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View Full Version : upgrade or Ion?


opterasis
07-31-2006, 04:56 PM
I know, I know. I'm sure you guys have gotten this question a million times before. I have an Xtra with no upgrades except a SP linear barrel. I was thinking about upgrading alot of it, feed neck, electronic rocking trigger, evil driver barrel, drop forward, regulator, new bolt, grips.

Now performance-wise, would I just be better off taking 350$ or so and buying an Ion starter kit (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G1EO5A/sr=1-4/qid=1154390103/ref=sr_1_4/104-6141033-5509509?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods)?

Sac
07-31-2006, 04:59 PM
too many people jump straight to buying an ion, theres honestly some other markers out there for just a little more that are vastly superior to ions, i notice nobody on the forums has purchased a Quest yet... there incredible for the price, i cant remember how much they go for, i'll edit that in, but just search for some other alternatives, all you will do with an ion is upgrade it to high heaven and try to sell it and it wont work.

edit- ok quests are a little pricey, my bad, but for 100 dollars more than the ion you could get a defiant 2, which imo is alot better out of the box than the ion.

opterasis
07-31-2006, 05:03 PM
I'll look into that one. Thanks for the opinion. It's just that I'm still fairly new to paintball, and from the talk I hear, I got the impression that an Ion is a fairly good gun at a decent price.

druid
07-31-2006, 05:53 PM
Ion or Diablo Wrath are both tourney "entry Level" guns - meaning they are designed to get you started. I can't speak about the Wrath because I only ever held one in the proshop. I can say it's got nice milling and anno...but that's about it.

SAC and Chris (he'll likely add later) seem to have limitless access to funds and guns...while they are experienced beyond most and 10-1 are better/faster players than the majority here combined...they always shoot for the 'high enders' and seem to slam what's in 'the middle'. In their defense, once you shoot Angels, Shockers, DMs and Borgs...I'd guess it's almost impossible to look back on the 'lesser' markers.

The Ion is a great marker, even in it's stock form. It's fast and light but ugly to look at. Everyone thinks of it as a 'tupperware noob cannon' or a 'Shocker wannabe' but that's an unfair judgement. It's not made to replace them...only to compete against them.

A stock Ion is better than a Spyder but nothing like a 'better' marker. Even when severely upped, no one thinks it's 'better' because "an Ion's still an Ion." I say differently. TBoard/Virtue/APE Rampage/Tadao/Lucky Stage 4 it, better barrel, QEV, shroter feedneck, ASA, and perhaps a reg (and actually, the stock reg isn't that bad at all...just ugly as Hell) only makes it operate better. A body kit only adds to it's visual flavor...unless you select a body that sports function like the few BOB models.

One thing a lot of people overlook is that they buy Spyders and end up upgrading them...sometimes to the max. The aspiration is to make a low pressure marker that has less 'recoil' and better efficiency. The Ion's already there. People are so quick to rip apart a $150 Imagine and put $385 in upgrades into it (adding up to about $535) when an Ion now costs 1/3rd that, with most of the work already done for you.

SharpObjects
07-31-2006, 06:16 PM
But wheres the thrill to upgrade? I love the look on people's faces when they ask what I was shooting them with, so fun.
I think it'd be better to "get better" with the Spyder. I think of it almost like playing pump. When you master something a little harder, like pump or stock, it makes everything else easier. I hope that made sense.

DisIsMyUsername
08-01-2006, 12:08 PM
Yea, I'm caught on the same boat right now.

I want a little more than what I can end up doing to my spyder. At this point I ended up fixing a TL+ to the point that it's better than my freakin pilot. So I was thinkin why should I have two guns that are pretty much equal? (The TL+ is for loaning purposes/my sis who thinks she likes paintball.)

Anyway, I got this idea of selling my pilot acs which is pretty much new, keeping the TL+ since I'm sure the TL isn't gonna sell as much as the pilot and I can put a little more money and get a Diablo Wrath for around 200 bucks and that already comes w/ eyes, good bolt, and all that good stuff. So what do you guys think of the Wrath?

So maybe you (Opterasis) should think of the same.

Don't mean to hi-jack your thread dude, but I didn't want to make another thread for the same question lol

druid
08-01-2006, 02:17 PM
well then click the "Bible" link in my sig...find "spyder pages" then "project LP".

Ace24
08-01-2006, 06:12 PM
Spend $400 and get a used Shocker or Timmy.

anemcek
08-02-2006, 05:18 AM
Sac, I actually just recently bought a used quest form the ceo of first endeavor for my first high end marker but still ended up paying just over 600. IF you are looking to buy used, dont get me wrong i love the quest, you could probably buy an upped shocker for less that will perfomr about the same (the qeust is more or less a fully upgraded shocker brand new).

As for making yoru lesser spyder better than your pilot, most of the time you can swith your upgrades to the gun you want to play with. Depending on my mood ill put all my lp stuff into either my imagine electra or tlr when i play and deccide if i want to use semi, rocking, or normal e-trigger. that is the nice thing about spyders is you can have a few buy universal ups and make all your guns better. Also they are much easier to maintain and sometimes you just dont want to have to baby the high end markers.

Me personally i wouldnt really go with the ion, i agree with ace and if you dont feel ike upgraded the spyder buy a used timmy, proto, or shocker since you already have a medium to low end marker.

Sac
08-02-2006, 07:34 AM
ameck, pics of your quest? i'm interested in seeing more of them. Druid i was not slamming the ion i was just saying it does require some upgrading before it really is "tourny ready" the defiant requires some as well, but not as much, mostly just a barrel.

anemcek
08-02-2006, 12:17 PM
Sac ill be able to get you some pics by the weekend. Let me know where you want me to send them.

Ace24
08-02-2006, 02:29 PM
What is a quest? Send me the pics too lol

stylinbeaver
08-02-2006, 02:47 PM
ya. Me too! I want to see it.

nbishop66
08-03-2006, 05:27 PM
I had 2 05 Pilot ACSs. One for my son, one for me. I spent quite a bit of money on LP upgrades, I wish I had all that money back. I just got 2 IONs in June, spent about $60 on each for upgrades (QEV and bolt) and they are killa' compared to the Pilots and I spent well over a $100 each on upgrades for them. If you want to spend more time tweaking your gun than shooting it, spend the money on all the LP upgrades for the Spyder. If you want to gas up and go get yourself an ION.

As for that Package Deal: That Hopper sucks/useless, get an Evolution II, $68 Action Village. The bottle is too small, I would suggest a 68/3000. You won't get many shots out of the 48.

But opinions are like A**holes. Every have one and everyone elses stinks! Just my $.02 from my experiences screwing with Kingmans, not worth it. If you have your heart set on a Spyder I wouldn't recommend spending money going LP. Just do the major upgrades, i.e. barrel, fast hopper and grips...

Is this the Quest? This thing is $895 No where near the price of an ION.
First Endeavor Quest Paintball Marker Blue Dust
95

Jimmyd24
08-09-2006, 09:05 PM
does diablo have many upgrades for their guns, i know ions have like limitless upgrade possiblities

Nenkitsune
08-09-2006, 09:56 PM
i would rather upgrade my gun than buy an ion. why? becaus eit's a spyder.
A guy at the paintball shop asked my why i'm bothering to upgrade my spyder so much, and my answer (and one other guy's answer) was simply because it's a spyder. it's fun having a gun that's on par with a higher end gun, that looks like something that wouldn't even be close to it. and the fact that when i'm done, it's personalized with my touch and knowledge that i built it myself. there's a spoiled kid i know that's on his 7th gun (his mom buys him everything) I have his old rebel and 12v revvy because "he forgot about them" since he got an egg and now uses an imagine, which he only put a j&j ceramic on it, no other parts. and he wants an ion now. he never upgrades guns, just asks mommy for a new one when he gets bored. my friends buying the imagine and barrel for 70 bucks. I guess he's one of the biggest reasons why i'll upgrade my gun to it's full potential before i buy a new one

nbishop66
08-10-2006, 07:41 AM
there's a spoiled kid i know that's on his 7th gun (his mom buys him everything) I have his old rebel and 12v revvy because "he forgot about them" since he got an egg and now uses an imagine, which he only put a j&j ceramic on it, no other parts. and he wants an ion now. he never upgrades guns, just asks mommy for a new one when he gets bored.

Well the "Spoiled Kid" might not have the skills to upgrade the gun. I consider myself pretty mechanically inclined and found myself very frustrated at times, disassembling my marker to swap out springs, polish this, polish that, drill this hole bigger, drill that hole bigger and Contouring cup seals to give them better flow. Not to mention the hours spent trying to find the right spring combination for the stock striker, then go out and buy a Titanium Striker and have to do it all over again. And then after everything was said and done, find out that your still only at 350 psi shooting 260 fps and dropped $140 in upgrades x2.

On a side not when I was using my 05 Pilot ACS at my local field when it was stock I was playing back and ripping a stream up paint for cover fire I heard one of the refs say to another ref, "I've never seen a Spyder shoot that fast". Kingman does make a decent gun. My only point is unless your going to make modding the Spyder into a hobby, there are guns that operate more efficiently, more quietly, have more technology and can rip much faster out of the box for close to the same $$.

P.S. Give that stuff back you thief! ;)

bamf-hacker
08-10-2006, 07:48 AM
Well the "Spoiled Kid" might not have the skills to upgrade the gun. I consider myself pretty mechanically inclined and found myself very frustrated at times, disassembling my marker to swap out springs, polish this, polish that, drill this hole bigger, drill that hole bigger and Contouring cup seals to give them better flow. Not to mention the hours spent trying to find the right spring combination for the stock striker, then go out and buy a Titanium Striker and have to do it all over again. And then after everything was said and done, find out that your still only at 350 psi shooting 260 fps and dropped $140 in upgrades x2.


Very Well Put!!!

Yes you can upgrade a Spyder, and it is fun to do. But in the end you still have a blow back Spyder, unless you go the route Shunut did and make a Spimmy. But then you are spending a lot of money, and it is more Timmy than Spyder.

I say if you have the money, upgrade the Spyder because is it fun to say you have a Spyder that runs at 300psi, but buy the Ion to be your main play marker.

durrell
08-10-2006, 07:56 AM
In my opinion, upping the Spyder is worthless because in the end it is simply not going to perform on the level than an Ion and upper guns will perform. Regardless of how many balls per second you can force your Spyder to shoot or how LP you get it, the Ion, Promaster, Wrath, etc. is still going to outperform it in the long run in several areas such as kick, efficiency, and just overall better performance. The Ion is a MUCH better investment in that if you buy it and are unhappy, you can find someone to buy it. But if you up the Spyder, you're going to lose money..it's a given.

bamf-hacker
08-10-2006, 08:13 AM
Hey I know this great store you can get an Ion from...

CPS :)

opterasis
08-10-2006, 09:13 AM
Well getting rid of the spyder would be no problem. My gfs parents already are willing to pay 120$ for my xtra (with a new barrel and 9oz tanks).

And BAMF, I would buy from there, but I have about 300$ in amazon gift cards stock piled. I saw an ion pro on amazon for 315, with a freak back and front, a new feedneck, the blue body kit. But that price seems a little low to me. Is there something I'm missing?

bamf-hacker
08-10-2006, 09:29 AM
no that is about right for the Ion pro...

Jimmyd24
08-10-2006, 10:34 AM
If I were you, I would skip the ion pro, even though it is a good deal, and I would get the basic ion and upgrade the board to a virtue (130) or like a blackheart(100). I think those upgrades will give you better performance than the pro model can

Nenkitsune
08-10-2006, 04:13 PM
Well the "Spoiled Kid" might not have the skills to upgrade the gun. I consider myself pretty mechanically inclined and found myself very frustrated at times, disassembling my marker to swap out springs, polish this, polish that, drill this hole bigger, drill that hole bigger and Contouring cup seals to give them better flow. Not to mention the hours spent trying to find the right spring combination for the stock striker, then go out and buy a Titanium Striker and have to do it all over again. And then after everything was said and done, find out that your still only at 350 psi shooting 260 fps and dropped $140 in upgrades x2.



P.S. Give that stuff back you thief! ;)
well, it's not that he doesn't have the skills, it's just that he's to lazy to even try or even have the will to want to upgrade guns. basically, after about 4 months, he'll get bored of his stock ion, and ask his mom for a better gun. it bugs me that he won't try to do anything to his gun and claims to know so much. I offered to do some stock mods to his gun, and he basically said he doesn't care about his gun. i asked if he wanted the revvy and rebel back and he said, "i have a revvy? whatever, keep it" so now it's my q-loaders helper

I'm also pretty mechanically inclined. even though i do lack tools
I enjoy tearing my gun apart to polish this, swap out that, drill this out bigger and so on and so forth. I guess that's just how i am though.

Jimmyd24
08-12-2006, 09:57 PM
im still wainting for someone to make fun of my repsonse..l.