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View Full Version : Phantom vs. Pump Cocker


phatphil
12-29-2005, 10:06 PM
Which do you prefer and why? I've decided I need one, after using my friend's pump everytime we play (which is now a chromed out Dye Carter :)).

I'm leaning towards the pump cocker right now because I can build it for under $200, and the VSC Phantom setup with stock runs about $350.

ttink
12-29-2005, 10:14 PM
Well, the phantom would be lighter and more efficient. But the Cocker would be cheaper, tho you could find VSC setups with stock for cheaper than $350. thats a little steep.

phatphil
12-29-2005, 10:58 PM
I haven't seem them any cheaper then $330-$350 for what I want brand new, who has them cheaper then Wevo?

geeZus
12-29-2005, 11:27 PM
I didn't like the pump on my Phantom. It was a pretty stiff pull I thought. Maybe QAZ will chime in on this, he owned the Phantom after me, and has had a few since, so he can speak on whether that was a normal thing or not. I just thought it was insanely tough. I mean, I'd have the stock against my shoulder, and pump it and the barrel would move so much I'd lose my line of sight. From what I've heard, the CCM pump kits on cockers are very smooth, probably a ton better than my Phantom was.

QAZ123
12-30-2005, 05:26 AM
If you have can come up with good deal's for a cocker and pump kit then you might want to shoot for that. You don't see too many vsc phantom's under $300 even used one's!

I'm on my third phantom and had one sniper 2 (cocker with pump kit). The sniper 2 I had a CCM pump kit on it and the pump stroke was very smooth. I added a return spring to it which took away from the smoothness a little but not much. I liked it but just didn't need it at the time!

The pump stroke on Phantom's is a little rougher than most I believe but it can be fixed! Adjusting the nut at the end of the pump arm help's. Also polishing the internal's help's out quite a bit. My teammate also told me to cut two ring's off of the return spring help's also. The reasoning for the pump stroke on a phantom to not be as smooth is because there is only one arm attached to the bolt. When you go to pump it you are actually putting force on the bolt and twisting it a little hence the resistance! But if you do those few thing's I believe the stroke turn's out great. I have no complaint's about the pump stroke on my last two phantom's once I tinkered with them!

I personally would look around and try and find a good deal on a phantom or sniper 2 and just bounce on the best deal you can find.

When I went down to Nashville, TN to play with my teammates a guy was there with a 02 bodied cocker (matte black color), 72/4500 stubby, 45 round hopper and just the wgp pump kit which is the cheaper pump kit. That thing was sweet and extremely light! Heck you can pick up 02 vf bodies for a little over $100 buck's now!

How far are you and Metro away from Columbus, OH? There's a whole crew of guy's up there balling with pump's! I'm gonna make the trip up to play with them sometime soon it would be cool if you two could meet up! Actually one guy is getting ready to host a pump tourney in March I think!

G my silver one just needed some tinkering. Needed a little bit of oil on top of the bolt and just adjusted the nut back to lighten the spring and it was pretty nice. My teammate that I traded with for a black one polished the internal's and now it's even nicer. Just the little thing's can make a world of a difference.

Honestly after having various traccer's, phantom's, sniper's and even a sterling I've noticed I never pay attention to the pump stroke while in a game only when I'm tinkering with it.
JB.

QAZ123
12-30-2005, 07:53 AM
http://invisionfree.com/forums/StockClassPaintball/index.php?showtopic=11103
VSC phantom for sale with a ton of goodies! Trust this guy! He's one of the promoter's for the Southeast pump league series! He's sponsored by Arrow Precision(Sterling's) now and can't use a phantom. It's a pretty good deal and I'm sure knowing him it is in great condition! JB.

LionHeart07
12-30-2005, 09:05 AM
JB pretty much summed it up pretty good, but I'll throw in my 2c

I've owned both, and I personally like the sniper, due to the smoother pump stroke and its weight. I like the feel of a heaver gun, thus increasing my comfort with a Sniper. Phantoms of course will be more efficient with 12g, and they have one of the best customer service in the market. I guess you can say Snipers have that "customablility" (sp?) factor, where you can pretty much change anything you wanted to it.

People complain how stiff the phantom's pump stroke is, but like JB also said, you don't really care about the pump stroke during the game, just when your tinkering with it.

QAZ123
12-30-2005, 09:09 AM
And really as far as the pump stroke goes. It's not really a pull it's more of a snap well for me anyway's. Usually during a snapshot I try to get two shot's off and to do that I gotta snap that arm back quick, fast in a hurry so it's just so quick you just don't think about it.

JB.

ttink
12-30-2005, 12:49 PM
I haven't seem them any cheaper then $330-$350 for what I want brand new, who has them cheaper then Wevo?O, sorry, i was talking about used ones.

tigerdave714
12-30-2005, 03:14 PM
I love the Phantom for its light weight, efficiency, and accuracy. I love the Sniper because it handles just like any other semi, and you can use most of the gear/upgrades you may already own with it (cocker barrels, hoppers, regs, etc...). Not to mention you can piece one together for dirt cheap these days. All boils down to personal pref. though. Depends on your budget and what you like.

If you're considering a Sniper or a Phantom, let me throw another name into the mix. Have you considered a Sterling?

QAZ123
12-30-2005, 04:44 PM
Have you considered a Sterling?
There's actually a pretty nice white vertical feed one on the nation right now with an all american barrel! I'd post the link but I'm uploading stuff on 56k right now which ummm... stink's!

JB.

metromuppetmower
12-30-2005, 05:15 PM
i'm building a cocker pump right now. i got a great deal on the body. i got the 2k3 body,lower internals,va,bolt,back block,front block. all for 30 shipped(gotta love resale in this case.) and i got a ccm pump kit by trading my kingman hammer for it. all i need now is a nice slider frame and i will have my second build cocker pump.

phil you will have to use that(cocker pump) instead of my chromed buzzard now

LionHeart07
12-30-2005, 06:38 PM
i got a ccm pump kit by trading my kingman hammer for it.

Hurray for me trading with metromuppetmower :waytogo:

Thanks again dude.

QAZ123
12-30-2005, 07:53 PM
Wow that Hammer didn't even leave the forum sweet!

JB.

phatphil
12-30-2005, 08:55 PM
QAZ - I'm in Springfield and Metro (http://metro-paintball.com/ for their address) is in South Charleston. It could be a drivable distance for us. Do you know the name of the field they play at? Damn that VSC is already pending, I wanted that :(.

LionHeart - That sounds good, I'm leaning towards the sniper also.

Dave - That's exactly what I was aiming for :), piecing one together, I've got a cocker threaded pipe kit right now, and a rail and on off I can borrow from my Ion. As for the Sterling, I never really have looked into them much. I'm looking at a picture of one on SCP right now and I'm not sure, I really need a reg or foregrip of some type to hold onto to help me aim, besides the pump handle. I like something vertical. Is it possible to put a foregrip on those?

Kyle - I know :)

ttink
12-30-2005, 10:31 PM
The new Sterlings come in a VSC format and have many configurations like the phantom. You can go direct feed, HSC, VSC, or C/A with a direct feed or anywhere in between. Something to look into.

phatphil
12-30-2005, 10:58 PM
Ttink can you find some pics of a sterling set up with vertical air? I'm not finding any on the Arrow Precision site.

DRAGON
12-30-2005, 11:51 PM
I didn't like the pump on my Phantom. It was a pretty stiff pull I thought. Maybe QAZ will chime in on this, he owned the Phantom after me, and has had a few since, so he can speak on whether that was a normal thing or not. I just thought it was insanely tough. I mean, I'd have the stock against my shoulder, and pump it and the barrel would move so much I'd lose my line of sight. From what I've heard, the CCM pump kits on cockers are very smooth, probably a ton better than my Phantom was.

I know exactly what the prob was, it's the spring on the pump linkage, hence the stifness. Remove it and it will shoot like butta, all is golden. The first time I used my new Phantom it drove me absolutely nutz. As long as you get used to pushing the bolt completely forward and keeping it there til you shoot, it will have no probs w/o the spring. Think that's what drove me nuts, I was so used to not having that spring with my old one it was prolly more intense a hinderence for me than you -

Phantom vs. Pump Cocker? lolz.....Kinda silly asking what everybodies preference is since it 's yours that you should be concerned with - ;)

ttink
12-31-2005, 12:07 AM
Ttink can you find some pics of a sterling set up with vertical air? I'm not finding any on the Arrow Precision site.
heres some pics... apparenlty they are prototype pics tho... those are old tho, as you can see on the thread. (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1263188&highlight=sterling)

Recon by Fire
12-31-2005, 12:39 AM
Those new Sterling look so tempting :)

Moe
12-31-2005, 01:28 AM
I would get a phantom. Lighter, more reliable, doesnt need upgrades, more efficient, uuhh, what else. Smaller profile. Easy transition from stock class feed to hopper feed. Did i mention uber sexy? Yeah, phantom all the way in my book. I have owned 3, and loved them all.

OtterSC
12-31-2005, 01:45 AM
as an owner of both, i prefer the Phantom. no need for upgrades. great tech service. most of the time you call, you get the maker and not some dumb techie that talks down to you. lighter.

also, here is a link that you may be interested in... Phantom vs Sniper (http://airsoldier.com/~phog/articles2.html)

QAZ123
12-31-2005, 06:19 AM
QAZ - I'm in Springfield and Metro (http://metro-paintball.com/ for their address) is in South Charleston. It could be a drivable distance for us. Do you know the name of the field they play at? Damn that VSC is already pending, I wanted that :(.


They play at cannons paintball outside of columbus I believe. There's three main guy's rolling some sick pump's and then some other local's that pick them up occasionally. Let's get this crappy winter over with and I'll see if I can get them and you guy's to all meet up somewhere.

JB.

phatphil
12-31-2005, 06:43 AM
Dragon - I don't know my preference, as I've never used a Phantom. I have used a pump cocker which I liked, besides the efficiency. When you are shooting this little paint, bad efficiency doesn't really bother me much though.

Moe - They are very sexy.

Otter - Thanks for the link.

QAZ - Sounds good!

lugnut808
04-03-2006, 12:53 AM
This is not lugnut808 this is kiserchief808 even though i am using his, i can't quite post anything yet. Anyways, i am very interested in this topic and i know that i am going to build a pump from an autococker. so is there anyone selling one for a desent price?

leed
04-03-2006, 04:06 PM
I haven't seen any recently, but I'd check PBnation for the best prices. But you will need to do a little surfing (or searching if you're on late enough). Trust me, it takes a while.

Anyways, I personally think a Phantom would be the better choice for a stock-class only/pump only player, as its purpose is only as a pump. They're much lighter, smaller, and much better out-of-the-box than an Autococker is.

But, here is where I might stray from that. If you're a 50/50 between Pump/Stock and Semi/Whatever-else, I'd go with the Autococker, unless, of course, if you currently have another semi you usually play with. But if not, the Autococker would be the way to go, as it is A. Cheaper, as you said, B. Much more upgrade-able, which is so fun!, C. It can easily be switched from Mechanical/Electronic to Pump just by swapping the front block out, D. If you decide to go stock class, you can easily make your own feed, as many have done.

Just my $0.02.

EDIT: Wow, I just realized how old this thread is, LOL.