PDA

View Full Version : Another Potential Threat to Paintball


druid
12-04-2006, 04:41 AM
Posted with the pre-approval of TheRedBarron.

I would like to point you all towards a continuing threat to paintball. I am providing the link so you can understand what I am talking about.

There is a thread completely dedicated to this topic on Nation and I can only surmise that almost every member here is a member there too. I'm not posting that link, I'm sure many of you have already seen it...or will in the future.

The link I provide below is the PRIME EXAMPLE of WHY we should be doing the RIGHT THING! In my opinion, "bunkering no0bs, mistreating the no0bs, ET AL" is one of the reasons this jackass made his web page and he even depicts it. People like him only need a few news articles to make his point. This is WHY we tell you NOT to bunker unnecessarily; NOT to overshoot; NOT to shoot at cars; NOT to shoot at people on the street; and WHY those of us who have spent YEARS in this sport implore the young to "grow up" at times...

People...please...I know I posted in his "reply" page because I felt the absolute need to. If you must reply in it, PLEASE USE THE SAME VERBAL RESTRAINT I USED!!! The name is 'druid' with "From PA" in the url line and it's comment #123. As you read through...90% of the comments are the "Typical Nation Mentality" at it's absolute worst. In my humble opinion, with the comments that many have left...ARE FREAKING HELPING HIM AND PROVING HIS POINT! Don't fall into the Nation Mentality. If you feel the need to add a comment, use mine as a template.

Thanks for your time, druid

http://www.wallaceinfo.com/KirbyWallaceIndex.asp?action=soisaid&articleid=2 (http://www.wallaceinfo.com/KirbyWallaceIndex.asp?action=soisaid&articleid=2)

thechubbss12
12-04-2006, 04:51 AM
ahh i wouldnt call it a threat... its just another person who thinks they know more about a subject then they do....

And yes he is probibly a very seniale old man who doesnt understand "new age advertising"... Maybe he has never herd the phrase Sex Sells...

druid
12-04-2006, 05:58 AM
chubbs...you're probably right and it seems as if it's just the 'ramblings of a madman' but think about this ...and I mean deeply think -

It took one person...a paranoid conspiracy theorist...Senator Joe McCarthy...to convince waaaaaay too many Americans - and the Senate - to spy on...and think that...their family, friends and neighbors were Communists.

It took one person...Sarah Brady...to convince waaaay WAAAAAAAAAYY too many people across our Nation...that the desperate act of one disturbed individual...John Hinkley...should be the driving force to 'blanket repeal' handgun and other 'undesirable firearms' ownership, period.

It took one flunked-out art student, then prisoner...then Chancellor of his Nation...Adolph Hitler...to convince all of Germany that his way was the best, no matter what the horror he created - and to the point of where the people either participated willingly or looked the other way out of fear.

I could go on with examples all day...but if you think about it...truly think about it...it only took that one voice to garner more to their cause...then more, and on and on and on....to what has happened in what we call 'history.' Are we to be left "doomed to repeat" it? Or do we stop it now before it gets anywhere close to what I "for instanced?"

shunut
12-04-2006, 07:32 AM
This is one person's OPINION and I think we way out number him. I highly doubt that he will affect anything in the sport besides making us mad and want to play more just so we can laugh in his face. He is very one sided in his opinions and despite any good points anybody made against his views, in his mind they were wrong. I was going to post a response but its a waste of time. I think the smartest thing we could do is ignore him. Paintball will be around long after he is.

_Fett_
12-04-2006, 08:09 AM
druid,
nice update & nice research.
I've been out of the loop for a bit, but to be honest i'm a little surprised that more of the info. like what is presented by "said individual's site" isn't more common.
i'll admit that like you druid I see this (not as a potential threat, but) as a brewing threat. the media is a powerful tool to those who understand the "art of war" when working to sway the views of the public (masses) and most of the material he used comes from publications within the sport.
he is not simply condemning a lack of or neglect for safety, but is forming an attack against the sport itself (recball or speedball.
truly, maintaining proper safety is the key to allowing the sport to continue (and grow). it only takes a few instances of abuse towards other players (of any caliber) before the views of the public force give sway to the powers of those who can actually put an end to the sport altogether. it takes even fewer instances when the overshooting or option for absolute headshot is taken among those on the pro & semio-pro circuits, which have a greater potential to be televised ... reaching even more how would appose paintball.

Warnichek
12-04-2006, 08:27 AM
His opinions are so anactical that it is to the point of ridiculous. I agree there is to much crap with the women and the lack of clothes but to mature peole it is just an ad. Some of his observations about the evil name brand is just HIS way of thinking. I don't think about doing evil things or needing evil things when I see that.
I hope like some of you have stated that the media doesn't take this crap and run with it.
I posted a reply on the Reply in Masses part. Warnichek #60 reply.

druid
12-04-2006, 09:49 AM
This is one person's OPINION and I think we way out number him.

True in both respects...but it didn't really matter in the additional three examples I gave. Each example started with the idea and OPINION of one person...and got blown waaaaaaaay ot of porportion and I find that fact a very hard one to refute.

I highly doubt that he will affect anything in the sport besides making us mad and want to play more just so we can laugh in his face. He is very one sided in his opinions and despite any good points anybody made against his views, in his mind they were wrong. I was going to post a response but its a waste of time. I think the smartest thing we could do is ignore him. Paintball will be around long after he is.

Do we really want to run that risk? Regardless of what we think of him and his belief...this has the potential to become something monsterous if he knew how to handle his "thoughts' outside a simple website...or gain the support of one House member...or worse, Hillary Clinton, Rosie O'Donnell, Sarah Brady (of Antidgun, Inc) or people like them with power

TheRedBarron
12-04-2006, 10:08 AM
:up: regardless of whether or not this guy is serious it is good for us to know it is going on.

Moe
12-04-2006, 10:10 AM
Bahaha. That guy is a complete tool.

xafterlifex
12-04-2006, 10:58 AM
This guy is way out there. Reading some of the other articles on his site the main reason he is writing all this is because his sons play paintball and it has "ruined" them...but then again his sons could be great people, yet his extreme view of paintball has him thinking that just because they play they are terrible people and are going to hell. One person posted and made a good point that if it was football or something that was the cause of his sons not living to his standards then he would be writing an article on how terrible football is.

I've heard the childrens pastor at my church say before, "A little Bible can be dangerous." Meaning some people will read just a little bit of the Bible then go around(or make a website in this case) and start thinking they've got a Masters Degree in Theology and get everything all mixed up and misuse the Bible.

Overall the truth will always prevail....and the truth is that paintball is a great sport and one of the safest ones too.

vikingshadow
12-04-2006, 11:13 AM
Ok, here's a thought...and it's just my opinion, of course.

Maybe, and I'm not defending this guy at all, we're just seeing it through our own, already-in-the-sport-and-convinced-it's-a-great-thing, eyes. When people who AREN'T in the sport see a lot of the attitudes people have in the game these days, the way they talk and act, read some of the forums, and then the some of the other things this guy mentions, it DOES put us at risk. We have to see it through their eyes, not our own...

I mean, what if your mother read some of the stuff that was put on PBNation or other forums? Most people would be grounded for sure, and then there'd be no playing the game, period! A lot of you guys already know what I think about the "gangsta/mafia" attitude it seems this sport breeds, and I've made the comment that it'll be the downfall of the game before it helps it. I remember just a few years ago it was very evident that many were trying to get away from the "war-like" and "gangster" image the sport has, then in the recent years, we've accepted that attitude and it's become very prevalent. See ramping rules for a correlation - allow it with limits rather than ban it - well, because it was "allowed" at a lot of fields, the attitudes of several people are totally out of control anymore (see Lasoya and his "execution" for an example of a "high end player out of control...)

Maybe this is a wakeup call to the paintball world - shape up and become respectable to the REST OF THE WORLD and not just to our/yourselves. If we really want this to become a respected sport, you have to show respect in the first place. And that means explaining the sport logically and maturly(is this a word?) and not give reasons for them to hate us.

Some people are going to call me a sheep and what not, but that's ok - I happen to realize what it takes to get people to give in, and it's not acting like a bunch of e-thugs....I liken this attitude to the NBA of a couple years ago - and they managed to clean them up! Let's clean up our sport a little...

Ok, this guy is a nutcase. But I do think it should serve as a "get your act together, Paintball!" wake up call!

Maxx-Damage
12-04-2006, 12:12 PM
He needs to pull his head out of his hole and play a game.

and im laughing at him for posting that

Nenkitsune
12-04-2006, 12:57 PM
i dunno, it's just, people like him really bother me. I've always had a fasination with paintball, but i never dreamt of playing it (money was always, and still is, an issue) To me it's no more than a very advanced game of military tag (hide and seek/tag) the same tactics are used. The guys seems brash to me...very brash actually. and closed minded...anyways i'm late for work haha

shunut
12-04-2006, 02:39 PM
I think some people take stuff like this too seriously. I'm not saying that it is good for the paintball world to have people out there preaching stuff about paintball being bad or violent, but I hardly think this guy is going to change the paintball world. He claims to be a Christian yet he uses the Lord's name in vain in one of his responses. This guy is truly a crack pot, he is one sided and even states that unless you go to a Church of Jesus Christ (meaning he is probably Mormon) that you aren't really going to Church. So all you people who are Catholic, Baptist, Protestant, ect... aren't really going to church in his mind. In his mind they are simple social clubs. I hardly think this will go anywhere further than it already has.

Hob Hayward
12-04-2006, 02:47 PM
Silly religious people.

calebh
12-04-2006, 02:54 PM
heres what i posted as a comment on the original article.

paintball does have WAY too many players that have fallen into the "gangsta balla" lifestyle, but it does not represent all of us. one on ones RARELY end up with one player being bunkered. and many magazines attempt to limit or simply do not show advertisements with pornographic or near pornographic photos. i would suggest reading Action Pursuit Games to get a better picture of an honorable paintballer. there are, despite common appearances, quite a few of us. and the Nation is not exactly the best place to learn about the sport of paintball.

as a christian paintballer, i agree with you on a few points, namely the use of paintball products with "evil" names. while i do not refuse to use them, i avoid it when possible.

whatever you say to the contrary, to a true paintballer, your arguments are extremely naive and uneducated. to others who have never had any contact with paintball, im afraid your arguments would be extremely convincing. whatever your feelings, i strongly urge you to cut the crap.

to say that i am any less christian because i play paintball is absolutely absurd. to say that christians shouldnt evangelize on the paintball field is absurd. you ask "Must we be prostitutes to "bring the Gospel to the street?" Must we inject ourselves with heroin in order to preach to drug addicts?" i answer no, but we have to be there in the first place. you say "We preach the Gospel to everyone," but who's to say we don't?

if violence begins in the heart, i can honestly say i've never been violent while playing paintball. when i shoot my friend, im not thinking "DIE!" even when i go to bunker him, he understands the game, and we'll go to dairy queen or something after a good day's play and joke about it.

your quote:
"Simple test: If what you are preaching doesn't result in people asking you to leave, then you aren't preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom. You are preaching the Gospel of Man. Try it sometime."

please note:
jesus was asked to leave by the "holy" of his time. he was accepted by the sinners and outcasts. it may or may not still hold true.

the example given by jesus is NOT flee from world, he went and ate with sinners and tax collectors, while the "holy" condemned him for it. read what Paul says in 1 corinthians 5:9-13 as for what scripture says of this matter.

i notice you found the CPPA in your research... that t-shirt was made so people can relate. good luck relating to paintballers with your condemnations. jesus taught us to be LOVINGLY intolerant. i suggest reading Be Intolerant by Ryan Dobson.

you may be right when you say jesus would not play paintball. given that paintball is less than 30 years old, we will never know. would he at least spend time with them? almost definitely.

"There is, ultimately, no difference at all between paintball and World Federation Wrestling"
ROFL. except paintball is much less violent, not scripted, has refs whose decisions are respected, and is far more regulated. the showiness of both sports, if fake wrestling can be called a sport, is the only common thread i see.

you point out that paintball is an addiction, and i'll agree with you on that. but anything can be addictive, given the right situation. as long as my addiction to god takes precedence over paintball, i see nothing wrong with it.

quite honestly, you listened to the loud minority to get your information. spend time with players who have played more than just a few years. you might be surprised by their attitudes. someone said that stock class paintball is more of the gentleman's game of paintball. it really is. look for a stock class paintball tournament and attend it. you WILL be surprised by their attitudes.

i hope you read all that, and im sorry that at times it seems disjointed and confusing. im not the best writer, and i dont have time to edit and revise like i would like to. i also know that as a student, my take on the bible will probly carry a lot less weight than yours, but i stand by my interpretation. in the end, we've both been saved by christ, and that's what matters.

mv540
12-04-2006, 03:17 PM
well iīm a christian guy, but I hardly dont see paintball as evil:dodgy:
I mean, it can be violent, you know gettin shot at each other,
but also there is karate, that is fighting; aslo hockey, it can be violent, but I think each of us choose to be violent or not...as I see bunkering isnīt a bad thing, itīs just like a pounch in the jaw (boxing), that you use for knock out your opponent, but itīs all part of the sport.

Also, you may say, that some paintballers get outta control, but its all part of the sport, you have all the adrenaline going on, and sometimes, you lost your mind, but later, there is the hands shakin at the end of the game, and stuff.

claustrophobia9
12-04-2006, 03:39 PM
over-reacting wacko... the world is full of them

mv540
12-04-2006, 03:49 PM
heres what i posted as a comment on the original article.



if violence begins in the heart, i can honestly say i've never been violent while playing paintball. when i shoot my friend, im not thinking "DIE!" even when i go to bunker him, he understands the game, and we'll go to dairy queen or something after a good day's play and joke about it.





yeap, thatīs it, I dont take it like DIE, or anything like that, I take it as part of the sport.

bigred76
12-04-2006, 06:58 PM
Evil is evil, guys. *pushes glasses farther up nose* [/nerd voice] :dodgy:

QFT to Claus. He's the kinda person that's a problem, not us ballers.

calebh
12-04-2006, 07:17 PM
he has biblical reasons for that. i cant remember the verse, but even if he takes it VERY literally, he may be right. as for the rest of it, welll....

vwjimmy
12-04-2006, 08:48 PM
My reply:
Another fine example of the lack of willingness to look at the entire picture of any subject, Paintball or other. As a so called christian, you are not being very 'Christ-like'....Jesus did not come as an instrament to be used by you or anyone else to judge others or what they do. You opinion is fine, but you come to conclusions are biased. I am sure that you can find the 'violence' and 'pornography' in any activity you deem improper, however, a sport that is expressly engineered utilizing levels of safety not often found in one is a poor target at best. I find it hard to invision you writing the same kind of article about Baseball for example, even though it involves using a bat, requires no face, eye or ear protection, pits one team against another, uses a ball that is very hard and travels at high rates of speed, and results in thousands of injuries a year. I am sure that I can find simular advertising and websites for it and many other sports. And as for the trademarks and advertising....well, welcome to America. Here we are free to express ourselves wheather or not it offends you just as you are welcome to write your article. I personally have monitored the intake of information to my children since they were born (17 and 18) and never once charged someone else with doing it. 'Evil' is a perception, and yours is skewed, probably by your lack of supervision of your own children. Here in the US, we are free to express ourselves in many ways. I personally do not like many of the quotes you have listed either, but I respect the rights of the people that made them. I do not nor will I ever judge an activity by the actions of some of its partisipants. By scanning, quoting, and posting this article, you have become what you preach against. Paintball is not to blame here, you are. Get to the job of monitoring your children and leave me to mine. Stop condemming paintball because you don't like the advertising of some of its marketers. Take a stand against posts like this one that perpetuate the very thing you seem to abhore.

Nenkitsune
12-04-2006, 11:14 PM
ummm....this "kirby" guy tricked us. he friggin made that site to test a new bandwidth meter!!!
http://www.wallaceinfo.com/ArticleComments.asp?cTable=tbl_So_I_Said&cArticleID=1
look up a bit, you see BTESTING, then some numbers, then him saying "Sorry. It was just a ploy. Needed some willing participants to check a new bandwidth meter.

Thanks for your help." wtf....

and it did seem weird to me once he said he had made a pdf of the pbn forums. wait...who has the bandwidth or time to be able to archive the ENTIRE PBN XP

silentpaintballfreak
12-05-2006, 06:26 AM
hmm. that dirty low life punk.

calebh
12-05-2006, 01:52 PM
lets play the limbo! how low can you go? oh wait, kirby already wins!

vikingshadow
12-05-2006, 03:01 PM
Hahaha - I was reading this and it hit me - the guy that wrote this is from Tulsa. I tend to visit the politics forum of PBN to see what idiot crap is being written about at that time, and there's this preacher from Tulsa that posts there quite a bit. Could this be the one and only X-Paint?

Nenkitsune
12-05-2006, 03:34 PM
the guy who made the post about it on pbn is LWKirby, but he could be using a diffrent name

pbgeek09
12-05-2006, 05:02 PM
Silly religious people.
People can be religious and play paintball I know a lot of Christians who play paintball including me!:p

silentpaintballfreak
12-05-2006, 05:18 PM
you should kick his ass vike! lol. jk. violence is not the answer.:rolleyes:

EDIT; Just visited his comment part again. I posted and even looked to make sure it worked. maybe it was just a server problem but i dont like this guy. lying sack of hog swit

EDIT #2: Again. It doesnt show up.

vikingshadow
12-05-2006, 06:13 PM
Nah, I'm just a little 12 year old girl - he'd probably just laugh at me!

Seriously though, you guys need to read what I posted earlier in this thread. I honestly think we, as a sport, need to clean ourselves up. Believe it or not, a lot of non paintball people in this part of our state feel the exact same way he (the guy on that website) does...no lie! Example - people around here actually thought when our field went up, we were one of those cult/militia thing's, practicing to overthrow the government. They even had a couple of Highway Patrol planes doing overflys just to check up on us for a month or so...

I'm pretty certain that a lot of people around the country are seeing, what in most sports anyways, would be considered poor sportsmanship, bad attitudes and nothing but a group of hoods trying to "kill" each other...it's really up to us to portray the sport in the best light possible, but I feel too many people show it in the most negative, "kiss-off, I don't care about anyone else," manner possible. Sure, that's not the majority of the players, but think of your own school or other experiences. Who gets/got the most publicity and attention shown to them? The good guys doing what they needed to do, or the ones complaining and causing problems? Yup, you know who I'm talking about!

Anywho - it does give someone something to think about...

Jimmyd24
12-06-2006, 12:14 PM
i love how they take the brand name evil so seriously, those are the people that dont want their seventeen year old kids to see a R rated movie

splater18
12-06-2006, 02:24 PM
Wow all I can say is Wow thats is the most single sided thing i have every read and the boxes you have to check before you read that was agrevating (take the word yay and put a g somewhere in the front and you'll get the word i was reallly thinking of) any way Evil is just a company and all those things about porn arent true
i do see the bad attiudes the pros have with cheating and such but that was not even mentioned.

this whole article is a yay with a G in front

durrell
12-06-2006, 02:32 PM
I hate to say it, but he brings up good points. The stuff that was posted in his comment section is evidence of what 90 percent of this sport is compiled of. Until players make it a point to stop acting like 10 year olds, the sport will stay where it is today. Now as for his relation of paintball to Christianity.. let's look at it this way. He wants to go away from the "evil" of paintball and its participants. Hm, alright. Well since paintball is evil I suppose places like Wal-Mart and outlet stores are off limits since most publicly endorse homosexal marriage. I suppose you can't drive Fords because they also endorse it. There are so many extremes one could go to that make him look like a moron, but he is the perfect example of an extremist Christian that gives the rest of us Christians a bad name. He takes the Bible and Christianity out of context and takes it as he wants and preaches it as he wants it to come out, regardless of if it's true or not.

Don't let him get under your skin. :up:

Oscum Guy
12-06-2006, 03:04 PM
ok have of those pics had nothing to do with paintball? i have never seen that kinda stuff on paintball websites.(ok just one thing, but very minor.). whats this guy got against the evil brand? the name? and what is whatsoever?