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View Full Version : May be joining the pump group


vikingshadow
04-14-2006, 06:20 PM
Well, I've been thinking that when/if I start playing again, it'll be playing with a pump. However, beyond pumping each shot and the ability to use those little cheap Co2 cartridges, I know very little about pump guns.

Before I start, I have read Otter's pages on this, and several forum pages in different forums. Most of you know, when I play, I play tough and expect my equipment to perform as much as I'd like to perform, but I like looking good as well. I usually spend the money if I feel it's worth it. With this in mind, I've chosen a Phantom as my next possible gun. (I really think it looks cool, especially with that top feeder thing - not a hopper - and the 4 oz Co2.)

Now, I understand I can get a 4 oz with it, or use a 9 or 12 oz Co2 tank for a stock, but I like the T stock thing better I think. A 4 oz would get a lot of shots, right? Like a day's worth maybe? What is everyone's preference on this? Do you prefer the 4 oz or a 9-12 oz Co2 tank used as a stock?

Also, I don't like the looks of a hopper on the Phantom so I want one of those 15 round tube thingys. However, how the heck do you feed it? Do you uncap your tube then dump the paint into the tube? Or does the whole tube go inside it?

I understand that pumpers feel that pump makes you more patient, better marksmen, saves money, etc. But my issue is that when I played in the woods, I just got bored with the wait. On the speedball field, it's constant shooting. In the woods, it's hide, shoot, move up, wait some more, creep along, etc....are there any other benefits than the ones that are mentioned thousands of times? I'm fighting boredom in this case, which is why I left the woods in the first place!

Oh, by the way there are no other pump players around here, so stock class, modified, super stock whatever doesn't really matter. The only other guy that played pump ever was my co-captain on Catalyst - he started in the 80's so he's seen a lot, but I doubt he'd break out the old pumps to play (I think I'm a bit on the outs with the team right now due to my quitting or whatever reason...) Unless I travel to other parts of the state or other states, there are no stock class or other pump class leagues around, so I think, unless I hit D Day and a few other scenarios, there'd be no real tournaments I could play in - although it'd be cool to show up on the tournament circuit with a pump and own everyone!

I guess, besides the questions above, what is a good setup that won't break the bank? I'd like a Phantom, because like I said it looks good, and it seems to be light and such, but I don't know. I don't really want any cheapy pumps, unless they work wonderfully. Is it better to have a vertical Co2 or use one as a stock? Or, use the 12 grams? Should it be used as a front grip like my regs or or sticking off the back of the gun? Do they need a regulator? I assume it won't hurt to get Co2 in the gun. Just give me any suggestions, but not links, because quite honestly, I'm tired of reading thread after thread of useless bantering...

vikingshadow
04-14-2006, 06:38 PM
cont.-

This is the setup that I'm thinking about (not the color, just the setup although the color is ok.) I think I'd definitely like a hard line instead of the macro or is that not even necessary? I know this set up is very common, but I assume that's because it works so well. However, should I change the small 12 gram holder looking grip thing (do you really grip that since it's a pump?) for a 4 oz tank or what?

Is this a good setup? What about other guns and setups - pics and specs would be great! Prices even better!

http://www.phantomonline.com/images/2011-V-45-11-T.jpg

By the way - the price of this! Whew! (Although compared to my shocker, angel and T1, each of which was more when I bought it, and then the cost of the Sonix before AND after I was through with it.....guess it's not so bad!)

Recon by Fire
04-14-2006, 08:07 PM
That is a nice looking Phantom. I suggest the 15 round feed to the 10 round feed tubes. There is a feed gate cap at the end that is flexibile you can dump a ten round tube into it (it will even hold the tube in place). But it keeps the balls from falling back out. You should be able to shoot about two full 15 round tubes off of a 12gram. A ghost ring sight on top of that stock feed would be nice.

QAZ123
04-14-2006, 08:41 PM
Yeah a vsc setup phantom is the way to go. I should be ditching my sniper2 and getting another phantom very soon.

The 3.5 just screw's right into the vertical asa once you take the 12 gram changer and adapter off. Since you plan on going all out with it I would suggest getting the 15 round feed setup and get a center feed body just in case you ever want to run a 45 round hopper as it's only $30 more for the body.

To feed the phantom is simple. At the end of the feed tube there is what you call a feed gate with a flexible plastic ball retainer inside it. When you start running low on paint you just grab a tube and slap it into the back and let the ball's roll in. Once you get used to it you will be able to do it really really quick.

I prefer the 3.5 with t-stock over a 9 oz as it just make's the marker really really light and look's good that way.

Just remember to pick up a set of detent ring's if you do choose to get a phantom. There a must to stop rollout's but combined with the stock barrel and good ball's it's the most accurate marker on the market!

The 3.5 oz tank's I'm not sure how long they last but I'm thinking around 250 shot's per fill. What I do is have two on me filled and halfway through the day just switch them out and rechrono. Another thing with running a vsc is you won't have liquid co2 problem's since it's vertical and you'll stay really consistant.

As far as playing different type's of paintball I play mostly speedball with a pump but really in any scenario instead of going out there shooting your going to be moving a lot more and getting the angle's. Just make sure you have good backmen that know you can't do your job unless there doing there's. Also your snapshooting will become off the chizzle!! It takes a while to get used to the transistion and it is hard at first but it takes a while to get used to the crutch.

As far as you being the only pump player. I was the only pump player in my region this time last year. Now next weekend I'm promoting a pump tourney at my home field that's preregistration has surpassed any other pump tourney in the midwest/northeast/southeast. I believe a guy upstate from me was the only pump player also and now he has a pump group going on 30 strong! It just take's a little bit of talking to people and getting there interest and if they are interested talk to them about it.

As far as tournies go I'm not sure what kind of event's go on out your way. I know a group of pump player's from KY went to or are going to D-Day. That's not to say (if you do get into this type of play) you can't start your own pump league/series.

Not too mention though the cost of going to a long distance pump event is rather cheap compared to going to a closer semi tournament as your not even close to buying the amount of paintball's.

I bet your ex-teammate (not sure what kinda term's your on though) would pick up a pump again though. It seem's everybody I talk to that has been around since the 80's enjoy's pump play but doesn't do it often due to the fact that they just haven't seen it played in a while. Take my XPPL team for example. One is the head coach for semi pro team NTK and has played since 83 and since this xppl league has started all he talk's about is pump play. Heck he's driving 4 hour's tomorrow morning to meet up with another pump crew upstate just to play! The promoter of the xppl league is and ex Avalanche player who just want's to "level the playing field" so he made this pump series which after this year I'm positive we will see some great turnout's.

You might want to check out stockclasspaintball.com in there event's section and see if there is anything going on near you. Also look in the player's section and see if there are any other pump player's reside near you.

JB.

DRAGON
04-14-2006, 08:52 PM
Aha! A relm you haven't tackled yet huh? I like the 7oz/50 rounder setup better(I'm lazy) than throwing a 12gram in every 30-35 shots and having to change the tubes every 10 rounds. I'll throw a pic of my setup for ya some time this weekend. For under $200, a bit easier on the pocketbook as well. 7oz will get you around 500 shots, more than enough for a whole day of pump(that may take some getting used to for you ;) ). You'd think pump players would be less agressive if you hadn't used one before. I'm just as agressive using a pump as using a paint slinger. I just use cover more often, may just shoot a few shots at a time but pop out a bit more often from different areas of the cover. After you gain some experience, you really gotta try speedball or hyperball with a pump. Less likely you may survive the game against semi's but when you do, it's actually a great feeling of accomplishment -

QAZ123
04-14-2006, 08:59 PM
You'd think pump players would be less agressive if you hadn't used one before. I'm just as agressive using a pump as using a paint slinger.

Lol fer real I'm on top of the other team off the break most the time. You just gotta use the advantage of going out there with a lot less gear and put speed on your side.

JB.

vikingshadow
04-15-2006, 06:56 AM
Thanks guys! Like I said I'm really looking into it, just in case I decide to play again. Recon and QAZ, thanks for the information. I like the looks of the tank underneath as well and it'll be the setup I probably use.

Dragon, you know me too well. I'm slowly taking over the paintball world, one realm at a time! LOL! Of course, now I have to dispose of you for revealing my evil plot. When Vinny comes by, be sure to say hi! Mwahahahahaha!

Actually, I'd like to see pics of your setup. Just to get a reference. I've seen pumps, but they basically all look the same to me! As far as the moving around, that's good because I think I've spent too much time on the speedball course. Constant moving, you know? Last time I played in the woods, I couldn't hold still!

QAZ123
04-15-2006, 08:12 AM
Just remember though with a phantom you can do any type of setup you want as it's easy to change from vsc to backbottle hopper fed to bottomline hopper fed if you choose to get the component's to do so.

My next phantom will be vsc but I plan on also buying the center feed (or right feed) body as I noticed in the tournament's I play in sometimes the games are so quick I don't have a lot of time to even grab for a ten round tube so I think I'll roll with a hopper in 2 and 3 man tournies even though I like the 15 round tube better.

Just another option as far as the type of setup your looking for.

JB.

tigerdave714
04-15-2006, 10:15 AM
Having read your entire post and then just skimmed over the responses (sorry guys... Im a busy man) I have a few bits of insight to throw into the mix. You asked if anyone ever uses the 12gram changer as a front grip. During speedball, I never did. The games were quick enough that I never took my hand off the pump handle.

Also, you referred to the tank as a 4oz. JB and others may have pointed out that its actually a 3.5oz. A single fill on this tiny tank should last close to 300 shots. If you can get your hands on a bobbed valve you'll get even more shots per tank. And I dont know how much paint you'll use with your Phantom, but I go through less than 250 balls in a full day of pump speedball.

If you're concerned with filling the stickfeed from 10-round tubes I would suggest looking into some speedcaps or a capless harness. Speedcaps will allow you to hold the tube and flip the top open with your thumb for easy fast loading and no fumbling with the caps. A capless harness goes one step further. Lose the caps all together. Just pull out a tube, load, and drop.

The VSC setup you pictured above is probably my favorite as well. I've never liked the look of a hopper (of any size) on a Phantom, and the ones Ive tried seemed to handle funny. Hoppers are for snipers and pump mags. Phantoms gotta be stick fed.

Whatever you end up with, Im sure you'll enjoy it. And it may take some getting used to, but Im sure you'll be pissing off the kids with their uber-fast electros in no time at all.

DRAGON
04-15-2006, 11:35 AM
My Babies.............:cool:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e356/dbn71mgd/phantomII.jpg

Nuthin fancy. I'm there to tag people, not razzle & dazzle.The top is the new('05) and the bottom is the old('88). I have 11" & 14" barrels for both. The old version has a 1 piece body/barrel the new has a 2 piece. As you can see I've worn the letters off the trigger frame on the old one. The only real big difference in the 2(besides the bodies) is the old version has a wide open power tube and the new version has a venturied power tube. The loader has a mass produced flip-top lid. It has a simple latched button mechanism that releases the lit for filling. What they did is copy the old 35mm lens cap cover design -

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e356/dbn71mgd/phantom.jpg

The new one had a spring on the cocking link which I removed because it bugged the hell outta me. It restricted the speed in which I could pump off rounds. Why have 2 you say? Because I can lol -

I put one of my tubes in the pic to show you that I use a large rubber band to hold 2 tubes together. This causes less hastle loading since I normally load more than 10 at a time anyways.

BTW....there is such a thing as a 4oz bottle. I have 2 of them though I use a 7oz anti-siphoned with mine. I doubt there's an error in QAZ123's post about bottle size. Mine goes 1lb empty and 1lb 4oz full -

vikingshadow
04-15-2006, 11:57 AM
Honestly, I knew the 3.5 oz, but I think I saw them somewhere that said 4 oz. Also, it's not that loading concerns me, it's just I've never done it or seen it done. Sure I'd figure it out pretty quick, just covering bases.

LOL! Pissing off kids - did it with my electros, may as well do it with pumps. Might even piss em off even more! Hahaha!

Drago, those are nice! Not real big, either, judging from the tubes. Still leaning towards the vertical feed with the 15 rd tube, though. So, are these guns pretty easy to pump? I mean, can you hold a target in while you pump them? I know what an auto trigger is, my friend on the team explained them to me, but does the Phantom have them? Not that I care about speed right now, but I read on Stockclasspaintball that phantoms aren't really stock class because of the auto trigger.

Oh, and the guy that was on the team that was my cocaptain and I are still friends. We still talk. I'm going to ask him if he'd be interested in playing pump....

QAZ123
04-15-2006, 12:09 PM
Yeah I have one 4 oz tank and two 3.5 oz tank's. Not sure if you can buy the 4 oz's brand new anymore though.

Kinda odd but it look's smaller than my 3.5's

I like that top one Dragon.

Geez there's so many different way's to setup a phantom it just come's down to preferance.

JB.

QAZ123
04-15-2006, 12:18 PM
I must have posted the same time as your last post.

Phantom's pump stroke isn't as nice as other's but it's not a big deal the only time you think about it is during a game. I don't think it will effect your accuracy.

I will say the vsc phantom is the only marker I can literally pop out with my line of sight right above the 15 round feed and let a ball loose and hit it's target. There have been times when I have been snapshooting and hit a target and just wonder how in the world I pulled it off. I guess it might have something to do with nothing obstructing your view (hopper down the center) dunno though.

Edit-
As far as a phantom being stock class most marker's aren't "true" stock class anymore but then you have different type's of stock class now though. Stock class, modified stock class, super stock class (did I get this right Dave?). But yeah Phantom's have autotrigger but in the vsc mode it's kinda useless.

JB.

vikingshadow
04-15-2006, 03:17 PM
Is this a good deal? I was also thinking of buying a 3.5 oz tank for 23.00. I'd buy used, but I can't seem to find one that has a t stock for a price that seems reasonable.

http://www.wevopaintball.com/images/blueblackcciphantompumppain.jpg

Blue/Black acid CCI Phantom VSC 45 with gauged rear air adapter, matching t-stock, matching trigger shoe and clear parts = $367.45

I think the two colors (my favorite combination, as you know...) would blend into the woods pretty well, as well as look flashy on the speedball field. Does it appear to need anything else with it?

OtterSC
04-15-2006, 06:30 PM
my prices. (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/price-cci.html)

:)

vikingshadow
04-15-2006, 06:55 PM
Oh, dang! Otter, I'm sorry! I totally forgot you're a dealer of these things....do you have pictures on your stuff? Also, my eyes are a bit fried today, allergies and staring at this screen all day long, but I think I got it figured out. I'm sending you a pm right now!

druid
04-15-2006, 09:15 PM
vike just wants to build himself a Ghillie and call himself a Sniperrrrrrrr :D

vikingshadow
04-16-2006, 06:47 AM
LOL! Look out! He's a SNIPER! Every time I hear that word (Ghillie) I remember the story someone told here about farting in one and getting himself and his friends shot out.....:D

Ah'm gonna lay back in them bushes and shoot people from about 400 yards away!!!

More like, I'd be the guy in the bright red or blue jersey running around in the woods wondering where the air bunkers are! Hahahaha!

QAZ123
04-16-2006, 07:44 AM
Lol I was getting ready to mention that wevo had a blue/black acid wash in stock since I knew you liked those color's. Otter probably could get you a little bit better deal though maybe.

Otter you oughta look into selling stock class gear again now. I think Wevo has his hand's so full with order's he's had to hire part time help to get them out.

JB.

druid
04-16-2006, 10:47 AM
LOL! Look out! He's a SNIPER! Every time I hear that word (Ghillie) I remember the story someone told here about farting in one and getting himself and his friends shot out.....:D
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! wonder who that was?!?!?...:thinking: :whistling:
Ah'm gonna lay back in them bushes and shoot people from about 400 yards away!!!
Don't forget your 21" Taso Barrel
More like, I'd be the guy in the bright red or blue jersey running around in the woods wondering where the air bunkers are! Hahahaha!

LOL...been there, done that!

As far as markers go, you are as well versed in about all of them as anyone else worth their spit, so basicly...just get:
1. What you like @
2. what you can afford so
3. wifey stays off yer back so
4. we don't lose you as a player so
5. you can still have fun

vikingshadow
04-16-2006, 11:04 AM
Hahaha! That's the secret Druid - making the wifey happy...of course, I may be making her happy because she likes me playing AND I'd be saving some bucks by playing pump, hopefully!

tigerdave714
04-17-2006, 05:43 AM
Yeah, you'll save some bucks... unless you get into the Palmers guns, Carters, and/or oldschool collectibles that is. And its a cheaper to play (less paint/air) unless you get one of those pneumatic assist snipers that can outshoot a revvy.