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jcrazyjj
04-26-2006, 10:06 AM
well for the last few weeks i have been supposed to be reading the book "Lord of the Flies" and well its a boring book and i didnt feel like reading it, so i didnt. now its biting me in the ass cause i have to right a paper about it. heres the subject at hand: Pick three characters in the story and discuss what they represent and demonstrate how/if they change thoughout the story. i need 2 quotes per paragraph, which i have. i have a very vague cheat sheet, with the quotes on em, and the three people i want to do are, Jack, Ralph, and Piggy. so any help would be awesome, thanks alot in advance.

marvin-martian
04-26-2006, 11:08 AM
i hated that book. all i remember about the characters symbolism is that one was jesus, one was the devil, a group was society, and one was a martyr(sp)

claustrophobia9
04-26-2006, 11:38 AM
wow... i had to watch the video and do an essay for my religion class. ill see if i can find it. simon represents how the boys loose track of who they are because of the beast. originally he states his name adress, phone, later he only remebers his name, then at the end, he remebers nothing. the beast symbolizes the devil or some sort of temtation. all i remeber i used linkin' park's papercut as my introductory sentence, espressing that everyone has a beast in them. make sure you quote simon when he says "maybe there is no beast, maybe it was just us" or w/e... looking for paper ill get back to you on jack and the other guy

jcrazyjj
04-26-2006, 11:50 AM
wow... i had to watch the video and do an essay for my religion class. ill see if i can find it. simon represents how the boys loose track of who they are because of the beast. originally he states his name adress, phone, later he only remebers his name, then at the end, he remebers nothing. the beast symbolizes the devil or some sort of temtation. all i remeber i used linkin' park's papercut as my introductory sentence, espressing that everyone has a beast in them. make sure you quote simon when he says "maybe there is no beast, maybe it was just us" or w/e... looking for paper ill get back to you on jack and the other guy

kick ass, umm, btw, its due tommorrow

claustrophobia9
04-26-2006, 12:09 PM
kick ass, umm, btw, its due tommorrow
rofl... from that sentence, most of my friends would think we grew up together, i had a 3 page essay due today, so i wrote it before school

lecture me all you want, i do it on all my essays and get 90-96%

oh, and i watched it last semester and i dont have it anymore. uh... jack or ralph, i think ralph (the protagonist) symbolizes the conscience inside all peple that tries to keep order. mention the irony in whoever WASNT used in the previous statement's comment (something like, not completely verbatum(word for word)) "lets keep it civil, we arent barbarians..." then later he ends up being the one who kills a pig. show the link between the "tribe" killing piggy and the pig. also reflect and say something about how you feel that YOU are the island, and sometimes it feels like two people are having a fued inside of you or somthing.

oh and i do completely condone NOT reading books for school cuz you are less likely to learn than if you read something by choice. i dont really care what happens to whoever the main charicater of the scarlet letter was, and in my death bead, i still wont. i think the teamwork and timesaving efforts that you learn by "leeching" off of others helps you understand the ways of the real world.

i would recomend reading sparknotes cuz i did watch the movie and not read the book (we watched it in class, i was never assigned the book)

vikingshadow
04-26-2006, 12:55 PM
oh and i do completely condone NOT reading books for school cuz you are less likely to learn than if you read something by choice. i dont really care what happens to whoever the main charicater of the scarlet letter was, and in my death bead, i still wont. i think the teamwork and timesaving efforts that you learn by "leeching" off of others helps you understand the ways of the real world.


Wow, I have to say that I'm disappointed in that attitude, but more so in that you blatantly say it in such a manor. What I see is that it's very indicitive of students these days. Why do the work when someone else can do it for you? Meh. I have to definitely disagree with you and this comes from me more as a reader than a teacher.

If students weren't required to read books like this, most would never even attempt it. Then, those who might actually end up liking it and maybe learning about it would never have gotten the chance to find out about it. I was "forced" to read this book when I was a sophomore and I ended up loving it. Same as several other books I never would have picked up, like The Old Man and the Sea, The Red Badge of Courage, almost all of the Shakespeare stories, so on and so forth. The whole idea behind required reading is not to just get you to think about different ideologies and such, but to experience reading something in a genre you might not normally read in.

As far as the "ways of the real world", I guess if you think the "real world" is "leeching" and cheating and letting your friends do the work for you, well then, lord help us! I always get a kick out of students who talk about the "real world." What experience in the "real world" do you base your thinking process? I know when I was in the business world, if a friend of mine leeched off of me on a report or whatever, you can bet he would have been canned in no time. The real world doesn't care for people who don't carry their own weight. Timesaving aspects? What's so important you can't take time to read a little?

Granted, not everyone will like everything about every story, you may even hate it! But my God, try it before you cheat, for crying out loud. That just smacks of laziness. For someone who tries to think as much as you do, I don't think you thought this all the way through.

Sure you learn a lot of the MAIN points by borrowing from your friends, but there are many subtle smaller points written into stories. Books aren't just collections of facts that highlight just the main points. There's settings, plots and sub plots, characters, nuances built in through all of the story lines...

Maybe this will help. What if NO one ever read the book? You'd be basing your answers off of someone who based their's off of someone, who based their's off someone and so on.....ever play the gossip game? One person whispers something to someone else, then you go around the room and the last person repeats what they heard? It NEVER comes out the same. Pretty soon, your version of the tale becomes watered down and means nothing.

I will agree that a person should read what they wish, but sometimes you have to do what you don't want to, including reading books you don't like. It never hurt a single brain cell, and you never know when you might learn something from it. At the very least, read the Cliff notes, or this Sparknotes thing Claus mentioned, because at least it's doing some of the work!

Sorry, but cheating is cheating, whether it's in school or on the paintball field. I don't care for cheating! Period. I can honestly say I never ONCE cheated in school. I read the assignments, as did most of my peers, because that's what we were supposed to do. Did I like them all? Hell, no! I hated a lot of them. Did I learn from them? Maybe, maybe not. But I guarantee you, my answer came from me, not from someone else.

durrell
04-26-2006, 01:15 PM
I don't cheat simply because I have a hard time trusting other people's work in school.

vikingshadow
04-26-2006, 01:19 PM
Hahaha! Then there's that, of course!

03TiburonGT
04-26-2006, 01:37 PM
I read LOTF about a month ago. Here's what I can come up with

Jack: Represents corruption and savagery (if thats a word). Impacted the story by being the leader of the corrupt savages by making his own tribe and hunting just about non-stop.

Ralph: Represents leadership and goodness. Impacted the story by being the leader of the main tribe for the majority of the story and becoming Jack's rival.

Piggy: Represents intelligence and brains but nobody listens to him because he's fat and annoying. Impacts the story by coming up with important ideas like having a fire going at all times for a smoke signal, etc. Eventually gets hit in the head with a boulder that got pushed off a cliff and looks HILARIOUS in the movie.

claustrophobia9
04-26-2006, 02:22 PM
not to hijack the thread but honestly, its cuz schools are wasting our time. go for 6 hours a day, then come home and do more because we cant pay teachers to just work longer and you do your work there, then of course we should give you very long breaks so you retain nothing and waste more of your time. give me a break, lets get it over with, we can do this alot faster. imo more time is wasted in schools than in the DMV and it needs reform, right now since i really cant take part in a very meaningful way in politics the only way i can really get my voice out is by taking part in activities that will cause people to see them and say "hey, maybe we should stop this", plus its not all that hard. Its not that im lazy, because i would gladly help others not do their work when ive done it so the vice versa can take place in an equal matter. so it isnt my standard of work thats the problem, its my standard of living, and i believe that the system that governs schools is far more inferior than fema, war efforts, epa, etc. ill give you a hint, if you get these kids learning something more than basics and analysis of novels, maybe teachers wouldnt have to tell their students answers to graduation tests (ohio) and maybe they would go on and invent something that helps fema or the epa or eliminate any need for war.

vikingshadow
04-26-2006, 03:19 PM
Ok, I had a big post typed up, but I've learned when it comes to education, students will most likely NEVER listen to teachers. For some reason, students always feel their logic is better than that of an adults, especially an adult teachers. I've also learned that once you get something in your mind, it's pretty much unchangeable, and since I'm tired of dealing with students with the very same attitude all day, I'll desist. Not agree, not give in, but back off because this discussion isn't going to accomplish anything but divide into sides.

However, I would have to say that yes, school does tend to be inefficient, but it's far, very far, from wasting your time. There are things that could be done better, just like anything else, but it's a definite necessity.

But before I leave, why do you only think the problems in school are related to the governing body and the adults in the school? Couldn't the attitudes and behavior of the students and their parents play a major part in this problem? Before you answer, I ask you do some research first. You'll find that the students attitudes are a major contributing problem in the school's inefficiency and the problems that make them "far more inferior than fema, war efforts, epa, etc." can be directly related to teacher burnout due to the lack of support from administrators and the constant problems in the classroom.

I'm not making the student a scapegoat. I merely ask that blame for a possibly failed system fall upon ALL responsible parties....and believe me, there are more than just adults involved.

Recon by Fire
04-26-2006, 04:50 PM
C'mon Vik, everybody knows the kids are all smarter than us. They did not get to be 14 or 16 for nothing :) LOL

LOTF= I thought it was a good story. Though it was reuired reading, it was for government class rather than English.


"Here piggy, piggy, piggy!"