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View Full Version : Refurbished Imagine wooping My Pilot!!! Help!!!


nietotim
07-24-2006, 07:57 AM
Hello all. I am new to this site, as well as new to the paint-ball scene. About 3 weeks ago, the idea of paint ball came up in my Sunday School Class (I am the Youth Pastor). If you know me, you would know that once I have my mind set on something I need to do it. I immediately started researching and found that most recommended the Imagine. I looked on ebay and found a good deal on a refurbished one for $100 with mask, tank, hopper and more. I ended up buying two guns for two of my friends. I waited as I did not have the money to buy one. So during my wait I found the Pilot, which I thought to be a better gun, sure enough I bought it. Shortly there after I convinced my brother and another friend to get Pilots.

Just to summarize it all. I have a Pilot, My brother has a Pilot, My friend has a Pilot and I got two friends who have Imagines.

I built a paint ball field in my backyard (I have an Acre of Land). We have since played about 5 times with about 6 games each time. I cant help but notice that the Imagines seem to be shooting very straight and accurate compared to my Pilot. I thought it was maybe my gun, but I looked at all the pilots and they all are being out shot by the other guys Imagines. Out of the 30 games I have probably been hit about 6 times so I don't want you all to think its because I am no good. We are also all using the same balls, filling tanks at same place.

Finally the question:
Are the Imagines better and more accurate? If so what can I do to make my pilot better? Sell it? (My brother is ready to sell his, its only a week old)

Please help, Its like having to screw in a straight screw with a Allen wrench.

SharpObjects
07-24-2006, 08:03 AM
I'm not sure why an Imagine would shoot more straight. Perhaps a new barrel would fix your problem, since stock barrels are never the greatest.

I recommend a J&J cermaric barrel, you can find them pretty cheap. But they are very well made, and if a ball ever breaks in the barrel, shooting a few time cleans it. See what others say.

Congrats on your purchases by the way!

nietotim
07-24-2006, 08:24 AM
Thanks for the Reply.
I had the same thought. Why would an Imagine shoot better than the Pilot? But believe me, it is, I still hold my own and have not tried shooting their guns, but I will try that barrel.

SharpObjects
07-24-2006, 08:30 AM
No problem, just look around and check reviews at pbreview.com to see what interests you. There are many other barrels to consider too.

vwjimmy
07-24-2006, 09:29 AM
I think Pilot barrels (at least the sprial ones) are really bad....
trade with an Imagine and try it again!

paintballman330
07-24-2006, 10:00 AM
dont trade it in for the imagine because the pilot is better its way faster to 20bps and the imagine only does 14bps

skate_emerica
07-24-2006, 10:07 AM
Yeah deffiantly it could be your barrel. The stock one it looks cool and all but thats as far as you go with it. Upgradeing your barrel to a 14 inch should do the trick. Maybe an all american , 32 degrees , or evil barrel should do it. If one of your friends have an upgraded barrel ask to use it and try that sucker out on your Pliot. I personally would recommend the 32 degrees wisper barrel I bought it and have had no trouble since. Also what gas were you using? If your friends where shooting HPA they might have the upperhand on you if your shooting c02.

Darkh2o
07-24-2006, 10:07 AM
dont trade it in for the imagine because the pilot is better its way faster to 20bps and the imagine only does 14bps

I think what vwjimmy is saying is to switch BARRELS and try it out. Not switch guns.:o

nietotim
07-24-2006, 11:14 AM
Wow!!! Thanks for all the replies. We are all using co2 at this point. Believe it or not me and my brother are probably the ones that have the most knowledge when it comes to paintball, at least out of the 5 of us. I will look into buying a new barrel. I currently have the stock spiral one. Which one is the best bang for your buck? I also have pictures of my field if anyone is interested, I put it together over a weekend. If anyone lives around San Antonio texas look me up.

ooglieboogliebob
07-24-2006, 01:23 PM
dont trade it in for the imagine because the pilot is better its way faster to 20bps and the imagine only does 14bps

Wrong. Imagines are 14bps as well as Pilots which are 14bps. The Pilot ACS has a different board that makes it able to go up to 20bps.


Stock barrel isn't the best bang for you buck cuz you didn't even pay for it ... :p Stock barrels are ususally given away for free, since they just arn't good !!! Do some searches, and learn how to maintain your gun. You should be taking your gun apart and cleaning it after every play, unless you want the gun to break only after a few months of use, rather than many plentiful years ...

Check the paintball bible or .. www.ottersccustoms.com Read it inside out and backwards. It will tell you how to strip, maintain, upgrade, and ect. Paint to bore match is the key to accuracy. Try getting a Smart Parts Progressive, J&J Ceramic, or a CP 1 piece. Great barrels, and very cheap. The next best thing you can get is a barrel kit. Good luck.

nietotim
07-24-2006, 01:41 PM
I had failed to mention that my brother had bought a barrel kit when he bought his gun. Needless to say it did not improve his shot at all. But then again I don't know if the brand is any good. I believe he told me it was a brand called AIM and its a two piece barrel and comes with a 12, 14 and 16 inch barrrel.

vikingshadow
07-24-2006, 03:38 PM
Well, this isn't going to be a popular thing, but here goes.

Sometimes, fellows, the reason a "gun" shoots more accurately is because it's the person holding the gun. Barrels help, ball to barrel matching helps, correct speeds, blah blah blah, all help, but when it comes right down to it, if the person shooting the gun can't shoot, you aren't going to hit anything. Go out and practice, and even with the crappy stock barrel, you should do ok.

Don't look for a barrel to be the magic cure here. I know you guys all probably know that, but no one mentioned it yet.

nietotim
07-24-2006, 03:44 PM
thanks for the reply.
I understand what you are saying. And as I mentioned before, even though the Imagines are shooting better, I have still managed to outlast and out play them. I am sure I can use practice but I can see the balls coming out of the barrel and going upwards, sideways and downwards in different directions. I will practice, just figure I should be practicing with a more accurate barrel. Thanks Again.

viperx6x9x
07-24-2006, 04:19 PM
speaking of paint to barrel matching, what balls are larger bore. ive been using a progressive 14" and monster balls. probly not the best being that their less expensive. but yeah either their really small bore, or both the stock pilot acs barrel and the progressive are large bore barrels cuz the balls seem to have the same fit in both of them.

point being i didnt think to get a barrel set with inserts and dont really want to get another barrel so i want to try and match the balls to the barrel now. Either way yeah, the progressive did help out on accuracy a little. Of course im no expert at aiming paintball guns, but im pretty good with normal firearms so i would hope that a little finer tuned equipment would help me out here.

ooglieboogliebob
07-24-2006, 04:23 PM
Please ... don't be lazy and do a search ... but until you learn ... here

http://www.ottersccustoms.com/paintc.html
http://www.ottersccustoms.com/barrelc.html

vwjimmy
07-24-2006, 05:27 PM
I did mean to borrow the barrel....not trade GUNS!!!!!
My Pilot stock barrels are really inaccurate, the stock marker with a 14" Progressive is suburb!!

viperx6x9x
07-24-2006, 05:35 PM
and please dont be lazy and just say otter customs like everyone else. the paintballs ive been using arent on that list. ive already looked there. and neither is the barrel. theres a boss progressive which ive never heard of though.

but i do thank you for giving me direct links. its just that i get annoyed with people flaming me assuming i didnt search for my info.

ooglieboogliebob
07-24-2006, 06:25 PM
Mosterball is about 0.684 in diameter
Progressive is about 0.689 - 0.690 in diameter

Got it now?? A little search on google got me a long way .....

nietotim
07-24-2006, 06:39 PM
Hey, Hey how did this get off track? Well even though the two of you are going back and forth, I have got some usefull information from you all. I too use the Monster Balls from Wal-Mart (I normally provide everyone who does not have balls with some). But I have also used the Heat Scorch and have tried the Zaps. So new question is, Would the new lets say Progressive or J&J barrel work well with the monster balls?

Also, Another Question.

My Brother also says that his barrel becomes very cold during play, he states that he also has alot of smoke/air coming out of his barrel everytime he shoots. I have personaly noticed his gun sputtering during shots, and this is on a full tank of co2.

Again, thank you all for all the help.

viperx6x9x
07-24-2006, 07:23 PM
box says it runs on C02 or HPA and if you dont fire too fast this is true. But after borrowing my buddies HPA tank and being able to fire as fast as i want i highly suggest HPA. accuracy i didnt really notice much of a change in but if just for rate of fire its a must.


dont know what the sputtering is though, sounds like what they call shoot down but that is kinda unusual with a fully pressurized tank.

vikingshadow
07-24-2006, 07:35 PM
Have you chronographed your guns to see how fast you're shooting? Sounds to me with the balls curving a lot that it could be you're shooting too hot (anything above 300 fps is considered hot, and is potentially dangerous.) If so, turn the speed down, and I bet you see a bit of difference.

But, stock barrels usually suck the big paintballs. You're right, you should practice with whatever barrel you'll end up using. A new barrel is ALWAYS the first thing on most people's upgrade list. A kit is a good way to go because you can match several different paints.

The barrel getting cold is just the after effect of Co2 being used. As it's being released into then out of the gun, it's cooling your gun down. Same goes for the cloud. Now, if you start seeing "snow" come out of the end, that's a bad thing. That means liquid Co2 is getting into your gun and you need to take steps to prevent that from happening again.

The sputtering I'm not sure about. Is it shooting more than once when you pull the trigger? If so, that's called bounce. The kick of the gun is moving the trigger back against the microswitch mechanically making the gun shoot rapidly. That's also dangerous because you're not in control of your gun. Mess around with the trigger to fix that.

viperx6x9x
07-24-2006, 07:46 PM
yeah the pilot acs will definitely trigger bounce if you adjust the trigger too close to the switch. I need to adjust mine, it was firing 2-3 shots per pull which is illegal in most tourneys i think. But that could be whats happening as well.

i dont know what fps the acs shoots stock cuz i didnt get a chance to chrono it when i got it. but after a few upgrades , valve, bolt, shim kit, it was shooting 360+ at the chrono. and yeah there was no way to control the shots. i had to tune it down for one so i didnt hurt somebody, and 2 just so i could have some control over the shots.

i think i got one shot off at 360 fps that actually went straight and it was pretty sweet but for the most part that high of a velocity is useless.

nietotim
07-25-2006, 04:39 AM
Well that makes a lot of sense. You don't know how much I appreciate that help. None of us have had our markers cronographed (spelling). I know I can buy one, but whats an alternative? Also my brothers marker is shooting more than one ball at a time and sometimes just misfires (not sure if thats the ACS doing its job or not).

vikingshadow
07-25-2006, 04:44 AM
Only alternative to buying a chronograph is to go to a field and use theirs. You can't judge the speed at all. I personally would buy one if you're going to outlaw ball much.

Again, not sure what you mean by "shooting more than one ball at a time." You mean it double shoots, or when he pulls the trigger, nothing happens so he recocks and then two balls come out? IF i's the first thing, it could be "bounce" that I talked about earlier - just mess with the trigger settings - or if it's the second, it could be that his bolt and striker need oiled. Didn't see this earlier, but did you guys buy these guns new or used?

Sandman_Bravo
07-25-2006, 05:11 AM
My stock detents failed in the second month I owned the gun. (detents hold ball in place art the end of the bolt/beginning of barrel-responsible for single ball feed) If you are chopping a lot, maybe they just need to be cleaned/oiled.

bamf-hacker
07-25-2006, 05:55 AM
Welcome to the world of Paintball.... Isn't it fun. :)

Now as for your chronograph, if you are thinking about playing on your renegade (not an official field) then get a hand held chrono that you can use EVERY time you play. I have one for sale if you are interested, just send me a PM.

It is very important to Chronograph your gun... The goggle lenses you are using are not rated to stop a paintball at over 300fps. That said if you are shooting VERY hot you can inflict serious damage and that is no fun.

As for your issues with the paintballs going in all directions coming out of the barrel... Can you get to a regular paintball store to get some paint? Paint needs to be stored properly to keep its shape. It needs to stay in a dry, cool (70ish degrees) and rotated weekly to keep them from dimpling. Trust me when I tell you Wal-Mart does not do that with the paint they sell :)

nietotim
07-25-2006, 08:37 AM
Only alternative to buying a chronograph is to go to a field and use theirs. You can't judge the speed at all. I personally would buy one if you're going to outlaw ball much.

Again, not sure what you mean by "shooting more than one ball at a time." You mean it double shoots, or when he pulls the trigger, nothing happens so he recocks and then two balls come out? IF i's the first thing, it could be "bounce" that I talked about earlier - just mess with the trigger settings - or if it's the second, it could be that his bolt and striker need oiled. Didn't see this earlier, but did you guys buy these guns new or used?

These guns, the Pilots, where bought new:) . Its doing the first thing, so I will have him adjust the trigger. Also, will try to get some balls from a paintball store, suggest a brand?

:D Sand man: Luckily enough I have not had a problem with chopping, so I think that part is okay. Thanks for the reply.

:confused: bamf-hacker: Well to tell you the truth, I am pretty sure the Imagines are running hot:( . They shoot and the gun sounds loud, not to mention when you get hit, they really hurt. I have personally checked the velocity adjuster and they aren't all the way closed. But I know you can't tell unless you have the machine to check it. I don't want anyone getting hurt. This is even my waiver for my field.

Name of Participant: ________________ Date of Birth_______________
Emergency Contact Number: __________________
Triple J Paintball Field
Rules
All players and spectators must read and follow these important guidelines. The purpose of these rules is to ensure safe play and sustain the level of organization and good sportsmanship necessary to keep paintball a positive, enjoyable activity. Participants will be restricted from play and may be ejected from the field for violating any of these safety rules.
• Listen to and follow the directions of the field's staff or owner.
• Everyone, including spectators, must wear a full-coverage, unaltered goggle/face mask system when on the field, or in any area where paintballs are shot. If mask is removed by any player, the game stops with no exceptions.
• No shooting into or out of staging area, and neutral zones. Barrel plug use is mandatory in these areas. Squeegees, sticks, rags, etc. are not barrel safety devices.
• Shooting is permitted only when on the field, at the target range or in a designated area. Do not shoot at signs, buildings, automobiles, airplanes, etc. Do not shoot at wildlife on the fields.
• Any person who litters, vandalizes or behaves in an unsafe manner will be expelled from the field. Do not "blind fire," do not climb trees, do not move or tamper with field structures, and do not create field hazards. Do not encourage unsafe play.
• Any person who engages in confrontational arguing, uses abusive or foul language, and/or threatens physical violence will be expelled from the field.
• No alcohol or illegal drugs are allowed on the premises. No Smoking.
• Pump and semi-auto paint guns only. Maximum rate of fire at a single player is a 3-round burst during non-tournament play. Pause so he can check for hit.




Waiver

By signing this form I _________________________, agree and acknowledge that Triple J Field is here for my enjoyment and have paid nothing to gain access; I also understand that this serves as an invitation to participate in/on the playing field and is conditional upon Tim Nieto’s discretion. Furthermore I will not hold the owner Tim Nieto responsible for any accidents and or injuries incurred from my participation or observation of games played on the field. I agree that I have read and understood the Safety Rules above, and failure to abide by them can and will result in the expulsion from the field/grounds. If under the age of 18 I agree that participation will be allowed for 1 day only or until I have a parent or legal guardian sign the Waiver releasing Tim Nieto from all liabilities.

Participant Signature _______________________
Parent or Legal Guardian Signature ________________________

viperx6x9x
07-25-2006, 09:29 AM
just a thought though, your last rule just banned the use of your pilots and imagines as they are considered electro markers.

you should ammend it so it says use of any mode other than semi auto during "tournament play" is banned. Use of burst and automatic fire is allowed in "outlaw" play.

some electro markers come with tournament locks. i dont know about the imagines, but the pilots have a lock. Take off the grip side with the clear window on it, look for a little red or black rectangular block (mine was red but i have heard of black ones) kinda between the trigger and the led display and pull it off of the board.

this disables all modes except Semi. im not positive but i believe it also caps rate of fire at 15. Just in case you didnt know that about your marker.

to fix that trigger bounce you have 2 adjustments on the trigger. one is in the middle of the trigger itself, it adjusts a piece that if extended far enough should help some with the trigger bounce, stick it too far out though and your trigger wont make contact with the switch.

the second adjustment actually adjusts the distance your trigger is from the contact switch. its located at the top of the trigger where it looks as though the trigger is going into the body of the marker. flip the marker upside down ahd you should be able to see it.

both can be set with the small allen wrench that came (or should have came with) the gun. you dont have to remove anything just turn the wrench.

keep in mind though that you wont experience the trigger bounce with no air connected so your gonna have to waste some air to adjust it to your liking.

vikingshadow
07-25-2006, 09:59 AM
just a thought though, your last rule just banned the use of your pilots and imagines as they are considered electro markers. you should ammend it so it says use of any mode other than semi auto during "tournament play" is banned. Use of burst and automatic fire is allowed in "outlaw" play.

Nah, it says semi auto markers. That means electric as well since it means when a shot is fired, the bolt/hammer resets itself. 3 round burst though isn't semi auto.

to fix that trigger bounce you have 2 adjustments on the trigger. one is in the middle of the trigger itself, it adjusts a piece that if extended far enough should help some with the trigger bounce, stick it too far out though and your trigger wont make contact with the switch.

the second adjustment actually adjusts the distance your trigger is from the contact switch. its located at the top of the trigger where it looks as though the trigger is going into the body of the marker. flip the marker upside down ahd you should be able to see it.

Try to adjust that bottom grub screw (set screw) to allow for more pull AFTER the shot is fired. This should keep you from getting bounce. Also, adjust the top so that it's not just sitting on the switch.

Definitely get all your guns chronographed. Thing is, both guns should shoot pretty much the same since the only real difference is the body style. That, and the aftermarket barrels you said they had.

As far as paint, when I bought paint from Wal-Mart, I always got Scorch and Dusk. As far as I'm concerned, those two paints are really good for where you get them. Make sure to check for roundness of the paint, and if any are broken. If any are broken, put the box back on the shelf. If any paint gets on the shell you're gonna get the weird flying situations you talked about. If you break a shell in the back at home, dump the balls onto a towel and dry them off. As far as other paint, you can find all kinds of good paint by searching around here.

Ok, I think we've narrowed your problems down. Chronograph your guns to lower the speed, aftermarket barrels will help you, practice practice practice, adjust the trigger screws to allow more play and check your paint before you buy it. That should fix you up!

nietotim
07-25-2006, 10:20 AM
Yup Sure did, thanks for all the help.