PDA

View Full Version : america's elite missing from military service


calebh
11-12-2006, 10:35 AM
http://christianpost.com/article/20061112/26000.htm

to be politicaly incorrect, since thats what seems to get people talking, maybe kerry's botched joke wasnt completely untrue...

here come the flames...

anywho, anyone remember the part of michael moore's documentary farenheit 9/11 where he goes and asks congressmen why their children didnt go and fight in the war they supported so wholeheartedly? interesting when the christian post comments on the same thing, if not quite so accusingly

discuss, in a civil manner, por favor

Moe
11-12-2006, 10:47 AM
Tell me, if you had the chance to inherite a million dollar company or graduate from yale would you pick the military over that? I sure as hell wouldn't. I do not blame them one bit. The military is a great way for lower income people to have a fantastic career. Does that make them stupid? NO WAY. And I am not saying that only lower income people are in the army. I am just using that as an example. But if I had the choice of multi million dollar career, or a amazing education vs. joining the army it would not be a hard choice for me. From what you are saying, what I see is that you think rich people are smart and poor people are stupid. I would have to strongly disagree with you on that.

And the comment about Kerry's botched joke...You want to keep this civil so why would you even say that? It is only going to make people dislike you.

edit: and one more thing...being educated does not mean you are smart. And being smart does not mean that you are educated.

marvin-martian
11-12-2006, 10:50 AM
i heart moe

08Lud08
11-12-2006, 11:01 AM
Tell me, if you had the chance to inherite a million dollar company or graduate from yale would you pick the military over that? I sure as hell wouldn't. I do not blame them one bit. The military is a great way for lower income people to have a fantastic career. Does that make them stupid? NO WAY. And I am not saying that only lower income people are in the army. I am just using that as an example. But if I had the choice of multi million dollar career, or a amazing education vs. joining the army it would not be a hard choice for me. From what you are saying, what I see is that you think rich people are smart and poor people are stupid. I would have to strongly disagree with you on that.

And the comment about Kerry's botched joke...You want to keep this civil so why would you even say that? It is only going to make people dislike you.

edit: and one more thing...being educated does not mean you are smart. And being smart does not mean that you are educated.I agree, I couldn't have said it better.

claustrophobia9
11-12-2006, 11:16 AM
moe is the man.

also by saying "elite" would insinuate that rich people are better than poor people, which i also disagree with.

Halucin8
11-12-2006, 12:21 PM
Well I am a former Marine and I was college prep all the way through high school. I took trig in high school which wasn't a common subject for us uneducated types back then. yet I still went to serve my country for 2 reasons. 1 my parents had 3 kids and 2 of which were in college already and couldn't afford a third. 2. The first desert storm was going on and I didnt' want to see my brothers both possibly lose a chance at college education so I volunteered. Where do I fit in with your statement?

uneducated idiot or what?

Sandman_Bravo
11-12-2006, 12:49 PM
It aint me, it aint me.
I aint no senator's son, no!

MVS1
11-12-2006, 01:13 PM
Well heres my two cents....Since I am in the Military (Proudly serving in the USAF) I might have a few things to contribute. First of all I spent 9 years in the US Navy as an Electronics Technician and decided to hang it up for a civilian career making $57K a year. Now that may not seem like much to some, however it was pretty impressive to a High School gradutate with nothing more than the equivalent of a 4 year electronics engineering degree (that oh by the way I completed in a year and a half) paid in full by the US Navy. After spending three years in the civilian sector where I found myself more and more dissatified with my career and what I was doing. Not because I couldn't "hack it", but becasue each day I realized that there was something missing. I finally figured out what was missing and on 12 Aug 2001 I rejoined the armed forces this time with the USAF. I figured this was a safe bet, its the "chair force", isn't that what we called it. Well was I ever wrong, I'll never forget watching those airliners crashing into the WTC and pentagon and the feeling of rage I felt. Little did I know that in less than a week I would be doing something about what happened, I found myself on a C5 enroute to a region I never even heard of, not able to tell my wife or kids where I was going or when I would be back. Since 9/11/2001 I have been to Afganistan, Uzbeckistan, Krygechistan, hell u-pick-a-stan. To Korea for a year without my family and recently to Baghdad, Iraq. What does this mean you ask, not everybody joins the military because they have no other viable alternative, some of Us join because we understand things like Honor, Duty, Commitment, Service before Self, I do it because I love what I do. I have seen the world and would not trade my experiences for anything.

Do me and my thousands of brothers and sisters in arms a favor, when you see us in the Airport in our DCU's getting ready to head out, to fight someone elses fight for them because they can't; when you see us in our uniform at 8 o'clock p.m. in the grocery store check out line after a long days work for less than minimum wage, whenever you make our acquaintence, just a simple smile and maybe a thanks. Please keep us out of your political agendas, out of your online debates, out of any agruement that could damage what we have worked so hard for, Our US Armed Forces. I respect your right to freedom of speach, I serve everyday to make sure all americans have that right, just do me a favor and keep us out of it. Thanks.

Sandman_Bravo
11-12-2006, 03:39 PM
^Here here!

Recon by Fire
11-12-2006, 04:50 PM
anywho, anyone remember the part of michael moore's documentary farenheit 9/11 where he goes and asks congressmen why their children didnt go and fight in the war they supported so wholeheartedly? interesting when the christian post comments on the same thing, if not quite so accusingly


Both should go ask the Senator's sons and daughters why they do not serve, not their parents. Your parents cannot make you enlist.

True enough the military can be a great resource for lower income enlistees. This does not however mean they are stupid. We have a high-tech military these days, not exactly the place for the intelligence impaired.

Also coming from affluent situations does not preclude you from considering military service as a viable option. There are many upper class families that have long and proud military traditions. Look at Pat Tillman, was he a stupid poor loser?

My company was created, owned, and run by a guy who came from a rich family; he was a millionaire first, then chose to become a USN Seal. Neither a stupid fellow and riding the family coat tails of affluency.

And Kerry is an elitest snob, who made his fortune the old fashioned way...he married it!

vikingshadow
11-12-2006, 05:31 PM
I NEVER watch any of the crap that Michael Moore puts out....it's totally biased, and whether I agree with him or not on HIS PERSONAL VIEWS, I wouldn't watch it for that very reason. His "documentaries" are nothing more than long advertisements put on film, designed to make him look better and the person he's "exposing" look bad. In my opinion, he does more to hurt our country than to open eyes to corruption or whatever.

I'm not arguing politics here - I never mentioned whether I agree with him or not. In fact, I'm wondering why all the damn political threads are popping up in here lately. What we had 2 years ago was plenty, in my opinion.

Edit - since when does a parent's political affiliation have to do with their children's military status? No where in the world does it say they have to join because their parents agree with the war. Shoot, if I were in congress, I wouldn't want my children to fight in a war any more than I do right now! I honestly don't see what this has to do with anything that Kerry said. Kerry screwed up a joke, just like he screwed up just about everything else he's done, and I still think he would have been a HUGE mistake had he been voted in as president.

The old saying, "Those living in glass houses should not throw stones" really fits here. He tried to make the president look bad, messed it up, and pissed a lot of people off including his own party. He lost an election, almost cost this election (had it been further back in time, I think it would have been a bigger problem than it turned out) so I suspect the Dems will tell him to shut up and get out. I'd say he's pretty close to being finished...Anyway, they have to focus on the devil Hillary now...

Laura Bush for 2008!

DRAGON
11-12-2006, 05:47 PM
...Anyway, they have to focus on the devil Hillary now...

Laura Bush for 2008!

Ooooooooooooooooowee....cat fight! - :D

claustrophobia9
11-12-2006, 05:55 PM
if hillary becomes president (ill be pissed but in college) and isnt impeached in the first term im moving to canada (out of college), you can quote me

MadMan66
11-12-2006, 06:29 PM
Tell me, if you had the chance to inherite a million dollar company or graduate from yale would you pick the military over that?
well, Pat Tillman (R.I.P.) for the AZ Cardinals lift the NFL to go to the military. some people love their country and would be honored to fight for it, even if it means you lose millions of dollars. just thought i'd mention that

calebh
11-12-2006, 07:00 PM
read the article, guys. at the very least, i was right that the kerry comment would get ppl talking. (and very sarcastic generalizing remarks about my generalizations)

the point of the article is that fewer people like pat tillman are enlisting.
America’s most privileged youth should remember something their ancestors well understood: To whom much is given, much is expected—and that applies to serving their country.

Moe
11-12-2006, 07:07 PM
well, Pat Tillman (R.I.P.) for the AZ Cardinals lift the NFL to go to the military. some people love their country and would be honored to fight for it, even if it means you lose millions of dollars. just thought i'd mention that

I am fully aware of Pat Tillman. I am just saying in general many people would choose other careers before the military. I don't think that should at all be look down upon.

bigred76
11-12-2006, 10:07 PM
:yeahthat: Hell, I was there when my H.S.'s football team TROUNCED his H.S.'s football team right before the ceremony for his death. I know all about Tillman.

I personally prefer to not fight in the military, not because I am a "coward," but because I do not have it in me to go to another country and kill people. I am not like that. Other people, however, are. I salute them, but not envy them. "To each his own" is the saying in my mind as I type this. I prefer to not do what they are doing and enjoy myself by building houses and other essential commercial structures as a Carpenter. They protect their country through whatever means necesary, even if it costs them their life. Neither is better than another in my mind, just how one chooses to live.

As for Micheal Moore... **** that dumbass, fat muck-raker. He doesn't know fries from pancakes. The only "pull" he has is through the general public, which is too STUPID to realize that they can think with their own brains and not his.

Caleb, I understand why you posted this article, but please next time let's skip the political/moral discussions. They hurt my head. :(

Gunny462
11-13-2006, 03:33 AM
I believe only 3 past Presidents never served in the military.

durrell
11-13-2006, 05:10 AM
I am fully aware of Pat Tillman. I am just saying in general many people would choose other careers before the military. I don't think that should at all be look down upon.

It's not "looking down" upon you, or anyone else. It is simply pointing out that 99 percent of the time a politician's or very upper class citizen's child is much less likely to go into the Military than someone who is from a normal working/middle-class family. I really don't understand how you can pull "poor people are stupid, rich people are smart" or "I feel like you're looking down on me for not going into the military" out of anything said in the story. It is talking about UPPER CLASS people. We are the middle class (except claus :rolleyes:)

Halucin8
11-13-2006, 09:55 AM
The article may not have said that but the reference to kerry's comment/badjoke did. I you wanted a discussion on the article i would have left out kerry's comment and just asked opions on the article. The military has been a volunteer force for ever and the draft for vietnam was the only time in our history that it wasn't. The proudest moent of my life was boot camp graduation and i wonder what would have happened if i never went to boot camp. And went to college instead. I would hope i wouldn't have ended up like my oldest brother. who damn near supports socialism. I know he didn't get that from my parents.

SoldierzHonor
11-21-2006, 09:35 PM
on the lighter side...

http://www.usvetdsp.com/kerry_help_us.jpg

SharpObjects
11-22-2006, 06:10 AM
You know what? Before school let out for me this week, I took the ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery). Anyone joining the military has to take it, and our military friends here know that. But I found it interesting that you only need to score a 30/100 to be in Army infantry. It seems the Army has lower standards.

Recon by Fire
11-22-2006, 05:31 PM
It seems the Army has lower standards.


There are some low standards actually, but not restricted to the Army. USMC and USN rival them. AF is doing a bit better at the lower spectrum.

SoldierzHonor
11-27-2006, 09:47 AM
I found it interesting that you only need to score a 30/100 to be in Army infantry. It seems the Army has lower standards.

This is true, but you'll find some of the higher GT scores in the infantry. The GT score is what the army looks at for the 30/100. If you have below a 100 GT score, the army will put you in classes to assist you to further your career and help you in the long run until you reach the 100 mark. You cant reclass, go to certain schools, etc. without a GT score of 100 or even a 110.