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Sandman_Bravo
11-01-2006, 02:48 AM
I try to stay away from discussing politics and religion, but...
John Kerry said in an address (and I paraphrase) that if you don't study, do well scholastically, and go to college then (quote) "you'll get stuck in Iraq!"
This, I feel, is a slap in the face to our troops. It would suggest that our troops are of lesser intelligence and therefore stuck in the military. Discuss.

shunut
11-01-2006, 04:23 AM
So if that statement is true, why isn't he there? because with a statement like that he sounds really stupid. I think somebody needs to remind him why he is allowed to make such statements and why he is allowed to live a free life. We are all free because the men and women of the armed forces risk their lives everyday to keep it that way. Someone should tell him that.

If anybody watched "The Unit" last night they had antiwar demonstrators on. Then one of the wives of a member of the Unit tore them a new one. She really did make some very good points.

thechubbss12
11-01-2006, 04:27 AM
Statements like that is why nobody voted kerry for pres... Hes a pansy who takes everything for granted....

RomeNYRR
11-01-2006, 04:28 AM
this guy is a clown! http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm ; he betrayed his own generation during war, and it doesnt suprise me that he insults todays generation.

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 05:35 AM
With a few of my family serving in Iraq this really burns me big time. In the end our soldiers are fighting for his freedom to run his mouth any way he wants. He has done it in the past and now in my eyes he has done it again to bash our troops on local TV. Even if he fouled up a joke or a punch at this administration it clearly shows how he feels about the troops being sent to Iraq. So get your edgemication kiddies er else you are going to fight this war for oil.

durrell
11-01-2006, 05:42 AM
You know, in a sense, this is good news for Republicans. People like John Kerry and Al Gore are doing our campaigning for us. By the time 2008 rolls around, between Kerry, Gore, and Hillary, they'll have the Democratic party looking so stupid that the Republicans will win by a landslide. I'm not calling all Democrats stupid, by any means, though. Just the people they allow to represent them. :rolleyes:

Mech Warrior
11-01-2006, 05:47 AM
It's pretty well-established that Kerry is an idiot. Nothing that comes out of his mouth surprises me. And fwiw, I got a 1400 on the SATs 30 years ago, went to college and served in the Army.

Of course, I somethimes hang out here, which would cause some to question my intelligence. :D

Moe
11-01-2006, 07:30 AM
This is ridiculous. He claims it was to ment to dis the president, but how can a direct insult to the troops be a dis to the president? I guarantee that over half the people in Iraq have a better college education, or will have a better college education that Kerry's dumb ass. All he is good at is running his mouth. No matter how much I don't like Bush, I would have killed myself if Kerry go into the oval office. As for the '08 elections...Obama FTW! I don't the the dems will pick Kerry or Clinton.


I was reading a discussion about this in the political section over at pbn, and someone brought up the fact that these word games politicians are playing are a whole lot better than throwing grenades at eachother like other 3rd world countries. So while it is pretty ridiculous, it could be worse.

shunut
11-01-2006, 07:33 AM
I'm not disagreeing with you guys about Kerry being and idiot, but Bush isn't the brightest bulb in the bunch either.

The Democratic party has a representative that I think will bring a lot of hope, which is Obama.

Honestly though I really hope McCain runs for President. I met him once and he is a very bright and honest man. He is one of the few politicians I trust and would vote for. My parents are democrats but they said if McCain ran, he'd have their vote no questions asked.

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 08:34 AM
Obama after becoming Senator really hasn't done anything bad. He hasn't done anything good either. If you look at his history you can't see why he earned such an honor to qualify for presidency. He hasn't done much for my state. On his vacation he did visit and try and help out people in Africa. Sorry but I consider those photo moments and him gearing up for his run for president. On a good note after he became senator his wife got a 300% raise. Not bad if I do say so myself. Oh yeah he has been blessed by Oprah and we all know anything that Oprah likes catches on and becomes a hit. Look at all the publicity he is getting. I just want to know what he is all about and what changes he can make to this country and what qualifies him to be the next president. McCain is good. He would make a great candidate if he runs.

shunut
11-01-2006, 08:42 AM
The thing that impresses me so much about McCain is that he is a real person. I remember watching him on TV, the topic was abortion and he was asked, "If your teenage daughter got pregnant what would you do?

He said "I don't know. I guess my family and I would have to sit down and discuss it."

I think that was awesome because him being a republican you'd expect him to say that he was flat out against abortion, ect...

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 09:42 AM
Well what the republicans have going for them at the moment is that they are showing to people that they base their opinions not on Gallot polls but in what they believe in. You can either like them for their views or move to the next candidate. They don't try to please the crowd or voters they are in front of and then turn around and say something else in front of a different crowd. Another candidate that has a high acceptence rating is Colin Powell. I loved him as a General as well as Secretary of State and still have a lot of faith in him. If these guys ran as President and Vice President. It would be tough to put anyone against them. They have high moral values and back up their beliefs with actions.


Thread Hijack. Sorry :( Still a good discussion.

spyderpaintball
11-01-2006, 10:11 AM
I believe that Obama needs a little more time in the Senate before running for president. McCain and Powell would be good choice becuase they are moderates and I think that is what this country needs. Not a super liberal or a (sorry for the term) NeoCon Republican.

While I kinda agree Dre that Republicans are sticking to their guns on issues it is also shooting themselves in the foot. I would kind of like a canidate that has some flexiblity to them in order to adapt to change and also be open to compromise. Thats not saying I want a canidate that up and changes at will but what Ive seen of the majority of both parties is an inablility to compromise of positions for the greater good. Rather they bicker back and forth until elections and then use it against their opposition.

Also what Ive seen out of the Republicans more than the Democrats is very very harsh ads and that is really alienated me from them. 90% of ads I have seen endorsing a Republican canidate have been not only negative but disturbingly negative. Once again that doesnt mean Democrats are off the hook (Think Blago dre) but I have seen it much more and much harsher from the Republicans.

Unfortunatly I am unable to vote in this election due tobeing in college. I missed the absentee ballot registration by 1 day and am 2 states away from my hometown.

once again [/Soap Box]

SharpObjects
11-01-2006, 10:28 AM
All politics are today are red vs blue, with no inbetween, and eveyone seems to think their opinion's are correct. For whatever reason, people think it is wrong to be something with the ideals of something else.

While I do feel that the Democrats are the lesser of the two evils, what Kerry said was wrong and he should apologize. Don't think it's as bad as Foley, and this is Kerry thing is only going to be used to distract everyone from that.

durrell
11-01-2006, 10:59 AM
I believe that Obama needs a little more time in the Senate before running for president. McCain and Powell would be good choice becuase they are moderates and I think that is what this country needs. Not a super liberal or a (sorry for the term) NeoCon Republican.

[/Soap Box]

Troof. I'm sick of partisan politics. We need someone who gets the job done, but doesn't want to come in and make major changes that would rattle the very foundation of our country.

:up: :up: :up: for intelligent, civilized politics talk.

DexGtr
11-01-2006, 11:47 AM
:D

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/DexGtr/soldiers.jpg

nbishop66
11-01-2006, 11:53 AM
I'm as Republican as they can and I can understand that it was meant as a swipe at the Pres. But Frankenstein was never known for his ability to deliver a joke. It is a shame that it came off the way it did. Especially for the people serving and their families. Kerry is a buffoon and will always be one. I'm from Mass and I've seen it first hand.

I have been a staunch supporter of McCain. I wish he would through his hat into the ring again. Like some of you have said, he comes off as an honest down to earth guy.

Moe
11-01-2006, 12:16 PM
baha, that picture is awesome dex.

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 12:30 PM
I'm as Republican as they can and I can understand that it was meant as a swipe at the Pres. But Frankenstein was never known for his ability to deliver a joke. It is a shame that it came off the way it did. Especially for the people serving and their families. Kerry is a buffoon and will always be one. I'm from Mass and I've seen it first hand.

I have been a staunch supporter of McCain. I wish we through he hat into the ring again. Like some of you have said, he comes off as an honest down to earth guy.

Kerry is thinking of throwing his hat in again in '08. Imagine that.

Jimmyd24
11-01-2006, 12:56 PM
kerrys statement was stupid but,
can someone name one thing that the republicans have done for us in office,
WHERES OSAMA BIN LADEN, its been five freckin years and we have satellites that can zoom onto the earth witin like twenty feet, googleeart?.
Also, did anyone happen to see president bushes state of the union address for this year, well to get to the point, he hasnt done one thing that he says that he was going to do.
all the republicans ever talk about is tax cuts, but thee thing peoiple forget to realized is that these tax cuts for the middle classs are only like 100 a year, for me at least, the majority of the tax cuts that they talk about are for the super rich, this needs to change
did you know that 98% of our nations wealth is held by 2% of our populaiton, thats messed up.
and did you notice that as soon as election time roll around and the republicnas realize that their approval ratings are ****ty (32% for bush), the gas prices mysteriously begin to drop, not a conincidence.
also, what are we doing in Iraq, seriously, and please dont ayone question my patronage, i love america with all my heart, but what did Suddam ever do to us. nothing, and dont even try to say 9/11, do some research pleaswe. Osoma bin laden and Suddam Hussein hate each other, the one is a shi'it and the other is a sunni, they are constantly at war with one another. we go into iraq saying that their ppeople are being abuswed, but what about all the poeple in africa that are starving to death and are at constant war and genocide with one another, anyone eveyr herard about the problem in the congo and other parts of africa, is because maybe that their black and that their was oil in iraq, i say yes
did you also know that china more or less owns our asses, we are in 9.2 trillion dollars of debt, 9.2 trillionnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, china and other countries such as saudi arabia give us this lona this money, what happens when they want to collect, were screwedddedddddddddddddddddddddddddd

so i beg you, dont let kerrys stupid ass comment effecdt your vote, vote democratic on november 9th

if you support the democratic party, put it in ur sig

DRAGON
11-01-2006, 12:57 PM
Couldn't have happened to a nicer political party...um.....person -

Sandman_Bravo
11-01-2006, 01:03 PM
When he was up the first time for the presidency, I had done some research on him. He married the daughter/heiress to the Heinz empire. It struck me funny that his platform was to be for (and reach out to) the common working class man. He and his wife are extremely wealthy and so far detached from what it's like to dig & scratch to eak out a living it's pathetic. She had also made a dumb-ass remark at that time about blue collar or lower class people, but the exact quote eludes me at this moment. Apparently they have an entire repertoire of imbecilic comments.

Jimmyd24
11-01-2006, 01:08 PM
whats ur point

Sandman_Bravo
11-01-2006, 01:12 PM
Apparently they have an entire repertoire of imbecilic comments.

Kerry has a history of making dumb comments, as does his wife.

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 01:31 PM
kerrys statement was stupid but,
can someone name one thing that the republicans have done for us in office,
WHERES OSAMA BIN LADEN, its been five freckin years and we have satellites that can zoom onto the earth witin like twenty feet, googleeart?.
Also, did anyone happen to see president bushes state of the union address for this year, well to get to the point, he hasnt done one thing that he says that he was going to do.
all the republicans ever talk about is tax cuts, but thee thing peoiple forget to realized is that these tax cuts for the middle classs are only like 100 a year, for me at least, the majority of the tax cuts that they talk about are for the super rich, this needs to change
did you know that 98% of our nations wealth is held by 2% of our populaiton, thats messed up.
and did you notice that as soon as election time roll around and the republicnas realize that their approval ratings are ****ty (32% for bush), the gas prices mysteriously begin to drop, not a conincidence.
also, what are we doing in Iraq, seriously, and please dont ayone question my patronage, i love america with all my heart, but what did Suddam ever do to us. nothing, and dont even try to say 9/11, do some research pleaswe. Osoma bin laden and Suddam Hussein hate each other, the one is a shi'it and the other is a sunni, they are constantly at war with one another. we go into iraq saying that their ppeople are being abuswed, but what about all the poeple in africa that are starving to death and are at constant war and genocide with one another, anyone eveyr herard about the problem in the congo and other parts of africa, is because maybe that their black and that their was oil in iraq, i say yes
did you also know that china more or less owns our asses, we are in 9.2 trillion dollars of debt, 9.2 trillionnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, china and other countries such as saudi arabia give us this lona this money, what happens when they want to collect, were screwedddedddddddddddddddddddddddddd

so i beg you, dont let kerrys stupid ass comment effecdt your vote, vote democratic on november 9th

if you support the democratic party, put it in ur sig


haven't done one thing??? Are you living in America? Do you own your own home? Do you pay less at the pumps? Do you have a job? If you say yes to any or all of those then yeah sure Bush and the Repubs haven't done anything for ya. :rolleyes:

spyderpaintball
11-01-2006, 01:37 PM
haven't done one thing??? Are you living in America? Do you own your own home? Do you pay less at the pumps? Do you have a job? If you say yes to any or all of those then yeah sure Bush and the Repubs haven't done anything for ya. :rolleyes:
Bush has no effect on Gas prices.

Moe
11-01-2006, 01:38 PM
so i beg you, dont let kerrys stupid ass comment effecdt your vote, vote democratic on november 9th

if you support the democratic party, put it in ur sig


Are you serious? You are begging of me to vote democratic? wow.....

If you support no party and understand that all political parties are corrupt put nothing in your sig, cuz you arent a tool.

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 01:40 PM
Bush has no effect on Gas prices.

K. :D Government controls Gas prices. :cool:

spyderpaintball
11-01-2006, 01:42 PM
K. :D Government controls Gas prices. :cool:
I have teh dataz that proves otherwise. :D

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 01:45 PM
I have teh dataz that proves otherwise. :D

My test is if the gas prices go up after the Nov 7th election. :D

Hob Hayward
11-01-2006, 01:48 PM
Well technically they did go up when we went into iraq... Ahem?

And Sandman, when talking about imbecilic comments I beg you, look at Bush.

What is truly neccissary for our country is a moderate whos not retardedly on one side. Someone who says, ok, stem cell research has soooooooooooooooooo much potential to do good that research must be done. We also need someone who will give us rights. Gay marriage: who are you to tell someone what they can and can't do just because you don't agree with it, they're not hurting anyone. Abortion: honestly if you don't beleive in it, don't do it. Do we outlaw contraception because the Catholics don't beleive in it? If your going to stomp on other peopels beliefs because you disagree and on't want ot give them freedom, then **** you. In referance to tax cuts, no one under the $200,000 income has received any benefits of tax cuts. Raise the taxes on the rich. We can't be spending money liek we do. We as a country are over 8.5 TRILLION dollars in debt, thats 3 trillion more than we were back when clinton was president. And guess what, Clinton was decreasing our debt before.

This comes from if you couldn't have guessed it, an upper middle class liberal white kid who is positive god doesn't exist (see: New Atheism).

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 01:59 PM
Hob we have to remember...
Clinton inherited the internet bubble (Boom)
Bush inherited 9/11

One will get more money and one will cost more money.

As for the no one will benefit that earns $200,000 or less is false. We all got money back while Bush has been in office. We have actually gotten money twice.

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 02:00 PM
:D

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/DexGtr/soldiers.jpg

That is the funniest thing I have seen today...

durrell
11-01-2006, 02:06 PM
Well technically they did go up when we went into iraq... Ahem?

And Sandman, when talking about imbecilic comments I beg you, look at Bush.

What is truly neccissary for our country is a moderate whos not retardedly on one side.

That is the only unbiased thing you said in this entire post, and I agree.

Someone who says, ok, stem cell research has soooooooooooooooooo much potential to do good that research must be done.

It's not the fact that stem cell research is bad. It's how they're going about it, and how some people would use it. The whole deal is, no one wants to see clones. And regardless of what scientists tell you, we all know their ulitmate goal is to clone an organ, and then eventually an entire human body. Who are they to create another person?

We also need someone who will give us rights.

Gay marriage: who are you to tell someone what they can and can't do just because you don't agree with it, they're not hurting anyone.

Abortion: honestly if you don't beleive in it, don't do it. Do we outlaw contraception because the Catholics don't beleive in it?

Who are you to change the way a country has been ran for the last 230 years? Who is anyone to change the way the Constitution is written? America was founded on certain beliefs and principals, and they've worked thus far. Why change them?

If your going to stomp on other peopels beliefs because you disagree and on't want ot give them freedom, then **** you.

Gee. Freedom. Let's think about freedom. Freedom starts as people wanting to make abortion legal, and gay marriage legal. Hmm, ok. No big deal. Hey, you know what? Lots of people smoke weed, let's make that legal too, no biggie. While we're at it, we might as well lower the drinking age to 16 since the majority of high school kids enjoy drinking. Let's eliminate tobacco laws too while we're on a roll here. Get the point? Laws are in place for a reason. You may say that to imply that if you allow abortion and gay marriage, it won't lead to all of that, but you're wrong. You give someone an inch, they take a foot. The bottom line is, if all you people have so many problems with the way the country is ran, then go visit our friendly neighbors to the North. They'd be more than happy to have you.

In referance to tax cuts, no one under the $200,000 income has received any benefits of tax cuts.

I'd love to see some facts backing this up. My dad only makes 90-100k a year, and he saved literally THOUSANDS of dollars on taxes in the tax cuts Bush passed, and so did many of the taxpayers he talked to.

Raise the taxes on the rich. We can't be spending money liek we do. We as a country are over 8.5 TRILLION dollars in debt, thats 3 trillion more than we were back when clinton was president. And guess what, Clinton was decreasing our debt before.

I'd also love to see the facts backing this up. You realize that when the government switches presidents, the effects of the previous president in office don't usually take place until 2-3 years after the switch. Clinton left our economy in shambles. The only reason he looked good is because of the Dot-Com boom back in the late 90's and early 2000's that boosted the economy. What does Bush get left with? September 11th, Katrina, Afghanistan, Iraq. You say he just got us in there by himself? Yeah right. Clinton's administration left unfinished business in both Afghanistan and Iraq long before Bush came to office.

This comes from if you couldn't have guessed it, an upper middle class liberal white kid who is positive god doesn't exist (see: New Atheism).

Positive God doesn't exist, eh? Well I'm positive he does. :D

This was not meant as a personal attack on you, but only on the points you brought up. This has been a good debate so far..so let's keep it that way. :up:

spyderpaintball
11-01-2006, 02:30 PM
Durrel I have to disagree on some technical points.




Gee. Freedom. Let's think about freedom. Freedom starts as people wanting to make abortion legal, and gay marriage legal. Hmm, ok. No big deal. Hey, you know what? Lots of people smoke weed, let's make that legal too, no biggie. While we're at it, we might as well lower the drinking age to 16 since the majority of high school kids enjoy drinking. Let's eliminate tobacco laws too while we're on a roll here. Get the point? Laws are in place for a reason. You may say that to imply that if you allow abortion and gay marriage, it won't lead to all of that, but you're wrong. You give someone an inch, they take a foot. The bottom line is, if all you people have so many problems with the way the country is ran, then go visit our friendly neighbors to the North. They'd be more than happy to have you.

This I have to disagree with. Being gay does not equate with making pot legal or lowering the drinking age. I agree that marraige is between a man and a woman but I also believe that gay couples have rights as well. I think that Civil Unions are the solutions. I also disagree with the hate of Canada. They are a different country dont hate because they are different than the USA. It seems to work for them just as out country seems to work well for us.


I'd love to see some facts backing this up. My dad only makes 90-100k a year, and he saved literally THOUSANDS of dollars on taxes in the tax cuts Bush passed, and so did many of the taxpayers he talked to.
Technical Point: Tax cuts seem great an all, but continual tax cuts can and will be detrimantal over time. You cant cut taxes and spend money especially in a War Economy. This is one reason that our country is in such bad fiscal shape. We dont cut spending and every politician that comes by cuts our taxes. Thus we increase the money we spend and we decrease the money that we take in. That isnt to say that raising taxes is good. Take a look at the Laffer Curve. That shows that there is a equilibrium tax level that yields maximum revenue for a taxing entity. Until you can show me that by cutting taxes we get closer to that equilibrium please dont tell me that cutting taxes are good for the country.


I'd also love to see the facts backing this up. You realize that when the government switches presidents, the effects of the previous president in office don't usually take place until 2-3 years after the switch. Clinton left our economy in shambles. The only reason he looked good is because of the Dot-Com boom back in the late 90's and early 2000's that boosted the economy. What does Bush get left with? September 11th, Katrina, Afghanistan, Iraq. You say he just got us in there by himself? Yeah right. Clinton's administration left unfinished business in both Afghanistan and Iraq long before Bush came to office.
Clinton was not responsible for the dot com bust and not responsable for the depression after he left office. Just as Bush didnt control 9/11 Clinton did not control the economy. Both are victims of circumstance.

durrell
11-01-2006, 02:56 PM
This I have to disagree with. Being gay does not equate with making pot legal or lowering the drinking age. I agree that marraige is between a man and a woman but I also believe that gay couples have rights as well. I think that Civil Unions are the solutions. I also disagree with the hate of Canada. They are a different country dont hate because they are different than the USA. It seems to work for them just as out country seems to work well for us.

I wasn't hating on Canada. Canada legalized weed, and gay marriages. If you want those rights, I don't see why everyone else should be forced to agree with you on that to have them here. What you said is true, our country works well for us. Why turn it upside down by totally changing it?

Technical Point: Tax cuts seem great an all, but continual tax cuts can and will be detrimantal over time. You cant cut taxes and spend money especially in a War Economy. This is one reason that our country is in such bad fiscal shape. We dont cut spending and every politician that comes by cuts our taxes. Thus we increase the money we spend and we decrease the money that we take in. That isnt to say that raising taxes is good. Take a look at the Laffer Curve. That shows that there is a equilibrium tax level that yields maximum revenue for a taxing entity. Until you can show me that by cutting taxes we get closer to that equilibrium please dont tell me that cutting taxes are good for the country.

Ok well here's my problem (not with you) but with Liberals in particular. They complain that the middle class is being taxed too much, and the upper class rich people aren't being taxed enough. If they believe this, but also believe that we need more taxing to fund the economy, then why are they complaining? That is my whole point. They never can make up their mind as to what they want, it's one thing one week, and another the next. Also, what about the basic law of supply and demand? Cutting taxes puts more money in the taxpayers pockets, which allows them to go spend more. And don't try to tell me that a LOT of people don't take their refund checks and spend them immediately. Take a look at quarterly car sales around tax time, cars sell MUCH more during that time. I agree on the equilibrium, there needs to be a midpoint. But where? And can the 2 sides agree on one?

Clinton was not responsible for the dot com bust and not responsable for the depression after he left office. Just as Bush didnt control 9/11 Clinton did not control the economy. Both are victims of circumstance.

I definitely agree here too, but if people look at Bush and say he screwed things up, we have to look at his inheritance..;)

I think one thing we can all agree on is we're all sick of the partisan politics. We all have affiliations, as shown by this thread, and we support different sides based on their views. But there are more important things to this country than gay marriage and abortion. Taxes. The economy. The war in Iraq and war on terror. Education. And other various issues that should be at the top of the list, but yet politicians insist on trying to get different groups of people to vote for them by supporting other not-so-important issues. And that goes for BOTH sides. Most Conservative politicians are narrow minded and refuse to break. But most Liberals ride the fence on issues and when the Conservatives offer a meeting point on an issue, they change their mind, and so on and so forth. When are they going to start getting things done? Politicians are too proud to agree with the other side, and all they do is sit there and debate back and forth, and frankly..I'm sick of it.

Hob Hayward
11-01-2006, 03:17 PM
It's not the fact that stem cell research is bad. It's how they're going about it, and how some people would use it. The whole deal is, no one wants to see clones. And regardless of what scientists tell you, we all know their ulitmate goal is to clone an organ, and then eventually an entire human body. Who are they to create another person?

Lets see, if you were life or death over then need of an organ that could be created using stem cells which way would you chose? Die or get the organ? The idea that scientists are going to be cloning humans is crazy. We can hardly clone sheep, and I don't think we're going to get to the point where a human clone is made for quite some time, though I can't say I really find too much wrong with it.

Gee. Freedom. Let's think about freedom. Freedom starts as people wanting to make abortion legal, and gay marriage legal. Hmm, ok. No big deal. Hey, you know what? Lots of people smoke weed, let's make that legal too, no biggie. While we're at it, we might as well lower the drinking age to 16 since the majority of high school kids enjoy drinking. Let's eliminate tobacco laws too while we're on a roll here. Get the point? Laws are in place for a reason. You may say that to imply that if you allow abortion and gay marriage, it won't lead to all of that, but you're wrong. You give someone an inch, they take a foot. The bottom line is, if all you people have so many problems with the way the country is ran, then go visit our friendly neighbors to the North. They'd be more than happy to have you.

To compare pot and alcohol to gay marriage and abortion is just silly. The drug laws and alcohol laws are supposed to be there for our protection. Does gay marriage or abortion hurt us in any ways? No.

I live in Ma :)

I'd also love to see the facts backing this up. You realize that when the government switches presidents, the effects of the previous president in office don't usually take place until 2-3 years after the switch. Clinton left our economy in shambles. The only reason he looked good is because of the Dot-Com boom back in the late 90's and early 2000's that boosted the economy. What does Bush get left with? September 11th, Katrina, Afghanistan, Iraq. You say he just got us in there by himself? Yeah right. Clinton's administration left unfinished business in both Afghanistan and Iraq long before Bush came to office.

Lets see, Clinton came into office, the debt was climbing, he was the first pres to turn the debt around in many many years, Bush came into office with the debt still dropping and has succeeeded in doubling it. The invasion of Iraq was certainly uneccissary and Katrina, well I won't get into that, but that was the biggest govenrmental disaster in quite a long time, so Bush failed at helping properly while still spending money. We spend 1.6 Billion in iraq EVERY DAY.



Positive God doesn't exist, eh? Well I'm positive he does. :D

Each to his own, telling you you couldn't beleive in god is iek telling two people they can't be married because they're gay.

Hob Hayward
11-01-2006, 03:25 PM
Ok well here's my problem (not with you) but with Liberals in particular. They complain that the middle class is being taxed too much, and the upper class rich people aren't being taxed enough. If they believe this, but also believe that we need more taxing to fund the economy, then why are they complaining? That is my whole point. They never can make up their mind as to what they want, it's one thing one week, and another the next. Also, what about the basic law of supply and demand? Cutting taxes puts more money in the taxpayers pockets, which allows them to go spend more. And don't try to tell me that a LOT of people don't take their refund checks and spend them immediately. Take a look at quarterly car sales around tax time, cars sell MUCH more during that time. I agree on the equilibrium, there needs to be a midpoint. But where? And can the 2 sides agree on one?

I disagree there, I don't see Middle class complaining about taxes. I see the middle class complaining that the 200,000+ people pay far less in taxes.


I think one thing we can all agree on is we're all sick of the partisan politics. We all have affiliations, as shown by this thread, and we support different sides based on their views. But there are more important things to this country than gay marriage and abortion. Taxes. The economy. The war in Iraq and war on terror. Education. And other various issues that should be at the top of the list, but yet politicians insist on trying to get different groups of people to vote for them by supporting other not-so-important issues. And that goes for BOTH sides. Most Conservative politicians are narrow minded and refuse to break. But most Liberals ride the fence on issues and when the Conservatives offer a meeting point on an issue, they change their mind, and so on and so forth. When are they going to start getting things done? Politicians are too proud to agree with the other side, and all they do is sit there and debate back and forth, and frankly..I'm sick of it.

I also disagree here, the politicians may be idiots in some cases, but then again Bush can't even talk.

I could also bring global warming in, we've got republicans denying the truth here. I'd like to see a scientifically backed argument saying that it doesn't exist.

Ye

durrell
11-01-2006, 03:51 PM
Lets see, if you were life or death over then need of an organ that could be created using stem cells which way would you chose? Die or get the organ? The idea that scientists are going to be cloning humans is crazy. We can hardly clone sheep, and I don't think we're going to get to the point where a human clone is made for quite some time, though I can't say I really find too much wrong with it.

I don't know enough about stem cells to comment on this much..

To compare pot and alcohol to gay marriage and abortion is just silly. The drug laws and alcohol laws are supposed to be there for our protection. Does gay marriage or abortion hurt us in any ways? No.

Abortion doesn't hurt us? Hmm. Legalizing abortion just gives teenagers one more way out if they decide on premarital sex. Premarital sex and sleeping around with different people can lead to STD's. Do you see no problem with STD's? Nothing good comes out of legalizing abortions. If a woman gets pregnant it is her own fault for having sex. In the issue of rape, it has been proven that women who are raped and get abortions have longer lasting detrimental psychological effects than those who go through with the pregnancy. It has also been proven that in the cases of rape, less than 3 percent of women end up pregnant. I am not an advocate of rape, but I believe that the other 97 percent speaks for itself that abortion should not be legalized. So, in essence, abortion laws are there for protection as well.

Gay marriage. There's nothing to say about this issue besides the fact that a majority of people disagree with it. But I believe in a few years civil unions will be legalized, so it's not as much of a valid argument as that of abortion.

Lets see, Clinton came into office, the debt was climbing, he was the first pres to turn the debt around in many many years, Bush came into office with the debt still dropping and has succeeeded in doubling it. The invasion of Iraq was certainly uneccissary and Katrina, well I won't get into that, but that was the biggest govenrmental disaster in quite a long time, so Bush failed at helping properly while still spending money. We spend 1.6 Billion in iraq EVERY DAY.

I have no explanation for Bush's increase in the national debt besides the fact that it began to climb when we invaded Afghanistan. Other than that, I have no explanation or defense on how we're on our way to a 50 year high.

So...how did Bush fail at Katrina..by issuing a state of emergency before the hurricane even reached the shore? Take a look at this timeline:

Saturday, August 27th

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]

Monday, August 29

7AM CDT — KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

That's 48 hours of notice by the federal government. Most natural disasters don't get federal emergencies declared until during or after the storm. How did Bush fail? Was he supposed to magically part the waters to get troops in faster? I'm sorry, but I have yet to hear a valid argument on how BUSH failed in the Katrina disaster. FEMA, maybe. But what was Bush supposed to do?

The invasion of Iraq was unnecessary? Let's ask Bill Clinton about this issue. After coming under fire about why he didn't take the time to take out Saddam or Osama back in the early 90's, he protested that he tried to, but couldn't get the clearance to implement bases near the region. So if that's the case, he obviously agreed on the need to take the 2 men out. The war in Iraq was necessary at the time it began, but now I will say we have done our duty and it is time to begin the process of cutting ties and letting Iraq run itself.


I disagree there, I don't see Middle class complaining about taxes. I see the middle class complaining that the 200,000+ people pay far less in taxes.

I didn't say the middle class was complaining about taxes. I said the Liberals were complaining about taxes. What "middle class" are you speaking of? The Massachusetts middle class? Gee, I wonder which way they're slanted.

I also disagree here, the politicians may be idiots in some cases, but then again Bush can't even talk.

Now you're just starting to look ignorant...

I could also bring global warming in, we've got republicans denying the truth here. I'd like to see a scientifically backed argument saying that it doesn't exist.

If you want to see scientific arguments about global warming, I suggest watching the National Geographic channel or picking up a Popular Science magazine. It has now been proven that the Earth goes through dramatic climate changes in different periods of time. Some people say hurricanes and our wild weather are due to global warming. That, too, is not true. Hurricanes and weather are proportionate to oceanic activity (see Popular Mechanics, October 2006). I'll give it to you, our habits need to change, but not to the point of it being a major campaign issue.

calebh
11-01-2006, 04:07 PM
in kerry's defense, it was supposed to be a crack at bush's intelligence... or lack thereof... fyi (that'll probly just get him flamed worse, this being a haven of republican heathens :P, but id rather the one to replace bush at least be able to get his point across without offending anyone. bush just makes us all crack up: "man and fish can coexist peacefully.")

as for an extremely informative page on the national debt, here you go :D http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ over $8.5 trillion... you can blame clinton all you want, but its bush who keeps signing bills to raise the national debt cieling. "nobody died when clinton lied." (except maybe an unborn child. the world may never know)

im not quite sure why yall are arguing over katrina. to me, it seems like everyone did a horrible job communicating about what to do. bush declared a federal emergency without indicating that FEMA would take over. the guvner of lousiana figured that meant FEMA would take over (since it was kind of a FEDERAL emergency.) he was mistaken. so everyone was screwed.

hob, theres as much evidence of global warming as there is that its a purely natural shift in climate. i wont argue either way.

ahh, the voice of a moderate. its fresh you know? calebh for prez 08 :D

Drefish99
11-01-2006, 05:43 PM
http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/release.html?id=33

Kerry's Press Release on his site.

calebh
11-01-2006, 05:48 PM
yay kerry, way to answer mudslinging with more mudslinging! thats exactly what our country needs less than a week from election day! :dodgy:

Hob Hayward
11-01-2006, 05:50 PM
Global Warming:
http://http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/images/co2-temp.gif

Direct from the EPA.

And D, don't be disputing the truth, Bush can't talk.

Edit: pic wont work; http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/pastcc.html#causes

Jimmyd24
11-01-2006, 06:05 PM
please tell me one thing thing that bush has done for us, please
and if indeed wut u say that the government controls gas prices, then why the hell would u want to keep the repubs in office if their just going to raise the prices right after the election

silentpaintballfreak
11-01-2006, 06:22 PM
I do not know much of politics. But I do live in the Teenaged world and have an opinion on two things.

Gay Marraige. My best friend decided to become bi-sexual. She scared me with it at first but then as i got to know the girl she was with i saw how and why she dicided on the decision. I stressed her against it. Finally she came to her senses and relized that she was getting herself in trouble here and she had to find a way out. My point being the fact that most people who are gay or bi might actually be in love with each other. I am in no way for or against it. I just choose to look at it from their point of view.

Abortion: Im flat out against it! I was a product of alchohol and prom night. My mom was very young when she had me. I might not be here. So just from the fact that i could not exist in my life I am naturally against it. And currently in my high school I have two classes a day that have pregnant girls in them. If the girls could abort willingly dont you think that every single girl would be pregnant?

Stem Cell: Now this I am for. Clones would be useless to us. You cant clone a brain to have the knowledge you already have so you would have to teach them. And if a body develops to match its 32yr counter part wouldnt it be hard to potty train it? or to teach it to walk? Cloning organs. Well why not? We all want to be invincible. You cant tell me different. Its a greed no one can deny.

This is a review based on a 15yr old agnostic (http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/a/a0145000.html) kid in a poor town overran by druggys and drunks.

durrell
11-01-2006, 06:26 PM
please tell me one thing thing that bush has done for us, please
and if indeed wut u say that the government controls gas prices, then why the hell would u want to keep the repubs in office if their just going to raise the prices right after the election

Look, if you can't say something constructive, then stay out. It's obvious you hate Republicans. But no one else here is bashing anyone else's party affiliation except you. Consider this your warning. :mad:

And hob, lol, I'm not going to argue..the debates Bush had in 2003 were almost bad enough to make you cry. Now Cheney, on the other hand, he raped Edwards in the Vice-Pres debates. :up:

And as for the abortions, I too am a product of uhhh some night when my parents hooked up? Mom was only 18 and dad was 22 I think. I've never really thought of of it that way though..

silentpaintballfreak
11-01-2006, 06:34 PM
its good to look at some things differently in life. always better when i has too do with you being alive or not.

Hob Hayward
11-01-2006, 06:51 PM
Personal opinion. But honestly you must know what I'm talking about when I refer to his inability to talk. Unless his ability to make no sense doesn't count?

badlandsrox
11-01-2006, 07:14 PM
you guys have an election in a week :confused: I thought they were only every 4 years??

calebh
11-01-2006, 07:43 PM
we had to learn this in government class this year, lol

the tuesday following the first monday in november on even numbered years :D who is up for election is different. the presidential election is in two more years, but the entire house of representatives is up for reelection every two years. and one third of the senate is up for reelection every two years. theres different elections in different states as well. some controversial laws get referred to the citizens, like the abortion ban in south dakota.

If the girls could abort willingly dont you think that every single girl would be pregnant?
no they wouldnt lol, thats the point of abortions :P and beleive it or not, theres still some girls (and guys) with morals that refuse to give up their virginity before they're married. i know its a shocker...

Now Cheney, on the other hand, he raped Edwards in the Vice-Pres debates.
now imagine the kids from that hookup :P

vikingshadow
11-02-2006, 03:36 AM
please tell me one thing thing that bush has done for us, please

Ok, my momma always said NEVER discuss politics, religion or music because the idiots will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience....man are they ever grabbing at me right now! Hence the reason I've been absent in this thread.

Only one thing? Ok, the thing that affects my life - education - No Child Left Behind, while the BIGGEST pain in an educator's backside, has been the best thing education has seen in a very long time. Test scores have gone up, drop out rates have gone down, kids are more ready for the world after high school, teachers are being held responsible for actually teaching and whether kids think so or not, most schools in the country has become a place to learn again. This has NOTHING to do with school safety, so don't start on that.

I could talk about some more things, but see my first paragraph.

Oh, and I back D up with what he said about your bashing posts here - this is NOT the place for that because this is a discussion on KERRY, not Republicans and how much you hate them. Now, go put THAT in your sig....

Edit - BTW, I had a funny thought. I think if Laura Bush ran for president, she'd clean the floor in no time (her popular opinion polls are the highest that anyone has ever had!) LB for president - especially if Hillary runs! Now, there's a scary though, a democrat named Hillary Clinton in office.....

Sandman_Bravo
11-02-2006, 03:58 AM
My party affiliation is really a moot point, as is most everyone else's. And I'll tell you why; the only real lines of separation amongst the American people are between those who have, and those who have not. If we the people ever put aside the little issues that keep us bickering, and sided together against the true rich (who control the government), there would be some big changes made. Let's not squabble over which party is correct; aren't most representatives on either side very wealthy? Are you extremely wealthy also? Yet they are our elected officials making laws and decisions for us. I had posted this topic to discuss a political figure (regardless of party affiliation) making a ridiculous comment publically. :)

silentpaintballfreak
11-02-2006, 04:10 AM
no they wouldnt lol, thats the point of abortions :P and beleive it or not, theres still some girls (and guys) with morals that refuse to give up their virginity before they're married. i know its a shocker...
I agree their. but i judged that opinion on my high school were most of the girls make themselves to available and every guy and his brother wants some. Me on the other hand am against that. But finding a girl with the same moral standards here is rather difficult.
Viking, My mom says the same thing. I got in a big argument at UpWard Bound over religion. Im not allowed in the same room with the guy. Needless to say it ruined our friend ship. But most of us on here are mature and will respect each others opinion. Thus the reason i posted.

Drefish99
11-02-2006, 06:25 AM
please tell me one thing thing that bush has done for us, please
and if indeed wut u say that the government controls gas prices, then why the hell would u want to keep the repubs in office if their just going to raise the prices right after the election

K I know this will be Tl,DR for a lot but I thought I would do an injustice if I didn't edumicate people of what our president (like him or not) has done for our country.

A Week Of Accomplishments

* The President Will Work With Congress To Complete Reauthorization Of The Patriot Act. The Patriot Act is a key part of America's efforts to combat terrorism and protect the American people. The Patriot Act has enhanced information sharing between law enforcement and intelligence personnel and has provided critical tools to find and catch terrorists - tools that have been used for years to investigate other crimes such as organized crime and drug dealing. The President looks forward to continuing to work with Congress on reauthorization.
*
Congress Took Action To Reduce Government Spending. Both the House and Senate made a fiscally responsible vote to cut spending by $39.7 billion and keep the government on track to cut the deficit in half by 2009. This will also be the first time in nearly a decade that Congress has reduced entitlement spending. This demonstrates a strong commitment to funding the Nation's priorities while ensuring that taxpayer money is spent wisely.
* President Bush Signed The "Gulf Opportunity Zone Act Of 2005." To further spur economic growth, the President proposed - and Congress passed - provisions for a Gulf Opportunity Zone, with tax relief and loans to be provided to businesses and entrepreneurs in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama.
* President Bush Signed The "Stem Cell Therapeutic And Research Act Of 2005." This legislation creates a new Federal program to collect and store cord blood and expands the current bone marrow registry program to also include cord blood.

President Bush Is Committed To Winning The War On Terror

* The United States Is Advancing Democracy Around The World. To win the War on Terror, the United States is supporting the growth of democratic movements and institutions that offer an alternative to the hatred and fear espoused by the terrorists. Millions turned out to vote in Iraq and Afghanistan after decades of tyranny, and Afghanistan inaugurated its new freely and fairly elected legislature just this past week. This year, the world has witnessed democratic revolutions in Georgia, Lebanon, Ukraine, and Kyrgyzstan. By advancing the cause of liberty and freedom, America is giving millions an alternative to intolerance and violence and ensuring security for future generations.

Drefish99
11-02-2006, 06:25 AM
* The United States Is Pursuing A Comprehensive Strategy For Victory In Iraq. To strengthen security, the Coalition and Iraqi security forces are clearing out areas controlled by the enemy, working with Iraqi forces to hold that territory, and following up with targeted reconstruction to help Iraqis rebuild their lives. America is helping Iraqis build inclusive democratic institutions that protect all Iraqis, engage those who can be persuaded to join the new Iraq and marginalize those who never will. The Coalition is working with Iraqis to help them build capable and effective Iraqi security forces so that Iraqis can secure their own country. Economically, America is helping the Iraqis restore infrastructure, reform their economy, and build the economic framework that will give all Iraqis a stake in a free and peaceful Iraq.
o Iraq Has Made Tremendous Political Progress. In just over two-and-a-half years, Iraqis have gone from living under a brutal tyrant to liberation, free elections, and a democratic constitution. Just this past week, over 10 million Iraqis voted to elect the only constitutional democratic government in the Arab world. The Iraqi people are sending a message they will not be intimidated and will determine their own destiny. By helping Iraqis build their democracy, the United States will gain an ally in the War on Terror, inspire reformers across the Middle East, and make the American people more secure.
* America Is Fighting Terrorism And Safeguarding The Homeland. Defeating a broad and adaptive terrorist network requires patience, constant pressure, and strong allies. Working with these partners, the United States is disrupting conspiracies to attack Americans, destroying the terrorists' ability to wage war, and stopping proliferation of weapons of mass destruction (WMD). To defend the homeland, the Administration is working to reform the intelligence services and the FBI, training more first responders, and disrupting terrorist cells in our midst with tools like the Patriot Act. The United States is hunting down the terrorists in the shadows before they can attack this country again.
o The President Nominated The First Director Of National Intelligence (DNI). President Bush signed into law the landmark Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act, which overhauls the intelligence community, mandating a range of reforms and centralizing in one office key authorities. The DNI serves as President Bush's principal intelligence advisor and the leader of the Intelligence Community. The first DNI, Ambassador John Negroponte, was confirmed by the Senate and sworn in this past April.
o President Bush Released The National Strategy For Pandemic Influenza. The President outlined the Nation's strategy to detect outbreaks, expand domestic vaccine production capacity, stockpile treatments, prepare to respond to a pandemic, and ensure the health and safety of all Americans. The Administration's ongoing implementation of the National Strategy will ensure a coordinated and effective Federal response and close cooperation with international partners and state, local, and tribal governments.
o President Bush Is Combating The Spread Of WMD. The President has made clear that WMD in the hands of terrorists represents a grave threat, and he has taken aggressive steps on multiple fronts to limit access to - and prevent the use of - WMD materials or weapons by terrorists. The Administration has established the Global Threat Reduction Initiative, led efforts at the United Nations to adopts UNSCR 1540, freeze assets of WMD proliferators, established the Domestic Nuclear Detection Office, worked with overseas partners to combat proliferation, and developed a comprehensive plan with Russia to secure all nuclear material in Russia two years ahead of schedule.
o President Bush Proposed A Comprehensive Immigration Reform Plan To Enhance America's Homeland Security. The President has outlined efforts to secure the border, prevent illegal crossings, and strengthen enforcement of immigration laws. The President also proposes to take pressure off the border by creating a Temporary Worker Program that meets the economy's demands while rejecting amnesty for those who break America's laws.

Drefish99
11-02-2006, 06:26 AM
President Bush Is Advancing His Agenda To Maintain A Strong And Vibrant Economy

* The Economy Is Growing And Creating Jobs. Since May 2003, the economy has added nearly 4.5 million new jobs. The unemployment rate is down to 5 percent - lower than the average for the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. Last quarter, the economy grew at 4.1 percent and has been growing steadily for more than two years. More Americans now own their homes, and minority home ownership is near record highs. Real disposable income is up, and consumers are confident. New orders for durable goods have risen sharply, and shipments of manufactured goods are up. Over the past four-and-a-half years, productivity has grown at its fastest rate since the 1960s, and small businesses are thriving.
* Cutting The Deficit. Each year the President has been in office, the rate of growth of non-security discretionary spending has been cut.
o President Bush Calls On Congress To Restrain Spending. Last February, the President submitted the most disciplined budget proposal since Ronald Reagan was in the White House. Congress has cut non-security discretionary spending and mandatory spending. The President's plan proposed to terminate or reduce more than 150 government programs, and Congress is poised to deliver savings on about 90 of these proposals.
o We Remain On Track To Cut The Budget Deficit In Half By 2009. By continuing spending restraint and pro-growth economic policies, we will stay on track to meet the President's goal of cutting the deficit in half by 2009
* President Bush Has Called On Congress To Make Tax Relief Permanent. The President's tax relief, which is helping to grow the economy, will expire unless Congress acts. To maintain growth, there has to be certainty in the tax code, workers need to keep more of their paychecks, and Congress needs to make the tax cuts permanent.
* President Bush Signed Into Law The First National Energy Plan In More Than A Decade. The energy bill makes an unprecedented commitment to energy conservation and efficiency by promoting smarter technology; helps make cleaner and more productive use of our existing energy resources; and helps diversify energy supply by promoting alternative and renewable energy sources. The bill also helps promote needed investment in energy infrastructure. This is a good first step toward a more affordable and reliable supply of energy for American consumers.
* President Bush Signed Into Law The Highway Bill. The highway bill will provide funding and flexibility for states to modernize America's network of roads, bridges, and mass transit systems, without raising gas taxes. With this multi-year funding bill in place, vital new transportation projects will proceed, which will make driving safer, ease congestion, and ensure that the Nation's transportation system keeps pace with our rapidly expanding economy.
* President Bush Signed The Central America And Dominican Republic Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA-DR) To Level The Playing Field For U.S. Workers And Open New Markets For American Goods. CAFTA-DR immediately eliminates tariffs on nearly 80 percent of U.S. exports to participating nations and is expected to generate billions of dollars in increased sales of U.S. goods and farm exports. This will help keep jobs in the United States and make American workers better able to compete. Also, with passage of CAFTA-DR, the United States supports stability and prosperity in the region, which will make Americans safer here at home.
o The President Challenged The International Community To Help Developing Nations Through Free Trade. The international community must work together in the Doha negotiations to eliminate agricultural subsidies that distort trade and stunt development and also to eliminate tariffs and other barriers to open markets for farmers around the world. The United States has proposed to eliminate all trade-distorting tariffs, subsidies, and other barriers to the free flow of goods and services as other nations do the same. This is key to overcoming poverty in the world's poorest nations - and to promoting prosperity and opportunity for all nations.
o The President's Initiatives Are Spreading Opportunity To Developing Nations. The President has encouraged developing countries to take primary responsibility and ownership for their own development through good governance, the rule of law, and sound economic policies, as well as by cultivating domestic and private resources in development. He has supported these goals through bold new programs, including the Millennium Challenge Account, which rewards developing countries that fight corruption and implement sound policies; the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, a five-year, $15-billion effort that is providing hope throughout the developing world; and multilateral debt relief, which will provide 100-percent debt cancellation and a path towards the private capital markets for qualifying heavily indebted poor countries.
* President Bush Nominated Ben Bernanke To Serve As Chairman Of The Federal Reserve Board Of Governors. Dr. Bernanke is a leading monetary policy expert, respected for his work as Chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisers, as a former Governor of the Federal Reserve, and as a Professor of Economics and Public Affairs at Princeton University. His enormous credibility will give confidence to the financial markets and win him the respect of economists and investors alike.

Drefish99
11-02-2006, 06:27 AM
The President Nominated Well-Qualified Candidates To The U.S. Supreme Court

* The President Nominated, And The Senate, Confirmed Chief Justice John Roberts. During his confirmation hearings, members of the Senate and the American people saw a nominee of exceptional integrity, deep humility, uncommon talent, experience, and character. Americans are confident that as the 17th Chief Justice of the United States, John Roberts will be prudent in exercising judicial power, firm in defending judicial independence, and a faithful guardian of the Constitution.
* President Bush Nominated Judge Samuel Alito To Serve As Associate Justice Of The U.S. Supreme Court. Judge Alito has the keen intellect, impartiality, temperament, sound legal judgment, and integrity necessary to serve on the Supreme Court. As a Federal judge, he has a record of strictly interpreting the law. He has more judicial experience than any Supreme Court nominee in the past 70 years. The President knows the Senate will recognize Judge Alito's mastery of the law, deep commitment to justice and equality, great personal character, and he urges the Senate confirm him by January 20 to be the next Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court.

President Bush Has Worked With Congress To Pass Legislation Important To The American People

* President Bush Signed The Patient Safety And Quality Improvement Act Of 2005. President Bush signed into law a patient safety bill to improve health care by reducing medical errors. It also establishes a voluntary system to report health care errors. By giving patient safety organizations the ability to analyze past medical mistakes, this legislation will help prevent future mistakes and will improve the quality of care and lower costs for patients nationwide.
* The President Signed Class Action Reform To Curb Lawsuit Abuse. The class action reform signed into law last February by President Bush will help reduce lawsuit abuse in our country and ease the burden of needless litigation on every American worker, business, and family. In particular, it helps prevent abusive class action lawsuits that result in large fees for lawyers and minimal awards for injured parties. President Bush is urging Congress to pass other legal reform measures, including medical liability and asbestos litigation reforms.
* President Bush Signed Bankruptcy Reform Legislation That Makes The System Fairer For Creditors And Debtors. Under this law, Americans who have the ability to pay will be required to pay back at least part of their debts. This practical reform will help ensure debtors make a good-faith effort to repay as much as they can afford. This will make credit more affordable because when bankruptcy is less common, credit can be extended to more people at better rates.
* No Child Left Behind (NCLB) Is Working. As a result of NCLB, standards are higher, national test scores are on the rise, and minority students have made progress toward closing the achievement gap. On this year's National Assessment of Educational Progress, fourth-grade reading scores were six points higher than in 2000, and fourth- and eighth-grade math scores were the highest in the test's history. Between 2000 and 2005, scores for African-American students for fourth-grade reading and math and eighth-grade math have increased - and the gap between white and African-American students in those categories has decreased during that time.
* President Bush's New Medicare Coverage Will Ensure That Everyone On Medicare Has Better Choices. The new Medicare law provides preventative care, prescription drug coverage for the first time, and more choices. In November, seniors began enrolling for the new prescription drug benefit that takes effect on January 1, 2006. All Medicare drug plans offer more and better choices and help low-income beneficiaries.
* Congress Is Acting To Extend Welfare Reform. Both the Senate and House have agreed to extend provisions of welfare reform set to expire at the end of December and strengthen work requirements for welfare recipients.

Drefish99
11-02-2006, 06:27 AM
The President Is Acting To Help The Gulf Coast Recover From Natural Disaster

* The President And Congress Have Acted To Provide Resources For Hurricane Recovery. Since Hurricane Katrina struck, more than $70 billion has been made available for Gulf hurricane recovery efforts through the FEMA Disaster Relief Fund, low-interest loans to local governments, flood insurance, and funding relief from cost-share requirements.
* President Bush Is Working To Make The New Orleans Levee System Better And Stronger. The President is focused on the safety and security of the citizens of New Orleans and is committed to providing the resources necessary for them to return home and rebuild their lives. The additional levee protections the Administration is proposing - including armoring, closing the three interior canals, and installing state-of-the-art pump stations - will address the main causes of the catastrophic flooding during Hurricane Katrina.
* The Administration Is Helping Hurricane Evacuees Find Housing. FEMA has provided rental assistance to more than 650,000 households to date and remains committed to providing families with the tools they need to become self-sufficient again. FEMA continues to reach out to those who have not yet found longer-term housing. For these evacuees, FEMA will continue payment for hotel rooms through January 7, 2006, or longer.
* The Government Is Providing Education Assistance To States And Schools. The Department of Education is working with States and schools in the region and elsewhere to ensure a minimum of disruption for the hundreds of thousands of students affected by Hurricane Katrina. The President has proposed aid to affected states and to school districts taking in evacuated students, payments to States to enable displaced children to enroll in schools of their choice, and assistance to post-secondary institutions, students, and borrowers.
* The Federal Government Is Helping The States Remove Debris. Nearly 56 million cubic yards of debris have been removed in AL, TX, MS, and LA. FEMA reimbursed the states at 100 percent for this expense for a month or longer in Alabama and Texas. This week, the President extended full Federal reimbursement for Louisiana until June 30, 2006, and for Mississippi until March 15, 2006.
* The Federal Government Acted Aggressively To Ensure Energy Supply. Following the hurricanes, President Bush directed all Federal agencies to minimize possible shocks to the economy. The Department of Energy made crude oil available from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, ensuring continuity of energy supplies. The International Energy Agency agreed to release 60 million barrels of oil and gasoline. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff temporarily waived the Jones Act, allowing foreign-flagged ships to transport fuel between U.S. ports and import oil from Europe. The Environmental Protection Agency, Department of the Treasury, and Department of Transportation eased regulatory rules to increase flexibility and availability of fuel supplies by waiving winter/summer blend requirements and rules for dyed diesel fuel. The Administration worked with private firms to restore the Gulf Coast's energy infrastructure. These actions have ensured a continuity of energy supplies to drivers, families, consumers, and small businesses.


John Kerry is planning to run again in 2008... Lets stop him by signing this petition (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/peanutbutter.html).

Laura Bush for 2008!!!! Woot!!!!

vikingshadow
11-02-2006, 07:28 AM
So, yeahbut, Bush hasn't done anything, right? :dodgy:




Anyone here around when Reagan was Pres? Remember how everyone HATED him? He caused the homeless problem with the mental and VA patients, he inherited the Iran crisis crap (that was over in a hurry after his election) he did this he did that..........we had a small recession then HUGE growth that bottomed out when Bush Sr took over office, then 20 years later people say he was the best president we've ever had. Makes me wonder what people will say about Bush in 20 years...

As far as Kerry goes, I don't trust him. He bashes people in public (incorrectly done, but whatever), he's obviously against any foreign military action (just like Clinton was), he lied about his military career and accomplishments, he says he knows how the poor and middle class feel and knows what they want (this coming from the husband of the Ketchup queen....) Heck, even the Dems are telling him to shut up! He's a true example of what politics is and has become and it sickens me.

Laura Bush for 2008!!

vwjimmy
11-02-2006, 07:33 AM
Dre.....My eyes are tired :)

Sandman_Bravo
11-02-2006, 07:37 AM
Well technically they did go up when we went into iraq... Ahem?

And Sandman, when talking about imbecilic comments I beg you, look at Bush.

This comes from if you couldn't have guessed it, an upper middle class liberal white kid who is positive god doesn't exist (see: New Atheism).

The original post (before it got somewhat sidetracked) was about Kerry making stupid ass comments. I know Bush has made some dumb ones as well, but that's not what is being discussed.

This is from a lower middle class man who has had to work hard for every thing he has, except for his belief in God and country.

STRIKEFIRST
11-02-2006, 09:05 AM
The problem I have with the comment by Kerry is the fact that the original line or so we are led to believe...wasn't anything like the statement he said.

Botching a joke is screwing up a word or two...not completly changing sentences.

I don't care what Bush said has said or will say...he needs to go away.

Kerry is a dangerous pompus *******...with no respect for the common man...I don't care if he is a Veteran...his actions disgrace our heros.

calebh
11-02-2006, 09:22 AM
dre, not all of us consider all of those accomplishments. i view the patriot act as a theft of american's privacy and little else.

nor does bush and co. always back up theri words with actions. they say they work together to lower government spending, yet bush recently signed yet another bill raising the government spending cap.

i dont feel like reading thru the rest of those right now... kinda busy. ill get back to them later.

and vike, if no child left behind has done good for your school, tell me what yall are doing, cuz its not working in texas... maybe its just because we have idiots in the state legislature.

and strikefirst, have you ever tried public speaking? its not always that easy to keep even whole sentences together.

vikingshadow
11-02-2006, 09:39 AM
and vike, if no child left behind has done good for your school, tell me what yall are doing, cuz its not working in texas... maybe its just because we have idiots in the state legislature.


Basically what I said in my paragraph - teachers are held to a much higher standard by having to prove they are highly qualified to teach the subject(s) they teach, student drop out is much lower than it was 10 years ago, test scores are higher, I could run the whole gambit, but you get the picture. Sure, there are a lot of crappy things about it, but before this came in, nothing was being done for or about or to education with any force. The idea is good, the implementation and interpretation by many states and schools was bad.

Drefish99
11-02-2006, 09:42 AM
dre, not all of us consider all of those accomplishments. i view the patriot act as a theft of american's privacy and little else.



I agree that it can be used to invade my privacy but if lets say we get attacked again. I want to know my government has done all they can to prevent that attack and if it is the cost of my privacy to keep my family and I safe then so be it. I can see an uproar if we get attacked again and if the current administration waves and points the finger that the governing body of this country didn't do enough by not passing the Patriot Act.

In regards to John Kerry and his bobbled joke Howard Dean will benefit greatly from this. If the Dems don't take the house and senate next week he can blame it all on Kerry :D.

calebh
11-02-2006, 02:34 PM
vike, ya its bad... in my school, we still dont have qualified teachers teaching every class. what ended up happening was my parents getting fired or moved because they didnt have degrees in areas they had years of experience in. (spanish for my dad. and he was trying hard to get qualified. texas requirements for certifying spanish teachers are outrageous. counseling for my mom. and she was about a year away from her degree and certification). id rather have an experienced teacher over one straight out of college any day. or a coach. i hate it when i have a coach for a teacher... the law also hurts the smart kids who now have to sit in the same classes with the not so smart kids, who get all the attention (not that the smart kids need it all the time) and slow the pace of the class by a lot.

personal issues with the law aside, it is a great idea, but something texas (or just area schools maybe) is doing is seriously wrong, cuz its not helping us at all. teachers still arent all qualified. in fact, the counselor they brought in to replace my mom is pretty incompetent, imo. dropout rates the same. and test scores are actually down. go figure.

I can see an uproar if we get attacked again and if the current administration waves and points the finger that the governing body of this country didn't do enough by not passing the Patriot Act.
good point. but surely theres a better way to do it...

EDIT: oh and my uncle, too. got a family of teachers lol. and they all got shafted.

vikingshadow
11-02-2006, 03:15 PM
Well, I can only speak for Oklahoma, but we've been doing this since the late 1980's, early 1990's. In fact, a lot of states look to Oklahoma when it comes to things we've done to get ready for NCLB. We have the number one ranked Early Childhood program in the nation, which is pretty cool, and we're ranked somewhere in the top 10 (I think) overall....

Funny thing is, teachers from Oklahoma actually LEAVE Oklahoma to teach in Texas for the higher pay...

xtraking
11-02-2006, 03:36 PM
my philosophy teacher agrees 100% with Kerry... i get in arguments with him every day :-P haha

silentpaintballfreak
11-03-2006, 04:12 AM
I agree with calebh on the no student left behind. Im a rather smart student and I am ALWAYS Bored in class because the teachers are always helping the remedial learning people. The teachers in my school struggle for the lack of knowlegde in spanish. 3/4s of my school are people who dont know how to speak fluent english. It sucks.

This thread has gone every which way... I say Otter for pres.!!!11!!!!!!!!!!omg!!!

badlandsrox
11-03-2006, 06:12 AM
we had a big talk about that no kid left behind or w.e the other day in band, and it was surprising to learn that many top class band programs are being cut so that the schools have more money for acedemic teachers, even though its a proven fact that being in a music program, on average, your marks will go up.

vikingshadow
11-03-2006, 08:52 AM
Well, the music thing has been getting cut for YEARS longer than NCLB. Same as Art, drama and other classes like that. In fact, it was happening back when I was in school in the 80's.

The controversy of course was, "Why not the sports program instead?" Now, they have NCLB to blame it on.

Here's what I've been told and what I've learned. Education is like anything else, it goes in cycles. This is the new thing right now. In another 10 years, we'll be back to something else. The more experienced teachers aren't holding their breaths because they know it'll come back around. Just so long as we don't go back to Outcomes Based Education, everything will be great!

(OBE, in case you were wondering, is what I think is one of a few major cause of failure in the education system. Some bleeding hearts got together about 15 - 20 years ago and said we were "hurting" young people's psyche because they, the students, were failing and feeling like the couldn't succeed.

So they decided that we have to give assignments and tests, however, if the students failed, we give them as many opportunities as it takes to get it right. Even if it takes all year! Again, students being sucessful and feeling good about themselves is another "good theory" but what happened was the students took advantage of this and several ended up NEVER passing. Here's where it got fun. We weren't allowed to give them a failing grade. Thus, the grades were actually dropped!

So, we had a whole lot of students exiting school and going into the real working world expecting their employers and colleges to give them as many "chances" as they need to succeed. Guess what? It doesn't work that way!

Anyway, I like NCLB much better than OBE, but I bet we see it come around sometime later...)

Gunny462
11-05-2006, 05:15 AM
please tell me one thing thing that bush has done for us

Re-instated the signing of all military retiree's official documents. Which Clinton stopped doing after hearing rumours that (soon to be) retirees were throwing their doc's in the trash (mine hands proudly on my 'ME' wall but then again mine was signed by GW). Highest servicemens salary pay raises in over 4 years (after eight friggin Clinton years of 3.0 raises).

BTW Kerry didn't just slam current military servicemembers (<-- my attempt at being PC) but he slammed past and future members as well, including his own prececoius swift boat buddies. In esscent what he said was.. If your stoopid your cannon fodder and get sent off to war, what was surprising was that a racist remark wasn't included in his offhanded remark.. DOH! SO what happened to him? He runs away and hides for 48 hours and his writer apologizes for omitting a punchline. On another point. He never actually apologized for anything. I'm sorry you didn't get my joke...? uuuuh Mr. Kerry, YOU forgot to include the punchline so how could ANYONE get the joke? Why doesn't he care? Why should he when people could give a rats-hind end about a servicemembers life unless it's on some friggin tally/poll on CNN or it serves some politicians hidden agenda. You who BELIEVE he did nothing wrong or believe he honestly apologized are the ones I truly 'feel' for cuz Kerry could care less about you.

Done ranting. I voted Rep (not hardline) and will continue just like 85 or so percent of all servicemembers and retirees.

YOOOO V.S hows the Chute? ;)

vikingshadow
11-05-2006, 06:59 AM
Gunny! Long time no hear from! How's the cow?

The kids LOVE the chute! I have to climb up in the tree every other week or so to untangle it because of the dang wind, but it works great! I used it as a large covering for a picnic a few weeks ago as well...a very LARGE covering, LOL! We kept having to find more poles to prop it up! We tried doubling it, but the silk or whatever it's made of is so slippery.....