker comparison it is really hard to tell that one is better then the other fully. However I feel as if the Mini is more neat then it is a competitor. It is tiny, it is light but it is not really practical. It has an interesting feel to it but it does not feel like a real marker to me and that is my biggest problem with it, I also can see it being a PIA when it comes to teching. It really does not have any chance for upgrade either which is a serious -.

The PMR like Vike has stated is a competitor right out of the box, I do not care for the stock trigger but other then that it shoots very similar to its older brothers. It is fairly easy to tech, it has plenty of upgradeability. You will not hear me praise Dye markers very often but this time I think they did the market justice.

paintsplat242
01-03-2007, 02:36 PM
K ty guys

vikingshadow
01-03-2007, 03:10 PM
Not a problem, RB! Thanks for inputing that as I really didn't have a good answer to give. However, I do have to say that what you said makes me think I wasn't so incorrect in my thinking.

Hossy
01-04-2007, 11:11 PM
can you take the ASA off, or not?

vikingshadow
01-05-2007, 03:05 AM
Yes, you can. There's a grub screw that screws down from the inside of the frame, pushing down on the asa to hold it secure. You can also replace it with any ASA that can fit on a dovetail.

wbpaintball
01-14-2007, 09:23 AM
did the gun come with a rechargeable battery? and charger?
im thinking about getting one would you recommend it?

Hossy
01-14-2007, 09:24 AM
no, you dont recharge the battery, pop in a new one i believe.

he likes it, so i bet he'll recommend it

vikingshadow
01-14-2007, 12:05 PM
Like Hossy said, no rechargeable battery, but I bet you could find one at Radio Shack and use it.

However, while I would normally recommend something I really like, I don't recommend this gun to newer players because of it's operation and maintenance issues at the moment. I think soon, most of the issues will be resolved with it, but this first batch has a couple of issues (note, I haven't seen them on my gun personally, but others have played with theirs for awhile longer than me.) While it's a cheaper gun and super easy to shoot, cheaper ain't always easier! I know that's contrary to what most people say, and the main reason it's so cheap, but I think that people need to really consider this before buying any spool valve marker.

Do I recommend this gun? Yes! If you're a newer player though, it WON'T be as easy as the pin valve operation in the Spyder though. Get ready to learn! This gun has also proven to have leaking issues I've heard. I had a bit of a problem with it the first time I took it apart, but I just replaced some orings and it was fine. Others aren't so lucky, I've heard.

Maxx-Damage
01-14-2007, 01:55 PM
Vike u never answer if u chopped a ball. And how easy is it to take it apart?

vikingshadow
01-14-2007, 04:52 PM
Sorry! I forgot about that.

I still don't know if I chopped the ball or not. There wasn't very much paint on the outside of the bolt, and no pieces inside the gun. I think it was more due to old paint just blowing apart than chopping the balls. Until I get some new paint to shoot, I won't know for sure (we're having a bit of an ice storm right now, and it's supposed to happen again next weekend, so it may be awhile yet.) However, I'm going to say there were NO chops just because it doesn't make sense with the eyes on and my loader at level 3.

It's VERY easy to take apart. Just unscrew the bolt cap with the provided allen wrench (key) until it spins 360 degrees freely, then pull it out the back. The whole bolt assembly slides out, then you can separate the can from the manifold, remove an oring from the bolt and slide it free. Actually, it's MUCH easier to remove than my Shocker bolt. Howver, installing it is a bit more difficult, but not too bad. You just have to line up the set screw and make sure to get the box thing on the manifold lined up correctly.

I haven't had the reg apart yet, but it can't be any tougher than my old 04 Speed reg or even the Maxflo on my Shocker. The barrel takes FOREVER to screw on or off though - I counted...17 twists (not full twists, but how many times I had to turn my hand to get it on.) The Shocker barrels are so much easier - something like 6 or less turns...

The ASA comes off relatively easy, but I don't like that I have to remove the grips and the battery to do it.

vikingshadow
02-18-2007, 04:10 PM
Ok, first official day of playing with it, so I figured I'd continue the review to include actual play. Not that it matters, but I played both woods and speedball today. It was pretty windy today - 15-30 mph with strong gusts all afternoon. Temperature at around 62 degrees, sunny and paint was relatively new.

I can tell you that I chrono'd a little low, but it was a bad ball to barrel match so I just adjusted the reg. Chrono was +/- 5 (300, 301, 301, 302, 297, 297, 301). Remember though, the reg still isn't broken in yet. I have probably finally shoot 2000 balls through it. I was using Nightmare (or Midnight, can't really remember as I traded it later on in the day), at PSP ramping at 20 bps for the gits and shiggles of it.

For some reason, there is just some paint that my particular Rail can't shoot. I was using old Nelsplatt before and it was exploding (I've come to the conclusion it wasn't chopping, but just exploding paint - not even barrel breaks). Same thing with the Nighmare I was using today. I would try to get off a string of paint, and it would just blow up. However, I threw some Scorch I had in laying around and didn't experience a single chop, barrel break or exploding ball. So, I traded for some Heat and sure enough, my breaking paint problem was solved!

I ended up using my stock Proto one piece barrel because the Un1tec was a bit small for the Heat. I have always said this and believe it even more today - this barrel is a great barrel! None of this "It's a decent stock barrel" business - it's a good barrel period. Nice placement of shots and though not necessarily "ball on ball" I was glad I used it because I know my shooting, and it couldn't all be me, that's for sure! ;)

My field owner wasn't prepared today so he only had 2000 psi fills. Even so, I was shooting 2 pods and a loader per 1000 psi (I never allowed it to go below 500 psi, so it never leaked on me.) If you figure the math, at 2 pods (180 balls each approx.) and a full loader (another 180 approx.), that's approx. 530-560 shots per 1000 fill. So, in a perfect world, that would be 2000 + shots on a 4500 fill. I know it really doesn't work that way, but it would be close! Not bad at all.

I've heard stories of inaccuracy and shoot down in the Rail, both of which I saw neither of today. I was ripping strings of 20 bps all afternoon and never saw shoot down one single time and most shots were very close to each other - not going to say ball on ball, but it's as close as any shooting I've done before. Didn't feel a bit of kick, and didn't experience much barrel rise either, but in the heat of the moment, I tend not to think of that stuff!

My overall thoughts on this gun is that it is an amazing gun for the price I paid, and probably would be amazing at more than that as well. I had several people asking me about it today and wanting to play with it, but I wouldn't let them because I like being the only guy at the field with a particular gun! :D

For the price, the ease of maintenance, the looks, the feel of the gun, the board, and the quality - I give it an 8.5 out of 10, but only because I think it's priced too low.

HelpDeskHustler
03-28-2007, 01:37 PM
The bft (boost forward technology) is actually really interesting to me, i know this probably isn't possible for anyone here, but a High speed camera of a dm or pm(non r) lpr driven bolt, side by side with the proto bolt would be interesting.

I'm just wondering if the rail seems to make up for its slow start by an exponential speed increase, or if the BFT design is crippled to a lower(no matter how much) cps by the slow start

vikingshadow
03-28-2007, 02:23 PM
I think of the Boost Forward Technology like the Level 10 bolt in the mag series of guns. The bolt cycle starts out somewhat slowly, but by the end of it's cycle it's a full force.

The solenoid is capped at 30 bps, and I do know for sure that it's capable of reachinig 26 bps without breaks or chops (with a properly sized barrel) without shootdown - I've seen a video that's floating around that shows that. There's another one where the owner lowered the dwell and shot 30 bps (with a pulse loader and RF chip, eyes off) but had a few blown up balls. I don't think the gun is handicapped at all by the BFT, at least in my opinion, of course!

I would also like to see a BFT bolt compared to a regular bolt video, but alas, my camera is barely digital let alone High Speed! Maybe it would quiet all the people saying the gun just CAN'T be any good without an LPR. Personally, I like the idea of not having to twiddle with an LPR - just one less thing to mess with on a gun.

HelpDeskHustler
03-28-2007, 02:28 PM
I think of the Boost Forward Technology like the Level 10 bolt in the mag series of guns. The bolt cycle starts out somewhat slowly, but by the end of it's cycle it's a full force.

The solenoid is capped at 30 bps, and I do know for sure that it's capable of reachinig 26 bps without breaks or chops (with a properly sized barrel) without shootdown - I've seen a video that's floating around that shows that. There's another one where the owner lowered the dwell and shot 30 bps (with a pulse loader and RF chip, eyes off) but had a few blown up balls. I don't think the gun is handicapped at all by the BFT, at least in my opinion, of course!

I would also like to see a BFT bolt compared to a regular bolt video, but alas, my camera is barely digital let alone High Speed! Maybe it would quiet all the people saying the gun just CAN'T be any good without an LPR. Personally, I like the idea of not having to twiddle with an LPR - just one less thing to mess with on a gun.
IMO the only real way dye can make the dm8 much smaller than the dm7 (since everyone knows they want to keep souping it every year, earning them some moneys) is by removing something, if this BFT proves to be a way to be gentler on the ball while still being fast, Removing the LPR could be a good move for them to make a super small gun. The rail is probably a great learning experience for them to tweak it, add some things and add some expensive stuff to make a dm8/"dmr"

vikingshadow
03-28-2007, 02:31 PM
I agree that if they get all the kinks out of it this year, then you might just see LPR'less guns replacing "outdated" models from this year. The sport is always moving forward!

Wouldn't it be funny if they did that? All the people calling the PMR a entry level gun not worthy of tournaments because of the "lack of an LPR and plastic parts" :rolleyes: would have to find a new reason to back up their previous claims that it's not any good!

DyNasty9
03-31-2007, 08:48 AM
I agree that if they get all the kinks out of it this year, then you might just see LPR'less guns replacing "outdated" models from this year. The sport is always moving forward!

Wouldn't it be funny if they did that? All the people calling the PMR a entry level gun not worthy of tournaments because of the "lack of an LPR and plastic parts" :rolleyes: would have to find a new reason to back up their previous claims that it's not any good!
you mentioned exploding paint right? wouldnt that be because there is no LPR. because the LPR basically allows you to adjust how hard or soft your shooting the paint. so hence no LPR, little tuffer on paint.

maybe?

vikingshadow
03-31-2007, 01:14 PM
No, I really don't think the LPR (or lack thereof) affects that in this gun at all - remember, it only has 150 psi going through it! Spyders have 850 psi and paint doesn't explode, so I think it's just the paint I was using. Lots of other people use this gun and report no chops or "exploding" paint. And since I switched the paint I was using and went to a larger bore barrel, I've had no issues with it either.

In my opinion, the LPR is a convenient excuse right now for people to cut down the PMR as an "Ion" type gun. With the way the boost forward design works and the way I understand it, the pressure on the paint is barely more than if you had to fine tune an LPR, without the hassle of messing with the LPR.

HelpDeskHustler
04-11-2007, 04:20 PM
I just got mine, and so did my friend.. and WOW, just WOW its like 10x better than my Ion, and it shoots pretty well w/ stock barrel and bad paint (not chrono'd). I'll have a better review later when i go play.

vikingshadow
04-12-2007, 03:47 AM
:thumbup: See, I wasn't lying! Not bad for any price, if you ask me. I'm actually really liking the UL frame on it now - I didn't realize it until I picked up my Shocker the other day. OMG! Huge difference in comfort and feel....

Edit - Added a couple pictures at the beginning of it with the UL frame on it....

HelpDeskHustler
04-13-2007, 04:51 PM
hey, can you run a poll in here maybe? you have one in the UL frame review.

BTW dynasty 9 - the lack of the LPR is compensated by using a slow start on the bolt, and exponentially growing the bolt's speed around halfway through the cycle by introducing air behind the tail of the bolt, which is what they call the "boost forward technology" simply having the HPR too high is probably what caused exploding paint, especially if it was still on the stock setting, out of the box mine was clearly shooting >300fps, and exploding paint, but when i lowered it i got shots that didn't curve and no explosions.

vikingshadow
04-13-2007, 06:33 PM
Like I said before, the paint I was using was old - nearly a year and I truly believe that's what cause the "exploding paint" syndrome.

I'll add a poll right now.

HelpDeskHustler
04-14-2007, 12:20 PM
Like I said before, the paint I was using was old - nearly a year and I truly believe that's what cause the "exploding paint" syndrome.

I'll add a poll right now.
actually i had the problem with new paint... i actually think it may be due to the stiff nubbin style detents, swapping them with dm6 spring detents should fix any problem.

mogar158
04-14-2007, 01:32 PM
the only thing i dont like about the gun is the trigger...its got a wierd pull on it

HelpDeskHustler
04-14-2007, 06:11 PM
the only thing i dont like about the gun is the trigger...its got a wierd pull on it
its ugly and hard for my middle to reach, but otherwise it's much better than any gun i've owned.

spitfirocks
04-14-2007, 08:37 PM
very well written review

HelpDeskHustler
04-15-2007, 09:51 AM
who is voting!? you can't vote unless you own the product

vikingshadow
04-15-2007, 02:52 PM
actually i had the problem with new paint... i actually think it may be due to the stiff nubbin style detents, swapping them with dm6 spring detents should fix any problem.

Ya know, now that you mentioned it, that could have been the problem. I never actually linked the two issues. I did actually got the DM6 detents with my first upgrades on the gun (much better, IMO and very cheap, but more efficient with the spring and ball shape) and haven't had a single issue with chops since then. So, yeah, that could have been it!

Mogar - I actually liked the trigger once I adjusted it to my preferences. I just didn't like the idea of the piece that gets the most abuse being rubber and plastic.

spitforocks - thanks!

This thing is driving me nuts! I just got back from the City and we stopped at a PB store but I didn't buy a single thing - there was nothing there for me to get! Everything I can get for my gun, I alreay have....bummer. Guess this means I need a new, different gun!

I wonder.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

HelpDeskHustler
04-16-2007, 01:01 PM
7 people own PMR's on these boards? wow :dodgy:

TheRedBarron
04-16-2007, 01:13 PM
One of the votes is me, yes I would imagine that 7 people have shot them at least. I owned one for 10 hours.

Oscum Guy
04-16-2007, 03:50 PM
dude why did my post get deleted.

HelpDeskHustler
04-16-2007, 04:10 PM
dude why did my post get deleted.
irrelevant maybe? IDK

on topic, technically the proto rail stock trigger is illegal in NPPL and probably PSP because of it's flexible nature. If you set the post travel a tiny bit past the microswitch (enough to be close as possible, while ensuring you wont stop too soon) you can pull the trigger, and continue pulling (harder than a normal pull) until the trigger flexes and bows the middle ******ds, causing the back to pull off of the microswitch before you release your finger. The return to a normal amount of tension on the trigger causes it to fire again, meaning the marker fires twice on 1 trigger pull, outside of an electronic ramp.

***for some reason i cant say the opposite of inwards***, thats the * you see above...

Oscum Guy
04-16-2007, 04:50 PM
irrelevant maybe? IDK

on topic, technically the proto rail stock trigger is illegal in NPPL and probably PSP because of it's flexible nature. If you set the post travel a tiny bit past the microswitch (enough to be close as possible, while ensuring you wont stop too soon) you can pull the trigger, and continue pulling (harder than a normal pull) until the trigger flexes and bows the middle ******ds, causing the back to pull off of the microswitch before you release your finger. The return to a normal amount of tension on the trigger causes it to fire again, meaning the marker fires twice on 1 trigger pull, outside of an electronic ramp.

***for some reason i cant say the opposite of inwards***, thats the * you see above...
wow, that would be so pointless to do, you could have probly shot about 10 shots walking before you could pull that off.
******ds 0utwards conquer teh filtars
o
u
t
w
a
r
d
s

i idont see how my post was irrelevant. vike said something about hinting him getting a new gun cuz he likes to upgrade. i said make one you know you want to, cuz that would let you buy all the aftermarket parts you want. totally relevant, if that is why it was removed.

vikingshadow
04-16-2007, 06:09 PM
Your post was deleted because this is the "Proto Rail Review," not the "talk about other things review." The topic of this particular thread should be centered on the Rail.

Sure, I mentioned I might pick something else up (a tiny sentence in a larger post that was related to the topic) but your complete post was off topic, which then spawned another post by someone else that was off topic, then you brought up your off topic post again, which resulted in this off topic post. 4 off topic posts that have nothing to do with the review.

Thought I'd clear that up before you spend too much time worrying about your missing post. Also, this may clear up any other discussion of any other off topics posts that will be deleted as well.

Let's stick to the topic in this thread, fellows!

HelpDeskHustler
04-17-2007, 05:51 PM
Vike, did you check out what I said about mechanically double firing on one pull?


In psp mode this is easily superior to actually pulling 1 time.

vikingshadow
04-18-2007, 03:36 AM
Hmmm, no, I haven't really touched it in a couple weeks. I may have to try it though, if I can find my old stock trigger! Sounds interesting though, and I haven't heard anywhere saying the trigger would actually be illegal. Has this actually been determined already?

HelpDeskHustler
04-18-2007, 04:26 AM
Hmmm, no, I haven't really touched it in a couple weeks. I may have to try it though, if I can find my old stock trigger! Sounds interesting though, and I haven't heard anywhere saying the trigger would actually be illegal. Has this actually been determined already?
All rules state that a trigger pull is defined as a pull and release, this shoots twice with one pull and one release, even in semi.

pballin77
04-23-2007, 04:39 PM
ya guys my friend has a proto rail black like that and i like it

stock trigger sucks but really overall a good gun but u need a new barrel unless u play front

good review!!!

HelpDeskHustler
04-28-2007, 06:43 AM
while dry-firing the rail inside, i noticed it's a bit louder than my ion, even when i use the similar barrels. It seems to be from air escaping upwards, out of the feed neck. I checked the oring and everything seems to be in tact, I think it's just that the ion has a much better or much longer seal on chamber.

Stock barrel is .690, too big for me, so i bought a .688. it works great on old paint though.

tygger91
05-12-2007, 10:39 PM
Do you know what Threads the Proto Accepts? Im planning to buy some barrels for my friend, I think its Angel Threaded, but I want to make sure.

Thanks,

Tiger

vikingshadow
05-13-2007, 03:53 AM
Barrel threads are Autococker, feedneck threads are Matrix. Angel threads won't work for it.

vikingshadow
06-11-2007, 04:41 PM
Ok, ongoing review and update...

The gun is pretty nice! Rips pretty hard (when I'm not having issues - see below for those.) In fact, with the UL frame on it, I seem to be able to hit my top finger speed with my left hand much easier than before. Right hand - well, let's just say I'm having a case of stiff fingers....Gun is still as accurate as ever.

I had been having problems with leaks from my PMR. I would air it up and 50 % of the time it would just leak and never really from one specific area. Then, at random times while playing my gun would just start going freaky and start leaking in random areas. A few weeks ago, I noticed that after using some Dow 55 on some can orings, I didn't get any leaks that whole day, which led me to think there was something else going on.

So, after reading up on it, I noticed that lots of people were changing all their orings in an attempt to stop their leaks, so I decided this weekend to just change all the orings I had and see what happened. As I mentioned before, I had found a place locally that had all the orings I needed at a much cheaper price (I bought 20 complete sets for less than a dollar per set!) so I figured what the heck?

While I was changing the orings, I noticed that the orings I bought were just a tad thicker and stiffer than the ones Proto sent with the gun. Not by much, but it concerned me so I checked and sure enough, the orings I bought were the correct diameter based on the sizes given in the manual (70 and 90) and the ones given with the gun were not the correct size. Even the outside diameters were a little different. I got to thinking this could have been my problem the whole time.

So, after changing all the orings (except one - I couldn't find a 2 mm oring) I noticed that the bolt didn't slide as easily back and forth due to the orings I used. It moved, but wasn't as smooth. I lubed it up pretty well, and inserted the bolt in the gun. When I put the air to it, there wasn't even the slightest leak! Not even that first pfffttttt that you get until the bolt pressurizes.

I finally managed to get my hands on an almost full pod of reballs, so I started shooting. I went through about 4 loaders full of reballs in less than 2000 psi, and not a single leak. Only one issue was when the bolt seemed to get stuck, but I shut the air and gun off and pushed it back in the breech a bit, it worked just fine.

Results: I can't be 100 percent sure yet, but I believe changing the orings from the Dye supplied ones to the aftermarket ones totally made a difference in my air issues. However, I'll know more when I play a full day with it. The only concern I have was the bolt stick I got that once...One thing's for certain, I have enough orings to last!

One other thing - my PMR had this noticeable "honk" from time to time with my PMR. It happened so much that the gun and I both have a new nickname at my field (I'm called "Goose" now, and my gun is known as "The Goose," hahaha! That's ok, it's kind of funny and it's not so bad, so I like it...) Anyway, when I changed the orings on my bolt, the honk has all but disappeared. Again, I'll know more when I play the next full day.

Conclusion - could it be that DYE used shoddy orings in some of it's guns? It's quite apparent that there is a difference in size between the two sets. Maybe this could be the cure for the persistant leaking issues many people are reporting and not really "user error" as previously thought.

Oh, btw - since I have the reballs now, and some air, I can get that video up that I promised awhile back! I'll try to get something going this week...

QAZ123
06-22-2007, 05:53 PM
Excellent review! Extremely helpful!

JB.

vikingshadow
06-22-2007, 06:49 PM
:thumbup: Glad I could help!

HelpDeskHustler
07-07-2007, 11:42 AM
what kind of back cap is that vike? the NDZ one I have sprays air out the hole every shot... like excessively

vikingshadow
07-07-2007, 03:37 PM
I alos have an NDZ back cap on it. It shoots out air every shot, but not what I would call an excessive amount - no more than what my shocker spews every shot.

As an update on the oring thing, I haven't lubed my gun since I changed the orings. I've shot it off an on over the past few weeks, which previously would have required an extra lubing. Not so now. It's my further conclusion that it was definitely crappy orings causing my leaks.

HelpDeskHustler
07-07-2007, 04:12 PM
It looks like the tail oring on mine got swollen from that crappy voltage pb lube, and it slipped off, causing the giant spray in my face every shot. oh... and i'm probably the first to do this here.... MY EYE RIBBON SNAPPED while i was speed teching my gun :rolleyes: