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Sandman_Bravo
04-03-2006, 04:15 AM
Last week I was target practicing different paintballs in my gun after dialing in the springs. Since I wasn't playing there was no need for a mask. I had my face close to the rear of the marker and was sighting down the barrel when something flew off and hit me in the bridge of my nose. I felt a little blood, and looked down. The upper portion of the striker bolt plug (part 23fa) had broken off and flown into my face. The lower part that has the velocity adjuster was still in place and locked in with the quick release pin. I called Spyder support and they were very helpful. We ran through the parts on the gun, everything was in place and correct. Funny thing is there is no sign of damage to the body from the cocking pin travelling too far back (along with the bolt), the striker bumper/washer is in place and the gun continues to work fine. I did notice; from day one, that the bolt plug has about 1/4" of wiggle room-play in it. The polished pin that holds it in place in the body doesn't fit tightly in the groove of the plug or the marker body. Is this normal? Should I look for a larger diameter pin to reduce the amount of slop the plug has in it? I could go to the hardware store and find a grade 5 bolt or pin slightly larger than the stock unit. What caused the plug to break? Obviously the bolt struck the plug; but how? Has anyone else had this happen?

druid
04-03-2006, 06:44 AM
Last week I was target practicing different paintballs in my gun after dialing in the springs. Since I wasn't playing there was no need for a mask. I had my face close to the rear of the marker and was sighting down the barrel when something flew off and hit me in the bridge of my nose. I felt a little blood, and looked down. The upper portion of the striker bolt plug (part 23fa) had broken off and flown into my face. The lower part that has the velocity adjuster was still in place and locked in with the quick release pin. I called Spyder support and they were very helpful. We ran through the parts on the gun, everything was in place and correct. Funny thing is there is no sign of damage to the body from the cocking pin travelling too far back (along with the bolt), the striker bumper/washer is in place and the gun continues to work fine. I did notice; from day one, that the bolt plug has about 1/4" of wiggle room-play in it. The polished pin that holds it in place in the body doesn't fit tightly in the groove of the plug or the marker body. Is this normal? Should I look for a larger diameter pin to reduce the amount of slop the plug has in it? I could go to the hardware store and find a grade 5 bolt or pin slightly larger than the stock unit. What caused the plug to break? Obviously the bolt struck the plug; but how? Has anyone else had this happen?


Re-read your own post, and tell me again why it is you didn't need a mask? Murphy's Law, perhaps? Perhaps your parents will be the next set on National TV describing the horrors of your lost eye(s)...game play or not.

And this has happened before...you'd know if you did a search/looked around in the forums...

Tk-421
04-03-2006, 06:44 AM
here is a link to i think what happened to your marker http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=1731
hope this works out for ya...btw u should always wear a mask even when just target shooting

NB_Hacker_NB
04-03-2006, 01:08 PM
Re-read your own post, and tell me again why it is you didn't need a mask? Murphy's Law, perhaps? Perhaps your parents will be the next set on National TV describing the horrors of your lost eye(s)...game play or not.

...


Couldnt have said it better.

Dr.No
04-03-2006, 02:41 PM
The exact same thing happend to me yesterday while playing with my friends. Luckily i was wearing my mask (middle of a game) and didnt even notice. I dont know if its possible but it seems to have increased my airflow. After the match when the damage occured my friend said plz check your gun coz you just split my hand open with a paintball. thats when i noticed the damage. I had just chronoed like 10 min befor but after the cap was gone i got like a 20fps increase that i had to change springs to get back down. Is kingman doing anything about this problem or does someone need to loose an eye first. And yes definitly always wear your googles even when practice shooting but last i checked the lenses were designed to stop paintballs not flying bits of steel.

on a side note i think this is where alot of the recoil (that was causing me to double shoot per one pull) was coming from. Likely its also what caused my velocity set screw to fall out and the velocity adjuster to be always on the move.

Sandman_Bravo
04-03-2006, 03:03 PM
My father won't be on TV since he's dead. I AM the parent; I'm a 40 year old father of 3. Being new to paintball I assumed the only need for a mask would be for protection from being shot at. How would I know to search the forums for something breaking off due to blowback if I've never encountered it before? I don't wear a mask when target practicing with a regular firearm so I didn't see the need. In the future I will wear safety glasses though. Thanx for the info TK-421.

druid
04-03-2006, 03:34 PM
My apologies Sandman...but only for the 'parents' comment. Normally, the boards are swarmed with children under the age of 17...who, for some reason, just don't 'get it'...and we are left to fend away the very angry parents of wounded children and the biased, "action news" glory-hounds...

I still maintain my opinion that you should always wear eye protection when working around markers...the point is that stuff happens (hence my reference to Murphy's Law) which you happened to experience first hand. It WILL happen again. What will happen? Who knows...but the Law will assert itself any chance it can.

After going through life with only one working eye, I have gained an immense appreciation for what I had - up until shortly after my 34th birthday. That was when a surgical procedure became available to correct the problem I had. I can't imagine having to go back to that and certainly wouldn't wish it on anyone else...nor will I apologize for it.
Good luck with your marker and I'm glad you're ok.

Sandman_Bravo
04-03-2006, 04:50 PM
Thanx, and congrats on your recent op. I had read your post on the incident prior to this one. I can understand your fervent position on eye protection.

ooglieboogliebob
04-03-2006, 07:38 PM
... umm.. that's your venturi popping out Dr.No ... and that is one of the boltmod's actually ... the venturi should have been loctited though ... ?? ... anyways ... that does increase the velocity ... and all of that good stuff though ...

Dr.No
04-03-2006, 08:04 PM
The acs bolt doesnt have the venturi correct? My pilot has the acs bolt.

ooglieboogliebob
04-03-2006, 08:18 PM
nope ... it doesn't ... thats pretty weird something popped out ... ??

Dr.No
04-03-2006, 09:08 PM
the dust cap seperated from the velocity knob part. Check out the pic on this thread http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=1731
it looks exactly like that. could have been a fluke but i couldnt seem to adjust it under 310 fps without changeing a spring. And befor it broke i had lost my velocity set screw because the knob was constantly walking itself out of the gun from all the recoil i guess. seems to stay relativly still now.

bungeye
04-04-2006, 03:36 AM
no the acs bolt dont have the venturi (from what ive herd and sceen) there is a screw in place of it.

Tk-421
04-04-2006, 09:02 AM
no problem man..im going to try an keep an eye on my dust cap cause i just got a piolt acs not to long ago and have only gone through maybe 3 hoppers worth of paint..just to get an idea roughly how long have u had your pilot and how many paint balls have you used before you incountered this problem, one more thing..is this from the recoil/double fire ive heard about in some of the other posts

Sandman_Bravo
04-04-2006, 09:43 AM
Me? I've shot approx. 2000 balls.

Tk-421
04-04-2006, 10:43 AM
ok, i think ill take a look at it tomorrow when i goto my pb shop for a spring kit and to see about getting a new frame for my old sonix..it should be ok cause i havent had any problems with recoil/double fire ( if thats what is causeing the dust cap to shear off ) but if its from some thing else im not sure how it will be

druid
04-04-2006, 11:21 AM
let me ask you this...was the recoil pad in it's proper place? The black bumper...

From the front of the marker to the back, it should go...
<---valve<---striker<---Black Bumper<---Velocity adjuster

I find it tough to swallow that the bolt has been hitting the back plate if all was in properly...doesn't mean it couldn't...is there any damage to the back of the bolt, showing that it hit the dust cap? Perhaps posting pics of:
the inside of the dust cap pieces and the back of the bolt...

Tk-421
04-04-2006, 11:45 AM
yeah, some pics would be great..that way when im lookin over my marker i would sort of have an idea of what to look for

TheRedBarron
04-04-2006, 01:02 PM
Thanx, and congrats on your recent op. I had read your post on the incident prior to this one. I can understand your fervent position on eye protection.

It is not just his position, it is the position that should be taken by all people in the game. We are older (Druid, myself and you) we set examples for the kids If you don't wear your mask at all times then the kids will think its ok for them not to. that and crap happens, take the precautions to stop it from hurting someone.

Dr.No
04-04-2006, 01:38 PM
I'm not sure about the others but there is not a bit of damage on my bolt from hitting the dust cap. I would like to see the cap itself to see if there are any marks on it but i was playing in the woods and didnt notice when it happend so its gone. for me it was about 2500 rounds. Yes the bumper was in place and the marker is always properly cleaned and oiled.

legman
04-04-2006, 02:15 PM
Purchased 2 pilot ACS, one blue fade one red fade approx one month ago for my son and me. So far Kingman has replaced one cocking bolt under warranty due to the bolt bending on the blue fade. Played Narnia scenario this past weekend and the striker bolt plug #23FA broke in half with top half splitting off and the cocking bolt bent again on the blue fade gun. Spoke to tech who will be sending a modified striker bolt #JE18A as well as a new cocking bolt. Both guns chrono under 280 with stock springs and the striker buffer #26A are in the correct position and both are set up with CO2. My son's gun has had no problems and performs flawlessly. That figures mine- has the problems! Former guns were spyder victors. Tech has been extremely helpful and sends parts out rapidly. Tech stated that the top half of the striker bolt serves no purpose and newer models do not have the top piece. Read into that what you want. Is it only the blue fade that is having this problem?

Hob Hayward
04-04-2006, 02:42 PM
What do you mean when you say striker bolt? The thing in the top tube is called the bolt, in the bottom tube is the striker.

Not sure what your saying when your talking about the top half of the striker bolt...

Dr.No
04-04-2006, 02:51 PM
You (Legman) are the first I've seen (out of about 6-7 ppl) with this problem that didnt have the red/black pilot. Of course its not nessesary but it sure helps keep dirt out of the gun. How man rounds has your son shot through his gun? Make sure he wears a mask ANYTIME he is shooting with it, seems almsot a sure thing that the plug will break. Yours is also the first ive heard of the cocking bolt being bent but that seems to fit with the theory of the bolt traveling too far back. For me, befor it broke, the cocking knob kept coming out while i was shooting. I think it was just from the bolt hitting the cap and causing the spring/bearing to loosen for a second as it hasnt happened since the break.

Sandman_Bravo
04-06-2006, 03:24 PM
It happened again. I was dialing in a red dot sight I added to the marker when it recoiled excessively and the cocking pin flew at my face. I always wear safety glasses now so there was no injury. I chopped a ball at the same time and got paint up into my hopper as well. There must be some sort of problem with these Pilot ACS models, too many other people are having issues also.

Hob Hayward
04-06-2006, 03:54 PM
Just leave it halfway broken then, better to have that than dust caps breaking in your face...

Sandman_Bravo
04-06-2006, 06:19 PM
Sorry, I meant excessive blowback ocuured again. I saw abnormal recoil out of the corner of my eye and the cocking pin flying off. The upper portion of the cap did not break again. The new cap Spyder sent me seems to fit tighter against the body and together with the quick release pin; maybe having something to do with the issue. I have been racking my brain trying to figure what to do about this. Two things come to mind: 1-would switching to an air setup or a regulator help? Maybe CO2 pressure spikes are responsible? 2-would milling down the inside of the bolt portion of the dust cap give clearance in the event of excessive blowback?
I really researched on-line before buying my first marker. Man, I feel like I picked the wrong one. I appreciate everyone's help and input anyway.

Dr.No
04-07-2006, 04:24 AM
well the day mine broke was also the first day i played with my new HPA with a reg setup so i dont think so. Thats odd that the new part fits tighter, there was significant gap on the stock piece.

druid
04-07-2006, 09:39 AM
If the psi is spiking over 850ish, it could be a problem. Try dialing it down at to around 700ish with a good inline regulator and a good gauge. Centerflag gauges are pretty accurate.

Blow-back into the hopper is normally a result of a poorly sealing bolt. If the ACS has ORings, try changing them. If not, I'd say switch to some other 'standard' aluminum bolt (with O-rings) and see if that helps.

legman
04-07-2006, 05:54 PM
Received replacement parts from Kingman today. Excellent response on sending parts. Previous post mentions modified part being sent. Part 23FA striker bolt plug. Top part that goes into the back behind ACS has been shaved down. Part does appear to fit tighter that my son's gun. Will update as I get opportunity to shoot.

Sandman_Bravo
04-18-2006, 03:44 PM
Yep, can't freakin beleive it- broke AGAIN! I'm leaving it broken off for now.