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View Full Version : Another DOUBLE feed/ACS/detent question...


Spoolinup
06-21-2006, 05:27 PM
Okay, so I've been reading through all the posts on the double feeding and detent problems, and couldn't have more of the same issue if I tried.

I haven't posted on here before(that I can recall) but have been viewing for about 4 or 5 months now.

In any event, my MR2 has been upgraded to an XSF advantage board for about 2.5 months, recently had eyes put in and also recently had an APEX barrel added to it.

Some friends of mine and I through a speedball/woodsball course together, so it's nothing sanctioned or anything...lol

IN any event, first thing I did to try and solve the problems of double feeding and paint breaking from it is disable my ACS bolt. I unthreaded the allen bolt holding the shaft that cocks the bolt in the end of the ACS bolt and put in a longer allen bolt to now allow the "Anti Chop" action to work, which now only allows the inner portion of the ACS bolt to be able to move back and forth less than an 1/8th of an inch(At least that's what I understood as the method of disabling the anti chop bolt). Well, after doing this procedure, with the stock black detent, hooked up my empire reloader B, set it on the third setting, installed the disabled ACS bolt, and began to fire away...At first, shot just fine in semi auto mode, 5-8 shots...but when I put it on full auto eye mode, which will just fire as fast as the hopper can feed it, started great, but then seemed to chop a ball, which I'm theorizing was due to a double feed, as obviously the gun won't fire unless a ball is not between the eyes. It was acting like this before the eyes, so I feel the eyes have no play in the chopping/double feeding.

Now, I never saw 2 balls come out as one when it chopped this most recent time, but i'm wondering if it's possible for the first ball to be forced in front of the stock detent before the eyes have a chance to recognize it, and the second ball, once in the chamber, slammed into the first ball, or if the second ball had not completely fallen into the chamber yet, but was pushing pressure on the first ball, moving it forward, bending the detent nipple enough to move first ball forward past normal position before shot, dropping the second ball into the chamber half way, causing the paint chop....

I'm not real sure, but have ordered some timmy clear polyurethane detents to see if that helps or not...

If anyone has any suggestions or ideas, I look forward for your comments.

Thanks in advance.

Spoolinup
06-21-2006, 05:31 PM
Also, let it be noted that My friend has a Pilot ACS with the same board, no eyes, yet, and has never had a double feed or chopping issue. this is aggravating as he didn't pay near the money for his gun but is ripping paint in full auto at about 25-28 BPS.

In any event, I lvoe this gun, and REALLY want it to work properly!!!(for longer than 5 minutes) :D

oppositesleeper
06-22-2006, 08:45 PM
well let me just say that nothing i did worked to stop breaking paint expect for replacing the detent. after that the gun worked like i would have hoped from the start. Im pretty confident that the detents will resolve your problems. Before i changed mine if i just put a ball in the chamber and tilted the gun down it would start to roll past the detent like it wasnt even there.

Spoolinup
06-22-2006, 09:42 PM
Before i changed mine if i just put a ball in the chamber and tilted the gun down it would start to roll past the detent like it wasnt even there.

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what mine does...and I know one does not want TOO much tension held on ball by detent, as that could cause paint to break when shot out the gun, but it's ridiciously to easy to let a ball roll past like that...

On a side note, I wonder how the gun would perform by putting a SECOND same style detent on the other side, and milling a groove in the bolt on that side as how the other side of the bolt is designed....???

wylde01
06-23-2006, 06:02 AM
hey spoolinup, i read that you have your reloader b on the third setting. i have mine on the first setting and it works perfect. however if i move it to the second or third setting i start having chops like crazy. just my point of view on that

Spoolinup
06-23-2006, 02:51 PM
I could see how that would help, but then I'd only be limiting my ROF, which I shouldn't have to with a gun that comes factory with a board capable of 25 bps.
If the reloader B is rated at 22 BPS free fall on the third setting, then a stock MR2 should, in theory, be able to support it firing slower then what the board is capped at.

Don't get me wrong, I can see how your way would work. I'm just wasteful and like to lay down a lot of paint...and considering several of my friends have ions with the virtue board that allows them to ramp to about 25-30 bps, I'd like my ROF to be as high as possible if I play against them. :D

Thanks for your suggestion, I really am appreciative.

Nick

wylde01
06-23-2006, 07:10 PM
ok so it may allow them to ramp 25-30 but have you done a test of some sort to see if they actually are going at that speed? you would have to be a pro to go that fast! so just sit back and think about all that i have said and then you will realize!

new_Faction64
06-23-2006, 08:33 PM
I myself had strange chopping issues. Even though the detent (black) that came with my gun is supposed to be a good one (unlike the orange and other colored ones that are bad), I replaced it with a Timmy detent I bought in advance, and the problems seemed to disappear, very strange.

***ALSO*** let us not forget! We all have 45* elbows here! I'm pretty damn sure that any of our hoppers isn't feeding as fast as it could with a straight-feeding-necked gun.

ok so it may allow them to ramp 25-30 but have you done a test of some sort to see if they actually are going at that speed? you would have to be a pro to go that fast! so just sit back and think about all that i have said and then you will realize!

Just a note to Spoolin, you can buy chronographs that will show the BPS, I know my X-Radar by Custom Chrono. Inc. will do it.

wylde01
06-24-2006, 07:28 AM
Just a note to Spoolin, you can buy chronographs that will show the BPS, I know my X-Radar by Custom Chrono. Inc. will do it.


hey can you tell me how much and where you bought your chrono?

new_Faction64
06-24-2006, 08:27 AM
hey can you tell me how much and where you bought your chrono?

http://www.anythingxtreme.com/Custom-Chronograph-Paintball-X-Radar-P14514C1591.aspx

Bought it there for that price. I'm very happy with it so far, and reviews from that site suggest that it's nearly as accurate as some of the really expensive chronographs, it's also pretty easy to use and you don't have to reset manually like that yellow chronograph.

Spoolinup
06-26-2006, 11:21 PM
Well, just an update, I got the new clear polyurethane detents in, so I'll have to try one in the gun sometime this week. I'll let yall know how it goes when finished testing.

wylde01
06-27-2006, 06:19 AM
hey try testing your hopper on different settings also

Spoolinup
06-29-2006, 10:22 AM
**UPDATE**

Okay, so I work at a Prosthetics and Orthotics business, so am lucky enough to be exposed to a lot of fun machines for modification. In any event, I measured and milled on the left side of the gun for a second rubber nipple detent placement. So now the gun is a dual detent marker, and I used an air dremel and cut a groove in the bolt to mirror the other groove in the bolt to slide past the detent during firing.

Set my Empire Reloader B on level 3, put in the dual polyurethane timmy detents, I have my ACS bolt disabled, and loaded the hopper with paint.
Turned my eyes on semi automatic and walked the trigger a little bit to test my modifications...no chopping or double feeding at all.
Next, reloaded hopper with paint, turned eyes on and put it in full auto mode, so the ROF is however fast the hopper feeds. Pulled the trigger and just laid some serious paint, with out any double feeding or chopping at all!!

I didn't think I would be this happy. The gun still had to be recocked twice during the testing, but I think that's due to the bolt not having o-rings, and with it being a blowback gun, not pushing the bolt all the way to recocked on high rates of fire. But that's fine with me.

I shot about 800 more rounds through it, without any issues at all.

I'm gonna try my buddies Halo B with victory board to see if it will feed faster, thus allowing me to fire faster.

QUESTION: Other than an overdrive wheel, is there any way(new boards or modifications to stock board) to make the Empire Reloader B feed faster?

I know there's an upgrade to turn a Reloader B into a Reloader B2, but does the B2 feed any faster than the B, or is it just different in the ability to adjust for sound sensitivity?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys/gals.

wylde01
06-29-2006, 11:35 AM
the reloader b2 will go at a rate of 28bps

new_Faction64
06-29-2006, 01:56 PM
My MR2's recocking problems disappeared after I oiled my gun (through the ASA)

Spoolinup
06-29-2006, 02:21 PM
the reloader b2 will go at a rate of 28bps

Wow, really?? I'm almost thinking of selling my reloader b, getting another halo b, and getting the cheetah board...I got away from the halo b before cuz i was chopping balls and paint was backing up onto the eyes of the halo b, and that was a pain in the ***. I might consider going back to it though, and try it with a cheetah board.

breakxeggs
06-29-2006, 02:33 PM
Wow, really?? I'm almost thinking of selling my reloader b, getting another halo b, and getting the cheetah board...I got away from the halo b before cuz i was chopping balls and paint was backing up onto the eyes of the halo b, and that was a pain in the ***. I might consider going back to it though, and try it with a cheetah board.


Throw your Reloader B's and Halo B's away and get a VLocity lol.. 25bps feedrate with a 35bps free-fall rate

MET
06-29-2006, 05:02 PM
Throw your Reloader B's and Halo B's away and get a VLocity lol.. 25bps feedrate with a 35bps free-fall rate

Sorry for the newbie question,but how can my VL VLocity have a freefall of anything without have the impeller turning at the #8 setting? This hopper obviously won't gravity feed at all, so how can it free fall?? Or is the adveritised free fall rate established with the loader set at 8 and tested off of the gun?

breakxeggs
06-29-2006, 09:12 PM
thats the feed rate from the after the impeller. thats how fast they fall out of the hopper the impeller feeds them 25bps. I think it says that either on the box or in the instructions.. but either way it doesn't make any sense at all. lol

new_Faction64
06-29-2006, 10:03 PM
thats the feed rate from the after the impeller. thats how fast they fall out of the hopper the impeller feeds them 25bps. I think it says that either on the box or in the instructions.. but either way it doesn't make any sense at all. lol

Prolly crap to confuse consumers to think it's faster than it realistically is, this kinda thing isn't uncommon. Hell Kingman did it w/ the MR2. 25BPS auto? Yeah right.

breakxeggs
06-30-2006, 09:17 AM
They never said 25 bps on auto... they said that the MR2 can get up to 25bps

and I think the freefall rate of any hopper is 30bps because of the weight of the pb itself. Its not false advertising or they would get sued for that stuff.

new_Faction64
06-30-2006, 09:49 AM
They never said 25 bps on auto... they said that the MR2 can get up to 25bps

and I think the freefall rate of any hopper is 30bps because of the weight of the pb itself. Its not false advertising or they would get sued for that stuff.

Even so, it led many people to think it could do 25BPS in full auto.

Correct, essentially 35BPS would be the free-fall rate for ALL hoppers, they just make a statement of it for the VLocity in order to make consumers think it's an edge.

Alien
06-30-2006, 12:37 PM
Does this hopper will be good . anyway i dont shoot 20 bps per sec , only like 3 or 4 at a time .

http://www.pntball.com/storefrontprofiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=82572&c=55306&i=151041646

breakxeggs
06-30-2006, 05:54 PM
yeah that hopper will do fine, but thats just the Shell for ppl that already have Halo B's to buy. Reloader B's, Halo B's, Revy's, Evo's and VLocity's are the better electric hoppers to buy.