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View Full Version : WTF? 121cps noid while maintaining FULL PRESSURE...............


DRAGON
04-21-2006, 05:09 PM
Wait till you hit the punchline of the news which is the last sentence of the paragraphs lol -

Wicked Air Sportz does it again! Several years ago we sat down with the Koganei (Humphrey) engineers to help design the solenoids that have been used in tens of thousands of paintball markers world-wide. We helped determine how fast the solenoids needed to be, and helped improve their response time.

This time we sat down with the best in the business, and the results are staggering! Until now, every solenoid manufacturer has rated their valves to cycle at a maximum of 20cps. Yes, some do go faster than that (some as much as 35cps), but they eventually "wear" into a slower speed. When we made the first Intimidator boards, Bob Long's team was using them and destroying everyone with unbelievable rates of fire. The secret to Bob's team markers was largely due to a custom programmed board that we provided to Bob Long that showed the marker's cycle speed. After testing boxes of solenoids using this special board, the team had the fastest solenoids available... until they got full of grease and other contaminants and started slowing down to the 20cps range, where they are spec'd at. It's good to be sponsored by a legend!

Enter better technology! As you can see from the graph above, the new Wicked Solenoid can cycle in excess of 120 cps guaranteed! This means that the air passages will fully open and fully close 120+ times per second. Now, the only limiting factor in a marker's cycle speed is the design of the ram itself! The solenoid's "ON" time is 4ms. This means that it takes 4ms to fully open and allow air to flow. The solenoid "OFF" time is 2ms. This means that it takes 2ms for the valve to shut and stop the air flow.

Here is an interesting bit of information - the ON time for a Humphrey solenoid is 8ms. The OFF time is 14ms! Add these two values together and that gives you the total time that air is pressuring the ram assembly (22ms). The original Humphrey solenoids (before we worked with Koganei to make them better) had an OFF time of 18ms. Reducing the OFF time by 4ms also reduced the amount of air being used to pressurize the ram, changing the performance of a marker (sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the worse). In reality, all markers require a certain amount of air to make the ram operate. When the amount of air is altered, the performance changes. Changing the OFF time, changed the performance of the ram with the AKA markers as they were being slightly starved for air. This is 100% of the cause of the infamous "first shot drop off" seen in the middle of the production run of the Viking and Excalibur markers. This is also why a simple fix is to just secretly increase the actual dwell time, which is what we did to "magically" fix the problem that some of the less informed people believed to be a hardware problem. Yes, the new Humphrey performed better, even with a slightly higher dwell needed. The Wicked Solenoid is a "direct acting" valve design. This means that we can change how fast the valve opens and closes, to fine tune the solenoid's usage to a particular marker (ram) design. Direct acting valves also are virtually unaffected by contaminants such as grease, water, and dirt. You can literally blow out the "gunk" and the solenoid returns to 100% functionality. This is simply not possible with a pilot operated valve design!

Because the new Wicked Solenoid operates so fast (and with higher airflow), it simply will not work in most markers without a significant code change, and more importantly, superior solenoid output. These solenoids, even though being nearly 1/2 the size of the Humphrey solenoid, draw 8 times the power (4 watts vs. 1/2 watt). They work with our boards, but not most others (i.e. Tadao, Tag, Virtue, Advantage, Lucky, etc.) due to our superior hardware designs.

Special coding is required to drive the solenoid, and will be included when we release v3.0 for all Equalizer boards. We no longer use "Dwell". This really is the wrong term for this, and is a carry over term from the Auto-cocker's trigger timing. The proper term is ON time and OFF time, and these are now independently adjustable to control the slew rate at which the valve opens and closes. Without special coding, just increasing the dwell (even as high as 25ms) will not work in most markers, and would be incredibly inefficient.

That's sounds great, but does it work? Yes, it does! Jack Rice's Alien Remains and Interceptor will be using this new valve. The raw cycle speed of the Alien markers on a bench test is 38cps, with NO optimizations to the ram design. Now that there is a faster solenoid, optimizations to the ram design can be done to increase the cycle speed! Once loader technology caught up and then surpassed our marker cycle speeds, we were at the mercy of the solenoid's performance for high rates of fire. Now that has changed, and we can potentially exceed the speed of any loader, and likely any future loader when using this solenoid.

So, is there a catch? Well, yes, the catch is power consumption and quality of the board driving this solenoid. If there has been any doubt to whether the solenoid output on our boards is sufficient, then here is the proof. Expect your 9 volt battery to last about 120,000 shots instead of the normal 500,000. Considering that most people change their batteries way too early (6.7 volts is where a battery change should occur), this is likely never going to be an issue.

Expected release date: May 8, 2006

MSRP: $59.95! (Compare that to the replacement cost of a "stock" solenoid!)

NOTE: PRE-ORDER PRICING WILL BE $49.95 for first 500 units, starting May 1st!

Supports: Any marker using barbs (Intimidator, NME, etc. - even electronic Auto-cockers!) We will have other manifold mount versions available in the near future. Please remember, if you do not have an Equalizer board in your marker, this solenoid WILL NOT WORK!

BTW be warned..........just remember that it took WAS 1.5years to finally complete the WAS board for the Impulse after announcing it. Some people payed for the board in the beginning and waited all that time to finally get it and still needed to send it back because of a programming flaw -

marvin-martian
04-21-2006, 05:11 PM
reading too many italics hurts my eyes

DRAGON
04-21-2006, 05:15 PM
reading too many italics hurts my eyes
Get yer eyes checked then lol - :smirk:

davidthegr8
04-21-2006, 05:22 PM
any vids?

phatphil
04-21-2006, 06:27 PM
So it has no practical use over any other Timmy noid.

Hob Hayward
04-21-2006, 06:31 PM
Now I ask, why do I need to cycle at 120 cps :S who can pull past 20 legally anyways?

Moe
04-21-2006, 06:37 PM
Now I ask, why do I need to cycle at 120 cps :S who can pull past 20 legally anyways?


It's a simple answer...It's "cool".

chubb0rz
04-21-2006, 07:34 PM
So it has no practical use over any other Timmy noid.
sure it does....price :p

i'm gonna preorder one have a project in need of a small noid ;)

Elfmaze
04-22-2006, 04:34 AM
its like a bike. Shure we can go 180 mph on them. but that just means there really good at going 90

thechubbss12
04-22-2006, 04:56 AM
lol Why not buy one just too say that you have one =)..... Then show your friends up.

DRAGON
04-22-2006, 10:25 AM
lol Why not buy one just too say that you have one =)..... Then show your friends up.

Ya, if you suck at paintball, it gives you something to talk about in the dead box lol -

phatphil
04-27-2006, 05:37 AM
I'm trying to figure out how they can only make this solenoid work with Equalizer boards...

chubb0rz
04-27-2006, 05:56 AM
I'm trying to figure out how they can only make this solenoid work with Equalizer boards...
its the programming. read the description more and it talks about the dwell times being split into On and Off times. Some boards/software doesnt support it. So not that it wont work the programming just has to be fixed or a seperate version for this noid has to come out.

druid
04-27-2006, 06:26 AM
aaaaah....the $200, 121cps Ion with QEV....can't wait :dodgy:

claustrophobia9
04-27-2006, 11:48 AM
its the programming. read the description more and it talks about the dwell times being split into On and Off times. Some boards/software doesnt support it. So not that it wont work the programming just has to be fixed or a seperate version for this noid has to come out. plus it uses 4 times the power... i like WAS blatantly advertising their original 500,000 shots per battery number when they showed it reach down to 120k shots per 9v... which is still fairly good. slap a titanium e-squared in and itll be back up near the original number.

timbertiger20
04-27-2006, 05:59 PM
Maybe it's just me, but my Borg shoots near 34 bps and I had to order 6 cases for a one day event this weekend........Like I need it to shoot any faster!

chubb0rz
04-27-2006, 07:53 PM
Maybe it's just me, but my Borg shoots near 34 bps and I had to order 6 cases for a one day event this weekend........Like I need it to shoot any faster!
cycles yes...shoots i doubt it. Why? b.c hoppers have trouble feeding that fast consitantly w.o breaking paint. But hey make a vid and i'll be a believer

timbertiger20
04-27-2006, 08:57 PM
GO to www.tagsportz.com ........I have a borg with the same settings and a Halo B with Cheetah Bob just tweaked and put all new internals in :) It screams.......I'm hoping to buy the pact measuring device as one of my next investments :)

chubb0rz
04-28-2006, 03:09 AM
GO to www.tagsportz.com ........I have a borg with the same settings and a Halo B with Cheetah Bob just tweaked and put all new internals in :) It screams.......I'm hoping to buy the pact measuring device as one of my next investments :)
well my g7 stock with a reloader b screams to...but you said 34bps...mid twentys is reachable but over 30 i have trouble believing...all you have to do is make a vid or sound clip than goldwave it and you could tell.

timbertiger20
04-28-2006, 07:05 AM
MacDev movie:
http://www.tagsportz.com/videos/
I'm not releasing pics or video of my marker until my team color scheme has been completed. I had to pull it our of anno shop to play a bunch of games. Going back next week for completion. Until then Tag's movie will have to suffice.......mine is setup identical to theirs though!

claustrophobia9
05-03-2006, 02:20 AM
you guys all know ydna right? well heres what he said about it all:

"Yes, I'm aware of the MAC 46 series valves. I actually have some here that
I've been working with for the past few days. Needless to say I'm not
impressed at all, the pressure they require limits their use and would
complicate things if it were to be used in an Ion (I'd have to crunch the
numbers but I doubt they would work at sufficient pressure to even recock
the bolt).

WAS hyped the living hell out of those solenoids but similar versions have
been available for quite some time now. Personally I much prefer the larger
indirect-acting solenoids that require significantly less power to operate
and can work at a wider variety of pressues.

-from Andrew "Ydna" DuBuc"

an email after a lenghty email discussion about modding stuff.


edit: he called them "mac 46" so i did some research and came up with this pretty manual:
WARNING THE FOLLOWING IS A 3 PAGE PDF FILE!!! (i hate opening pdf's by accident)
http://www.macvalves.com/Catalogs/NT/46.pdf

ydna stated it had a low range, but this shows 120psi

claustrophobia9
05-06-2006, 08:21 AM
did you guys know that WAS was bought by tippmann awhile back... i just stopped vomitting a lil bit ago

Spinal
06-07-2006, 06:19 PM
if you do not have an Equalizer board in your marker, this solenoid WILL NOT WORK![/i]
i cant believe i read all of that just to find out its completely useless to me lol.