View Full Version : shootdown or decocking problem
01-14-2006, 04:06 PM
I have a spyder electra acs with a cp reg long with gauge, 15*assault block, stock valve, check it drop with on off, hpa. When I installed my upgrades i couldn't get fps over 230 even with my reg turned all the way to 500 and trying diff spring combos. I looked around online for a new valve and saw some good reviews for the nd hp valve. It was only 21 bucks so i figured what the hell. While I was waiting for it to arrive I played 2 full days and put about a case thru it. Aside from it shooting soft everything worked smoothly. It had a lot less kick and was more acurate. When the nd valve arrived I instaled it went to my ranch to chrono with my handheld. My first shot was 360. I was like woa. I turned down the reg and got 280 at around 300-350 psi. It was chronoing at 280, 282, 279 with a lot less kick and great increase in accuracy. The only thing else i wanted was a t-boad with eyes. I was really happy. My elation wore off real quick when I popped it to full auto and after about 3-10 shots it would burp and uncock. This keeps happening even with the reg back up to 500 and with diff spring combos. I took it to my local paintball store, Extreme paintball in Modesto, which is owned and opperated by Rich and Gina Telford of XSV. Their gun tech noticed that the cp reg was not keeping up causing it to burp. He put on a new short version of the cp reg and fired it at full auto and it did recharge fast enough to keep it cocked but he didnt fire it for very long, so im still not sure its the reg. It's brand new and worked fine before the new valve, and has only had about 3 cases thru it. I've read a few posts about recocking problems with the nd valve so im not sure what to do. Anyone have any sugestions, or should I just bite the bullet and send my reg to cp for a new one?:bawling: :headbrick:
Well I just put the stock valve back in and tried it with the nd pin and still had shootdown. When I put the stock pin in it recocks fine. The gauge needle barely moves with the stock valve and stock pin even at full auto. I dont understand whats causing the shootdown on the reg. The stock pin is huge compared to the nd. The nd valve has a bigger hole then stock and the pin is tapered for more flow. No matter what springs I used with the nd the needle on the gauge would drop like 150-250 psi every shot until it gets under 250 and decocks. I read about fileing the flat part of the pin to allow more flow but that doesnt make sense for my situation since the pin is already way smaller then the stock one. Do the flat parts on the pin have to face a certain direction? I also forgot to mention that the gun tech said the valve may be sucking too much air and starving the reg. If so what can I do about it? So I've fixed the recocking but now im back to the low fps problem which the new valve was suppose to solve. Has anyone heard anything about the sundragon dragonfly striker? Would a lighter striker help this situation?
01-14-2006, 07:33 PM
Only thing I can think of with the NDZ valve is that possibly there is more air flowing up into the breach and not enough going back to push the striker back. Do you understand that? I've never had a NDZ valve but from the pictures I've seen it doesn't look like the opening that goes towards the striker is any bigger than stock.
That brings up a question and this may sound like a dumb question but I'm trying to cover all the bases here. Do you have the valve in correctly? Larger opening to the front (facing towards the barrel).
Another question are you using HPA or co2?
As for the lighter striker. This may help. Since you aren't having a velocity problem and you're problem is more getting the striker back to lock into the sear, a lighter striker may do the trick. A combination of that and playing around with the springs may get you to where you need.
I hope I've help some and didn't confuse you more. Welcome to the forum, you won't find a better bunch anywhere on the net. Feel free to ask anything you want and if my suggestions don't help, let us know so we can help you figure something else out.
01-15-2006, 06:09 AM
Ok I kind of understand what your saying but I cant check hole size cause Im about to go play for the day. I'll check tonight and update.
My main problem seems to be shootdown. If I shoot slow enough it has no problems cocking at 350psi.
lol yes, valve is in the right way. I think ive covered the simple solutions from posting on pbreview and pbnation like o-rings and lube.
Im useing a pure energy 72/3000.
What strikers do you guys recomend. the Magnum AP, spyder/java titanium, nightstriker xl, or the dragonfly. Are there others?
01-15-2006, 06:47 AM
I think the favorites are the Nightstriker and the Dark Horizon Titanium. I had the DH Titanium Hammer in my TLX and I was running consistantly 285 fps, 200-220 psi, and I could rip as fast as I wanted to. I had a rocket valve though, which is about the only big difference in our setups. I had a Bob Long VA but they are pretty close in air flow so there isn't a big difference there.
01-24-2006, 03:16 PM
I think we are cursed with demons. or a lemon version of the Electra. MINE WONT STAY COCKED WITH PAINTBALLS IN IT. without paintballs, it shoots MAD fast. im going to my shop see what they say.. and if nothing. they might replace it if they cant fix it. And if not. HEY KINGMAN> GIMME A NEW GUN!! AHHG THIS MAKES ME SOOOOOOOOOO ANGRY!!!!>>
01-25-2006, 08:15 PM
u sound like u r having problems like i had.
i have been searching on other forums , and have come up to the conclusion that there is too much blowback , which is also creating a lot of turbulance around the bolt and breech area.
a lot of people have been saying that the stock kingsman bolts do create a lot of turbulance at high ROF.
very good reviews have been said about the Alamo bolt.
look at the ones with o'rings, and it will help get rid of most blowback and create suckion for the paintballs to enter more quickly into the breech, resulting in a faster feed. also a better velocity , due to no loss in air , which is normally lost in blowback. not to mention it will be more efficient due to more lowering of your pressure.
does this make sense ?
although my problems have been solved , or i thought i had,i do still get recocking issues as i have tested more 2nite.
im deffinately sure the problem is too much blowback.
i am goin to order 1 this week, and will let u know how i get on.
02-06-2006, 10:35 PM
:cussing: :headbrick: :headbrick: :headbrick: :cussing:
Arg. Played yesterday and could only shoot about 6-10 shots at high ROF before it burped and uncocked. I thought it was due to the fact that my halo b somehow blended a bunch of balls the second game of the day. It was a soupy mess. Ok I wasnt to annoyed I figured it was bound to happen some time. Took it apart and cleaned it as best i could at the field. I had to sit out about 6 games. It wasn't spotless but it was the best I could do at the field. Same with my marker. I did make sure to do a good job on the eyes. I still had the burping problem but I just slowed my ROF enough to get it to work. It was getting close to superbowl time but I wanted to get 1 more game in before I left. Sure enough my dam halo blends what looks to be about 10-20 balls worth of paint :eek: I was shooting marbalizers with a good paint to bore match. I bounced 10 off a table back at staging and only 2 broke so I know it's not brittle. It wasn't even the shell with black on it. I spent the entire first half of the superbowl completly breaking down and cleaning my marker and halo. I get up this morning and go to fire some in my garage and it still burps after about 6 shots. I was like wtf, this is the stock valve thats in. I had already played about 25 games since I put the stock back in from the ndz without any problems at all except not shooting higher then 250. I dry fired a few and watched the gauge on my assault block and it looked just like it did with the ndz in. Every shot would drop psi about 50-150 untill it hits 250 and burps. My first thought was I guess the tech at extreme was right and I got a bad cp reg. I fired a few more and this time watched the gauge on my drop and it was dropping psi just like the other one. Im not a expert or anything but a reg cant effect the air that hasn't reached it yet can it? When I tried a third time i watched in between both gauges and they both jump down at the exact same rate so whatever problem I have it's effecting my entire air setup from my tank on thru. I have a pmi 72/3000. I know next to nothing about hpa tanks except that they are better then co2. Do pmi hpa tanks have a reg on them? If they do, does anyone know if it could be causeing my decocking problems. It came to me brand new leaking out the fill nipple about 1000 psi a day. The leak ended up stopping on its own and I haven't had any other problems with it.
I don't understand why I blended so bad. Ive never had any problem with it before. I can only assume the two problems are connected but I have no idea how an air problem can cause me to blend so bad.
Two soupy hoppers, new decocking problem, Seahawks lost.
Yesterday gets my vote for worst day ever.:cloud:
02-10-2006, 04:53 PM
Im at a total loss right now. I gave up and took the cp reg off and put my stock gas thru back on. Im still getting shootdown! The shootdown is less but still decocks at about 10 shots on 3 round burst. It's fireing at 800 psi, where the hell is the shootdown coming from?! Ugh im so pissed right now i feel like chucking it in the trash and getting an ion like everyone else:mad:
02-11-2006, 02:08 PM
AHAHAHAHAHAHEHEHEHE wheeeze.....:roflmao: Im such a freaking tard. :stupid::foreheadslap: :rolleyes2: You know why I was getting shootdown? Because I didnt have my check it on/off screwed all the way on. I just turned it enough so that it was pressurized but not enough to sustain high ROF. With the check it super speedy drop it becomes really hard to turn when pressurized. I had to crank on it until the on/off knob was all the way screwed in but it works fine now. I got my reg and ndz back in. Shooting at 350-375 psi 280 fps. I feel like a photographer that cant figure out why his pictures didnt turn out cause he left the lense cap on lol. Thanks for all the help guys.
:yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :peace: