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The Pink Panther
06-17-2006, 10:05 AM
i have seen a lot of people dont like ions
why is that..cuz i was thinking of getting one
can u please tell me the +'s and -'s of them
thnx

marvin-martian
06-17-2006, 10:12 AM
people who dont like them normally dont like them because theyre too common. everyone agrees that they are good guns for the price, but they are found everywhere.

like the only actual con i have heard is that people dont like the way the trigger feels, and have to adjust it.

druid
06-17-2006, 10:20 AM
who cares how common they are? the fact is, they started out at $289 ish and are now $199....and compete with any $1500 marker as long as the player has skill...and the rich snots don't like it.

colonel_moo
06-17-2006, 10:31 AM
who cares how common they are? the fact is, they started out at $289 ish and are now $199....and compete with any $1500 marker as long as the player has skill...and the rich snots don't like it.

they may be a good gun for the price but i definately dont think they can even compare to the feel of a nicer high end gun, and i definately can't play nearly as well with an ion as i can with a matrix, viking, etc. and used, a matrix and viking arent really that much more than an ion, so i dont see why you would get a far inferior gun when you can just get a matrix or viking for 300

TheRedBarron
06-17-2006, 10:47 AM
I dont hate them but I am starting to dislike them because i am getting tired of people bringing them into my shop asking me to fix them

im not saying that they break easy im just saying that generaly the peple who buy them do not know how to take care of them.

I would also like to state i like what the ion has done for paintball, it has lowered the cost of many guns, and I think that companys have realized that people wont pay a bajillion pennies for a simple spool valve marker when they can get one for 300. now 199.

The Pink Panther
06-17-2006, 10:49 AM
well why would u start to dislike the gun if its the poeples fault

timmyshoota
06-17-2006, 01:39 PM
who cares how common they are? the fact is, they started out at $289 ish and are now $199....and compete with any $1500 marker as long as the player has skill...and the rich snots don't like it.
You make too many good points and then throw something in at the end to ruin it.

The tourney scene has grown in this area because of the Ion. People who would of had lesser guns, now can afford Ions and play tourneys. Lots of young guns here have Ions and its getting them into paintball. There's probably 8 novice teams in the area, but like double that or more young guns. When they get older the novice division will be a lot bigger here, where it lacks greatly right now.

emf7301
06-17-2006, 01:58 PM
i don't think it's the ions people hate, more some of the stuck up people that own them. Not every ion owner is stuck up but there are some. I don't hate them; i think they are a very good gun. I just don't want one because they are so common and i like improving things to make them on par as better equipment.

The Pink Panther
06-17-2006, 03:45 PM
anything else?

ad0131065
06-17-2006, 04:03 PM
People don't like Ions because they are tupperware pwnage cannons, that mow faces. :D

Slammed0
06-17-2006, 04:04 PM
People don't like Ions because they are tupperware pwnage cannons, that mow faces. :D

:lol:

splater18
06-17-2006, 04:15 PM
i actualy shot my friends at the feild last weekend and i really liked it while i was there i realized that i cant keep up with my friends who have ions when i have a stock rodeo so ill probley get one soon

Ace24
06-17-2006, 08:05 PM
who cares how common they are? the fact is, they started out at $289 ish and are now $199....and compete with any $1500 marker as long as the player has skill...and the rich snots don't like it.

It doesnt have to be a ION to compete with any $1500 marker if the guy has skill. I have a Spyder Fenix and I am better then most of the sponsered people I know, and they have Autocockers and Angels rofl.

Also, I care how common they are. I dont want to have a gun that someone sees and is like.. oh its an Ion. I want a gun where they see it, watch me play with it, and ask, "What the **** is that?!"

Hence the reason I am getting a T-1 for my Fenix hehehe.:D

bamf-hacker
06-18-2006, 04:38 AM
People hate Ions because of Ion owners! Being an Ion owner myself, I get annoyed by some of the kids (using that loosely) that have Ions. They don't care of them, which means they will break down. Then right away people say they are sub par. Guess what you give someone an SL66 and they never lube or clean it, it is going to break.

They also like to talk a lot of smack, but of course they can't back it up. Again makes the Ion look bad because the gun can't be good, right! (of course it is not the owner :))

Now they are a "me too" gun, but that is mostly because of the parents. Those parents that would buy their kid a Shocker or DMx see the $200 Ion and don't have a problem with getting it for them. So more of them out there, personally I think SP had a genius idea. You may not like the Ion, but the whole paintball community talks about it.

OK that was my .02 For anyone who thinks the Ion can't keep up with High End guns look at my video or some of the many other "Good" Ions out there.

Link to Video (http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=3768)

HacKeR

Ace24
06-18-2006, 08:54 AM
I think any gun can keep up with the higher end guns out there, once again its not the gun, its the player.

(pluss, with the right amount of upgrades, you can get alot of guns up there with the higher end guns)

timmyshoota
06-18-2006, 09:12 AM
I think any gun can keep up with the higher end guns out there, once again its not the gun, its the player.

(pluss, with the right amount of upgrades, you can get alot of guns up there with the higher end guns)
Not true. You can make a Spyder more consistant with a good reg, and you can make it fast with a T-board, but you can never make it compete with a high end gun. This is coming from someone who had a FULLY upped AMG and many high end markers. There's just such a huge difference that people who make that statement are ignorant to.

I agree with the "its the player, not the gun" statement to an extent. A better gun helps a person be better, but its the skill that makes the player. You give Ollie Lang a Tippy and me an DM6 and I bet you I will beat him a good amount of times. You give us both the same marker and he will beat me almost everytime. Why? Because he's a better player and the marker lets him display that.

Ace24
06-18-2006, 09:16 AM
Yeah, I guess... because I couldnt use the stock victors at this one paintball camp I went too.. they sucked, then when I tried the camp leaders fully upped A-5 with flatline, rifel stock, remote, sight rail, e-board, and ACT with compressed air... yikes... I was owning lol. Ugh, I just contridicted myself..

thechubbss12
06-18-2006, 10:41 AM
When you usualy see Ion... my first thought it noob.... Sorry all of you experianced Ion owners thats just my first impresion.

I think that if you realy want to play paintball them you would spend the money to get a High end marker.....

But i understand Ions are very good for the money and if you are concious about the money you are spending i would suggest a Ion....

The Pink Panther
06-18-2006, 11:25 AM
well my parents just flat out cant afford an angel...etc...
when we go to mcdonalds i can get 1 thing off the dollar menu..sometimes 2 if im lucky :)
like were not poor but my parents like to conserve money for when they are older
i think i just contradicted myself...

bomberpilot07
06-18-2006, 12:06 PM
When you usualy see Ion... my first thought it noob.... Sorry all of you experianced Ion owners thats just my first impresion.

I think that if you realy want to play paintball them you would spend the money to get a High end marker.....

But i understand Ions are very good for the money and if you are concious about the money you are spending i would suggest a Ion....
same thing people think at my feild.. but they change there thoughts when my my teamate and i hit the feild hehe..


i used to think the same thing about ions cause i bought one used etc... but after while i was purswaded by someone *cough* druid *cough* that it wasnt the guns that were crap. it was the previous owners care or abuse put on the gun. in this case it was abuse.

druid
06-18-2006, 12:42 PM
well, I sounded real harsh in my last post because I'm tired of hearing "OMFG A NOOB TUPPERWARE DEATH-CANNON!!!".....

The reality is this. Smart Parts marketed a marker to compete on a level playing field....an LP marker with 15bps tourney cap with/without ramping. They wanted it to sell under $300 (initially) to grab the interest of kids/parents who would pay the $300 insstead of 1200. It worked. Now there are about 2 million out and about....they are owning G7's, Cobra'd 2K3's, DM's and NME's...and aaaaall of the 'big brother's' of high-enders...and it pisses them off enough to talk smack about them. It's no different to the millions of Spyder and Tippman Owners on the planet. Oooooh....so a marker was a cheap, stacked-tube blowback from walmart...big freaking whoop. My Esprit mowed for years until I sold it to doug and now it's mowing (when he's not breaking it :lol: )in another state.
I don't care what people say about my gear...I'm just tired of the belly-aching and name-calling. I've been playing since I was a Jr in high school (1986) and have more time on the field's job-johnie than most of the spoiled brats have playing.

Frat
06-18-2006, 01:53 PM
you would hate them too if you had spent $1200 dollars only to find out that you kept getting swept by a $200 gun. I see this and other post about the Ions and it kinda reminds me of the I think it is Volkswagon lowets ego emmisions commercials. I have seen Ion owners that don't know how to take care of and maintian their gear, I have also seen it of some of the high end crowd. I also know Ion owners who can match paint with the best of them. The Ion is light weight, small and inexpensive. With a $60 board it will spit out 30 balls a second. Bang for the buck it is the best thing going and the guys that spend a grand on their gun cant stand it because they really did not buy performance. They paid $200-$300 for the gun and about $1000 for the name.

vikingshadow
06-18-2006, 03:14 PM
OK, I've been silent long enough on this topic. Sorry, I'm having a sort of bad Father's Day, but this has been brewing in my mind since this thread started. So please, if you're going to get offended, don't read this. It doesn't defend Ions, it doesn't defend high end guns - it says what I think about all this crap...

Personally, I haven't ever been mowed by an Ion at any time, gosh honest truth. Not because I'm so good, though, nor because my shocker owns...but because I've never been beaten by one. Plain and simple. By the way, the GUNS DON'T OWN, THE PLAYERS USING THEM DO!!! It's a friggen tool to be used, and if you know how to use it and have the skills to back it up, you're going to win. I don't care if it's the Ion going up against an Angel, a Timmy, a Shocker or an Ego or a Spyder going against an Ion, or insert any gun you want here...a total beginner walking on the field with my Shocker won't beat me with my Phantom.

It's the skill that plays and the gun that backs you up...and if the tool is a good tool, that helps the player that much more.

I think this arguing about who's tools are better is all just a bunch of BS, and a lot of times it's started in threads that begin with "Why do people hate the Ion so much?" I mean, seriously, in the last few years, paintball players have become the whiniest, wimpiest bunch of gansta *****es that have ever gathered in a sport to play an "extreme" game. If they aren't griping about noobs with Angels, they're griping about noobs with Ions. Rich kids get griped about, poor kids get griped about, spyders get griped about, ramping gets griped about, pump play gets griped about, tournament players vs rec players, woodsball vs speedball, Dye vs Bob Long, Everyone vs Smartparts.....seriously, it's become part of the game to piss and moan about ANYTHING and everything in this sport.

The Ion is just one of the things that gets griped about, and I have to agree a lot of the times, it begins with Ion owners coming out with these threads saying things to the effect of "My Ion owns......" However, to defend the Ion owners, there are a lot of idiots are starting posts or posting about how Ion owners are stupid noobs - it just goes round and round. I'm not jealous for owning a 1200.00 shocker when I could have gotten an Ion. If I had wanted an Ion, I would have gotten an Ion. I like the shocker, so I got it. Point blank. Period.

Now, do I think it owns high end guns? NOPE! Do I think high end guns own it? NOPE! I think that people own people, I think an upgraded Spyder is just a really nice tool to use in your quest to own someone else REGARDLESS of what the other person is shooting.

Jesus, people - Smart Parts themselves said it wasn't meant to replace the "high end" Shocker, yet for months all you ever saw was that the Ion owns the shocker and it's the same gun but 800.00 cheaper...Smart Parts did the right thing buy introducing a good gun with a low price, then allowing the fire to build so that there are arguments about it everywhere. Their sales skyrocketed and because of all the arguments, it gets FREE advertising wherever you look.

It's a good gun for the price. It's not perfect, it needs help. So does every other gun out there. Can you shoot it straight out of the box. Yes - same as every other gun out there. Honestly, I'm really sick of hearing how one guy's gun is better than the other because he saved some money on it or it's a particular brand. It shoots paintballs and you're happy and have fun with it, great! Do I think noob when I see it? Nope - lately, all I see is a potential argument brewing.

druid
06-18-2006, 03:16 PM
you would hate them too if you had spent $1200 dollars only to find out that you kept getting swept by a $200 gun.
Well that's your/their problem now isn't it? Learn a new strategy because if you/they are getting owned...it's you/them...not the marker that shot you/them. His/her skills were better than yours/theirs. People need to deal with it when they suck.
I see this and other post about the Ions and it kinda reminds me of the I think it is Volkswagon lowets ego emmisions commercials.
Um...what?
I have seen Ion owners that don't know how to take care of and maintian their gear, I have also seen it of some of the high end crowd.
Well, it's not the fault of the marker then...is it?
I also know Ion owners who can match paint with the best of them. The Ion is light weight, small and inexpensive. With a $60 board it will spit out 30 balls a second. Bang for the buck it is the best thing going and the guys that spend a grand on their gun cant stand it because they really did not buy performance. They paid $200-$300 for the gun and about $1000 for the name.

Even brand name clothing manufacturers produce 'mid/low-end' products...and peeps are still buying them.
People need to get over themselves because of their 'gear'...and the only way to do it is own them with 'lesser' gear.
Really want to piss them off? Gog them with a slingshot....

vikingshadow
06-18-2006, 03:22 PM
People need to get over themselves because of their 'gear'...

That's exactly what I was trying to convey in my long rant above...

and the only way to do it is own them with 'lesser' gear.
Really want to piss them off? take a paintball blowgun or wrist-rocket out and own them...

And this is exactly what I'm trying to get across as well. Why is there this urge to own people and to piss them off in this game? I think we should just say "so what" and play the game. If you win, great! If you lose, so what? Play again and just have fun.

I get the "you shouldn't play because you're a teacher and 40 years old" all the time. And, yes, I get the urge to go out and beat the crap outta them, but I try to be the bigger person and just keep my mouth shut. I go out on the field, I play to win and I win some, I lose some, but what I hope is that the person sees that I don't care about that other stuff (any more - I've changed somewhat.)

Maybe I'm just naive, but in my mind, all this that is being debated is what's tearing the sport up in the average person's mind. Controversy, plain and simple, and NOTHING will ever get solved.

bomberpilot07
06-18-2006, 03:33 PM
wow vike... that was beautiful :thumbup:

vikingshadow
06-18-2006, 03:42 PM
Ah shucks, ma'am! T'warn't nothin.... ;)

Thanks! :)

Ace24
06-18-2006, 06:59 PM
I think I agree more with Viking than anyone I have talked to (except Chubbs) about the ION. Stop putting people down ION users, thats the main reason I cant stand ION's... Not are they everywhere, people that own them are so ****ing cocky its incredible. I own a crappy (at the time I payed $230) Fenix, and I can still out do those "Sponsered" guys with Autocockers and DM6's! ITS THE PLAYER AND HOW YOU USE THE TOOL. Not the tool alone. Just as Viking said. All this forum has started to become since I have joined is a giant piss fest of people complainging about this gun and *****ing about that gun and fingering eachother over wich one owns what kind. Honestly, bring me a Angel and bring me a Brass Eagle gun and I will put them on the ground infront of eachother. What do you honestly think will happen? Wich gun will own wich one? Thats right! THEY WONT DO **** WITHOUT SOMEONE BEHIND IT! Stop saying your gun owns that gun... lord almighty!

druid
06-18-2006, 07:10 PM
ace, buddy...need a nap?? :lol:

Frat
06-18-2006, 07:32 PM
I see this and other post about the Ions and it kinda reminds me of the I think it is Volkswagon lowest ego emmisions commercials.
Um...what?

We have commecials out here (Oklahoma) for a Volkswagon car and part of the advdertisement is that it is German but with low ego emissions. Viking was more to the point and where I was going. I see guys come out with their high end guns but all they do is put more paint in the air. Watched a guy walk out onto the speedball field last weekend with four pods and a full hopper. Not sure how much paint was left in the hopper but all of his pods were empty. I see people come out with their status symbols (and I am not knocking you Vike) and that is all they are for most of them. I have handled and upgraded Ion and I have handled a shocker and the performace difference is nill. It is all in the shooter.

The biggest reason I chose the Ion is because of the Spec Ops Blackcell body and stock. I play woodsball as my preference and it is probably the best setup out there.

UKwithPride
06-18-2006, 11:02 PM
It doesnt have to be a ION to compete with any $1500 marker if the guy has skill. I have a Spyder Fenix and I am better then most of the sponsered people I know, and they have Autocockers and Angels rofl.

Also, I care how common they are. I dont want to have a gun that someone sees and is like.. oh its an Ion. I want a gun where they see it, watch me play with it, and ask, "What the **** is that?!"

Hence the reason I am getting a T-1 for my Fenix hehehe.:D
Then people will just say, "Oh look, it's another spyder that someone put too much money into, because it's a spyder." Not trying to argue, I'm just stating the fact that you're being a hypocrite. And you're trying to say that no one has ever seen a spyder with a t1 kit on it?

DRAGON
06-19-2006, 12:23 AM
Then people will just say, "Oh look, it's another spyder that someone put too much money into, because it's a spyder." Not trying to argue, I'm just stating the fact that you're being a hypocrite. And you're trying to say that no one has ever seen a spyder with a t1 kit on it?

Kinda funny you mentioned that because people are always asking me what type of marker I'm shooting and all I'm using is an LP Spyder. At times I even have refs coming over and looking at me shoot. i'm thinking they think I'm using full auto or modes and all I'm doing is walking the trigger. When people ask me about it I usually ask them if they'd like to shoot it. They usually come back scratching their head saying it sure doesn't shoot like a Spyder. I think LP Spyder's or T1's for that matter aren't really as common as you portray them to be. Certainly not as common as Ions. Contrary to what you may think, not all people with Spyder's frequent the net. AMOF, most techs at pro shops seem to think Spyder's are so simple to work on but I'll bet if I put a few things out of whack on my LP Spyder they'd have a hella time figuring out what's the matter if they could at all. If I turned the SRP on the rocket valve in 5 turns it would drive them nuts trying to figure out why it would refuse to recock or they'd just tell me it's a Spyder they're junk, buy an Ion lol -

Ace24
06-19-2006, 05:09 AM
No one that plays near me has T-1's except the people with Wraths or OLD vets. (I mean like 40 yr old vets) lol...

ION's are WAY more common then T-1's or low pressure kits. I should know, I reff, I watch paintball videos every day and I have been to many different types of paintball courses. (Woodsball, scenario games, speed ball, x ball, some other kinda weird ****ky ball)

vikingshadow
06-19-2006, 05:25 AM
I think some people misinterpreted my previous post. I'm not hating on the Ion or the Ion owner. I think that the blame is equally spread out among Ion owners and those that own other high end guns. I was also saying that the hate is spread out all over the sport, and the Ion has fallen into that category more than once and to me is unfortunate because we all started playing this game for the same reason. It was fun, and we didn't care what we shot back then, just so long as we shot something!

To hate a gun because of it's popularity is ridiculous, and to say a gun (any gun) owns another one is just as ridiculous, in my opinion. When people say others are jealous because they spent $1200.00 on a "high end" gun when they could have had the same thing for 200.00, that's not right either. It sounds like a lot of "My dad can beat up your dad" type of stuff.

I wish people would just let it go, because if it shoots paintballs, and you like it, that's wonderful! And I still stand my ground that it's threads like these that cause the hard feelings between Ion owners and other gun owners...that's why people hate on other guns/people. It just keeps getting dragged up!

Ace24
06-19-2006, 05:34 AM
:yeahthat:

I bow to you Viking :bow:

UKwithPride
06-19-2006, 06:11 AM
I think some people misinterpreted my previous post. I'm not hating on the Ion or the Ion owner. I think that the blame is equally spread out among Ion owners and those that own other high end guns. I was also saying that the hate is spread out all over the sport, and the Ion has fallen into that category more than once and to me is unfortunate because we all started playing this game for the same reason. It was fun, and we didn't care what we shot back then, just so long as we shot something!

To hate a gun because of it's popularity is ridiculous, and to say a gun (any gun) owns another one is just as ridiculous, in my opinion. When people say others are jealous because they spent $1200.00 on a "high end" gun when they could have had the same thing for 200.00, that's not right either. It sounds like a lot of "My dad can beat up your dad" type of stuff.

I wish people would just let it go, because if it shoots paintballs, and you like it, that's wonderful! And I still stand my ground that it's threads like these that cause the hard feelings between Ion owners and other gun owners...that's why people hate on other guns/people. It just keeps getting dragged up!
I completely agree with you. We were doing a one on one tourney at the local field for fun. I played a guy with an ego, twice. First time he got me, second time I got him. I made a bad move on my part. Then when I got him I'm pretty sure he made a bad move on his part. Had nothing to do with the guns we were using.

thechubbss12
06-19-2006, 06:46 AM
"To hate a gun because of it's popularity is ridiculous, and to say a gun (any gun) owns another one is just as ridiculous, in my opinion. When people say others are jealous because they spent $1200.00 on a "high end" gun when they could have had the same thing for 200.00, that's not right either. It sounds like a lot of "My dad can beat up your dad" type of stuff."

Well no vike if i were to spend 1200 on a high end gun i wouldnt buy a Spool Valved gun.... i would go Stack tube valve or a Angel before a spool valve... Thats just my opinion.

Yea i understand all of the Ion flaming crap and i do see that alot of people just like to complain... Im not affraid to say i have been lit up by Ion owners... Im also have to say that i cant stand ions becasue of the way they feel in my hands.

Ions only breach the gap of what used to be High end and Low end markers.... You can have a Higher end marker for a low End price... There is nothing wronge with them so why do we continue to argue about them?

vikingshadow
06-19-2006, 07:10 AM
"To hate a gun because of it's popularity is ridiculous, and to say a gun (any gun) owns another one is just as ridiculous, in my opinion. When people say others are jealous because they spent $1200.00 on a "high end" gun when they could have had the same thing for 200.00, that's not right either. It sounds like a lot of "My dad can beat up your dad" type of stuff."

Well no vike if i were to spend 1200 on a high end gun i wouldnt buy a Spool Valved gun.... i would go Stack tube valve or a Angel before a spool valve... Thats just my opinion.

Again, you misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about the operation of a gun - in that example, I was just talking about the price. Actually, I was only talking about the gun vs gun vs price vs price thing...the debate between blowback vs spool valve vs stacked tube type Timmys is something else in itself. In that debate, you can give plusses and minuses and stack them against or for each other...this debate going on between Ions and other guns really isn't capable of debate, simply because it'll turn out to be an argument and the same tired things will come out - price, upgrades, stock, etc.

Personally, I like the spool valve design over a stack tubed or Angel design, but that's my opinion. And, the Ion doesn't feel good in my hands either, which is why I don't care for them (believe it or not, I've had several people tell me I'm an idiot because I said that. "But you own a shocker! There's no difference..." Well, I've played with a few Ions, and I've held several, and like you, they just don't feel right to me.)

I respect your opinion, you respect mine, and that's the way it should be. We don't have to agree, but we don't have to argue about it either. Again, my whole point is to just play the game, enjoy it and shoot people...that's what it all boils down to!

claustrophobia9
06-19-2006, 08:46 AM
honestly, the designs are pretty much the same thing, try to fit a stacked tube into one tube as best as possible and you'll get a spool valve. i dont really think that the companies making the spoolvalves truely are making the best product they can make, because it SHOULD function just as fast as a stacked tube. i agree and disagree with both of you. i think right now the stacked tubes are made to a higher quality, because they have perfected the speed of the cycle, but spool valves are good investments, because thats where things are headed.

my reasoning behind a stacked tube is just a spool valve taking up 2 tubes... just relocate everything. make the ram from a stacked become part of the bolt for a spool so it fits in one tube. then make the valvestem part of the bolt so when it moves it releases the air, just like a stacked tube, but in a straight pattern. ill make a gif to prove my point if you guys still dont get it... my description is kinda shotty.

Hob Hayward
06-19-2006, 09:05 AM
I guess I must :bow: to you Vike. Guns are guns, use what you like, my friend thinks Ions ae godly, I have to tell him, no they're not godly, they're decent. He also things cockers are godly, I have to tell him, no cockers arn't amazingly good, they're decent. He tells me to get a rocking trigger frame because then I'll be able to shoot 30 bps... I tell him, no, the rocking trigger doesn't make you shoot 30 bps, 30 bps is impossible. But it really depends on the player, he doesn't get that though, he beleives your gun=your perforamce.

An analogy would be Racing, you have a windy track, and you could have an inexperienced guy in a mad nasty race car, and a preffessional in say a BMW m5, the guy in the race car is bound to crash or go off the course because there's too much power for him to control, while the Professional can take everything perfectly, and in the end win the race. Sure that only kinda fits... Yeah.

DRAGON
06-19-2006, 09:06 AM
.......... because it SHOULD function just as fast as a stacked tube..........

It cannot though because it's EP and EP markers are restricted by the pressure flow capacity limit the noid can pass through it -