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View Full Version : What (in your opinion) makes a good paintball gun?


Solitare2point1
04-15-2009, 08:42 AM
There is always going to be bias and speculation on the internet by children, teens, and adults alike as to what the best paintball gun manufacturer is. However, no one seems to be able to accurately describe "why?". People tend to say, "it's because they're more expensive". Well that may be, but that doesn't mean a damn thing in my opinion.

So, why is it that the more expensive guns like the Proto's, dye's, angel's, etc... are revered as being the best guns available while the spyder's and ion's are described as noob?

What are the commonalities between the high end and low end that make a good paintball gun?

RSX99
04-15-2009, 10:07 AM
Consistency, efficiency and features IMO.

kramernator
04-15-2009, 11:54 AM
Consistency, efficiency and features IMO.

pretty much... i don't know to much about the high end guns but i would have to say that mr. rsx99 nailed it... oh one more thing, weight/size. less weight/smaller is generally better.

irishwarrior
04-15-2009, 12:54 PM
I don't know much about the high-end markers but personally I look for easy to adjust (trigger pull, velocity, etc...), consistent, compact, durable and easy to maintain and clean.

bigred76
04-15-2009, 01:23 PM
View it this way... a Bentley costs as much as it does for a reason. Craftsmanship, design, and power.

The same can be said for any paintball marker. Spyders are slapped together, while Angels are fine tuned from the factory after being precision machined. Tippmanns are made from pot metal, while Ego's are made from high-grade aircraft aluminium. Piranha's... well... they just plain suck.

The one MAJOR component that makes all of these high-end markers is electronic control of the air-powered operating system. With this, shots are reproduced, time after time, meaning the utmost consistency and accuracy. With a Spyder, it's a coin flip. I'm not saying all Spyders are this way, as if you dump in close to $200 to make it LP, it might just be good.

Then we have ROF. The faster a gun can shoot, the more responsive it is. It'll shoot every time you pull that trigger. This is essential for reliability, as if you need that extra shot, it's always there (i.e., someone coming to bunker you after you shoot a lane). Also part of reliability is maintenance. Due to the anti-chop eye systems on most high-ends, this is a snap. It's just simple re lubrication.

SpyderMan723
04-15-2009, 02:45 PM
what tim said.

XSiv Force
04-15-2009, 06:32 PM
Piranha's... well... they just plain suck.

I TAKE OFFENSE TO THIS ITS GO TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mad: :angry: :flame: :cussing: :medieval: :tank: :tank2:

slim and shady
04-15-2009, 07:03 PM
Meh not really feeling like giving my opinion on this today. maby latter

fatkidfrompbaz
04-15-2009, 08:59 PM
one thing, it's not about what high-end or low-end marker you have, it's how well you play on the field, skills take time not in a instant moment.

buffblackbird2002
04-16-2009, 03:10 AM
one decisive factor for me has been reliability. i have had my TL Plus for about 8 years and have yet to have to fix it. a spring 4 years ago and a tear down/clean/rebuild this year is as far as fixing goes for me. it hardly ever chops and consistently fires at 285 fps. RELIABILITY

bigred76
04-16-2009, 03:19 AM
Bring it on, XSiV... ;)

shunut
04-16-2009, 05:36 AM
Consistency, efficiency and features IMO.

:yeahthat:

To add to that, it has to have all of this, directly out of the box.

Paintball Freak
04-16-2009, 09:47 AM
Piranha's... well... they just plain suck.

Plastic! lol

Solitare2point1
04-16-2009, 04:32 PM
Ok well I guess the thing that bothers me is this.

I use visible impact paint (wal-mart), I have an 09 spyder pilot with the locking feed neck, invert reloader 2 10-12bps, jnj 14" ceramic barrel, and a 20oz c02 tank. Now... this gun is consistent at 285 fps, it never breaks paint (even when using visible impact the recon camo bursts all the time but that paint sucks), it's accurate is very consistent, cleaning is easy as hell. Adjustment is easy. So by the very consistent things being said in this thread it is to be considered by me a "good gun", however if I put money into this gun to upgrade it I will get bashed STILL for using a n00b gun. I don't understand the logic.

Yes I know it's not precision tuned, and it's not aircraft grade titanium, but it does everything else (as in playing the game) very well, and can shoot a lot faster with a faster reloader. So, where does all this hate come from? I guess that is why I made this thread, to see why (by most of the paintball community I've interacted with thus far) people consider it "stupid" to upgrade an ok starter gun into a "good" starter gun. If I can get quality performance for less money I don't know why it seems like something that can't be comprehended.

For example:

I play a ton of video games, been playing competitively since I was 16 (I'm 23 now) in LANs and stuff in the FPS genre. This has made my reaction skills a lot better than a lot of people, and I'm now noticing this difference not only in virtual games but in paintball. I kind of predict a little better as well and I try to use the same type of strats I use to trick people in video games on the field. So, that being said (and being as modest as possible) I wanted to try a 1v1 against a seasoned player. I jumped in against a guy a little older than me, had a very nice gun and equipment (bob long gun I think, vice or something). Long story short I got the best of him by diverting his attention to one side of his temple he was hiding behind and got to the other side before he saw me. I hit him in the leg when he tried to switch sides. It was as if I murdered his favorite pet. He accused me of cheating and demanded my gun be checked almost 3 times. He left the field all together after that.

All of this because I use a Spyder? Really?

slim and shady
04-16-2009, 07:08 PM
no one is saying a spyder is a "bad" gun. to you it may be a great gun, however it may not be a great gun to somone else. Red and I have this conversation on a very regular basis. I know what you are saying, in a seance how much is to much.
a few examples are as fallows

A high end and a spyder...

Both markers are designed to shoot a ball X amount of feet per second. Each marker does this.

cleaning mantinence for a spyder is probably the most simple designe ever (one of the reasons its targeted as a starter marker) For a highend it may be aslight bit more hasstle but not enough to consider it a difference.

reliability I find spyders to be very reliable another reason I beleive there targeted toward new players, probably a good reason for them being reliable is how easy they are to maintain. Highends are reliable too.

efficiency, spyders are not efficent this to me though is a mute point air is free and the fill station is 3 feet away if I gotta stand there for 3 seconds before I head out no big deal. highend markers are very very effiecent with air. there may be a few exceptions but for the most part there good. But again to me not that big of deal.

accuracy to me again this is kind of a nonpoint, your shooting a very inaccurate unstable round with alot of verriables. I dont find the increased accuracy of any highend marker to justify the high end price. its just not THAT much better.

any spyder I have owned has bein consistant (so long as your using HPA) however I have no doubt a highend would be very consistant. I have heard alot of people having inconsistancys in there velocity with spyder though. But most were using Co2 so its to be expected.

BPS most places your limited to 13-15 BPS anyway spyders can acheive this so again another nil point.

So to sum it up I have a hard time also trying to figure out what the big deal is with highends if they do the same job why pay 5 times more for one over the other?

What I do notice with with highends and what I like about them are as fallows.

-there crazy light I dont think I need to explain why this is nice.
-very quite not a huge deal but something I like about them

I think there are a few things that make people beleive one marker is the best. One is Hype markets hype up products all the players think wow I need that they get it something else comes out so now what they just bought is garbage. Look at the minis everyone needed one of those and would step over there own mother to get one now all you see on BST's are threads of minis for sale. another thing is what the pros say are good, I was happy to see BC take that tournament a wial back with the RSX just to prove you dont need a 1500$ gun to win. This to me again is more of a tournament thing, playing woodsball no one cares if you use a spyder, tippy, DM or launcher for that matter. Finally my overall look on it is this, it doesnt matter whats in your hands its how you use it. If you think a gun is good and it works for you thats all that matters.

bigred76
04-16-2009, 11:50 PM
Finally my overall look on it is this, it doesnt matter whats in your hands its how you use it. If you think a gun is good and it works for you thats all that matters.

Truth.

Both markers are designed to shoot a ball X amount of feet per second. Each marker does this.

Truth to a point. It's much like comparing a Bugatti Veyron to an '89 Honda Civic (ignoring, of course, fuel usage). They both get you somewhere, but the Bugatti does it much faster and with much better style.

I shoot high-ends because I could afford to fork out the money for them. I've NEVER payed more than $650 for a gun, and that was a very, very special gun. other than that, sub-$500 level, down around $200-400 is where it's at. I pay, at most, 3 times more than a Spyder does from the factory. Two times more than Solitaire payed for his '09 Pilot. It's not like I dump thousands into a single marker. I dump thousands into a bunch of markers. :D

Accuracy is affected by consistency and the quality of the machining. With a low-tolerance marker, God only knows where the air's going to hit the ball and how. With a high-end, that is very predictable, and thus, it is accurate. There is NO WAY your '09 Pilot will be as consistent with CO2 as one of my Angels with HPA. My Angels get +/-7fps over the chronograph.

BPS... lawl. The place I go to is NPPL and PSP/NXL depending on the field and the players. NPPL rules are uncapped semi and PSP/NXL are both the 13.33bps standard (they haven't changed that yet).


Also, Solitaire, I'd like to point out that I said "aluminum," and not "titanium." Titanium is a much more brittle metal, and not very useful in paintball markers' body designs. For rams in Ego's it seems to do fine, but that's the most I'd ever use that material for.

Solitare2point1
04-17-2009, 03:12 PM
@Red and slim. Good points from both of you.

@Red, about your angels comparison to my pilot. I understand what you're saying about the performance... my point was that if I make my marker as efficient as it can possibly be, getting a new reg, asa, bolt, barrel, board upgrade if and when they are available it will still be looked at as a trash gun because it's a spyder. So I guess I'm trying to get down to the reason of this logic.

To use your same comparison with cars as an example. If I looked at an 89 civic and a bugatti, yes I would know that the bugatti owner spent more money on the car. Now, if the 89 civic had a ton of motor work and ran 10s, people would still look at the bugatti as a better car... despite the fact that it performs better than the more expensive car. Some people would think it was stupid to spend all the money on the civic to get it to do what a bugatti can almost do stock, whereas the small minority might respect the civic owner because he did something from nothing. That minority doesn't seem to exist in mass in the paintball community.

pntballer5634
04-17-2009, 03:20 PM
forget all that crap. a good gun does these things
1. the ball goes where your sight is pointed every time ( or comes close) and does so at nearly the same speed.
2. it can make accurate shots at a longer range ( about 200 feet)
3. reasonably priced
4. can be customized
5. simple to use/ maintain
6. can shoot as with high or low ROF
7. is better than red's
8. has a sense of uniqueness
9. efficient
10. looks cool
i think that sums it up

bigred76
04-17-2009, 04:12 PM
The Bugatti will still be looked at better because no matter what you do to the Civic short of a rocket engine, it still won't compare. You must remember that in paintball, there are upgrades for every gun out there. For every $50 you put into your gun, I could easily put in $50 and make it better. The gap will never close between low-ends and high-ends so long as the user of the high-end isn't an idiot and uses his marker properly. Of course, you can upgrade your Spyder to be decent, but why bother when for $300 you can have a high-end? Hell, $200 gets you an Alias these days. There simply is no point anymore to upgrade your Spyder if you want a better gun unless you're blinded by the "customization" factor, which is available on every marker.

Pntballer5634, if your gun is better than one of mine, that's an accomplishment in and of itself. Also, real paintball markers don't have sights... you use your eyes.

slim and shady
04-17-2009, 09:03 PM
I used to be where you are solitare, but then I got into arguments with Red (I respect reds opinion alot) this helped me in alot of ways. He represents his side of i strongly and I do the same. If I dont get an aspect of whatever we are disscussing I just plain ask him. He explains it and then you understand. you dont just think about it and get mad because you can understand where the other is comming from. PM's are great its a private conversation disscussing what you think theres no flamming other people jumping in ect. So my advice to you is find somone you respect start throwing the ideas out there and get an understanding of why there position on the subject is where it is.

The only thing that I would say red about your first post is I wouldnt compair a marker using Co2 to a marker using HPA. even if there both spyders the HPA will always come out ahead.

bigred76
04-17-2009, 09:33 PM
Yup. I was just going off of his set-up, which included a 20oz CO2 tank. With HPA on the marker, he might hit +/-20fps consistently, but since it is spring actuated.... there is no guaranty.


Speaking of PM's, this a good enough reply to the last one you shot me? I've been condensing all the thoughts I've had presented into this thread, and some are just copied/pasted from the Word Doc I have going to reply with. I've got the last bit sent in a PM over to you now.

timbertiger20
04-17-2009, 10:43 PM
One that is reliable, and meets your needs expectations.

When I first started here with an imagine...........I literally dropped $1000.00 into it. But I found out BigRed's point very quickly! My $1000 Spyder could not compete with my ICD FS7 that cost me $700. Later I bought a $1000.00 marker after reading alot of reviews and gathering alot of information. What my FS-7 lacked was efficiency and that's what I really wanted. So as alot of the old timers know I picked up a MacDev Borg in '06. It was everything I ever had dreamed of...........high BPS (I typically play uncapped RT), 2000+ rounds per 68/45 and at the time it was extremely light. To this date the only thing I have been able to upgrade is the anno job:)

My suggestion to all new players is don't buy a marker if rentals are available. Go try out markers and see what really fits you! Don't drop a grand on your first marker..........go try markers out and watch the used market. You can typically get a great one year old marker for the same price as alot of mid end guns that will work great for you.

On the other hand..........if you just sold your Bugatti Veyron and want to get into paintball............I can hook you up with MD equipment!

police_brutality
04-19-2009, 07:07 PM
I believe (i said i) what a mq'ed cocker with a e2 and a good reg is perfect