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View Full Version : why did Kingman make a gun that way


TStites
07-14-2006, 05:01 AM
I got my new Electra 06 in yesterday and I had just enough air to test it out. Now I see why the rocking trigger is not tournament legal. You can put one finger on the side of the trigger and just barley move it in an up and down motion and that gun will shoot 30 bps easy. So my question is why do they make a Marker that most fields are not going to want on there field. If I was to fire the Marker in that manner and hit some one with in a second they would be hit 30 times. The gun is very accurate so most likely all 30 shot would hit about the same place, now I don't care how you are that is going to hurt. Donít get me wrong I like the gun. There are a few things that need to be fixed on the next release of the Marker.
Cons
The grip does not fit flush so there is a gape for dirt, paint and other things to get in. The gun sounds like a cannon. Once you shoot it every one will know you are there.
Pros
The marker is very fast (maybe two fast) the Marker looks good. The marker seems to be as sturdy as all the other Spyders before it. Very accurate

All in all I love the Gun going up against this gun will be like taking a M16 and going head to head with M240G (that is a machine gun) I am glad I am going to be on the end of the gun that is fireing not being fired at.

bamf-hacker
07-14-2006, 05:09 AM
The rocking trigger was made to allow those players that can't really walk a trigger to shoot faster. As far as hitting 30bps on it, not likely. The Pro's can't hit 30bps with their Egoss and DM6s on semi. I am not even sure if it is possible to move your fingers that fast.

DRAGON
07-14-2006, 05:27 AM
...........As far as hitting 30bps on it, not likely. The Pro's can't hit 30bps with their Egoss and DM6s on semi. I am not even sure if it is possible to move your fingers that fast.

Thing is, he's not walking the trigger, he's bouncing it which doesn't require any skill at all. I noticed the rockers were very simple to bounce when I tried one when they were first released at the Super7 '05. Bouncing should easily hit 30 especially with a Spyder that has no noid to restrict flow like the higher end markers. Thing is, with this particular marker you'd need a hopper that can feed that fast as well. The eyes will restrict the ROF to whatever ROF capability it has. It is most likely not hitting 30 but whatever ROF the hopper will let it do. Dry firing with the eyes off can assuredly hit 30 bouncung it -

TStites
07-14-2006, 05:27 AM
I will make a video tonight I am telling you there a sweet spot on the trigger and when you hit it the balls just fly. I was shooting the gun as fast or faster then when it shoots in auto. he is write about the Hoper my hopper only does about 15 bps. in order to get the gun to cycle that fast I turnd of the eyes and dry fired it. but the gun seems to only be limited by how fast the hopper can feed the Gun. I can say that it was a littel earatting when I tried fireing the gun that fast with the balls you would get dead spots in your fireing because there was no ball in the chamber. wich just shows the eyes work great. is there a hopper that will feed 30 bps. because I have some payback to do on all the people that lit me up when I was shooting my xtra.

bamf-hacker
07-14-2006, 05:35 AM
I hear ya Dragon.

And agree with the loader issue. Even if it was bouncing, then the loader would not keep up, unless it is a Q-Loader.

DRAGON
07-14-2006, 05:36 AM
.......... I was shooting the gun as fast or faster then when it shoots in auto.

Well that's not too fast then since they only do about 14bps in modes lol -

TStites
07-14-2006, 05:44 AM
You would need a hoper that worked like a vacuum in order to feed the gun as fast as it can shoot. Hay that is a good Idea I should design a hoper that sucks the balls down in to the gun. Nay that would not work I don't think there is a way to shove 30 balls in a second in to a gun.

TStites
07-14-2006, 05:47 AM
I am just wandering if I removed one screw from a contact, so you could just fire of one of the contacts do you think they would let me use the gun in a tournament or would I need a totally different trigger.

bamf-hacker
07-14-2006, 05:51 AM
You would need a hoper that worked like a vacuum in order to feed the gun as fast as it can shoot. Hay that is a good Idea I should design a hoper that sucks the balls down in to the gun. Nay that would not work I don't think there is a way to shove 30 balls in a second in to a gun.


QLoader (http://www.qloader.com/)

Our debut system, the q-loader custom loading system, is the first of a new generation of clip-based paintball loading systems. It uses 100 round spring-powered clips to feed paintballs at over 30 bps. The q-loader is the highest performance and most customizable loading system available (36% faster than a Halo B and 58% faster than an Evo II).

DRAGON
07-14-2006, 05:53 AM
They are not restricted in all tourneys. That's just a fairy tale. You would need to set it up to not bounce though. I'm sure most tourneys check for thet type of schtuff -

BTW..........the edit button is ther for a reason, use it -

TheRedBarron
07-14-2006, 05:58 AM
Also they do make a loader that sucks in it is called a cyclone feed and is only available for tippys, it is also a waste of some poor engineers time and works about as good as the pinto did.

vikingshadow
07-14-2006, 06:11 AM
Come on guys. There already is a loader that sucks.

It's called the Quantum!

TheRedBarron
07-14-2006, 06:13 AM
Come on guys. There already is a loader that sucks.

It's called the Quantum!
:lol: stop trolling :p

colonel_moo
07-14-2006, 07:15 AM
Come on guys. There already is a loader that sucks.

It's called the Quantum!

i lol'd.

to threadstarter: its probably not illegal in all tournaments if its on semi. if you are just playing a local tourny, they probably wont care. as for the bouce issue, almost all high end guns have that problem. you just need to fool with your trigger settings and board settings (although on a stock spyder board, there really isnt much you can do). the reason you dont see high end guns bouncing is because the boards all have several features to prevent bounce, such as traditional debounce, ball buffer settings, AMB (anti-mechanical bounce), etc.

bigred76
07-14-2006, 07:58 AM
As already said, it's tournament legal so long as it's capped at 15bps and you have it set so there isn't any bounce. :rolleyes: Honestly, people need to learn to READ the rulebooks and the threads already here. It states clearly in both that it is tournament legal. Well, mebbe not in the rulebooks, but in them, it classifies a trigger pull as one pull and release allowing one shot. You pull on the bottom half of the rocking trigger trigger and it shoots once, it's legal by all the major paintball tournament circuits. PERIOD.

If the pussies at your local field feel that they can't handle facing a wee little Spyder, then they need to go get some skillz and shaddup.

I would like to see that video, however. I'm interested to see your "sweetspot."

TStites
07-14-2006, 08:04 AM
this is out of the 2006 NPPL rule book

6.01 Marker Specifications. Players may use a single, 68 caliber, pump or semi
automatic paintball marker, which consists of a single barrel and single trigger. All Paintball Markers shall only operate in semi auto or pump mode and may not operate in other discharge modes such as burst, enhanced trigger or fully automatic discharge mode during league play.

I don't know maybe I am looking at it wrong but I would think that the Rocking trigger is two triggers not a single trigger

viperx6x9x
07-14-2006, 08:05 AM
isnt there any kind of tourney lock built into it like they did with the camd ones in the pilot acs gun. all you have to do on those is pull a little jumper block off of the board and it disables everything but semi.

bigred76
07-14-2006, 08:11 AM
It is one trigger, unless I'm mistaken and it doesn't have one trigger rocking on a centerpoint? :D

I believe there's a tourney lock on all the electronic markers that Spyder makes.

TStites
07-14-2006, 08:13 AM
yes there is a jumper you can pull, but I am not sure how that works does it disable one of the contacts or does it keep it from going in to any other mode other then Semi auto. I guess I need to try it out and see how it worlks.

bigred76
07-14-2006, 08:14 AM
You yank it off the prongs, disconnecting them from each other, and it will put it into semi-auto only. I don't know if it will also cap it at 14bps, though.

EDIT: Stick it on a peice of masking tape or something like that so you don't lose the little bugger after pulling it off!

TStites
07-14-2006, 08:23 AM
I may just leave it in that mode why Play any other way, that is like cheating instead of learning how to get better.

bigred76
07-14-2006, 08:26 AM
Good idea. :) I hate people who use modes on me when we're playing semi-only. Last time that happened I flipped out... Not a pretty site for the poor asshat who did it. He was lucky I left his legs attached to his pelvis. :D

ShadowX
07-14-2006, 08:50 AM
yes there is a jumper you can pull, but I am not sure how that works does it disable one of the contacts or does it keep it from going in to any other mode other then Semi auto. I guess I need to try it out and see how it worlks.


You guys are letting this double switch thing go to your heads.. Listen to what I am saying..

The only thing the rocking trigger has over any other micro-switch activated trigger is NOTHING.. if you pull the trigger on a spyder imagine with ONE finger, it will shoot once.. if you pull the trigger with ONE FINGER on the electra 06 it will shoot ONCE.. no differnence.. Think about it people..

Kingman took advantage of bounce when designing the rocking frame.. that is why it will not a little faster (NOT 30 BPS, that is b/s, more like 17-18, if that) than, say, a spyder pilot or imagine.. the kick of the gun will allow another shot to be fired.. This can be taken care of with springs or magnets.. If you notice on imagines, e-99's, and pilot's.. They have springs in the triggers and that will stop and almost eliminate all bouncing.. look at your rocking trigger frame and tell me there are springs :dodgy: didn't think so..

viperx6x9x
07-14-2006, 08:53 AM
ok so if i take the springs out of my pilot acs trigger what happens? im sorry if this sounds like a repeat question, i just dont know what all this trigger bounce stuff means.

bigred76
07-14-2006, 09:10 AM
Your trigger will not return to its original "resting" position properly.

Shadow... I won't break into your rant too much. They use the lever-action type of switches on the Rocking, which helps reduce the bounce, There is some still, as in all switches. Yes, magnets would help, but what new player knows anything about that?

TStites
07-14-2006, 12:32 PM
You are write what new player would know about that. That is why we come and ask you guy’s questions. So why does every one give us crap for being new. Did you know every thing you know when you started out? Plus would you rather play with some one that was smart enough to ask some questions or some one that just runs around acting like they know what is going on.

Sac
07-17-2006, 12:22 PM
my machine gun is better than your machine gun. :dodgy:

TStites
07-17-2006, 12:32 PM
your write because I don't have a machine gun.

anemcek
07-17-2006, 12:37 PM
I remember reading someplace that you can play with the trigger as long as you remove one set of allens on the rocking. I know on the 05 there is no way to cap the rof and if you remove the bridge it disables the burst/full auto modes but with a rocking trigger those modes only slow you down. If you want to make the gun quieter lp it. I have a new vavle, lightning bolt, check it assault block, empire reg, spring kit and freak barrel and the noise is decreased greatly to the point where my eggy hopper is usually louder in feeding than my spyder in firing. The one thing i have noticed though is if you try to maintain that high rof for to long you starve the gun fairly quickly and have recocking issues.

TStites
07-17-2006, 12:47 PM
I bought a odyssey 3 piece barrel kit it cut the noise in half and I belive it took of some of the kick.