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Nenkitsune
10-11-2006, 10:40 PM
ok, so in my random thoughts, i was thinking of a way to make a single tube blowback design that would move the bolt/striker, backwards instead of forwards. after a while i figured a way to make it for the most part, boltless, and here's a gif!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/half_breed/boltless.gif

claustrophobia9
10-12-2006, 03:14 AM
the cycle and hole will need to be larger than a paintball to avoid chopping.

Nenkitsune
10-12-2006, 03:43 AM
i forgot to mention that it's not to scale, so the actual thing (if it were to be made) would have a lot of diffrences. that little animation just shows teh basic design and function lol

thechubbss12
10-12-2006, 06:05 AM
Thats pretty sick idea....

Instead of using springs to push the hammer thing back a foward.. i think a Noid would give you a better performance...

Nenkitsune
10-12-2006, 01:01 PM
yeah, your probably right about it. but i wanted to do was basically have an extremly high flow blowback design, but with only 1 peice for the bolt assembly. i ended up revising it till i got that design. it would be extremly high flow, since the blowback air would also be the air to propel the ball. the holes would be staggerd so when the hammer gets closer to the ram, more pressure is applied to the hammers face. originally it was going to be a bolt that the ball enters, then moves back, but i ran into problems when i was thinking about the ball moving backwards. a noid would be interesting though. it would be a 2way noid though, since the space is limited. the innersleeve would be the inside wall of the ram sleeve, and the body would be the outer wall. the "bolt" would end up being the ram. i could actually make it a fasor in that case, with a spring attached to the front of the inner sleeve, and the "bolt"

Farva
10-12-2006, 04:27 PM
theres actually a gun made a few years back that had a similar design. it had no bolt i think it was called the epic

Farva
10-12-2006, 04:32 PM
http://www.onlyepic.talkspot.com/aspx/templates/pro6.aspx?msgid=81408

Thats the link to a vid of it its kinda kool

Nenkitsune
10-12-2006, 05:21 PM
yeah, i remember looking at the epic before and figuring out how they work. i wasn't thinking of it though when i designed my idea lol in a way my idea could be a simpler versino of an epic haha

claustrophobia9
10-12-2006, 05:40 PM
epic is fairly similar but they lowered reciprocating mass by removing the entirty of the moving section and making it just a door instead. this lowers kick and raises speed, making it a good option.

Nenkitsune
10-12-2006, 05:45 PM
so in a way the design i came up with is a good design? i came up with it because i wanted to try and make something with an airflow of practically a straight line lol i think by making it a fasor type design it would work better.
i thought of another way of increasing it's power. by making the hole that powers teh ball, a velocity stack of sorts. in cars, a velocity stack takes the incoming air and compresses it, increasing it's speed. i think if i made it into a type of velocity stack it would help

Total90Oliver
10-12-2006, 06:48 PM
if you can get that to work out, i will send you $200 bucks...:dodgy:

Nenkitsune
10-12-2006, 07:38 PM
lol well maybe i should start cutting up some pipes and see what happens. i think i could actually turn it into a pistol, since the sleeve would make a short barrel. of course, i don't own any of the materials i need to make this. if i had a lathe and some delrin tubing and aluminum, i could build it. the nice thing, it's all a bunch of tubes haha

bigred76
10-12-2006, 09:32 PM
Seems almost like a Mag's operation to me... Run with it as far as you can! :)

Nenkitsune
10-12-2006, 09:44 PM
haha, and i will. this design is going to stay in my mind forever. it's a very simple design actually, and i figured out how to get everything put together. it's actually going to be a magnetic return. see, because of the way the hammer/bolt sleeve are attached, it will also have blowback. the bolt sleeve will double as a ram, and will have a magnetic ring on it. the front of the inner sleeve would have the other ram, so when the assembly blows back, the magnets hold the assembly in the cocked position for the solenoid to fire it again. i'm going to make another animation of it, but try to make it to scale.
i made a new image of the gun, instead using the magnetic ram and a solenoid. i didn't put in the lines for the passageways though inside the valve and hammer. LP path is light blue, HP path is magenta. the micro line goes from the bottom of the gun, through the frame, out the grip, and into a regulator. i was thinking it would be cool if it had a standard reg fitting inside the gripframe, then the micro going to an on/off on the grip, but i didn't feel like drawing it all in PS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/half_breed/3copy.jpg
the grips have all the electronics (hmm sounds familiar) anyways this picture is closer to scale than my animation.
btw, it won't have any cocking device on it (it doesn't need it haha) the detents are going to be part of the inner sleeve, and slots are going to be cut into the sides of the "bolt" for the detents to be able to fit. the plus of this is that they also function as guides for the bolt/ram/hammer assembly

thechubbss12
10-13-2006, 04:51 AM
Im in the process of drawing a blueprint up for this....

But my sorry engenering skills are slowing me down LOL...

Ahh and i have designed it were the air will run through the trigger frame, and the selenoid will be a manifold noid... I have it designed with a clamshell frame like a timmy so i can actuly run the larger size air hose through it...

Nenkitsune
10-13-2006, 06:20 AM
oh, just for a referance, that very light grey spot in the breech, is roughly .68in

cether
11-29-2006, 04:24 PM
i had a design just like that. i dont know how to return or pop back the bolt b/c i wanted to use air and i wanted a thread barrel. I turn it into a close bolt single tube poppit marker.

Your "bolt" has a design to push a ball and keep it in the feed. i did the something. Good thinking.

I like the noid placement.

Hob Hayward
11-29-2006, 04:53 PM
I have a flaw with this design :(. If it runs by blowback your going to get crazy choppage, unless you have a really fast loader. Remember your 40 cps cycle tests nen? This will recock just as fast if not faster, thus the time that the breach is open will be too short for a pb to be loaded. Also, I think the position of the opening in the bolt in the second pic is wrong, when its at a standstill it should be closed correct? Basically this is like a cocker without the pneums or the striker.

Looks good though. If I am right with what I said before, a one way noid would be sufficient to make it work. Though I just noticed another potential problem, if its blowforward, it won't be all the way forwards or backwards when the pb fires, it will be moving as the air goes forwards and thus possibly up the feed :(.

I hope I'm wrong in my projections there.

yamaha cow
11-29-2006, 06:29 PM
what about making it some how pneumatic. like the ION

Hob Hayward
11-29-2006, 06:43 PM
Then it would BE an ion.

yamaha cow
11-30-2006, 12:47 PM
well you could do it differently.

Nenkitsune
11-30-2006, 05:51 PM
the bolt moves backwards to fire XP, not forward. a pneum would push thebolt backwards against the valve, then the air would then go through holes in the valve face, and through the bolt/hammer assembly to fire the ball then it would either be blown back into the cocked position and have magnets to hold it in the cocked position, or maybe a spring to hold it

Hob Hayward
11-30-2006, 08:02 PM
That would work, but then it just becomes a fasor without the ram. But the problem of blowby still exists... Though, using a noid you could probably get the dwell just right so it opens the valve and then the valve closes while the bolt is still back enough for there to be no blowby.

Nenkitsune
12-01-2006, 11:42 AM
well the pictures aren't pefectly to scale, but yeah, that's how it would work. the bolt/hammer also doubles as the ram. the bolt would be long enough so that blowby wouldn't be a problem. i'm just not that good at getting all the happy stuff down XP. and i failed to remember just how long the valvepin would be. it would be shorter than what's shown, so by the time the valve is closed, the breech is still sealed

Nenkitsune
12-05-2006, 02:54 PM
I thought of a better way to make this work, same design overall, but instead of the bolt being a ram, it would have an external ram actuated by a soleniod. the ram would be attached to the bolt with some sort of pin, and then be attached to a noid. Basically an autococker's ram

.21'[~tw!tch*
04-16-2007, 11:42 AM
ok, so in my random thoughts, i was thinking of a way to make a single tube blowback design that would move the bolt/striker, backwards instead of forwards. after a while i figured a way to make it for the most part, boltless, and here's a gif!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/half_breed/boltless.gif


Automag Valve Minus Bolt.. :)

If your interested in a Automag valve I have a few.

.;p3ace:.

shunut
04-16-2007, 02:49 PM
This thread has seen no activity in almost 4 months, please do not post in threads that are this old. Thanks.