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slim and shady
01-31-2009, 11:32 AM
Well I thought that I would see what everyones opinion is about the lack of respect between speedball and woods/scenario. Why are there so many people that not only dissrespect the other form of paintball but outright hate it? This is not a thread to say why speedball is better or why woodsball is better. But rather to gather your opinions of why there is such a loathing for eachothers preferd method to play the same sport, paintball.

As always, dont flame, and respect eachother. and keep things undercontrole. Mods if you feel this thread is just going to get out of controle feel free to close.


I am very heavy into woodsball and even moreso into milsim/scenario. Constantly there is the fight with the other form of paintball speedball. For me I have no desire to play this form of paintball. However I have played with speedballers in scenario. You have your good and your bad as with any sport. But overall you just have to respect eachothers ability. We have played with speedballers that are just a blast on the scenario feild and really good at at it. But where did this rivelry (SP) come from?

bigred76
01-31-2009, 02:07 PM
Heh, I like threads like this... :D Here's another starter post for you guys:

I simply dislike that the general player of woodsball is ignorant. They don't know where the line ends between a marker and a paperweight, and yet still go out with their paperweights to play. There is a VERY BIG line between a marker that's useful and when it simply is too much. For instance, a scope/sight? What the ****, it's an inaccurate firearm. It's a round, changing mass (paint moves inside the balls, ya know) shot through a smooth bore barrel. You can ANTICIPATE where it will fire, but there are no guarantees. That is why I bring my good markers when I go to play woodsball. Then I get pushed around and **** because my gun and gear is red/black. ZOMG, so you can see me??? :eek: I thought that was the point of the game, to find and eliminate your ****in' opponent, not to be some ***** that looks like the bush I pissed on 10min ago. Why do they always ***** about me making their job of finding me so easy??? ****ing idiots, I tell you.

I also don't like the idea of getting shot if I go to my backyard to test shoot my marker if I go out at the wrong time (i.e., when a police officer is walking by). They strive for some stupid reason to make their markers look as realistic as possible. Why is that? I have come to the conclusion that woodsballers are just morons. They cannot comprehend that a realistic looking marker does not by any means make it better than any one of my markers.

They simply do not understand the basics and fundamentals of modern paintball, and thus I can not and will not respect them. If I see a change, then my opinion will change.... but until they do... ;)

oldironmudder
01-31-2009, 02:42 PM
The lack of respect, as you say, between woodsball & speedball, to me is kinda like high school. I cant say much on how everyones HS is compared to the 3 I attened & 2 others I have been around. But my Freshman year, I was in Memphis. You had therichy prepy jerks, the football team, the stoners, the goths & so on. Each group pretty much stayed to their selfs not caring about any of the other one. Thats the vibe I feel from paintball.

My 10-11 & then 12 grade years were in a totally differant world compared to Memphis. They were mostly black schools were as Memphis was almost completely white. (Just to clear this up now, I dont care what color you are, its how a person acts that I judge them.) But you still had the different groups of people but not just like Memphis. Those groups didnt care a whole lot about each other.

Look at paintball, the speedball scene is Ego this, PM/DM that, gotta have 30bps & look good doing it. Woodsball is more laid back. You may have spent a decent amount of money on a marker but you still say 300fps is 300fps.

Personally me, I could care less as to what type I play. But if I really have a choice of this or that, I rather play a form of speedball cause it moves fast & has a different edgey rush than woodsball does to me.


Ok, I went outside & forgot what else I was gonna say.

xsvly-fat
01-31-2009, 03:15 PM
Heh, I like threads like this... :D Here's another starter post for you guys:

I simply dislike that the general player of woodsball is ignorant. They don't know where the line ends between a marker and a paperweight, and yet still go out with their paperweights to play. There is a VERY BIG line between a marker that's useful and when it simply is too much. For instance, a scope/sight? What the ****, it's an inaccurate firearm. It's a round, changing mass (paint moves inside the balls, ya know) shot through a smooth bore barrel. You can ANTICIPATE where it will fire, but there are no guarantees. That is why I bring my good markers when I go to play woodsball. Then I get pushed around and **** because my gun and gear is red/black. ZOMG, so you can see me??? :eek: I thought that was the point of the game, to find and eliminate your ****in' opponent, not to be some ***** that looks like the bush I pissed on 10min ago. Why do they always ***** about me making their job of finding me so easy??? ****ing idiots, I tell you.

I also don't like the idea of getting shot if I go to my backyard to test shoot my marker if I go out at the wrong time (i.e., when a police officer is walking by). They strive for some stupid reason to make their markers look as realistic as possible. Why is that? I have come to the conclusion that woodsballers are just morons. They cannot comprehend that a realistic looking marker does not by any means make it better than any one of my markers.

They simply do not understand the basics and fundamentals of modern paintball, and thus I can not and will not respect them. If I see a change, then my opinion will change.... but until they do... ;)

I agree 100%, one thing that I really can't stand about most woodsballers is how after just about every game they say that they got this many guys out when you were the one doing most of the work and they were 50 feet behind you telling you to move up while they "snipe" people. They also bug me cause most of them try to act all big and make it look like they know so much about paintball and you don't know crap about it.

TheDarkShadow
01-31-2009, 03:53 PM
I simply dislike that the general player of woodsball is ignorant.

At first that statement really pissed me off. But then I thought, hmm, My friends are woodsballers (as am I), but they don't know **** about anything with paintball, and are ignorant at times, and think gun mantainance is unnecessary and the longer the barrel the better. BUT, at the same time I would have to disagree with that statement that in general they are ignorant, there are ignorant people in woodsball but, I wouldnt say in general that the woodsballer is ignorant.

bigred76
01-31-2009, 04:06 PM
That's why I said "the general player..." ;) Take it as you will, I stand by my words. :)

oldironmudder
01-31-2009, 04:17 PM
Dont start fighting over which style is better.

Each person is different & has their prefered way to play. I went through that whole phase of long barrels & sniping & being a bush. I grew out of it then into speedball style only but with nearly ten years in the sport, I just want to play. I dont rag on someone about their gear or marker. If the Milsim is the new fad, let it be. It will be like every other fad that has come & gone. Maybe it will bring in a new flavor of player, which I think it has.

You have to keep an open mind about it cause if some kid dont know jack about his marker thinks he does & you burn him into the ground with info you might run him completely away from playing which isnt good.


Here i go rambling about something that I have forgot about what I was saying....

slim and shady
01-31-2009, 04:23 PM
For the most part I find this shocking, deffinatly not the comments i would have expected. I mean with all the overshooting (mostly on little kids that are trying to learn the game and have no clue what they are doing) agg BS, contract killer ect. I wouldnt have thought that woodsballers would have been considered ignorant. So now if a woodsballer is ignorant what is a speedballer? Of corse thats a question that I dont want people to answear the point of this thread was not intended to dictate who has a worse additude ect. I find it hard to beleive that all this through the years would be caused because a woodsballer is ignorant. has to be more to it then that.

Im hoping vike responds to this thread im very interested to here his stance on this. so I will wait :D

bigred76
01-31-2009, 04:33 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong, there is a vast majority of dumb speedballers as well. "What's this button do?" "Stop using full auto!!!" "I'm aggsauce, *****h!" I hear it all.

The cause is simple to me, and I believe it to be truth until otherwise proven. This cause is the stem of all of woodsball's fallacies and flaws as I see them.

And the whole don't compare woodsball/speedball thing will not work as you need something to base assumptions and conclusions on, and you were the first to point out that speedsballers need to have respect for woodsballers. My respect is not easily given, and you are one who hath earned it, Shady. Don't take what I say the wrong way.

slim and shady
01-31-2009, 04:45 PM
I dont take your respect for granted Red, infact i was gonna label this thread "A trap for Red" however I thought I title like that would extend into the bashing game of each side. Furthermore I respect your opinion as much as anyone elses. You tell it like you think it is and like me you are very opinionated about the sport you love.

So I egerly await some more of your responces!

vikingshadow
01-31-2009, 04:59 PM
Im hoping vike responds to this thread im very interested to here his stance on this. so I will wait :D

Hahaha! I was in the middle of posting when you and Tim both responded - I don't want to delete any of this though so here goes.

[clears throat] Time for a old style Vike post!

Ok, this is a rant on this subject. I've seen a lot in the past several years that make me wonder there's even paintball around to play anymore. The newest generation of players (back to about 5 years ago) are the rudest, most ignorant, unsportsmanlike players I've seen in ANY sport in my entire life. Does it really hurt that much to tell another team "Good job" or "That was a good game" before and after a game? And doing it NOT for a sportsmanship trophy, but because it's the right thing to do?

It used to be that if another team was of lesser skill, you might play them, but you'd probably take it a little easy on them and then show them what they did and how they could fix it. Nowadays, this rarely happens. Its all "kill, murder, and raping noobs" BS. And when you consider a LOT of these trash talkers are fat, slow, sloppy, with ugly skills and couldn't make a high school team even if the team was a just show up and play team - well, that makes us all look bad, doesn't it? Trash talk is one thing, but these guys take it too far most of the time. I blame the internet by allowing most of them to hide behind their keyboards, and constant repetition of the garbage spewing from their minds is finally spewing from their mouths and attitudes.

Why else would most people QUIT the sport they love the most?

/rant

Ok, as to the question of intelligence in the woods. Meh, I've seen PLENTY of ignorant speedball players in my time. I think the ignorance is pretty equal on both sides of the paintball fence. (Posted prior to Tim's last post - so don't worry about this part...)

I like them both for different reasons. I like the rush, excitement, and the speed involved in speedball, and the methodical, tactical maneuverability of woodsball. They both have their good points, and they both have their bad points. I personally prefer using a pump in the woods, but I also wear my bright colored jerseys and have played with bright and shiny guns out there. I also really enjoy playing with my pumps on the speedball course as well.

I do really dislike the attitudes the "military" type guys (not actual military guys, but those that turn the whole thing into a giant army thing) who walk around with their chests puffed out talking about "kills" and such. When they came around our field, I really had to hold myself back from just lighting the crap out of them out there. I don't care they have a thousand bucks in camo and tippman gear on their bodies, so don't make it seem like it's the most important thing - and DON'T carve notches in your gun (figuratively, of course) because it's all for fun.

I do really dislike the holier than thou attitudes of the tournament speedball player (or wannabe) thinking they're the best thing that walk the earth. ESPECIALLY those punks that actually finish a rookie tournament somewhere above the middle of the pack for the first time. These guys actually think they're the only kids to ever have accomplished this feat. It takes all I have to keep from going out on the speedball field and showing them what I think about their "skills". It's a team sport and people need to realize that, and get back to what makes it "sport".

Then there's the "experienced" tournament players who smack talk everyone. :rolleyes: Nuff said.

Basically, what I'm generalizing is that paintball players tend to be idiots in general. We are self destructing and tearing apart the game we love by ignorant and childish behavior, for the most part. It's ok that we act that way, but what we do is throw it out there for the world to see when we should do what other sports do and hide it from the spectators eyes.

Basically, woodsball/speedball - I love them both. But grow up, learn some sportsmanship, and remember why you started playing in the first place for Christ's sake!

slim and shady
01-31-2009, 05:06 PM
So you think then vike the problem between the two groups is more the younger players with bad additudes towards fellow players?

vikingshadow
01-31-2009, 05:17 PM
Not necessarily. I think they are our greatest asset, but they are getting their attitudes FROM the more experienced players and because they don't know any better, and the number of more experienced people dropping out of the game that had the right attitude, this is causing the problem.

Let's face it. The point of this game is to SHOOT someone. Not the most friendly thing in the world, right? So, take that stigma, throw in some attitude from some idiots, mix it up on some of the forums around the net and Voila! You have a horrible tasting **** pie we call a "sport". And it's not appealing to anyone. Then, to make it worse, we divide this pie between the different versions of the game. Woodsball, speedball, rec ball, scenario, etc. and everyone is wanting the largest piece. THEN, throw all the industries in there that cater to the different versions, and the fact that they actually egg on this dissention, well - dessert isn't something that I really want for supper, you know?

In other sports, we don't look down on the lower levels. Peewee football, little league baseball, junior high sports, etc. But, here in this sport, we drag everyone down because they aren't playing "nationally." What? This is ridiculous!

I just feel we need to get back to basics. Those being sportsmanship, attitude, and helpfulness.

slim and shady
01-31-2009, 05:21 PM
That was very well put great answear and I think it opened my eyes to veiw the larger picture great post Vike!

Now I will wait for DF's responce :D

bigred76
01-31-2009, 06:26 PM
Bryce... remembered my name??? The world is about to end!!! :eek:

As I'm sick and coughing up... stuff... every 5min I can't create a long post like Vike, but I will say this: your points are very "right-on" and I get what your saying. I will pick on the woodsballers more than the speedsballers due to the "military" (I couldn't come up with a word for it, either) aspect that they seem to think is so wonderful. That is part of what I meant of people being ignorant. To me ignorance is not bliss, it is damning. I loathe every bit of it, and work very hard while I'm at the field to hold my red-hot temper in check when an asshat comes by.

*sits down and waits for Sasquatch*

slim and shady
01-31-2009, 06:34 PM
What exactly about the "military" aspect gets you so bad? I mean you voiced how wrong it was for people to make a deal about you were speedball colors ect instead of dressing like a "bush" hows that any different then you thinking that dressing like a bush is inapropriate? I fail to see how "military" suplies ignorence to the sport explain to me Red!

bigred76
01-31-2009, 06:42 PM
Ugh... and people say I'm an ass... I refreshed to see what Bryce replied and if Sascha replied yet, and I see me being asked a question... one last post then I'm downing the bottle of NyQuil. :(

Essentially, my train of thought is like this: you only take onto the field what you need. If that's a pack full of paint, fine. If that's a marker, fine. But don't take out onto the field flashlights, knives, laser pointers (which ARE illegal in Cali to use like most woodsballers do around here, btw), scopes, remote lines, vests, etc etc etc. You only need to take the basics: a mask, a marker, a hopper, and a tank. All that extraneous bull crap makes the marker 10lbs heavier than it needs to be, and to top it off: 9/10 mil-sim markers are crap. They're mostly Tippmann based. The 1/10 that aren't crap are the Mag and the MTac (based off the Marq). The SP8's even crap. Why waste money like a fool for all this... crap???? It's IDIOCY, I say. They're too foolish to understand how paintball works.

slim and shady
01-31-2009, 06:49 PM
Well equiptment like a vest is used to hold the paint that you need on the feild, and the tank the remote is used so your "paperweight" is a little lighter ;) see games may last a wial before you head back to respawn so the vest is essencial to carry the paint more comfy! as for the knives laser pointers and flashlights I cant see anyone using those because there not effective at all unless of corse your playing at night that would essencialy be different :D and yes im tryin to get your goat cuz your sick! :D

vikingshadow
01-31-2009, 06:58 PM
I played a game with a guy who that his laser sight was the most important part of his gun, I kid you not. We were actually a little nervous because he was pointing it into people's goggles - we thought maybe we'd be blinded!

Fortunately, he was just as crappy a player as his ideas were. He couldn't find us most of the time, and he liked to "hide" in places that didn't really hide him, if you know what I mean. He never came back after that one day....

bigred76
01-31-2009, 07:05 PM
Well equiptment like a vest is used to hold the paint that you need on the feild, and the tank the remote is used so your "paperweight" is a little lighter ;) see games may last a wial before you head back to respawn so the vest is essencial to carry the paint more comfy!
My Redz 4.4 pack holds so much paint it's unreal. Why do you need more? :confused:

yes im tryin to get your goat cuz your sick! :D

Alberta is sounding closer and closer as I'm looking up driving directions. :dodgy:

Exactly my point, Vike. Here in Cali it's a felony to ATTEMPT to point a laser pointer in a threatening fashion. Using one meant for a firearm is even worse.

slim and shady
01-31-2009, 07:10 PM
If I use my Q-loader I only got 100rnds each so they take up alot of room if I want o use the launcher I need a little more for the pods of grenades. Sometimes we are out there for 2+ hours so you carry what you can so you dont have to go back. Also just personaly dont care for hip-packs I find them really uncomfy. As for directions I'll PM you ;)

EDIT: about the laser pointers I beleive alot of that falls on the corse owners shoulders they shouldnt be used on a feild it is illegal. However players should be smart enough to not bring them in the first place, or at least not use it.

especiialypsycho
01-31-2009, 07:17 PM
Well this is an interesting debate, Personally I think the MilSIm Is tolerable to an extent and that both Woodsballers and Speedballers deserve equal respect, because as we all know Paint is all about PERSONAL PREFERANCE. If you want to sit around looking like a bush with 10 lb's of crap on you, you should be able to do so without someone *****ing in your ear baout it. IF you want to run around in bright colors with markers capeable of high ROF's, Then so be it, just treat others how you want to be treated. Some people jsut prefer to play a different way, but that doesnt mean you should hate on them.

bigred76
01-31-2009, 07:22 PM
I can tell what kind of marker you prefer from that post. ;) Nice try at being unbiased, but you're a few years off yet. :) Also, look at the quote in your signature... and think about it real hard. ;)

Google Maps is ftw, Slim... it's only a 2k mile drive. :D

especiialypsycho
01-31-2009, 07:23 PM
I speller preference wrong, and what kind marker do i like TIM :P

Muddytaco
01-31-2009, 08:39 PM
Here is the quick easier answer......

Speedballers that disrespect woodballers and woodballers that disrespect speedballers don't offer any respect in the first place.

I could careless what you like b/c I like playing both ways....however if your going to disrespect me b/c of my gun or what I play I will make it my mission that day to light your ass as much as possible. If you run your mouth about how good you are in the pits the samething is likely to happen.

irishwarrior
02-01-2009, 12:42 AM
Ugh... and people say I'm an ass... I refreshed to see what Bryce replied and if Sascha replied yet, and I see me being asked a question... one last post then I'm downing the bottle of NyQuil. :(

Essentially, my train of thought is like this: you only take onto the field what you need. If that's a pack full of paint, fine. If that's a marker, fine. But don't take out onto the field flashlights, knives, laser pointers (which ARE illegal in Cali to use like most woodsballers do around here, btw), scopes, remote lines, vests, etc etc etc. You only need to take the basics: a mask, a marker, a hopper, and a tank. All that extraneous bull crap makes the marker 10lbs heavier than it needs to be, and to top it off: 9/10 mil-sim markers are crap. They're mostly Tippmann based. The 1/10 that aren't crap are the Mag and the MTac (based off the Marq). The SP8's even crap. Why waste money like a fool for all this... crap???? It's IDIOCY, I say. They're too foolish to understand how paintball works.

Well Tim, I'm one of those "idiots" with the scope, long barrel, etc...and I know perfectly well that it's unnecessary and probably will cut in performance some. But I worked hard on my marker (mostly with a dremel:D) and I want it to be a real headturner. Now granted, I never would use a laser pointer, that's just dangerous. And I believe that I have a pretty clear understanding of how woodsball works, but I'm still lost when it comes to speedball:confused:

DRAGON
02-01-2009, 01:25 AM
.......... but I'm still lost when it comes to speedball:confused:

It's where 3-5 guys per side play the same game on the same small symmetrical layout over and over till they finally run quickly out of paint or get tired and go home **yawn** - :smirk:

Don't mean any disrespect by that but it's just the way I look at it. Guess I just get bored easily and need variety not repetitiousness -

bigred76
02-01-2009, 03:14 AM
And that's why you don't advance, Drago. You still play the same field after all these years, don't you? In speedball, it is not about repetitiveness, that is a common misconception. What you aim to do in the first match is scope out the angles you checked out when you walked the field. If you initial plan works, cool, that's great. Then it's time to come up to another one. There is only a limited number of possibilities of specific players hitting specific bunkers in speedsball vs the near infinite amount in woodsball, true, but given that the mathematical calculations are so large as to the probability that you will be in EXACTLY the same place in EXACTLY the same condition with the opponent doing EXACTLY what they did the last time... come on, Drago. ;)


Irish, hit up Chris sometime and he'll show you how it's done on a speedball field.

Splitter
02-01-2009, 10:25 AM
Cool thread, lots of valid opinions, but I've noticed that as a woodsballer, if i show up to play speedball (yes, in my camo) people will give me funny looks, until I start doing good. Same thing with the speedball guys that play woodsball every once in a while (in their bright colored jersey) We give them a hard time for a little bit, but if they do good, every one gives them props.

And the only Woodsballer's who are ignorant about anything are the kids just starting out, it's kind of unfair to glaze over all of us as just wanting to camp in a bush with a 20 in. barrel waiting for someone to step on us. The crew I play with is not like that at all. Being stealthy is the name of the game, but its' only fun when your moving in a steady, but quiet pace, and your team is working as a unit, covering each others backs.

Oh and reasons for a vest:
hip packs make you a huge target, so some get vests to put a couple guppies in the front. (Making yourself a smaller target gives you more trees to use as cover, and therefore more options) I also put my squeegie in a pocket (lets face it, I use an old spyder, it will break a ball every once in a while), and my goggle spray and little towel in case someone unloads 100 rounds into the thorn bush Im staring through. (Happens atleast once a game lol)

ferret15
02-01-2009, 10:47 AM
[QUOTE=bigred76;230594]Ugh... and people say I'm an ass... I refreshed to see what Bryce replied and if Sascha replied yet, and I see me being asked a question... one last post then I'm downing the bottle of NyQuil. :(

[\QUOTE]

hmm. i haven't seen around in a few days now and your not the first to ask, I wonder whats up?

anywho, i play woodsball with my vs2. and for the more the most part its definatly the attitude of a player. When somebody forgets that the reason they came out to have some fun with friends thats where you get your ignorant attitudes. Innexpericed players seem to have the biggest problems just because they need to be shown the ropes before they are nice to have around.

as far as woodsball/speedball gun arguement-
I agree with tim. performance first i'd rather know i'm don't have to worry about paint breaking and the fact it works with out worry of being broken
but hey whatever floats your boat if it makes you feel better to look through a scope or have a big gun. thats fine i'll use mine.

then there is the whole arguement about style of play. i liked the way i saw it put by OneUp from pbnation. "we call that playing paintball" in reference to how good paintballers play. you can label whatever you do but in the end your either a good paintballer or a bad paintballer. Its simple enough that it makes sense to me. "If you decided to specialize you breed in weekness." the kid that hides in the bush may or maynot get lucky but he better beable to do a hell of a lot more that that because when **** hits the fan he has to adapt to that situation now. i would make a speed ball arguement but i believe that sandbagging is frowned upon iirc for the same reason people make fun of the kid in a bush

LostCause
02-01-2009, 12:22 PM
um...I just play w/e has the most ppl.....IDC and I like both and Love paintball...doesnt really matter what I play :P lol....

Just my .2cents

DRAGON
02-01-2009, 12:38 PM
.............the near infinite amount in woodsball, true, but given that the mathematical calculations are so large as to the probability that you will be in EXACTLY the same place in EXACTLY the same condition with the opponent doing EXACTLY what they did the last time... come on, Drago. ;) .......

Appears you haven't seen the immense population of fields in Florida eh? Don't need to play the same field all the time. Last place I played was Wayne's World in Ocala which is just a phenominal field. AMOF I'm trying a new field in Panama City this month. This is the synopsis of fields at the place I frequent here:

The various courses we have available for playing are;

2 Hyperball fields

2 'Sup Air ball fields 1 Chronic (from '05 World Cup) and 1 Empire (from '05 Philly) tubeless on grass

1 X-Ball field on grass

A trailer park scenario course with auto's, R.V.'s, (2) 2-story forts, 3 mobile home trailers, two houses and more

1 Graveyard speedball course

1 Western ghost town course with multiple buildings, and a mine with an underground tunnel connecting two structures, and multiple vehicles

1 all natural wooded field with an unbelievable 3 story castle

1 Vietnam Village with 4 in-the-ground forts, huts, sandbag bunkers, outpost building, trenches and a 15’ two-story tower

1 two-story log cabin

and various scenario orientated fields and courses with factories, airport strips, fuel depots, control towers, shrines, two story temples, trenches, midevil fort and more.

They run speedball/hyper and woods at the same time all day so you can randomly jump into either while you're there. In Satire: Mathemagical calculations? Ya, it does get a little mundane there playing the same ol fields all the time - :D

In essence what I was really getting at in my last post is, in speedball you are very limited in controlling the moves and tactics you use in the same small restricted symmetrical layout open area over and over -

In a woods scenario you have an infinite choice of all and provides you with an infinite array of natural asymmetrical cover which gives you an infinite choice of moves and tactics. Only a beginner is in EXACTLY the same place in EXACTLY the same condition using EXACTLY the same tactics with the beginner opponent doing EXACTLY what they did the last time with all these resources at hand due to inexperience. An experienced player will grasp and use that to his advantage. Unpredictability is GOD on the playing field - ;)

slim and shady
02-01-2009, 01:03 PM
That Dragon almost sums up why I love scenario. Your on a large playing feild with alot of opponents its impossible to keep trac of everyone and you never see where the oposing team starts. Wial speedball you know exactly how many people are in the game, there confined to a small space where you see eachother right off the start. To me that takes alot of the game away. In scenario you cant take an inch of ground for granted you never know if there is someone in that bush with a 20 inch barrel attached to his paperweight! I like the idea of the unknown and I think thats why I prefure scenario and woodsball. but again this thread isnt about what is better. is there anyother points of veiw why there is so much termoil between the groups? and where is DF im still waiting?

EDIT: And what about you Deano177 you play both sides why do you think there is so much hate?

vikingshadow
02-01-2009, 03:05 PM
Oh the other hand, those very reasons are what makes Speedball so challenging. Most of the time you know where the other team is, so it's more of a visual chess match. Boring? Not if you're playing with people of comparable skill to your own! This is why I love speedball tournaments. It may seem the same, but every game is different.

Sure, it's a rectangular field that has a limited number of places to hide, most of the time you know where everyone is, but the difficulty in getting THAT one player in THAT one bunker is sometimes frustrating and more difficult than spraying a loader of balls into a bush hoping one or two get through the tiny twigs and get a hit. And if you're the one player that makes it to the god bunker? Wow - that's a HUGE rush!

Now, I've played woodsball games that were so much fun I never wanted them to quit. And, when you play woods, at least in my experience, you do get your monies worth with the length of the games. I've been where 4 games last nearly 4 hours and it's constant playing. But then, I've also had days where I played nothing but speedball and it was game after game after game.

The hatred? IMO, totally Ignorance on behalf of some short sighted players, and as I posted before inability to understand that some people just want to do something different. Attitude plays big into that. Instead of "Hey, whatever floats your boat" from when I was a kid, now its "You do that? Ur a stoopid n0ob, dood! Imma rape yer ass cuz Imma muppet mower..."

bigred76
02-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Drago, your tail is so easy to yank. :D

Thanks for my new sig, Vike. :)

Come to think about it, where is Sascha? I haven't seen him since the 27th.

DRAGON
02-01-2009, 04:36 PM
Heh, I like threads like this... :D Here's another starter post for you guys:

I simply dislike that the general player of woodsball is ignorant. They don't know where the line ends between a marker and a paperweight, and yet still go out with their paperweights to play. There is a VERY BIG line between a marker that's useful and when it simply is too much. For instance, a scope/sight? What the ****, it's an inaccurate firearm. It's a round, changing mass (paint moves inside the balls, ya know) shot through a smooth bore barrel. You can ANTICIPATE where it will fire, but there are no guarantees. That is why I bring my good markers when I go to play woodsball. Then I get pushed around and **** because my gun and gear is red/black. ZOMG, so you can see me??? :eek: I thought that was the point of the game, to find and eliminate your ****in' opponent, not to be some ***** that looks like the bush I pissed on 10min ago. Why do they always ***** about me making their job of finding me so easy??? ****ing idiots, I tell you.

I also don't like the idea of getting shot if I go to my backyard to test shoot my marker if I go out at the wrong time (i.e., when a police officer is walking by). They strive for some stupid reason to make their markers look as realistic as possible. Why is that? I have come to the conclusion that woodsballers are just morons. They cannot comprehend that a realistic looking marker does not by any means make it better than any one of my markers.

They simply do not understand the basics and fundamentals of modern paintball, and thus I can not and will not respect them. If I see a change, then my opinion will change.... but until they do... ;)

^^^^ tick tick tick tick tick tick .....BOOM! ^^^^

Drago, your tail is so easy to yank. :D......

Look who's tockin? -

Splitter
02-02-2009, 07:11 AM
you never know if there is someone in that bush with a 20 inch barrel attached to his paperweight! I like the idea of the unknown and I think thats why I prefure scenario and woodsball.

You ain't lyin man, I played last Friday, and was army crawling from tree to tree, just taking my time, being real quiet, and suddenly I noticed about 10 feet to the left of me was a nice juicy back to shoot : ) They guy couldnt believe i snuck up on him like that, but it happens.

I play the same way in speedball, I've actually belly crawled the length of the field behind the snake once. Got some juicy back shots in that game as well : )

Greenfield
02-02-2009, 07:46 AM
I also don't understand why there's no respect both ways. I personally started out playing woodsball with a stingray 2 thinking it was $150 well spent, and that speedball was simply who could shoot more balls per second.

Now that I actually play speedball, it's still fun every now and then to go out and play woodsball. I personally don't like the look of some of the markers that are "milsim" but i'm sure lots of woodsballers don't like my DM8. :D

The 1 thing I don't like is that quite a few guys at our field are extremely "agg" and are more concerned about looking cool then actually playing ball. That's definitely 1 thing that bugs me about speedballers.

I could care less what type of paintball someone is playing.. as long as they're playing.

ferret15
02-02-2009, 08:22 AM
The 1 thing I don't like is that quite a few guys at our field are extremely "agg" and are more concerned about looking cool then actually playing ball. That's definitely 1 thing that bugs me about speedballers.


thats anonther thing that is a 2 way streak

xsvly-fat
02-02-2009, 01:06 PM
The 1 thing I don't like is that quite a few guys at our field are extremely "agg" and are more concerned about looking cool then actually playing ball. That's definitely 1 thing that bugs me about speedballers.

Yeah I know what you mean by that, I can't stand it especially when it's a ten year old who has his parents buy all of his stuff.

spyderfan4271
02-02-2009, 04:41 PM
Both sides can seem so extreme to the other. I have a tippmann but I don't have a scope, flashlight, tripod, lazer site or bottle opener on it. I also have a ego and have intention of shooting 3/4 of a case in one game. For years now the industry has been obsessed with how fast can we make a marker shoot. Rate of fire has been are equivalent to the home run. While woodsball has been overlooked by most of the manufacturers. Woodsball should feel disrespected, it has been. The sad thing is a few bad apples can give speedball a bad reputation. If you overshoot a new person and make there first experience a negative one they are not going to come back, thus killing future growth of your sport. I don't consider myself a speedball or woodsball player I just play paintball.

slim and shady
02-02-2009, 06:15 PM
Both sides can seem so extreme to the other. I have a tippmann but I don't have a scope, flashlight, tripod, lazer site or bottle opener on it. I also have a ego and have intention of shooting 3/4 of a case in one game. For years now the industry has been obsessed with how fast can we make a marker shoot. Rate of fire has been are equivalent to the home run. While woodsball has been overlooked by most of the manufacturers. Woodsball should feel disrespected, it has been. The sad thing is a few bad apples can give speedball a bad reputation. If you overshoot a new person and make there first experience a negative one they are not going to come back, thus killing future growth of your sport. I don't consider myself a speedball or woodsball player I just play paintball.

What good is a tippy without a bottle opener on it? ;)

bigred76
02-02-2009, 07:38 PM
Trick post: Ego's are the ones with bottle openers. ;)

Now, while I do not condone overshooting, I will shoot you until you are out. That means that if you keep wiping your hopper like a noob because "gun hits don't count"... I'm going to keep shooting you. It's a give and take thing.

xsvly-fat
02-02-2009, 07:49 PM
Trick post: Ego's are the ones with bottle openers. ;)

Now, while I do not condone overshooting, I will shoot you until you are out. That means that if you keep wiping your hopper like a noob because "gun hits don't count"... I'm going to keep shooting you. It's a give and take thing.

Were you talking about the bottle opener frame?

And I agree with you on the shooting thing, I usually don't stop shooting till i see a ball break (or if they call out) cause then you know for sure they're out.

bigred76
02-02-2009, 07:54 PM
Seeing a ball break doesn't mean they're out. It just means a ball broke. Most woodsball players here don't understand that a hit on the gun still counts. I musta hit this kid's hopper 30 times before a ref finally got off his ass and pulled the little *** out. After the game, when I told him that a hopper hit counted, he told me to mind my own business and that he wasn't hit on the hopper at all that game. :shrug: You just can't win an argument with fools.

Griff
02-02-2009, 09:30 PM
The ones I love are those that call hit but continue to pull the trigger. I got to the point that if there gun is pointed at me they are fair game. JUST POINT THE MARKER UP OR DOWN AND GET THE BARRELL BAG ON! If your hitt.
Most Problems I have had come from teenage kids. They do get better as they gett older. (I know it took time for me to grow up.)

the_fen
02-03-2009, 08:56 AM
here's how we play, woodsball, you get two hits to limbs, hands and feet, one hit to the head or torso your dead. the gun never counts! it keeps the game going and we're all honest. and if we get hit, it counts reguardless if it breaks or not. becuz if it was real guns, bullets dont bounce off!!!! we never play at places with big ballons to hide behind and speed ball, its all about rambo style baby! to us speed ball is all about shooting tons of ball until u hit someone. no thanks.

if you need 12 balls a second to be good, you got no game. if someone new joins us with a gun like that, he usally one of the 1st to be shot up. lol. i have a gun that can do 12 a sec but i keep it on semi auto.

Splitter
02-03-2009, 09:35 AM
here's how we play, woodsball, you get two hits to limbs, hands and feet, one hit to the head or torso your dead. the gun never counts! it keeps the game going and we're all honest.

Yeah, I can see that being abused a little, we do no gun hits sometimes because we don't have refs and you don't always know when your gun has been hit. You ALWAYS know if your body had been hit though, so we keep it simple, if you feel one hit, call yourself out. Or be prepared to feel ten more if you don't call yourself out : )

DFSniper
02-03-2009, 09:39 AM
if i see you get hit, theres no ref watching, and you dont call yourself out, you better believe i'm gonna keep shooting. i dont care if its the the gun, the pack, the mask, your shoe, or anywhere else on your body (unless theres field-specific or game-specific rules). i play clean, but if you're gonna play dirty and wipe/ignore and play on, i wont hesitate to drop to your level for a few seconds, because at 12-15bps, thats all it takes to cover you from head to toe in paint.

ferret15
02-03-2009, 10:12 AM
its about the practicallity of the rules.

if you have refs its easier for them to call you out as they see fit without arguement becuase the game needs to keep on moving.

if there are no refs its hard to know if your gun gets hit sometimes and for the same reason its easier just to throw that one away to keep the game going. the 2 leg/arm and 1 head/body hits are setup to accomidate cheaters, if i know i got hit i call out. /story.

vikingshadow
02-03-2009, 10:32 AM
we never play at places with big ballons to hide behind and speed ball, its all about rambo style baby! to us speed ball is all about shooting tons of ball until u hit someone. no thanks.

if you need 12 balls a second to be good, you got no game. if someone new joins us with a gun like that, he usally one of the 1st to be shot up. lol. i have a gun that can do 12 a sec but i keep it on semi auto.

Thank you for proving my point in previous points.

:rolleyes:

Previous content deleted because of my signature.

bigred76
02-03-2009, 01:03 PM
becuz if it was real guns, bullets dont bounce off!!!!

Need I say anything more??? :rolleyes:

*walks off grumbling to himself about people these days*

SpyderMan723
02-03-2009, 02:01 PM
I simply dislike that the general player of woodsball is ignorant.


I played in the sticks for 2 years using my nerve, alias, etc etc. So i guess you wouldn't call me a "general player"

Personally, I think that people in paintball have different opinions of what form of paintball is more fun, and **** on the one that they think is less fun. I play both, and i love them both pretty much equally. But I havent really come across too many people who hate woodsball, because we ALL started off in the sticks.(or at least 99% of us) But i have noticed that some hardcore woodsballers can't stand the thought of speedball, simply because they would get raped in a speedball game. I was this person for a while, but once i learned more about speedball i came to appreciate it and respect it. Paintball is paintball.

slim and shady
02-03-2009, 03:16 PM
well for me I think allowing gun shots regardless of woods or speedball opens up for cheeting. Then you have people just sticking there marker around a corner and shooting. Blind shooting is something that should not be tolerated in any form of paintball.

As for Vike and Red LOL. I knew this would be an entertaining thread! But again I think we are all falling a little OT.

bigred76
02-03-2009, 04:59 PM
This is SOC... we're OT all the time, hahaha. I think we have a good discussion going here.

Troof, SpydahMan! I was just thinking that the other day, myself. I don't hate the woods, never have. As one wise man once said "hate the player, not the game."

kramernator
02-03-2009, 06:09 PM
I've seen a lot in the past several years that make me wonder there's even paintball around to play anymore. The newest generation of players (back to about 5 years ago) are the rudest, most ignorant, unsportsmanlike players I've seen in ANY sport in my entire life. Does it really hurt that much to tell another team "Good job" or "That was a good game" before and after a game? And doing it NOT for a sportsmanship trophy, but because it's the right thing to do?
.
.
.
I do really dislike the attitudes the "military" type guys (not actual military guys, but those that turn the whole thing into a giant army thing) who walk around with their chests puffed out talking about "kills" and such. When they came around our field, I really had to hold myself back from just lighting the crap out of them out there. I don't care they have a thousand bucks in camo and tippman gear on their bodies, so don't make it seem like it's the most important thing - and DON'T carve notches in your gun (figuratively, of course) because it's all for fun.


yes...

although i have not seen much speedball at all, (most of it on youtube vids) i agree that a lot of people are complete jerks, especially to the refs.

as far as woodsball goes. i think its cool to do a little camo paint job on your gun and whatever, but when you start putting huge barrels and stocks and especially scopes on your gun, you have gone to far.

but yeah, like a few of the other guys have said, i think that most of the disrespect comes from pure ignorance.

irishwarrior
02-03-2009, 06:51 PM
Well the huge barrels and scopes can be a little excessive (doesn't mean I don't have them though ;)) stocks do actually come in handy. I find that I can aim and keep the gun steady with a stock better than with propping the gas tank against my shoulder, especially when I have a remote line :p.

slim and shady
02-03-2009, 08:06 PM
to each there own I probably own the biggest most heavy papperweight on the planet. But all things considered I absolutly love that marker, on the same notion I am the first to admit that it is not by anymeans the most practical. I have 20 inch barrels ect and see no problem with them whatsoever, you might lose 20 shots a tank big deal not by anymeans the end of the world. Its all about what works for you I really like to have that advantage in woodsball where I can drop into the thick bush poke the barrel out and take shots at the opponent without them being able to make a shot on me. But again none of that to me should make any difference whatsoever to me about why there is so much animosity between the two groups. Really whats it hurt a speedballer if I should chose to use that equiptment, its what you do ON THE FEILD that counts, regardless of what equiptment you choose to do it with.

EDIT: forgot to comment about the whole kill thing, I find that most of the people who head to the deadbox and remark how they got 50 guys are the guys in the back who refuse to move up and that is frustrating. But for the most part there young kids just getting into it so I give them time to adjust.
One thing that was mentioned I think by xsivly-fat earlier was that they say for the speedballers to move up. To me that should go without saying if your carrying a marker and a few pods you should be the first to get moving. Your simply faster. the chances of you moving up to more cover and in turn putting heads down allows the slower players to move up. I think in woodsball I more prefure to use a small gun that is real light and light gear just so that I can lead the way through example. Its amazing how many people will fallow your lead if your not screaming at them everyother second to do something your not prepaired to do yourself,(for the record im not saying speedballers dont want to move up, most of the time when I look around there the ones beside me) I think in woodsball its even benificial to have a few speedballers with you, if you have two groups working well together amazing things can happen.

Splitter
02-03-2009, 09:06 PM
Yeah, if they have bright colors on in the woods, you can follow them around from a safe distance and shoot whoever starts chasing them : ) Thats not called using speedballers as bait, it's called watching their back (Way back there)

Nah, just kidding, much respect, speedball cats play hard and rush. Good sports too.

the_fen
02-03-2009, 09:51 PM
LOL! come on guys, i've played speeedball many times, too many jerks out there, which is why thier so many rules. more people get out by gun shots then body shots in speeball. i think blind shooting is lame too, if someone blind shoots thier out in our woods games which hardly happens!! i think counting a gun shot is chicken cuz you dont want to get hit on the body. i guess that if you dont count the gun in speedball, all there would be is mask hits. lol. cuz all u do is hide behind ballons and jump 4 ft to the next one, shooting ur guns up with paint. when ever we ask speed ballers to play with us, most not all dont do so good. i'm not saying whos better then who, just saying paintball is paintball, enjoy it. if you play with good people, then you can ease up on stupid silly rules. play it how you want too.:)

the_fen
02-03-2009, 09:54 PM
if i see you get hit, theres no ref watching, and you dont call yourself out, you better believe i'm gonna keep shooting. i dont care if its the the gun, the pack, the mask, your shoe, or anywhere else on your body (unless theres field-specific or game-specific rules). i play clean, but if you're gonna play dirty and wipe/ignore and play on, i wont hesitate to drop to your level for a few seconds, because at 12-15bps, thats all it takes to cover you from head to toe in paint.

do you really need that many balls a second? i bet id smoke u in single pump, match! lol

slim and shady
02-03-2009, 10:34 PM
do you really need that many balls a second? i bet id smoke u in single pump, match! lol


I think I would take that bet, DF plays pump alot, so where are you from trash talker because im really hopping its Alberta Canada right about now.

the_fen
02-03-2009, 11:19 PM
lol, i'd preffer california, so come on down! i was the last one of my buddies to goto semi auto, and i'd still win with a good ole tigershark pump! i miss that gun.

bigred76
02-03-2009, 11:21 PM
*gets up on Soapbox*

Fen... It's quite obvious your posts in this thread are being taken wrongly, by me and others on this forum. I'd advise ya to just let it be and to let the rest of us have our fun, because the mods have a fancy ban-nuke they've been waitin' for someone talking like you to try it on. :eek:

*gets off Soapbox, grabs Slim&Shady, and runs for ban-proof bunker*

EDIT: I'm also in Cali, Fen... I'll go easy and use my Reflex Sniper on you if you want. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/bigred76/30a6b0e1.gif Then again, I'm not as familiar with my Angels, Timmy's, 'Cockers, Spyders, or others as I am with my Reflex... up to you, homeboy.

DFSniper
02-04-2009, 03:29 AM
do you really need that many balls a second? i bet id smoke u in single pump, match! lol

do i need it? no, but its there, and i'll use it if i have to. as for pump, my newest toy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/DFSniper/Paintball_Markers_and_Gear/SANY0030.jpg

jim762
02-04-2009, 04:25 AM
DF, this my show my noobiness, but what is it, how much and where can i get one? :loveeyes:

vikingshadow
02-04-2009, 04:57 AM
Fen - now you're just starting to troll and that's not allowed here.

This thread is not made to offer "challenges" to people who live a thousand miles away. When you do this, you're only talking trash and can't back it up. While your second post has some merit to it, the other two are nothing but trouble-starting posts. This thread was made to discuss why the disrespect is around not to actually contribute to the hate, so stop.

You certainly are more than welcome to your opinion here. You're also more than welcome to continue discussing this topic with us, defending your opinion, but not in the manner you are choosing. Use clear and logical thinking and you'll do just fine here.

Examples:

Clear thinking: I disagree with your thoughts because in my experience, I prefer __________ because I don't care for the ___________ that ___________ show.

Logical thinking: (speedballers) are disrespectful because they call (woodsballers) names, but I really think it's because they are insecure about their abilities in the (woods).

Not so clear and logical: (Speedballers) suck because all they do is play behind (balloons) and I'll kick your butt with one finger.

See the difference?

As you are new here, and since you forced me to type all of that, consider this a warning. Just so you know, I'm not picking on you - just pointing out posting styles in this forum.

Now, back to the topic at hand. What I see is that MOST people (here, at least) don't disrespect other types of play, they just disrespect other types of players. This is the nature of the sport, unfortunately.

weitjosh
02-04-2009, 07:11 AM
i think the big mis-conception is that most players have only played one form of paintball. i personally am a fan of both forms. i do alot of tactical training with my job, so that helps in the woodsball perspective, but i believe that speedball is more of a sport. back when i used to play on a team, we would actually have one or two practices a month where we would go just mechanical or pump and play on the woodsball field. its good to mix some of that in bc it breaks you down to the fundamentals of paintball.........having fun and shootin some *******

vikingshadow
02-04-2009, 09:07 AM
One of the things people used to say about our speedball team was that we had a style all our own. We didn't play the same as other teams - when you would expect a team to go a certain way, we didn't, that sort of thing. I believe it was because we all started out together in the woods, which requires a different mindset sometimes. Did they dis us because of it? Sure! They called us noobs, but we still beat them. Later, they called us good.

I think that's the key - ignore the hate, keep playing and do what you do best while having fun at the same time. Personally, IMO, more people need to do that and stop this baby'ish picking at each other.

weitjosh
02-04-2009, 10:26 AM
sounds like a great idea vike, but as long as the world keeps spinning theres always going to be small minded people out there. im with you 110% on that

slim and shady
02-04-2009, 11:39 AM
anyway, not trying to stir things up but im more interested in why there is a dislike for military "style" playing. A form of paintball that I love and has to be my favorit so Red, Vike and others give me a little more info on why this is not a form of paintball you love!

on a closing note im happy I made this thread I think this is one of the best disscussions I have had on SOC, and informitive.

oh and Vike thanks for not Banning me :D

vikingshadow
02-04-2009, 02:49 PM
Day's not over with yet, Shady! :p

I don't care to play it because it's too realistic. I play paintball to get away from "realism" and to have fun. My week is as real as it gets, and I don't want to do that on my relaxing days.

However, I don't dislike it. I love the look of the guns, but other than that, I just don't care to play it.

Now, I believe there's a reason others dislike it.

Ready for vike's interpretation of history? Too bad!

Perception.

I think the dislike for "Military" style fighting is that it's too realistic and not everyone is into it. When we play war as children, it's make-believe. No one gets shot, the only argument is that "I shot you! You have to play dead!" Now, however, you put on a "uniform", you carry a realistic weapon, you aim that weapon and "shoot" your opponent. The government even made toy companies add orange tips to their toys so they wouldn't be mistaken as real, but not in paintball. Never mind the fact that those guns weigh 20 pounds, the BDUs are hot, and it looks like training for militants or terrorists (not my thinking, just what I've seen...)

I believe it has to do with public perception mostly. In the 90's and the early 2000's, there was a HUGE movement to take anything "military" or having to do with killing or death out of the sport. We stopped calling our shooters "guns" and started calling them "markers". We stopped calling out "kills" and such, and we stopped talking about "killing" people on forums all over the net. Coincidently, that's when brightly colored uniforms and guns started taking over big time. (If your gun is pink, it CAN'T be bad!) During that time, if I remember correctly, was when woodsball started taking a back seat to speedball, hyperball, and tournaments. It was important because we were trying to grow as a sport and if the public looked down on us, well, our sport would die.

However, around 2003 we hit 6 million players and paintballers started getting swollen heads (and egos). Their feelings started getting hurt that we weren't getting the same respect as other large sports like baseball, basketball, football, soccer, you get the idea. Paintball was getting cheaper as well so everyone could play at least once or twice a month now. Add to that the new player base of tweens and early teenagers and blammo! All the old terms came back in full force (killing, raping, mowing, etc...) The sport was not caring about how they were perceived anymore.

So, here's the old vanguard of woods players vs the new group of bunker jockeys. (I surely don't have to explain how kids feel about those people older than them? Anyone on PBnation around 2005-2006 knows that in spades!) What did the "old" guys play? Woodsball/scenario. What did the new kids on the block play? Speedball. The "old" guys hated the young guys attitudes, so they retreated into the woods or left the sport altogether leaving it totally in the hands of the young guys. So, the perception was that if you played woods/scenario, you were an "old" fuddy duddy. Percetion rears it's head again.

Jump to now. Those "young" kids are now "old" guys. They're getting tired of the new kid's attitudes (how's that for irony?) and are either jumping ship or heading to the woods. Problem is, not as many new guys anymore! Soooo, the reemergence of woodsball/scenario as the big deal again.

Mark my words - we're going to hear more about "militia" training and "war games" over the next few years in regards to paintball. Just like the old days.

tl;dr: Well, it's all about....

Forget it - go back and read!

ferret15
02-04-2009, 03:13 PM
wow that was beautiful. you should be a teacher or something;)

LostCause
02-04-2009, 03:58 PM
screw teacher be a professor, I actually read that cause i was intreasted :P lol

Makes a lot of sense though, but going back to the woods is not all bad, its sometimes cheaper (Pump coming back would make this a amazingerer sport)

slim and shady
02-04-2009, 04:07 PM
ok.......so if I paint the chief pink its all good right!?!??!! :D


Now that was such a great read im gonna ask you to elaborate on earlier posts about chest puffing milita folk that you cant stand. And this ignorance that you may think they have!

honestly I am interested!

vikingshadow
02-04-2009, 05:53 PM
Thanks! I actually had fun posting that. Now, whether it's all correct or not, that's up to the jury...

No, shady, you read my post incorrectly. Its not the chest puffing MILITIA folk that I can't stand, it's chest puffing in general - whether it's militia folk, tourney folk or whoever. I don't care about bragging people who come off the field talking about how they killed me and my whole team. Shoot, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then!

I was just using them as my qualifier because that's who we were talking about at the time that I posted that, um, post. Believe me, I can't stand tourney punks talking smack even MORE than the others.

The only ignorance I believe any player has is the unwillingness to accept the fact that others may, or may not, care for their type of play and that they willfully engage in said "chest puffing". That's all (if you look back, you'll see that I didn't care for the term "ignorance" that was mentioned earlier.)

I certainly do not think they are ignorant, at least no more than anyone else - and I certainly don't think that their choice of play is any cause to think so.

DFSniper
02-04-2009, 05:55 PM
DF, this my show my noobiness, but what is it, how much and where can i get one? :loveeyes:
i had that same reaction. its my latest project and the gun itself burned at $200 hole in my pocket, not including the pump kit! once i get the rest of my parts in, i'm going to make a humongous thread on my new acqusitions. as for what it is, its a '94 Pro-Team Products F/X Cocker, and from what the previous owner told me (and the tag that came with it), it's F/X Cocker #4.
ok.......so if I paint the chief pink its all good right!?!??!! :D
of course. then you'd be agg. :D

slim and shady
02-04-2009, 06:23 PM
The only ignorance I believe any player has is the unwillingness to accept the fact that others may, or may not, care for their type of play and that they willfully engage in said "chest puffing". That's all (if you look back, you'll see that I didn't care for the term "ignorance" that was mentioned earlier.)


hhhhmmmm lets see what **** I can get goin here ;)








They simply do not understand the basics and fundamentals of modern paintball, and thus I can not and will not respect them. If I see a change, then my opinion will change.... but until they do... ;)


So buy this then Vike you think Red is ignorent? Does this mean that I just jumped Red on Vikes list of favorite people, that I may actually get a famed Vike pass :D

bigred76
02-04-2009, 06:56 PM
Bahahaha, I am ignorant in some things, yes. What are they? You probably will never know... ;)

I've been busy today but I'll come up with a rebuttle for ya to bounce off of after tonight's class, Bryce.

vikingshadow
02-04-2009, 07:39 PM
hhhhmmmm lets see what **** I can get goin here ;)









So buy this then Vike you think Red is ignorent? Does this mean that I just jumped Red on Vikes list of favorite people, that I may actually get a famed Vike pass :D

Hmmmm, interesting. No, I don't think so and here's why.

They simply do not understand the basics and fundamentals of modern paintball, and thus I can not and will not respect them. If I see a change, then my opinion will change.... but until they do...

My original thought still stands. However, I wonder if he's discussing just certain players in his experience, and not the entire population of woodsball players. If this is the case, then he's only generalizing, but not necessarily showing ignorance as I defined it earlier. He does say that when he sees this group change, he will change his opinion. So, again, based on my definition, there isn't an unwillingness to accept something on his part, just a doubt that anything will change and until it does, his opinion will stay the same.

However, I had to think this through a little bit, so yes, I'll reward you with one Vike pass. Treasure it because they are quite rare! Good work!

Now, before I get into trouble, let's not make this about me. Let's get to other opinions as to why disrespect exists among players. Fortunately, this is all just MY opinion, and as such carries no more weight than anyone elses...

vikingshadow
02-04-2009, 07:44 PM
Bahahaha, I am ignorant in some things, yes. What are they? You probably will never know... ;)

I've been busy today but I'll come up with a rebuttle for ya to bounce off of after tonight's class, Bryce.

Rebuttal? I didn't even know I was in a debate, haha!

Ok, but I can't guarantee anything. That last long bit I wrote sort of sucked what little brain power I had left for the rest of the week...and I still have two more days of school to get through!

bigred76
02-04-2009, 07:46 PM
Aparently your opinion carries more weight than mine, Bryce. :rolleyes:

I think that via you and I sharing viewpoints the entire community has learned something. Be it good or bad *cough* not saying name *cough*, everyone who has some bit of input can learn something from what has posted thus far. I'll make my last good post in the thread and leave it be after that, I haven't really made a good one yet and the perfectionist in me doesn't like it. :shrug:

EDIT: Stop typing faster than me, Bryce. It's shaming. :eek:

slim and shady
02-04-2009, 08:02 PM
well now that I got a vike pass im happy!

But to put a new spin on things im gonna throw an idea out there to see what you all think.

Since the sport started in the woods, and the tournament scean came on latter along with it the clear change in the sport and its additude shouldnt the negative aspects of the sport then be directly linked to the speedball aspect and not woodsball? Life was peachy before the new form of the sport so shouldnt the responsibilty then fall on the ones that brought the change? why or why not?

Griff
02-04-2009, 08:37 PM
One of the best days of playing was at a private field, Hosted by a local speed ball feild that lost it's feild (City zoning & permitts) Mix of speed ball and rec woodland players. We played with no Ref's, with out a problem all day. The field was woods ball. But every one was having a blast ages went from 7-65+.That was a day when Every one was there to play Paintball in an form and it was great.

It is a sport to be played, How and on what field is the players desition to make.

vikingshadow
02-05-2009, 04:58 AM
I can't help it - I'm a monster on the keyboard, haha! As far as my opinion - I'm just old and have too much to say and no one listens to me at home. :(

Since the sport started in the woods, and the tournament scean came on latter along with it the clear change in the sport and its additude shouldnt the negative aspects of the sport then be directly linked to the speedball aspect and not woodsball? Life was peachy before the new form of the sport so shouldnt the responsibilty then fall on the ones that brought the change? why or why not?

I think that's a misnomer. I believe the attitude has always been there but the whole world started seeing it when online forums came into being and people started being e-thugs on the web. Youngsters think it's ok to act like that in real life, so they brought it to the fields. Get enough of those yahoos together at certain fields, and blammo! Then, make SOME of those youngsters pros and semi-pros, and now you have role models teaching it. Then, throw in the idea that you HAVE to be a national player to be worth anything, then after that you HAVE to play at least D2 to matter to anyone, feelings are going to be hurt, more chests puffed out, and attitudes even bigger just so that you can have some dignity.

Now, go to ANY small local field - probably of which there are more of than major fields around the US. I bet you don't find that much attitude (maybe 1 or 2 out of the 50-100 regulars) at those fields, either speedball or woodsball. We had a couple like that at our field, but we just went out and played - they either changed their attitudes, or left. We didn't get into any pissing match and it worked out. I'm sure it's like that everywhere.

But, because of the popularity of speedball, and the televised/Youtube'd generation has made it more accessible to the public - a person is going to see and assume that all this negativity stems from speedball. It's all a lot of people see. Think about it - a kid plays at a local field, and has a great time. There's no attitudes, everyone has fun, and all they do really is play woodsball because the field can't afford a speedball field. So, he turns on the net, watches video after video after video, reads all these forums with their negative attitudes and "one type vs the other type" conversations, and suddenly, this kid develops the attitude he's been exposed to (If you lay with dogs and getting flees sort of thing, you know?)

Remember, most of these kids with attitudes STARTED in the woods - it's not unreasonable to think that once they go back into the woods, they'll have the same attitude as they did on the speedball field.

As far as responsibility goes, I feel that everyone is responsible for their own behavior. However, if the problem is consistent at a field, then it's the field owner's responsibility to man-up and take care of the problem. That's just my take on that question.

Splitter
02-05-2009, 07:30 AM
I think that's the key - ignore the hate, keep playing and do what you do best while having fun at the same time. Personally, IMO, more people need to do that and stop this baby'ish picking at each other.

Hey no fair, I said that like 5 pages ago, but no one listened : )

I know what you mean though, you should see the looks I get when I show up to a random field with my camo's on. Oh, and when I pull out my Frankenstein Java/Kingman/Xtra/Compact Spyder people assume I suck, and Im picked last. But..... I play hard, and contribute to wins, and that's all it normally takes to get the respect from anyone.

BTW do you guys have to put up with the same crap I do for liking Spyders? My buddies seem to think Tippman and Ion are the only guns worth getting. But then they're are the ones holding the games up with gun problems, and here I am with my 5 year old Spyder, the only one ready to go every single time.

ferret15
02-05-2009, 09:44 AM
BTW do you guys have to put up with the same crap I do for liking Spyders? My buddies seem to think Tippman and Ion are the only guns worth getting. But then they're are the ones holding the games up with gun problems, and here I am with my 5 year old Spyder, the only one ready to go every single time.

untill recently the group i play with would refer to spyders as the "loaner" guns mostly becuase at the time i broke my sonix and was playing with loaner tippys and even owned one. Then it all started with a vs1 and eventually my custom VS2. now nobody gives me crap since i got my brother into a Mr-1 and we started giving them hell again:D In my opinion picked last is better anyways. you can see who you have a better chance with.

slim and shady
02-05-2009, 11:03 AM
Hey no fair, I said that like 5 pages ago, but no one listened : )

I know what you mean though, you should see the looks I get when I show up to a random field with my camo's on. Oh, and when I pull out my Frankenstein Java/Kingman/Xtra/Compact Spyder people assume I suck, and Im picked last. But..... I play hard, and contribute to wins, and that's all it normally takes to get the respect from anyone.

BTW do you guys have to put up with the same crap I do for liking Spyders? My buddies seem to think Tippman and Ion are the only guns worth getting. But then they're are the ones holding the games up with gun problems, and here I am with my 5 year old Spyder, the only one ready to go every single time.


People used to talk smack about my spyders, when they all used tippys. Then it was real cold -22/26 degrees celcius when we had a winter invasion scenario. they were all sitting around the fire with there usless lumps of tippy in there lap wondering why they wouldnt work and only choped paint. I played with my MR1 that day and it worked like a charm all day. Then of corse when I pull the chief out no one knocks spyder :D

Splitter
02-05-2009, 12:01 PM
funny you mentioned the loaner guns. We're trying to get new people to play all the time, so i have a 2nd Spyder (working on 3rd) to loan, and everyone else has some old junky Tippman 98 as a loaner.

Needless to say, the new guy asks which one to use and they all make fun of my Spyder and give them a Tippman. Long story short, Tippman doesnt work, or breaks 1 out of 10 balls, and they end up having a great time with my well-oiled, fine tuned, but un-fancy 02 Spyder Xtra.

That should be some common ground for all of us, people disrespect our guns in the woods and on the field.

What is this CHIEF I keep hearing about? Is it a Frankenstein like mine? Or just a really suped up Spyder? I call mine "WarPig" lol hence, the avatar.

irishwarrior
02-05-2009, 12:56 PM
The Chief (http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll145/slim_and_shady/Mr2project013.jpg?t=1211045104)

PS: It was in Slim and Shady's Sig ;).

slim and shady
02-05-2009, 02:09 PM
Like Irish said its in my sig.....

It is a frankin spyder here is the rundown

MR2 W/eye
Virtue board W/laser eyes
ACP 2 oring bolt
Spyder MR series wrap around grips
BT barrel shroud with CNL guarder rail kit
SP 20" barrel
Custom suppressor
Custom derlin shroud (thanks ViperX) with rails rail covers
EGL 47 grenade launcher
A5 riser rail (G36)
AR 15 sight mount
Walther red dot
tactical vertical forgrip W/conceiled Bi-pod
Trinity AK expansion chamber
SAW stock
32* spring kit
Vlocity shim kit
Q-loaded (cms upgrade kit, MR series direct feed mount, 10 Q-pods)
And of corse I run HPA

Splitter
02-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Yikes.... a grenade launcher? Ouch.

Mine is pretty simple compared to that, but:

Spyder Compact body (From mid 90's)
Java 6 stage expansion chamber, and bottom line
02 Spyder Xtra trigger frame (mechanical)
32 degrees Venturi Bolt
Kingman front block/volumizer
14 in. Empire Twister Barrel
20 oz CO2

It's way old school, but shoots so nice.

You should probably check out the Cushman custom creations spyders if you never have. From your setup, I'd say you would like some of the stuff he's doing. Atleast look at the Browning machine gun spyder he made and put on top of a Geo tracker lol!