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nbishop66
05-11-2006, 10:07 PM
I just can't seem to make it happen. Everything was going well with my setup: 05 Pilot ACS, J&J Ceramic 14", 32* Valve, 32* Spring Kit, CheckIt Assault Block, WGP Ergo Reg, Polished Stock Striker and Sear, Polished Internals, 68/3000 HPA. I was running at 400 psi @ 285-290 fps w/ Gry/Gry. I purchased a DH Titanium Striker to finish off the setup. After adding the DH my recocking pressure was 60 psi lower, down to about 320, but my fps fell way off. I understand that since it's lighter it needs more main spring or less valve spring to get the job done.

I swapped out springs to Blk-M/Blk-V, but fps could not get over 227, no matter how high (up to 600) I adjusted my reg. I’ll explain what seemed to be a “sweet spot” for psi later. Swapped to Gry-M/Blk-V got up to 240 fps. I put a shim behind the Spring Guide and got it up to 260 fps. All these results are with the velocity adjuster all the way in. All o-rings are new and lubed, no leakes, and the gun is clean

The PSI Sweet Spot: As I adjusted the regulator from 340 psi up to 600 psi the shot velocity didn’t increase. There was a sweet spot around 375 psi where the shot velocity was greater than it was at 600 psi. I can’t explain it, any insight? Any physicists out there?

I really don’t want to replace parts like my valve for a Rocket or something else higher flowing. I’ve got money invested in 2 guns including all upgrades, my son’s and mine. I haven’t messed around with his yet, I wanted to get mine dialed in first.

I really need help with this one. I need to get out and play!

Thanks,

DRAGON
05-11-2006, 11:14 PM
If you don't want to put a higher flowing valve in, why not just put the old striker in and call it a day? Lighter striker means less dwell as you described. You throw in a heavier main spring and what happens?.... the maker has a more difficult time recocking. Don't know if that reg is the best flowing either. If you cut corners on the reg and valve, expect a lesser result. I'm not really an advocate of lighter strikers. Sure, you get less kick but it's a trade off for other introduced circumstances after, which includes a much more difficult time tuning. It seems as though you'd need to run at a slightly higher pressure as well from the loss of dwell duration. Add a lighter bolt and the difficulties esculate even more -

I'm sure there might be others that may disagree but that's my take anyways -

druid
05-11-2006, 11:42 PM
First paragraph.....it's the acs....the bolt itself seems to have issues under 700 psi. I've noticed this on 3 different forums and the complaints are all the same...recocking issues...and it's ALWAYS with the acs bolt in whatever marker it's put in.

Change out the bolt in favor of another with O-rings on it...and NOT a shocktech superfly...I speak from experience with it...
I suggest a sunbear from eaglelox (member's username on this forum), a lightening bolt or Hell...even a stock aluminum solid bolt that's compatable to the Pilot and has O-rings to seal the bolt chamber.

madmax
05-12-2006, 03:47 AM
what about a spudnukl bolt, i imagine they are better with low pressuere becasue they are more high flowing

Eaglelox
05-12-2006, 05:04 AM
try clipping your valve spring. check out my web on tunning light strikers. i also agree with Druid about the ACS. alot of people have problems going LP with the ACS. it allows to much air to go were it is not needed.

nbishop66
05-12-2006, 05:46 AM
Eaglelox, yeah I thought about that. When I was looking for a lighter striker I looked at your XL and the DH, and I checked out your tuning method. My choice came down to cost. I needed to buy 2 and I wanted to save the $30.:(

With all of your tuning and modding experience have you ever seen an e-spyder that lost FPS when the pressure was increased? My only thought is that the valve can only open so far, and the higher pressure (600psi) is pushing on the back of that cup seal shortening the valve dwell so much that it can't flow as much air as the same spring setup at a lower pressure.

I'm also not interested in spending much more $$ on this thing. Those bolts are in the $40-50 range x 2 = tooo much

I've about had it with this thing:mad: . I might just buy a damn Autococker Superstock VRT. Oh, I forgort, I'll also need to buy 2. Never mind:D

As far as the reg not having high enough flow, WGP puts the Ergo on their VT Tactical, and that baby's MSRP is $675. Up until this year I think it was on a $900 WGP E-Frame marker that could shoot at least 18 bps, and i'm not getting that out of this Pilot. I also understand that those aren't blowbacks, but I think it's more that adequate for what I need.

Thanks, Guys

druid
05-12-2006, 09:50 AM
With all of your tuning and modding experience have you ever seen an e-spyder that lost FPS when the pressure was increased? My only thought is that the valve can only open so far, and the higher pressure (600psi) is pushing on the back of that cup seal shortening the valve dwell so much that it can't flow as much air as the same spring setup at a lower pressure.

I've never seen it and I've successfully converted a Sonix (original), Esprit, 2 Xtras, '03 Imagine and a buddy's 98C.
You may be onto something about the pressure on the cupseal. Talk with Eaglelox about the possibility of creating a custom delrin cupseal with an aerodynamic flow design...kinda like on the Rocket Valve...

I'm also not interested in spending much more $$ on this thing. Those bolts are in the $40-50 range x 2 = tooo much

You can use a modified stock bolt. That's what...$10-$15 at most? x2=$30. Sell the ACS bolts and recover some of the $$.
I know what you are going through. I said the same thing when I read otter's site, I understood this to be a $400 (or so) investment that I didn't really need. I did it anyway though...LOL...6 times.

Thanks, Guys

It's frustrating, I know...believe me. I ended up selling my baby...the Esprit...to Bomberpilot07. I got tired of teching that marker. He made an offer for it and he got it. 6-8 weeks after he got it, he was still tinkering with it. I know this because I was on the phone with him every night he worked on it...lol...which was every night. He has less patience than both of us...I just chalk it up to his age...but he finally got it going - not to the lowest pressure that I had it at, but it's working.

Eaglelox
05-12-2006, 11:00 AM
in all the markers i have tuned i have learned, every marker flows different. upgraded parts work better in some markers than others.
no disrespect here but it is very true and i real don’t mean you but some people have better machanical/tunning skills. there are so many variables that it is tough to solve all LP problems on line. from what i have heard i would say the ACS is the best place to start. see if you can borrow someone’s bolt or buy a cheap stock alum off the B/S/T threads. another thing you can try is drill one hole larger 5/16 in the stock valve and use the 32 valve pin. i have never run into this but i have heard that some of the cheaper valves have problems with LP. have you tried a med main spring with the light valve.

nbishop66
05-12-2006, 08:24 PM
Eglelox, I'm fairly mechanically inclined, I work on all my buddies HDs when they run into problems. But there definitely is more going on in a paintball gun than mechanics. Frictional coefficients, air flow dynamics and gas chamber turbulence, all which is probably over most of our heads. I have access to a machine shop as well but donít really have the mechanical design skills and knowledge to machine up custom parts, just basic stuff. Right now it's set up with the silver (med) Main and the Black (light) valve.

I did drill out the hole in the top of my stock valve, and made my own valve pin. I called the pin "The Coke Spoon", you can guess why. That's what started me down this road. I could try the Coke Spoon in the 32* valve and see if that flows a little better. Mine makes the 32* pin look like a stock spyder pin.

I might machine up a custom cup seal out of T4, kinda like the brass one that came with the 32* Valve kit, but make it more aerodynamic, and maybe have the front of the valve spring recessed inside a bit. Good idea Druid.

Again, Thanks

Eaglelox
05-13-2006, 05:05 AM
i have machined the stock cup seals so they are conical from the spring side and help air flow around the cup.

ethan82000
05-13-2006, 05:18 AM
what is the point of doin that if you still have the spring guide in front of the cupseal? doesnt that block the flow some too?
Ethan

DRAGON
05-13-2006, 09:09 AM
You're right Ethan. The spring and the cup seal guide somewhat restrict and disturb the flow of pressure to the valve though streamlining the cup seal a little doesn't hinder it. Every little bit helps I suppose. First time I saw a company do that for this style of valve is on New Designz HP valve. This is another reason the Rocket valve flows so well is none of these things are in the way to create turbulance and flow restriction -