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View Full Version : What would you do....? A question of integrity


tigerdave714
01-11-2006, 03:42 PM
I was reading through another forum and stumbled across a debate that stemmed from a sticky situation during a game of speedball. The story was that a back player wasn't really paying attention and was nearly bunkered. An opposing player was running towards him, but someone from the sidelines yelled "Dude, you're about to get bunkered" and it gave the player just enough time to turn and fire. He shot out the guy who was coming in for the bunker move, and then he continued to play.

In the argument that stemmed from this little scenario, several people were using the the statement "what would you do?" to prove their point but no one has actually answered their own question. So now I would like to ask you all. Here we go... Imagine yourself as the back player. You're rocking the game and holding your opponents down. Then suddenly you hear one of your buddies (who should know better) yell from the sidelines that you're about to get capped. What would you do? (see poll above)

claustrophobia9
01-11-2006, 03:49 PM
who am i? the bunkerer, the back guy, or the yeller?

TheRedBarron
01-11-2006, 03:52 PM
Taking clues from the crowd is common, personally when i am playing i tend to block out everything that is going on besides on the feild, I have kind of locked down on my teamates voices and i tend to only listen to them and the coach (if allowed). but I would probably be upset if that happened to me, and I would expect the person to learn from his mistake.

claustrophobia9
01-11-2006, 03:54 PM
id pwn his face and then smack talk the guy like i was the bomb digity

aodsnyper
01-11-2006, 04:05 PM
if i ended up hearing it, i'm sure i would look fast and probably heed his warning... unfortunately. as much as i'd like to say i wouldn't, i bet it would happen.

justin

Ares
01-11-2006, 04:43 PM
i would prolly act on what the guy said. when i see someone is about to get bunkered, i shut my mouth cuz its usually funny to watch

vikingshadow
01-11-2006, 05:06 PM
This is one of those hypothetical questions that you can't ever answer, because no one really knows what they would do in that particular situation. You would hope that you do the right thing, but you never know.

However, if I had the wherewithal to realize what was happening, I would probably shoot the incoming player, continue playing and then after the game ream the fellow out big time (if one of my teammates.) Of course, it depends on the situation. Is this a tournament or a rec game? I would hope I wouldn't do that in a rec game, but in a tournament where points matter, and if the ref didn't do anything about it, then I'd take the opportunity for the points. Cheating? I don't think so. It's not like I asked him to do it, fans are yelling things all the time anyway, and if the refs hear it and don't do anything about it, oh well! It's a very gray area in here...

The problem is, after a lifetime of playing team sports, like Barron said, you tend to ignore those not on the field, so I kinda doubt I would even hear them unless they were right next to me and shouting like crazy...

covert24
01-11-2006, 05:08 PM
id pwn his face and then smack talk the guy like i was the bomb digity


Yeii Yeii yea just keep playing and own his face along with some other chest/nut shots. even tho the sidelines guy was just trying to help its not right to give one team the advantage unfairly by calling out where veryone was. that kid that yelled probably felt like a dumbass after he said that.

shunut
01-11-2006, 05:12 PM
If I heard him, which I doubt I would because I hear nothing but the people on the field and the paintballs hitting near me, I would turn and shoot the guy. Then I'd probably have a talk with whoever yelled it out on the sidelines.

If I was the guy who was shot out because the yeller, I'd probably bonus ball the yeller.

QAZ123
01-11-2006, 05:25 PM
I went for the 1 for 1 if it's in a rec game but in all honesty if I'm still in the very back bunker right beside the entrance (which I'm pretty sure is where the player was in the vid) I should to be shot anyway for not moving!

Another scenario would be me telling the person helping me to shut the f*** up and getting shot while doing so! :cool:

I'm an honest player and alway's will be but I curse and scream and hollar when I see thing's that just aren't respectful or just plain wrong!

JB.

Sac
01-11-2006, 05:29 PM
i'd turn and rip the dudes face off, keep playing, win the game, then thank the guy who yelled. anything goes as long as you dont get caught, if you think the other team wouldnt cheat you in the blink of an eye your ignorant.

bomberpilot07
01-11-2006, 05:35 PM
play fair. i had some stupid moron i know trying to tell me to bump and bunker a guy but i ignored him and yelled at him at the end of the game.

vikingshadow
01-11-2006, 05:40 PM
Again, I think that most people would say differently if this were happening during a tournament where points matter, and an entry fee, paint costs, moving to the finals, etc were at stake. Seems peoples morals change when there's something tangible on the line.

Also, again, not that this is cheating. At least I don't think so. I mean, you are taking advantage of something that you didn't set up or ask for. This is the thing Clint Eastwood talks about in Hamburger Hill. Adapt and overcome.

And sac is right. The people who talk about how honest they were in a tournament are usually the one's watching the finals from the bleachers or going home early...

Hoppy11
01-11-2006, 05:58 PM
Id turn and shoot him just out of reaction. I would feel bad about it.. depending on the team we were playing or who it was. There are some real a-holes at my field. If it was some one cool I'd call myself out.

chubb0rz
01-11-2006, 06:15 PM
Seeing how i mostly play PSP 5man style coaching is allowed so i would listen and shoot the guy out. More than likely if i was playing nppl style i would still listen to the guy because its out of practice.

Xecutiv3
01-11-2006, 06:55 PM
I'd probably shoot the oncoming guy and not worry about the right or wrong of it. It's not like having a headset in your helm with a spotter telling you all the moves, or to all you CS guys, "ghosting".

tigerdave714
01-11-2006, 07:39 PM
Interesting responses. Thanks for the input and keep it coming. I realize that coaching from the sidelines is legal in certain series and not in others, so some people might not have a problem with accepting coaching from the side. Having never played by those rules, I wouldnt be comfortable dishing out an elimination like that. If I didn't see him coming, its my own fault. Don't get me wrong... I would take the shot. It would be hard not to. Coaching or no coaching, I would rather shoot someone than get shot anyday! But I would give him the 1 for 1 for getting the drop on me (and I would try find the guy who coached from the sidelines and slap him around a little for good measure).

As far as the "if you think the other team isn't cheating, you're ignorant" thing goes... I dont really care what they're doing. I've watched people wipe off hits I scored on them, or just plain ignore a clear elimination (refs included). Doesn't change the fact that I'd rather play an honest game myself... even if that means going home early. If you have to cheat to be a serious baller, I dont want to be a serious baller. Just personal pref I guess.

phatphil
01-11-2006, 07:41 PM
- Shooting the incoming player.
- Play until you are shot, "play on" makes it sound like you are "playing on" as in with a hit.
- I would yell at whoever said it during the game

ttink
01-11-2006, 07:47 PM
This is from Tygers vid isnt it :tongue:

To be honest, in this situation, if i got the warning, i would have shot him out. No one wants to be bunkered. But if someone I was going to bunker was told my position, i would have ben royally pissed at them (the person on the sidelines). Its hard to say....

QAZ123
01-11-2006, 07:55 PM
As far as the "if you think the other team isn't cheating, you're ignorant" thing goes... I dont really care what they're doing. I've watched people wipe off hits I scored on them, or just plain ignore a clear elimination (refs included). Doesn't change the fact that I'd rather play an honest game myself... even if that means going home early. If you have to cheat to be a serious baller, I dont want to be a serious baller. Just personal pref I guess.
ditto

I'm trying to think of the "character" quote in the video but can't and I can't download it at home.

JB

tigerdave714
01-11-2006, 08:14 PM
"Sports do not build character. They reveal it."

vikingshadow
01-12-2006, 04:00 AM
Character? In this case, I don't think character has much to do with paintball anywhere outside of rec ball or woodsball. Like I said in my post above, when there is money on the line, or prizes, character is defined by the level of play and where a particular team is in the standings at that particular time of day. In my mind, when in Rome, do as the Romans...In rec, play honest because 9 times out of 10, they are just having fun and it's not that stressful of a situation. In tournament, play the way the tournament is played.

Ok, here's how I see it - character wise. Everyone is either saying blow the guy up, or take a 1 for 1. NEITHER is what I would consider totally "honest." You shot that guy out, and he left the field, right? That happened ONLY because someone told you. To be TOTALLY honest, you'd just surrender and let the guy have the points, no 1 for 1...(Note, I said not totally honest, not cheating. There's a difference in my mind!)

I've seen these so called "honest" ballers on forums like PBnation talk about being virtuous in character and then turn around and cuss the original poster out for being a noob. I've seen them speak volumes on the virtues of not wiping or playing on, them celebrate pro teams and players (like Lasoya and others) that do it constantly (and we've all seen it!) I've seen them RAIL on kids that are 10 years old who dare post a video (not just on pbnation either) and then talk about how could they are on the field. Character in paintball?

Total Character in paintball is pretty non-existant in tournament paintball in my opinion. It's reserved for those teams that never play further than the prelims and wonder why. It's great to be able to say that, but I think paintball has it's own brand of character and it's selective from day to day. It's great we have some many people who are honest here, but the honest people I've seen have only been about 85% honest, when it suits them. Personally, I feel my character is pretty decent. If I shoot a guy because someone told me he was coming, it's not my fault there's a jerk on the sideline (and he/she is one for saying that) that warned me. I just took advantage of the situation. I don't feel this is a character flaw. NOT talking to the person who shouted about it and gloating about your wonderful play is a flaw in character.

Character, to me, encompasses ALL aspects of life, not just pulling a 1 for 1 in a sport that a specific occurance came up. It includes honesty, sportsmanship, steadfastness, courage, etc...

************************************************** ********

For those who tl;dr - I don't think this reveals a flaw in character.

DexGtr
01-12-2006, 06:12 AM
i'm with vike on this one.....i'll shoot the dude, and let the guy that yelled know that wasn't so cool, but i would not go 1 for 1, i would continue to play until i get hit.

it's really funny how some people react to this, i mean somebody yells at you that your going to get bunkered you do not shoot him first but you WAIT for the dude to bunker you? :confused: i mean c'mon WTF? and personally I don't believe anybody's going to do that. :rolleyes:

and character? basing a persons character based on what he did in a paintball field is pretty judgemental. when your out there and your adrenaline is flowing, your instincts take over, you can't really stop and think about the morality of the issue at hand.

Santy
01-12-2006, 06:41 AM
if you kinda look at the responses, the more "tournament oriented" guys all say take advantage of the situation, take out the guy an keep playing, other people say to take a 1 for 1. Like vike said, in a tournament theres alot more on the line then in recball.

If it was a tournament I'd take the guy out and keep playing. If it was recball I'd probably go for a one for one or just take it, cause at my local fields they only bunker you with a couple shots (they try) in the leg or pack

NINJA EDIT: What vid is this from?

and we need the ninja smiley.

QAZ123
01-12-2006, 06:52 AM
High resolution (http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/fps/FPS5xhi.wmv)

Mid resolution (http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/fps/FPS5.wmv)

Low resolution (http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/fps/FPS5lo.wmv)

I was tempted not to post just cause I don't like the idea of somebody bashing on Tyger which might happen but I'm sure most have seen it. Tyger's a great guy I can't wait to play with him sometime!

And just for the record if you were in his situation you would be pissed!!! No if's and's or but's you would not take that situation lightly if it was you! I know I would be ticked especially afterward's when the guy that told the player is still smarting off!

JB.

tigerdave714
01-12-2006, 09:41 AM
I'm man enough to admit when Im wrong and Vike just made a good point. In order to play ABSOLUTELY fair, one would have to just suck it up and take the elimination. Why? because without the warning you'd never have seen it coming.

On a side note, I would like to salute everyone who has posted so far. I was a little nervous after I posted this because I thought it might be a hot-button issue for some of us. We obviously disagree but we're handling it like gentlemen. Everyone seemed to blow up about this on other forums (myself included) but Im glad to see that we can have a civilized discussion here. Good job guys.

QAZ123
01-12-2006, 09:59 AM
Yeah I wouldn't sit there and let somebody shoot me but I think if I was in the situation I would shoot back so as to not get shot and pull a one for one still that's still my answer to resolve the situation still in a recball game.

JB.

claustrophobia9
01-12-2006, 12:03 PM
sac is right, but even if it was rec, id still throw a bb or two.

Recon by Fire
01-12-2006, 06:57 PM
Tyger is out. You finish the game and tell loud mouth cheating dude on the sideline to STFU and not ruin the game.

bigred76
01-12-2006, 07:38 PM
:yeahthat: If I were in that situation I would take the hint and shoot the guy. It's just a reaction to follow advice for me, much as I hate it. :crazy:

geeZus
01-13-2006, 08:54 AM
I'd shoot the guy, shoot the rest of them and then thank the guy on the sideline. Screw integrity, I'm there to win money.

Ares
01-13-2006, 11:53 AM
it was walk on recball lol

geeZus
01-13-2006, 12:01 PM
He never made the distinction in the first post as to whether it was in rec ball or a tourney. He just said speedball.

Xecutiv3
01-13-2006, 12:17 PM
I thought there was something at stake, like a tourny, I'd still shoot the bunkerer, but i'd tell the crowd guy to be quiet, no need for the bunkerer to know that i know that i'm going to be bunkered.... exactly

claustrophobia9
01-13-2006, 12:21 PM
rec ball shmeck ball, if the guy gets pissed and says you cheated by listening to the guy then he has issues. because if one guy gets pissed that you acted unsportsman like then he is a hipocrit(sp sp sp sp sp!) that simple. eat or be eaten.