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applesauce
07-06-2006, 07:28 AM
what are the stock differences in these guns, beisdes the milling?

DyNasty9
07-06-2006, 07:38 AM
shocker>ion
shocker is lighter. and faster out of the box. shocker has vision eye(bounce beam)
the ion is a little heavyer some people say it feels like a toy in there hands. has break beam eyes.

if your going to say o so basically one lighter then the other and there the same gun your wrong. they feel totally different when you hold them and shoot them.

vikingshadow
07-06-2006, 07:58 AM
I despise these threads. It ALWAYS leads to a humongous debate on the virtues of the Ion, with Ion owners feeling the need to defend their guns. Plus, this topic has been done to death. Just look around on ANY forum and you'll find it. Plus, I feel a lot of people bring them up JUST to start the problems that it invariably brings.

Now, I won't go so far as to blurt out the Shocker is better than the Ion, but in my opinion, I prefer the Shocker over the Ion, but that's it - my opinion. Keep in mind that Smart Parts DID NOT build the Ion as a replacement for the Shocker, so the debate is useless, in my opinion. However, there are a lot of pro's and con's for each gun and a search will help you find those. In my opinion, the research that a person puts into it will yield the results that person is looking for.

Effort = results, in case you were wondering what I meant.

Let's keep this friendly today, boys and girls!

Frat
07-06-2006, 08:05 AM
Vike is pretty accurate with his description. I own an Ion and have played with the shocker a bit. The Ion is a little simpler design which I like and while it can be modded to compete with the shocker by the time you put the money into it you might as well have bought a shocker. The shocker being more complex is a draw back (simpler is better) but they will perform out of the box. I can't say too much about the Shocker reg but my Ions reg almost got replaced. Mine took a case and a half to two cases to get broken in. It is very consistent now and I will keep it. You need to decide what you want out of the gun before you buy. I went with the Ion because I wanted to use the Spec Ops Black Cell components to make the perfect woodsball gun which I think I have done. If you are playing x-ball go for the shocker. By the time you put a new barrel, board and what ever other mods you will be pretty close to or above the cost of a shocker. I have over $600 in my Ion and I bargain shop so i could have easily had $800 or more.

claustrophobia9
07-06-2006, 08:10 AM
shocker > ion. ion design > shocker design

but designs arent performance... and all of the ups that are currently being released for ions are sub-par.

vikingshadow
07-06-2006, 08:13 AM
Vike is pretty accurate with his description.

To clarify, I had a different post with more to it, but in the interest of fostering patience and kindness, I deleted it. I didn't say anything bad whatsoever, but I didn't want to get involved in the big stuff that's coming. :D

TheRedBarron
07-06-2006, 09:24 AM
I would simply like to state ups and downs to each...

Shocker Ups...

Weight/size, Aluminum (although crappy still better then plastic), stock barrel, trigger, feedneck (I wouldnt go by the feedneck either way), stock board, noid, detents, stock ASA, removable VA (whatever floats your boat eh?), feel.

Downs
Poor air routing IMO, without HE tis a gas hog, reg is muy horrible, bouncebeam (although some would argue it is still better) the anno and the aluminum are seriously sub par (bothers me more then it is really a downside)

Ion Ups

Weight/size (not better then a shocker but still rather small and light), ease of use for a EP gun, Breakbeam eyes, price of course, parts are cheap and readily available, stock reg is the best SP has ever put out (sad but true), you cannot hurt it (excellent backup that you almost abuse)

Downs

Stock trigger, Barrel, Feedneck, Board, no QEV when one is needed, Stock ASA, integrated frame and VA, Plastic, eyes although a plus in one aspect do not seem to work properly, crappy detents, everyone has one ( i guess that could be considered bad) feel.

Most of this is based on the technical aspect of the gun and not the actual shooting, IMO a stock shocker shoots more smoothly, and more consistantly then a stock Ion, although if you are really just looking for a backup gun if you replace the barrel, trigger, feedneck and ASA (and add a QEV) and Ion is perfect for you, if you are looking for a main gun, look at the shocker it will be cheaper in the end.

thechubbss12
07-06-2006, 11:03 AM
IMO Shocker has a better Noid... everything else has been listed....

Sandman_Bravo
07-06-2006, 04:52 PM
Well I guess I need to apologize for starting that thread earlier on this topic.

http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=4464

I did it in the interest in gaining some knowledge and insight to help me make a purchase decision. I didn't realize it had been done to death (should have searched :foreheadslap: - reads own sig) and don't want any Ion owners to feel they need to defend their gun. Quite the opposite, they should be proud that a marker in that price range can be compared to an upper end one.

druid
07-06-2006, 05:02 PM
I don't need to defend my 'gun'....it defends me nicely...and speaks louder than Claus :D

bamf-hacker
07-06-2006, 05:15 PM
No defending my Ion here either..... You like it or you don't and it the end it still rips :)

HacKeR

applesauce
07-06-2006, 05:21 PM
the reason i ask about the diff. is that i currently have an electra 05, pretty much stock, no internals or anything...just halo and 45/45. and i recently shot an ion, i liked the way it shot, it was really quiet and had less kick then the electra, didnt get a chance to use an outo feed hopper though, but i fouind that the eyes work nice. the trigger needs to go and the feed neck needs to be replaced. i really only play rec ball, and wanted to get something a little more quiet then the spyder. and the ion seemed to be the best choice for the money. plus...the proshop in my city will sell it for 250, which is almost as much as i got it for!

vikingshadow
07-06-2006, 05:23 PM
Whups, I said it wrong - that statement about defending their guns wasn't meant to be aimed at Ion owners in particular, although that's how it read. What I meant was that usually, Ions get the short end of the stick when it comes to talking about their guns in these threads. I should have said, "Ion owners AND Shocker owners (or insert any other gun here) end up defending their guns...."

Sorry about that!

druid
07-06-2006, 05:30 PM
the reason i ask about the diff. is that i currently have an electra 05, pretty much stock, no internals or anything...just halo and 45/45. and i recently shot an ion, i liked the way it shot, it was really quiet and had less kick then the electra, didnt get a chance to use an outo feed hopper though, but i fouind that the eyes work nice. the trigger needs to go and the feed neck needs to be replaced. i really only play rec ball, and wanted to get something a little more quiet then the spyder. and the ion seemed to be the best choice for the money. plus...the proshop in my city will sell it for 250, which is almost as much as i got it for!

If you want a quieter marker than the Ion...get an autococker...they're cheaper used on Nation than Ions...or you can get it for about the cost of a used, stock Ion...I just made a deal on one and it should be here tuesday. It's bone stock mech and brass pneus...but I don't care. This will be the first one I own myself (I have shot other's AC's and liked them) and I like to upgrade my markers so...

...anyway....mech cockers aren't faster....about 8-12 bps at BEST unless Ebladed...but MUCH quieter than Spyders and just a bit quieter than Ions....

claustrophobia9
07-06-2006, 05:30 PM
it speaks faster than i do, but louder, even if it does i cant see that being a good thing :dodgy:

i was simply stating that i am extremly dissapointed that ion ups are really focused on making it look like a shocker or PM etc, rather than making it something of its own. if i were a company making ion parts right now i would make:

different syles of POLYMER bodies... not metal, polymers are resilient, light, and cheep, meaning polymer > aluminum in efficiency. i would rather have a knick in a 15 dollar polymer body that looks decent than have a gash in a metal body that set me back 100 bucks.

i would also make titanium parts. for example the bolt, the rear firing chamber and the forward firing chamber. with the polymer body you cant see the fact that they arent a shiny color except in select areas, but you can feel it, with a huge wieght difference. the ion simply has alot of internal metal, the walls of the body are thick. the bolt designs now are squeezing ounces of performance by design, but the fact is that if you cut too much off of the bolt it wont move forward properly and will be a sucky bolt. so keep them decently large and lighten the material of the bolt, then to prevent internal scratches to the fullest extent, pull a ndz and teflon coat the thing. dow33 + teflon coat = teh loobz

and last i would simply stop trying to change what it is. lucky is adding new noids that arent as hearty as the ion noid.

looking at some of my suggested ideas you probibly think "well that might be expensive" but really, it wouldnt be too much more if no1 tried to hide the fact that its an ion with cosmetics, if you accept the fact that on the inside some of the ion is sensitive but on the outside the thing is a beast you may actually be able to live with the fact that it doesnt look like a proto/shocker/ whatever while you are mowing faces with something that will take dives betterthan a tippman or any other gun for that matter, but wiegh in (possibly lower) and shoot in a range that i high end might also fit into

applesauce
07-06-2006, 09:09 PM
looks mean nothing to me....i like to put it this way

"some are showers, some are growers..."

then there is all that motion in the ocean crap...

thanks for the info everyone!!!!!!

druid
07-07-2006, 01:54 AM
i was simply stating that i am extremly dissapointed that ion ups are really focused on making it look like a shocker or PM etc, rather than making it something of its own. if i were a company making ion parts right now i would make:
different syles of POLYMER bodies... not metal, polymers are resilient, light, and cheep, meaning polymer > aluminum in efficiency. i would rather have a knick in a 15 dollar polymer body that looks decent than have a gash in a metal body that set me back 100 bucks.
I tend to believe that the currently available Ion ups are/were driven by all the little claus-lets running around Nation...whining and complaining about the Ion's initial design...the 'rubbermaid noob-cannon' and 'plastic machine-gun' comments and all. They got what they wanted..."cooler, sleeker and sexier." I'm sorry that your voice wasn't heard over the other 4,000 people droning on about "it should look like this _____ or ____that....because we all know that claus' word is the final one and should have been heard over the majority..... :dodgy:...must be nice to have your ego
i would also make titanium parts. for example the bolt, the rear firing chamber and the forward firing chamber. with the polymer body you cant see the fact that they arent a shiny color except in select areas, but you can feel it, with a huge wieght difference. the ion simply has alot of internal metal, the walls of the body are thick. the bolt designs now are squeezing ounces of performance by design, but the fact is that if you cut too much off of the bolt it wont move forward properly and will be a sucky bolt. so keep them decently large and lighten the material of the bolt, then to prevent internal scratches to the fullest extent, pull a ndz and teflon coat the thing. dow33 + teflon coat = teh loobz
Ti is expensive and the initial creation was the culmination of ideas to keep the cost down. Making all your parts negates the cost effectiveness. And for your firing chamber, donut and bolt idea are frankly...ludicrous. You are talking ounces...or fractions of an ounce for each part. FOR CHRIST'S SAKE...you make it sound like it's hauling a fully belted M60 on the field...good God man...give it a break...Timmy's are TWICE the weight of an Ion and so are shoeboxes and no one complains about THEIR weight...GOD...

If you want to change something, take the extra material out of the frame because it, by itself...weighs more than all the other body components combined...only problem is...all those chowderheads that use their markers as surf boards...start taking away material and you run the risk of causing a rupture or breakage somewhere...yeah...great media coverage on THAT one..."The Ion Dive Bomb - by Claus...
and last i would simply stop trying to change what it is. lucky is adding new noids that arent as hearty as the ion noid.
om...ok...whatever. I'm sure you'd like to post proof that the MAC noid is less quality than the stock noid...I'd entertain having my mind changed...but not by opinion alone...prove it.
looking at some of my suggested ideas you probibly think "well that might be expensive" but really, it wouldnt be too much more if no1 tried to hide the fact that its an ion with cosmetics, if you accept the fact that on the inside some of the ion is sensitive but on the outside the thing is a beast you may actually be able to live with the fact that it doesnt look like a proto/shocker/ whatever while you are mowing faces with something that will take dives betterthan a tippman or any other gun for that matter, but wiegh in (possibly lower) and shoot in a range that i high end might also fit into

which is why it was designed the way it is...we all know you don't like it. Fine...I don't like Imps and definitely HATE ICD products...but I don't sit here and slam them like you do the ions...

Oh...and I forgot to mention that there are other bodies out there...like the 2 (3, 4?) carbon fiber replacements...for $100-to-80 and less - but then again, 2 are for woodsball/scenario...to which you have a hemorrhoid for and acquire an aneurysm against...is just something else for you to whine about and elevate your blood pressure...

we get it...you don't like Ions...we'll take your opinions under advisement and keep buying them anyway... <3

claustrophobia9
07-07-2006, 05:40 AM
we get it...you don't like Ions...we'll take your opinions under advisement and keep buying them anyway... <3
wtf are you taking about, i havent been slamming ions at all... ive been slamming companies that make upgrades....

druid
07-07-2006, 03:19 PM
ok, my mistake then. I inferred from the majority of your posts/responses (involving the Ion in general) that you just don't like them...

I'm sorry then <3

claustrophobia9
07-07-2006, 05:01 PM
ok, my mistake then. I inferred from the majority of your posts/responses (involving the Ion in general) that you just don't like them...

I'm sorry then <3
ya i was implying that the people who want a pretty gun are influencing manufacturers too much and that they should focus more on using higher quality internal parts and focusing less on making it something it isnt (although in its own way it IS pretty, it is NOT a pm6, shocker, etc and that makes it specail imo)