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View Full Version : Spyder Project.


Opteron-O3
11-07-2006, 08:35 AM
Well, I've seen attempts on putting a spring between the valve and striker to return it with the aid of air pushing it back. But what about this?

Here's a video for those of you who like animations.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/Opteron-O3/th_Project.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/Opteron-O3/?action=view&current=Project.flv)

Here are pictures.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/Opteron-O3/ani1.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/Opteron-O3/ani2.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/Opteron-O3/ani3.jpg

What I'm trying to do is replace the Spyder Valve Pin, with a Timmy Valve Pin that doesn't have the slots for blowback, and use the spring to return the striker instead of using the blowback air pressure. The spring will have to be strong enough to push the striker back, but light enough to allow the striker to push the pin forward to allow air in the valve. Of course I'll also have to modify the main spring to allow a faster recock but to be strong enough to push the opposing springs.

What I'm looking to achieve is getting a lower pressure with less kick. While still being a sear tripper Spyder.

Now before starting this, I want to get some input and help from others. Because of what I see, the cycling might be slower since it's only spring assisted. But that's not a problem, I'll figure out a way without having to use air to blow the striker back. Input would be appreciated. :)

Ace24
11-07-2006, 09:07 AM
Idk if its going to make that big of a difference with the recoil... but other then that... try it out. Might work. The springs would be hard to figure out though.

camo911
11-07-2006, 09:42 AM
Looks like a good concept, i think it would help with low pressure, but less kick idk. Try it out, it might work better than expected :)

Opteron-O3
11-07-2006, 09:56 AM
This was answered quite nicely. But this won't be quite as possible as I thought it be.
You could use a T1 valve, valve spring, and return spring probably. This would never work though, I hope you know that. Why?

Ideal firing sequence:

1. Spring 1 pushes striker forwards.
2. Striker hits valve pin.
3. Spring 2 returns striker back to sear again.

Actual firing sequence:

1. Spring 1 pushes striker forwards.
2a. If spring 1 is stronger than spring 2, striker hits valve pin.
2b. If spring 1 is not stronger than spring 2, striker will not hit valve pin.
3a. Because spring 1 is stronger than spring 2, spring 2 cannot return the striker to the sear because it cannot compress spring 1.
3b. Because spring 1 is not stronger than spring 2, the striker never hits the valve pin and striker returns to the sear without firing the gun.

Although I am trying this concept, but with the same spyder valve pin. It should work this way, like camo said, it will probably lower pressure some but we'll see.

Hob Hayward
11-07-2006, 11:13 AM
One problem, you cannot get the force to recock by having two opposing springs. Say you have ten uints of force pushing the striker forwards towards the valve. 1 unit is lost from friction, you hit the opposing spring, even if you got the same ammount of energy applied to it back, you'd lose another unit of force on the way back, which will end up with 8 units of force, not enough to force the spring back.

Other problems arise aswell, the dwell would be messed up. this is the equivalent of haveing a really really stiff valve spring, dwell would be very short. Even if you attached the spring to the valve pin, your dwell would end up being too long.

Theoretically it might work, but in realit you cannot get out as muich energy as you put in, otherwise we'd be able to make perpetual motion.

colonel_moo
11-07-2006, 11:54 AM
good idea, but physics says no...

pt_22
11-07-2006, 11:27 PM
I first read this and fell in love with the idea!! sounds damn great!!

but then before i had even read any of the replies it had occured to me that this system cannot continue to osciallate as you intend without getting some external force added...

then reading what others have written i realised the correct term.. Perpetual motion. It is beautiful in theory, but will never work..

Great concept though, keep working on it. If you could somehow vary the strength of one of the springs at different stages of the marker firing it could work. This could mean driving something off the same circuit as the solenoid in the trigger.. Not really sure what though..

Opteron-O3
11-08-2006, 05:37 AM
I'm thinking of combing air/spring assist but cutting some of the air supply and adding a spring between the valve and striker.