View Full Version : help!
02-18-2009, 04:19 PM
ok so i just bought a bunch of parts like a new bolt, clamping feedneck, etc....but the gun wont shoot! it seems to me like there is no air going through the gun. i cock it, shoot it, and it doesnt recock. i took it apart and figured out that the hose and all that works fine...but the air wont go through the gun once it gets past the expansion chamber. everything inside looks normal but it doesnt shoot! i just got my air tank filled too so i know thats not the problem. any suggestions? thanks
02-18-2009, 04:42 PM
Interesting... Put a couple drops of good PB oil in the ASA and cock the marker before airing it up next time. How far in is the velocity adjuster? What kind of bolt? What kind of feedneck? Any other aftermarket parts?
02-18-2009, 05:21 PM
ill try that tomorrow. its an alamo city 2 o ring bolt, a core clamping feedneck, and i put some timmy detents in there. i dont exactly know all the part names...that would probably be more helpful! sorry!
o and the velocity adjuster is backed all the way out. thanks
02-18-2009, 05:28 PM
Try adjusting the velocity by turning the screw clockwise, thus increasing velocity.
02-18-2009, 05:33 PM
will do! thanks for the fast replies!
slim and shady
02-18-2009, 05:34 PM
Sometimes with some tanks if you turn them on to tight they wont let air through, try backing the tank off a turn. Also how did you come to the conclusion that the air made it as far as the expansion chamber? Im curious as this would help me understand where to start looking for the problem. If you have another marker throw the tank on there and shot to ensure that your tank is actually full! Let us go from there.
02-19-2009, 03:48 AM
i figured out that it only got as far as the expansion chamber because i disconnected the hose from the expansion chamber and trew my air tank on there. it worked just fine. i then took the first piece of the expansion chamber off, connected the hose to it, and it worked as well. so im just guessing that there is something wrong with the 2nd piece of the expansion chamber or the internals of the gun. just my guess though. and ill try putting my tank on another gun see if it works! thanks
slim and shady
02-19-2009, 08:17 AM
with your expansion chamber are all your orings in the right place could have you accidently put one in the wrong place?
02-19-2009, 09:04 AM
Shady... I think I mighta found an MR problem that interests me. :D
I'm gonna do some research for ya, I'll be back in here later today with a couple answers as to why the second stage of an expansion chamber is restricting yer flow.
EDIT: Ok, back now... hrm... it appears to me that there shouldn't be anything restricting the flow in that portion of the chamber, and I'm honestly confused as to why this is happening.
When you say first part of the expansion chamber, do you mean part #252, or part #253 (manual link for reference (http://www.spyder.tv/section/support/manuals/mr2.pdf))? Is there ANYTHING on the end of the hose that might interfere (teflon tape, washers, orings, JB Weld, mud, gunk, etc)? Is there ANYTHING on either section that would interfere? What about inside (whip out the flashlight and look real good)?
02-19-2009, 12:09 PM
part 252 is what im refereing to as the first part of the expansion chamber. i looked at both pieces and there doesnt seem to be anything out of the ordinary. i think the problem is located somewhere near like the valve body and what not. i could be wrong though. ill go put the tank on another gun and see what happens!
EDIT: i put my tank on an old sonix and it worked fine. so its not the tank. i think i figured out the problem though. when i take the shroud off, then take out Reservoir Adapter Plug (Part # 254) i can blow into the expansion chamber and air flows just fine. but when i put the plug back in, nothing. maybe its supposed to be like this because all the screws and screw holes line up. im not really sure!
02-19-2009, 01:17 PM
Ah, very interesting... It's supposed to be like that, because the valve is closed, and the chamber is temporarily pressurized. If you were to open the valve via pushing the striker forward or taking out the valve pin/cupseal, you would be able to hear the air coming out.
I'm on AIM right now if you want to go back and forth on this, I'm still formulating my thoughts.
slim and shady
02-19-2009, 05:40 PM
Not to interfear red ;) but I was wondering if he ment he had the chamber off of the gun when he blew through it. if it was not on the marker then he shoulf have been able to blow through it.
02-19-2009, 05:48 PM
Nope, what he meant is that he took off the plug and blew into the ASA and could hear the air pressure created by his lungs traveling through up to that point. When he reinstalled the plug, he could not hear any air flow anymore as the flow was impeded by the closed valve, as it should be.
slim and shady
02-19-2009, 06:06 PM
aaahhh ok did you guys figure it out?
02-19-2009, 06:20 PM
Nope... I don't know what the **** is wrong with his marker. It's not drag, lube, springs, air pressure, expansion chamber, trigger frame, valve, ASA, hose, or bolt issues. I prescribed him a spring kit in hopes that it might help a little bit.
slim and shady
02-19-2009, 08:09 PM
I had this exact same problem with a brand new MR2 a friend bought at a scenario I couldnt figure it out for the life of me took the entire gun appart. put it back together lubed it you name it. didnt work it was as if the gun was destined to go without air. It was bought at the scenario so luckly he just took it back. so to sum things up IWANT TO KNOW WHATS WRONG WITH THIS MARKER! I have never EVER bein stumped like that with a spyder, its like an AK there is no such thing as not working!
02-19-2009, 09:31 PM
I know, there's gotta be something wrong with one of the upgrades if it worked fine for him before. Bolt a bit too big? The feedneck screws were not protruding into the breech.
When he gets a spring kit he'll be able to put a light valve spring in and see if that gets it to fire. If that doesn't work... I'm rly running out of ideas of what it could possibly be.
EDIT: Doubtful, but it COULD be that the bolt/hammer are too light to open the valve.
slim and shady
02-19-2009, 09:44 PM
He said it shoots but wont recock, does it shoot air or does the it just hit the pin and stop?
EDIT: Im still not convinced that the air is making it through the expansion chamber to the valve. there is no way the hammer wouldnt be able to move it. Unless there is something seriously wrong like he got the wrong bolt and its binding hardcore bad. I dunno I think he should put it back to stock then put one upgrade on at a time and try it. At least that will narrow down to where the problem is. then we can go from there.
EDIT 2: this may be a dumb question but you are trying to dry fire the marker right? so you turned the eyes off right? so you cock it and pull the trigger what happens does the bolt move? what exactly happens?
02-19-2009, 10:03 PM
I asked him to revert the bolt back to stock, but he doesn't know where the stocker ran off to.
He was telling me that it burps a little bit... sounded to be like he was describing about the same burp an Autococker Pump has if you don't hold the handle all the way forward. The light valve spring SHOULD fix any issues with the valve not opening. I doubt it's the expansion chamber as both are clear and everything.
I'm so out of ideas I'm trying to think of everything it could possibly be...
Hudabomb, is the bolt tight in the upper tube? Like, has trouble moving? Compare it to your stock bolt (if/when you find it), are there any differences? Mainly looking at the distance between the pin and the opening on the bottom of the bolt for the air flow.
02-20-2009, 07:26 AM
uh oh! mr series has a differnt valve spring. anywho sounds like he has lack of flow to the striker which can be a problem for many of stock spyders.
well here is some advice from an OG regarding spyder burps
"What is wrong is for some reason the striker isn't getting enough air to cock the gun. When you hold the barrel it adds back pressure and helps cock the gun.
Firstly, try it with paint, it may not be a problem, it's not designed to dry fire.
If that doesn't work, start shaving off the pin to allow more air to enter the chamber, start off small then work your way up.
02-20-2009, 05:09 PM
Slim, i purchased the marker before the one with eyes came out, so, no eyes.
Bigred, the bolt is a bit tight. but its only the orings that are tight. i went to my local PB shop and they had just sold there last spyder spring kit and are going to order another one for me. it should get here sometime next week but ill keep looking for the stock bolt and see if thats the problem.
02-20-2009, 05:14 PM
no faith in my post? spring kit kind of does the same thing. by installing a heavier spring you will be opening the valve longer and then you have more air to recock the gun with.
i say save the money and follow the advice below. its not the bolt. the bolt is not a problem when it comes to recocking the gun.
slim and shady
02-20-2009, 05:23 PM
If the marker shot fine before why would the valve pin need to be sanded down now farret? with the ups he got shouldnt make a difference i think a spring kit is a great upgrade at anyrate. However I would still put the marker back to stock try it. If it works, add the bolt. Try it, if it works add the feedneck, so on so forth if at anytime it stops working when you add an up you just isolated the problem and know its something caused by that product. Then you have something to go on rather then everything , could be a problem.
02-21-2009, 07:56 AM
i think im gunna go with slims idea if i can ever find that damn bolt! no offense ferret but im not that experienced with paintball guns quite yet so before i modify parts i need to make sure that its not something else!
02-21-2009, 12:37 PM
good news and bad news! i found the stock bolt, so i reverted the gun to completely stock. BUT it still doesnt work! i dont know what could have changed but im still having the same problems!
02-21-2009, 02:01 PM
ok so let me get this right
you have a MR2? overall a stock MR2? it is HP meaning no regulator except the one on your tank at abouts 850psi?
so this gun should by all means cycle without a bolt in the gun. Doesn't matter if you had a ACS or ACP 1-3 orings, or even a aluminum bolt; the probablems associated with failing to re-cock (burpping) don't occur till you drop the pressure. Right now, you have all the air in the world to waste.
now normaly i would say just get a spring kit, but the problem is there is no valve spring kit made for the mr series so your kind out of luck. if you wish to fix the problem you have a few options,
1. check the striker oring, polish the stricker, polish the valve stem and pray that does it
2. needs more air either see prescribed method below, or put in a heavier main spring.
3. buy the NDZ valve (http://www.actionvillage.com/011-206-0025) stem for more flow combined any spring kit you may or may not need it.
4. Most expensive and complicated
try #1 if you haven't
then #2 or 3 i would suggest #2 and if you screw up the you can spent your money anyway
slim and shady
02-21-2009, 02:05 PM
this may be a dumb question but did you make sure that the striker buffer is behind the striker and not infront of it? I cant see why it would have worked fine and then now your not getting the air. If it did before you should have it still. look at your manual and make sure you have all parts where they are supposede to be
EDIT: Not trying to avoid what you said ferret, I just dont see why he shouldnt have air if it worked fine before something has to be out of place. If it did this from day one then I would be more along your avenue of thought, however it worked so there is no reason it shouldnt still be able to work, especialy since he put the parts back in to make it the same as when it worked. Unless something was put in the wrong place and if the striker buffer was infront of the striker it would cause this problem to.
02-21-2009, 02:12 PM
oh good thought, do what slim and shady says first make sure its assembled correctly. i forget that there was a time i would put stuff in the wrong place XP. i really hope that is the problem. i'm sure that will make his day because modding or buying stuff for your gun becuase its broken is never fun.
02-22-2009, 07:30 AM
alright guys...i figured it out...a while ago i had a similar problem where the sear wouldnt trip and somebody told me to put a nickle behind the thing inside the grip that trips it (sorry for lack of terminology) and that fixed it. i just looked and there was no nickle behind it! i feel like an idiot for not thinking of that! so i went and dry fired it with the stock bolt and it works just fine. no burps, fires every time i pull the trigger. i threw the new bolt in there and...you guessed it...nothing! it did the same thing. so now i know its the bolt. can we go from there? its an alamo city two oring bolt
slim and shady
02-22-2009, 09:27 AM
your sure you got the right bolt for the MR2/3? is it hard to move the bolt back and forth manually? use a battle swab and push it from either side without it being attached to the striker ect. is ith the orings that are tight or the derlin. Did you put a o ring grease in them to reduce friction?
02-22-2009, 10:20 AM
its the orings that are tight and i havent lubed it up yet (i dont have and lube) but ill try it as soon as i get some! i put the stock bolt in an shot 300-400 balls through it until i ran out of air. it shot just fine, a little inaccurate, but then again, 15 mph winds probably dont help! :)
02-22-2009, 11:32 AM
hooray! go to the shop or wallyworld and pick up some oil.
02-22-2009, 11:38 AM
i know right? will do as soon as i can! o and BTW is a spring kit still a good upgrade? i think it is but im just checkin!
02-22-2009, 12:01 PM
not really unless your doing more upgrades, read this article http://www.sundragonpps.com/paintball_mr_lp_conv.html
slim and shady
02-22-2009, 01:41 PM
IMO spring kit is always a good upgrade, and I would definatly get one. make sure you dont oil the hell out of the bolt as some people say it could swell the derlin and cause it to expand a little. so put a drop on each ring and a few in the asa, take your hopper and barrel off and dry fire it a few times.
02-22-2009, 05:08 PM
*dusts shouldah off* Told ya it was the bolt. :butwiggle:
He already said the orings were tight, so what I'd do is get a set of smaller orings and try it again or lube those orings nice 'n good. :)
Personally, I feel that a spring kit is a nice upgrade no matter, it'll allow you to fine tune your velocity settings.
02-22-2009, 06:14 PM
okey dokey guys think im gunna pick up that spring kit on tuesday and what orings should i use?
slim and shady
02-22-2009, 08:05 PM
just try to lub the ones that come with the bolt the idea is its supposed to reduce the blowback if you put tp small of rings on it will defeat the perpose entirly. so if you lub them and it doesnt work get the next smallest size. I would also contact ACP and see what they think about the problem maby they can help as well or send you a new bolt.
02-23-2009, 05:52 PM
k im gunna pick up some lube and the spring kit tomorrow! ill get my air tank filled and try it out. well see what happens!
02-23-2009, 05:57 PM
very good, a clean gun is a happy gun!
02-24-2009, 02:50 PM