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View Full Version : Cocker not cycling quickly


Hob Hayward
11-11-2006, 06:35 AM
So I bought a used cocker as a few of you know, and now I'm gettin problems with it. Acctually its been a problem since I got it. FIrst it wouldn't cycle, then the velocity was way too low, and now the final problem is that it won't cycle faster than maybe 5 cps. The only things I can think that would be cuasing the problem would be low recharge from the LPR, restricitve microline or the ram is messed up. The LPR is set higher than need be from what I've been told, because its impossible to pull the bolt back without an airline coming off. It was suggested that possibly my timing rod on the 3 way is off aswell?


Any and all help is much appreciated.

Gee Tee
11-11-2006, 09:15 AM
Hi Hob,
You mention the velocity is low - are you sure there's sufficient pressure getting into the gun from the bottle? There are other factors that effect cocker velocity such as 3 way timing, springs and hammer/valve combo, but it could be a restriction in air supply. I run a 6mm bore micro hose on mine and it flows plenty. You don't mention if you are running an intermediate HP reg on the gun. I've a WGP ergo reg on mine set to around 600psi. Tried lower pressures but had to run silly spring combinations to get velocity up & the consistency also went AWOL.

If input pressure & air flow is ok you could swap the LPR for one that's known to be 100%, and If that doesn't cure the cocking problem try swapping ram too. You don't really need much pressure on the cocking operation - 100psi is about the norm. I rarely have to turn the tickler LPR on mine up more than a 1/3 of it's range.

If the 3 way timing's way out this can effect cocking & velocity. When the gun re-cocks too early in the trigger pull the rear block meets the hammer rod coming in, and effectively stops the hammer mid stroke. I usually set the hammer pin to give a fairly late release, and then fine tune 3 way rod to re-cock rear block as soon as possible without catching hammer rod.

If 3 way is set late it'll either give a very slow cycle rate, or if miles out may even stop the gun recocking all together . I can recommend the Hollowpoint 3 way distributed by Belsales over here in the uk. It has a very short throw, is a doddle to set up and gives a really quick cocking action. All my cockers run them at present :cool:

Belsales and details of Hollowpoint can be found here...

http://www.belsales.co.uk/pa.htm

Hob Hayward
11-11-2006, 11:07 AM
It has an 06 black magic reg on it, didn't come wit ha gauge so I'm not sure what pressure its running at, but if I adjusted it either way it would have recocking problems. I adjusted the timing a bit today and it seemed to be better at recocking. I shortened the timing rod so it cycled later in the pull, which also kept it from leaking out the front of the 3 way in the beggining of the pull. It seemed to help a bit, but the nut that holds the timing rod in place fell out and I lost it :(. I need to get a valve removal tool so I can acctually maintain the gun probably some new microline and a new lock nut.

Thanks so far. Is there any way to avoid rollouts other than a barrel kit?

Muddytaco
11-11-2006, 12:05 PM
Could you post full specs of gun? it would help knowing what parts are on it.

First thing you should do is set hpr reg to 350 and time everything from there.

Hob Hayward
11-11-2006, 12:31 PM
Well from what I was told its an 04 prostock with 06 black magic pneums, an 06 black magic in line reg and an 06 mech swing frame. However the guy who sold it to me wasn't exactly sure about that. I guess I could put the black magic on my imagine to test the output from the reg. Although, my imagine isn't working right for some reason right now, but thats an entirely different story.

Gee Tee
11-11-2006, 01:41 PM
It has an 06 black magic reg on it, didn't come wit ha gauge so I'm not sure what pressure its running at, but if I adjusted it either way it would have recocking problems. I adjusted the timing a bit today and it seemed to be better at recocking. I shortened the timing rod so it cycled later in the pull, which also kept it from leaking out the front of the 3 way in the beggining of the pull. It seemed to help a bit, but the nut that holds the timing rod in place fell out and I lost it :(. I need to get a valve removal tool so I can acctually maintain the gun probably some new microline and a new lock nut.

Thanks so far. Is there any way to avoid rollouts other than a barrel kit?

If it's an 05/06 spec cocker you may get away with running it at lower pressure than mine. Depends how well the internals like the valve flow - i've always struggled much below 500psi. I actually leave my springing set and adjust the velocity on the HPR, even though it has the rex dialer (belsales) kit installed.

I've also lost a few grubscrews from 3 ways in the past, and now put a small dab of locktite on them once i've got the timing bang on.

Roll outs can be a problem as the detent won't hold the ball once it's chambered by the bolt. One way to reduce it is go for a 1 or 2 piece barrel, or adapter thats tight as possible on the paint you are using

Hob Hayward
11-11-2006, 03:02 PM
As I think I may have said, when I adjust the HPR it stops cycling for whatever reason, could be the reg is kinda messed up, maybe? I know the person who had it before me knew very little about autotockers so he may never have oiled it. I've put a bunch of oil in the asa and shot it through, but it didn't seem to help much.

I'm considering sending it to WGP for fixing, and getting the guy who sold it to me to pay for that, considering he claimed it was in perfect working order when he sold it to me. Anyone ever sent their gun to WGP to be teched?

Hob Hayward
11-12-2006, 07:09 PM
Images for those who wanted them:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/hobhayward/00001-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/hobhayward/00004.jpg
And the last one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/hobhayward/00005.jpg

Gee Tee
11-17-2006, 10:37 AM
I still think you could do with a gauge on the HP reg to determine what pressure is actually reaching the gun. Unless you can verify the outlet pressure is a/high enough & b/consisent it'll be hard to establish if other faults on the cocker are due to a faulty HPR, LPR, bad timing set-up or combination of all three.

That body kit looks like an 2003 WGP kit by the way (same as mine) so possibly not an 05/06 model as you were told by vendor?

Hob Hayward
11-17-2006, 11:39 AM
I was told that it was an 03 prostock, but the selle wasn't sure. I figured it was 04 because PBreview doesn't have an 03 prostock listed. I'll try the black magic reg on my imagine to check pressure etc.

Nenkitsune
11-18-2006, 01:19 PM
how would you check the pressure by putting it on yoru imagine?
oh, i found a couple bob long autocockers on ebay for 200, they look like they're in good shape. i think i might buy one

Team Ramrod
11-18-2006, 03:20 PM
I would assume he has a gauge on his imagine that will tell him the pressure of the regulator.

Nenkitsune
11-18-2006, 04:27 PM
hmm, didn't think of that. i've always been used to the gauges only being on the reg. forgot the va could have one too