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View Full Version : Is an Autococker Trilogy Pro Better then a Fenix?


Ace24
06-13-2006, 03:58 PM
My friend is willing to sell me his AC Trilogy Pro almost completely fully upgraded for $160. I was wondering if that is a better gun then the Spyder Fenix. I am getting kinda worried with all this talk I have heard about the Fenix, that the AC might be better... If I put an e-grip on it, it's probably 2x as good as the Fenix right?

HELP MEEE! *seriously confused*

The Trilogy PRO has,
14" stock barrel, 14" SP progressive barrel
CP 3.5" drop forward
.45 chrome trigger
black titatium back block
black Evil beaver tail
this thing piece that makes the shooting rate increase by 2x
SP clear grip
Two types of derlin bolt

He was also going to throw in a crappy e-hopper and regular hopper, mask, red gloves and the CO2 tank.

Am I crazy to pass this offer up? Is the Fenix worth upgrading? Or is this gun the way to go and get an e-grip?:confused:

thechubbss12
06-14-2006, 06:52 AM
You cant E-blade the Pros with out doing dome serious modding....

Put a T-1 on your fenix and it will own the Cocker.... I would pick fenix over the cocker unless you are getting an incerdible deal on the cocker...

Ace24
06-14-2006, 11:37 AM
What is a T-1? (Sorry I am kinda new to the whole upgrading gun thing. Even though I have been playing the sport for 3 years)

thechubbss12
06-14-2006, 11:41 AM
Its a Kit that makes a spyder a spring return EP marker.... Its a huge upgrade IMO from a Blowback....

The compnay that makes them went out of buisness so finding them sux...

Hob Hayward
06-14-2006, 11:47 AM
Costs about 200$ to do the T-1 upgrade. I'm seriosuly considering it myself, if I wasn't recuperating from other purchases, I'd get the lot I need for it right now...

Ace24
06-14-2006, 11:48 AM
Rofl so I would still be better off with a new gun then? Is the Fenix worth upgrading, or would my best bet be to buy an ION and upgrade that? I like the look of ION's, I'm just in need of firing one. I am so accurate with my spyder now that I can shoot poland Spring bottles from 25-35 feet away. (keep in mind, the spyder is all stock)

How much does it cost to upgrade an ION, Vs what it would cost to upgrade my Fenix?

ShadowX
06-14-2006, 12:03 PM
Well, You will adjust to the ION very quickly I assure you.. Lol..

And the three essential Ups for an ION, I think, are Feed Neck, Barrel, and QEV.. Then I would pick up some ball detents when the stock ones were out (and they will).. also a nice rail and on/off and maybe a trigger.. Then maybe a reg later..

The Ups are about the same as spyder as far as price goes.. Barrels and feed necks cost about the same.. QEV's are about 15-20 bucks.. Good detents like Kila's or NDZ are between 10 and 20 dollars..

Hob Hayward
06-14-2006, 02:19 PM
Don't go for an Ion unless you have an HPA/n2 tank, not really worth it.

Oh and as to the 200$ tag on getting the t-board version of the t-1 kit, thats including a madman rocket valve, so basically you get everything you need. The other plus is you can sell your current gripframe for around 50$ in the b/s/t forums here aswell as your asa and hammer.

Ace24
06-14-2006, 04:46 PM
I can really make that? Well here lies the problem. I am 16, dont have a credit card, no paypal acount unless my dad does it. So me selling the grip frame + all the parts I wont need when I get the new ones is kinda... hard?

divvichild
06-14-2006, 07:36 PM
Personally, i would go with the ion. I have one, and i love it. I have a spyder rodeo as a backup, and believe me, there is no comparison(lol, bear in mind the rodeo is almost stock besisdes barrel and reg).

The Ion is fully upgradable, so you can make it perform almost as well as a high end gun.

Hob Hayward
06-15-2006, 04:25 AM
I can really make that? Well here lies the problem. I am 16, dont have a credit card, no paypal acount unless my dad does it. So me selling the grip frame + all the parts I wont need when I get the new ones is kinda... hard?

I'm in the same exact situation. Thats the only thing stopping me from having bought everything already...

thechubbss12
06-15-2006, 06:47 AM
The Ion is fully upgradable, so you can make it perform almost as well as a high end gun.

Well yes you can make it perform well but all the money you would have spent on it would be wasted becasue the Resale and trade values on Ions suck horribly.. even if it is maxed out.

IMO a stock ion doesnt compare to a T-1d , T-boarded, and Rocket valved spyder.... Becasue thats the same price. $200 for new Ion or $200 for brand new T-1 stuff mentioned above.

ad0131065
06-15-2006, 06:55 AM
Well yes you can make it perform well but all the money you would have spent on it would be wasted becasue the Resale and trade values on Ions suck horribly.. even if it is maxed out.
Spyders don't have a really great resale value either. He could either buy a new fenix $165 and buy a T1 kit to make it a semi-EP(spring returned) gun for around $365, or buy an Ion for $200 that is already true EP. Now tell me which one is the better deal?

bamf-hacker
06-15-2006, 06:57 AM
i guess it comes down to.....

Ion upgrades are available now.

the T-1 kit is not, so it is harder to find.

So you can get an Ion and upgrade and be like everyone else (me included) or go for the T-1 upgrade and have some real uniqueness.


Or..... Do both :)


my .02

HacKeR

ShadowX
06-15-2006, 07:00 AM
I can really make that? Well here lies the problem. I am 16, dont have a credit card, no paypal acount unless my dad does it. So me selling the grip frame + all the parts I wont need when I get the new ones is kinda... hard?

I will be 15 in July and I have a paypal account and a Checking Account.. I have had them since around Christmas..

Just get your dad to set one up for you.. If your dad uses Wachovia, It is really EASY..

vikingshadow
06-15-2006, 07:28 AM
Oh, sure. NOW you guys are interested in the T1...6 months ago I had TWO of them for sell, LOL!

If your interest runs to saving money, your best bet would be the Ion. Don't forget the benefits of the Ion; lightness, availability to upgrade it to a completely different gun RIGHT NOW, good speed, ramping capabilities, a decent regulator, etc. for the 200.00 price tag. All you really need on the Ion is a trigger, clamping feedneck and new ASA and you're good. The T1 kit, however, while a great upgrade for a spyder, WILL cost an additional 200.00 + more than the original gun you paid for - and that's if you can find a kit, that is. And it's not ready to go right out of the box, despite what most people say.

Now, this is from experience because this is what I had to do with my actual T1's - to get the best effectiveness out of The One kit, you need a different Low Pressure Regulator (LPR) and adapter because the stock one blows big time unless you tinker with drilling holes and such, and a different High Pressure Regulator (I had a Torpedo on mine) because even though the Dragun reg is a good reg, it's not THAT good. You'll need a QEV so the gun will actually vent backwards instead of fighting the air pressure back through the gun making it possible to cycle faster, a lighter bolt that flows more than the stock Spyder bolt - preferably anti-chop like a Jambolt (but I have a couple of Tigersharks for sale, by the way). THEN you need to drill your stock body for eyes and actually buy the eyes because last I heard, the kit didn't come with them (but they may now - IDK.) along with eye covers, etc. which by the way, the eye logic Dragun used on it's boards was VERY rudimentary and not 100% reliable but it was still better than no eyes. Finally, as some are saying to buy a Tboard - although you can unlock the modes in the T1 and have basically the same thing - it's kind of overkill to me, but whatever...

When it's all said and done, you're looking at close to 400-600 dollars for a gun that is still as heavy as a spyder, doesn't operate at as low a pressure as the Ion, the eye logic is still very basic and will chop from time to time, on top of still needing to be capped at 15 bps in any tournament that matters in the big scheme of things. Oh, by the way, you can use Anti-syphoned Co2 on an Ion (I wouldn't recommend it, but you can) and you CAN NOT use it on the T1 so you will definitely need to buy an HPA tank before you use it - another added cost!

Financially - the Ion wins. But, I'm not a big fan of Ions, and I loved my T1's and tinkering - so I vote the T1 kit if you can find it!

To get back on Topic - I think I would go with the upgraded Fenix or the Ion of the Trilogy - but that's just me.

Hob Hayward
06-15-2006, 09:53 AM
Well, PM me if you wanna know where the T-1 one stuff can be bought.

For me, it was 200$ to get the LPR, frame, noid, ram, The One t-board, eyes, battery harness, and the Madman Rocket valve for t-1.

I already have a good main reg, so thats ~80$ saved plus I can sell my NDZ valve (unless someone knows of a valve pin without the slot in it), my gripframe, ram, the Trinity VA I just bought (unless I can put an LPR in that?), and the ACS bolt.

Then the other things to buy would be a delrin ram +26$ (alamo city pb), a decent delrin or nylatron bolt +20-30$, and a qev ~30$(?).

Total for me= 275 minus maybe 100 for the aftermarket stuff I can sell. 175$.

druid
06-15-2006, 10:22 AM
Rofl so I would still be better off with a new gun then? Is the Fenix worth upgrading, or would my best bet be to buy an ION and upgrade that? I like the look of ION's, I'm just in need of firing one. I am so accurate with my spyder now that I can shoot poland Spring bottles from 25-35 feet away. (keep in mind, the spyder is all stock)

How much does it cost to upgrade an ION, Vs what it would cost to upgrade my Fenix?

When I got the Ion...it was a version 1...all new prices except barrel kit

ion...........................230
stage 5 body kit.........230 (no longer offered/limited edition/hard to find-don't ask)
full freak kit................100 (used)
CP trigger....................35
CP reg.........................60
qev.............................20
Trinity on/off................45
LBM Bolt.......................45
TBoard w/membrane.......90

compared to what's avail now....(All new-ish prices)

ion............................160
aftermarket breech........50
feed neck....................35
barrel kit...........up to..180
reg..................up to...100
TBoard w/membrane.......90
Bolt..................up to....75
QEV.............................20

Now......you can find good deals on used products by using search features here and on Nation....you could reasonably cut the cost by up to half of new....

Ace24
06-16-2006, 01:16 PM
Someone sent me a link for a site where I can get most of the parts for the t-1 for under $60. I do need to get an ACS bolt, and I will be, and I will most likely be getting an HPA tank. The thing I hate about ION's, (and shut the eff up you ION owners, you defend your gun to much) THEY ARE ALL THE FRICKIN SAME! I dont care what you put in it, its still an ION. So many people have them that its steering me away. I dont like to be like everyone else. I like origonality, thats why you should see my woodsball uniform.. and what I have done to customise it. (that and my studded mask)

I dont want to be like all you guys and get an ION. Whoopie, the fenix is heavy... Its called arm mass and building muscle. I have to carry around 10lb pole with a heavy duty flash attached to it for work for 9-12 hours at a time... so I am used to the weight.

viperx6x9x
07-14-2006, 07:01 PM
i'm sorry to all you guys that get mad for bringing back an old post but this is the first i've heard of this t-1 upgrade and im wondering if you guys can hook me up with any info on it. what parts have to be upgraded, what parts might be added if any, what it does exactly, etc . . . . . its already stated that this thing is hard to find, and that it does a spring return rather than blowback but as a newbie to this stuff im not following what the spring return thing means so much. also my gun is a pilot acs, so can this upgrade even be done on my gun. im pretty good with home modification also and have access to some fun toolsso if you guys can explain how to make or modify my own t-1 upgrade that would be awesome too.

Ace24
07-14-2006, 07:43 PM
Go here to see what the Spyder Fenix looks like with a T-1 kit:

http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=4817

Hob Hayward
07-14-2006, 08:00 PM
Coulda bought a wrath LTD.

Ace24
07-14-2006, 08:03 PM
Coulda... but the price for the T-1 with everything was only $90. I couldnt pass that up.

Pluss I like spyder. My friend has a Diablo Mongoose.... I didnt like it too much.

hXc drummer23
07-14-2006, 08:33 PM
You should definately get an ion. I think they are worth it. I just bought mine a couple days ago. And Im going to get a virtue board and a bunch of other upgrades.

Hob Hayward
07-14-2006, 08:43 PM
When I journey higher than spyder, I'm gonna get a wrath LTD. Mainly because its not an ion and its still inexpensive ( acctually GOOD value, it comes stock with a BL torp, clamping feedneck and a real body :)) for 35$ more.

UKwithPride
07-14-2006, 09:52 PM
Isn't that a Zip Kit and not a t-1 kit?

bigred76
07-14-2006, 10:48 PM
Yeah, that is a Zip Kit LOL! The drop, frame, and trigger design are different, and the board is differently designed as well. No biggie, they do the same thing. ;)

bungeye
07-14-2006, 10:53 PM
i have the triolgy pro and a pilot. the cocker is more accurate, but is just another closedbolt cocker. and the ups you mentiond only 1 or 2 are internal, the rest are cosmetiv, so the performance is about the same as stock.

its a hard decison, i would recomend the fenix though and upgrade\ it

bigred76
07-14-2006, 11:30 PM
I'd reccommend the Trilogy. *Crowd GASPS* Doesn't break as easily and is more accurate right out of the box by far.

Ace24
07-15-2006, 06:26 AM
The Fenix is a tank when it comes to durablilty. Yes thats what they call a "Zip kit." It doesnt matter though, they are both the same thing and both turn the marker into a EP gun. The only difference is the design in the trigger frame and that it comes with that drop and that high pressure reg.

bigred76
07-15-2006, 09:07 AM
I'd have to argue with that. I advised one of my friends to pick up a Trilogy over a Fenix just last month. Lo and behold, it broke on him. I lent him my Autococker while I was sitting out the games to fix the *****. One game with that gun proved to him why I reccommended them. I had lots of fun cleaning my gun that night too... :( ****ing ******* dragged it through mud pits, sand-like dirt, twigs, water... almost every last bit of terrain on the ****ing field. :( Ever tried cleaining mud out of the striker area on a 'Cocker? Not fun...especially when there's a load of it covering EVERYTHING. Amazingly my gun was still working after that, only the paint swelled up after his excursion to the creek. :dodgy:

I personally (in your case) would have bought that Trilogy, taken off the damned response trigger thing, and upgraded your Fenix at a later time. Most likely would have talked him down to ~$125 on it too. :D

ooglieboogliebob
07-15-2006, 03:18 PM
... you should probably get a valvetool to clean the rest out tim ... :p

Ace24
07-15-2006, 09:36 PM
Eh its too late for that. I also dont need two Tournament style guns. If I get another gun, its going to be one of the MR series so that I can upp it for scenario games.