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durrell
10-01-2008, 08:14 AM
TO ALL MY FRIENDS....LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE...FYI only.

George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) American's were buying new cars,taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...

But American's wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes--we got 'CHANGE' all right. In the PAST YEAR:
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted;
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION DOLLARS and prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) as I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~
$2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!

YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE...AND WE SURE GOT IT! ....

REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY CONGRESS.

AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!

JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?

Drefish99
10-01-2008, 08:27 AM
Change will be all that I will have in my pocket pretty soon :D. There is a reason Congress approval rating is lower than the president. Congress has sat on their hands for too long. Great thing they did for this country so far? They got a pay raise passed and then went on vacation. We pay these people too much that have more self interest than working for the people. We need change and I don't see it coming from one of the candidates that has never gone against his political party on anything. I can't see change coming from someone that in the past hasn't gone against what his party rhetoric is and actually fight for the people.

vikingshadow
10-01-2008, 09:40 AM
I have laughed at the "change" promised, first by Obama, then by Obama and Hillary, then by McCain. Seriously, do they honestly believe that we think they are in control of things?

Everything they want passed has to go through Congress FIRST. They can shoot it down in a hurry, and anything that comes from Congress will get veto'd - in a hurry. The only "change" that we're going to see is that we'll have less and less until finally something gives.

durrell
10-01-2008, 12:09 PM
They take advantage of the ignorance of the majority of American people. The president has no control over change. He can attempt to spark change all he wants to, but as long as we have a Congress who only cares about their individual agenda(s), we will be stuck in the same mess.

This country is so screwed.

chubb0rz
10-01-2008, 01:08 PM
Viva La Revolution!


(i'm kidding...I don't feel like disappearing)

DFSniper
10-01-2008, 03:13 PM
disappearing? you just showed up again!

D, i've been saying the same thing, but it feels like only the rednecks listen, and they don't care, because they're gonna vote democrat anyway.

Hoppy11
10-01-2008, 03:30 PM
You think rednecks are going to vote democrat? HA! They like guns remember? lol

DFSniper
10-01-2008, 03:44 PM
yeah, but they hate bush and the republicans even more because the media tells them to. trust me, i have to deal with this ignorance for 4 hours a day at work...

Drefish99
10-01-2008, 04:37 PM
The problem is the republican leadership has absolutely no backbone. It is so frustrating. You see the media bias. You see what the other party covers up. We see the truth and where the messes started and all they do is sit around. If I were them I would be telling everyone. They really need to do some type of educational blitz to educate everyone and call them on their wrong doings. It just gets so frustrating to watch all the wrong doing and the republicans just taking it on the chin. They almost feel that it would be unpatriotic for themselves to be partisan.

Critical
10-01-2008, 05:00 PM
I've heard that they do, but that the media won't cover it.

vikingshadow
10-01-2008, 05:16 PM
However, if they ever do call someone out, they get accused of playing partisan politics - it's getting so that if you have "politician" tacked to your name, you can't say anything.

Seriously, it's time to get a couple of new parties in the mix - I for one like things on both sides of the aisle, so I'd be for just abolishing parties period. Why really have them in the first place? Some countries have like 14 parties and they get along just fine. I say we'd do fine with just a bunch of people who were only looking out for the people in their area - and not the lobbyists!

xsvly-fat
10-02-2008, 11:22 AM
Wow I didn't realize that, it's a pretty scare thought and like Critical said the media would never cover that

Hossy
10-02-2008, 12:12 PM
xsvly-fat, there was a survey of like 50 people in Iraq asking who they would vote for.
5 people said Obama. They showed 5 people on my local TV news station, and of the 5 they showed 4 Obama and 1 McCain.

Im dont like getting into political battles, but I feel that the media is supporting Obama too much, and that needs to change so its fair.

STRIKEFIRST
10-02-2008, 12:58 PM
NEWSBREAK

Most media sources are Liberal owned or run.

Fairness...not a chance.

Americans are like sheep to the slaughter. Everytime a discussion with an Obama supporter starts I ask why they support him...he's for "change"...I ask how is he for "change" and what is "change"...(insert crickets chirping here)

Research...Research...Research. Don't rely on anyone or anything to tell you the straight up and honest truth. Come to your own conclussions.

I have my opinion based on research...you want it...PM me...but please all of you that are undecided or even in doubt of your candidate (right or left wing) do your homework...for OUR future.

durrell
10-02-2008, 01:25 PM
Glad to see you guys see it for what it is. I'm tired of it and try to educate who I can, I just don't think we will fare well on election day.

calebh
10-02-2008, 02:41 PM
REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY CONGRESS.

AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
democrats can't do anything. they don't enough of a majority to push through what's needed. and when they do manage to, a veto can't be overridden. i say "what's needed" because change can't be half-assed. you can't get some new stuff passed and expect it to work perfectly within the current system. so you change something else. and if, say, a veto threat gets in the way, well... bye-bye system.

i hold no opinion as to whether republicans or democrats are better (i don't like either), but i do know that polarized stalemates go nowhere and get nothing done. that said, democrats DO have a majority, but they seem to lack the balls to stand up to bush. they could, which would cause an even bigger stalemate until one party or the other gave in, but they don't.

NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!

JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?
you really think he's trying to change anything? he's trying to bottle and sell "change" for his own profit. so is mccain, for that matter. he's got the whole change theme going, too.

imo, when it comes to politics, go big or go home. the fact that nothing is getting done is the reason we're in this mess. and the reason that nothing is getting done is because republicans won't compromise and democrats won't grow balls.

and BOTH mccain and obama are in that do nothing congress.

personally, i'm sick of two-party politics. i'm voting for nader.

DFSniper
10-02-2008, 03:11 PM
not to start any bashing, but every time i see an obama sign/shirt with "Yes we can!" i want to photoshop his face on bob the builder...

and i dont choose people based on political views, i pick by gut instinct. not sure how that works, but i do (not like it matters, i can't vote...). and lately the dems. have impressed me less than the republicans.

marvin-martian
10-02-2008, 03:15 PM
and i dont choose people based on political views, i pick by gut instinct.

wat

DFSniper
10-02-2008, 03:28 PM
its complicated...

calebh
10-02-2008, 07:12 PM
like this one? lol
http://theconservativepost.com/WordPress/Photos/BOtheBuilder.gif
it's amazing what you'll find with google these days.

DFSniper
10-02-2008, 07:19 PM
lmao!!!

SundragonPPS
10-02-2008, 07:29 PM
Doesn't really matter which puppet you vote for because in the end, they all work for the same machine. The only differences beween Pinocchio and Howdy Doody are a few idealisms that they use to play on your emotions with to acquire your votes. After the dust clears in November, the government stage show will resume the same path of shenanigans as prior with a few new ventriloquists replacing the ones that used to pull the strings. Same machine, different day

xsvly-fat
10-02-2008, 07:52 PM
xsvly-fat, there was a survey of like 50 people in Iraq asking who they would vote for.
5 people said Obama. They showed 5 people on my local TV news station, and of the 5 they showed 4 Obama and 1 McCain.

Im dont like getting into political battles, but I feel that the media is supporting Obama too much, and that needs to change so its fair.

Yeah it is hard when about all of the media is controlled by Dems. The only really Republican news website that I can think of is World net Daily

like this one? lol
http://theconservativepost.com/WordPress/Photos/BOtheBuilder.gif
it's amazing what you'll find with google these days.

Oh my gosh thank you so much that just made my day!

And durrell, thanks for making this thread, I sent it to everone on my contact list, it's a real eye opener that you wont see every day

Drefish99
10-03-2008, 10:22 AM
NEWSBREAK

Most media sources are Liberal owned or run.

Fairness...not a chance.

Americans are like sheep to the slaughter. Everytime a discussion with an Obama supporter starts I ask why they support him...he's for "change"...I ask how is he for "change" and what is "change"...(insert crickets chirping here)

Research...Research...Research. Don't rely on anyone or anything to tell you the straight up and honest truth. Come to your own conclussions.

I have my opinion based on research...you want it...PM me...but please all of you that are undecided or even in doubt of your candidate (right or left wing) do your homework...for OUR future.

I got on the train yesterday and there was a guy standing next to me with an Obama sticker on his jacket. Our conversation -

Dre- You support Obama? I think thats great! So what part of his plans do you like the most?

Guy - Yeah hes a great guy and will make a great president.

Dre- Really? So what would make him a great president?

Guy- He is going to change Washington.

Dre - Really? So he will make changes to Washington and clean it up similar to how he cleaned up Spingfield when he was a IL State Senator? He worked great to make changes in our state didn't he? With our Governor and our Mayor? Like hmmm what changes again did he do for us? I forgot.

Guy - He did a lot. Why do you think he is where he is at right now. You don't get there by doing nothing you know.

(Train stop was coming...)

Dre - You should really read up on what your candidate did here in IL. It will blow your mind. At least he gave you a sticker... I guess he would have charged you for a button. Have a great day.

STRIKEFIRST
10-03-2008, 11:07 AM
I got on the train yesterday and there was a guy standing next to me with an Obama sticker on his jacket. Our conversation -

Dre- You support Obama? I think thats great! So what part of his plans do you like the most?

Guy - Yeah hes a great guy and will make a great president.

Dre- Really? So what would make him a great president?

Guy- He is going to change Washington.

Dre - Really? So he will make changes to Washington and clean it up similar to how he cleaned up Spingfield when he was a IL State Senator? He worked great to make changes in our state didn't he? With our Governor and our Mayor? Like hmmm what changes again did he do for us? I forgot.

Guy - He did a lot. Why do you think he is where he is at right now. You don't get there by doing nothing you know.

(Train stop was coming...)

Dre - You should really read up on what your candidate did here in IL. It will blow your mind. At least he gave you a sticker... I guess he would have charged you for a button. Have a great day.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

durrell
10-03-2008, 11:14 AM
:d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d

:D :D :D :D :D :D

vikingshadow
10-03-2008, 12:19 PM
:D :D :D :D :D

:D :D :D :D :D

Dre's my hero!

DFSniper
10-08-2008, 05:37 AM
and to add to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4

Taillo
10-08-2008, 07:15 AM
Hi, i want to point out something of importance:

In the last months, McCain was judged eligible for presidency, as a judge ruled out that his status of american citizen was legitimate. The judge said that for mccain born on an american military base in panama did make him an american citizen because a US military base IS american ground.

In the last months, Obama was sued, and served with the same accusation of presidential eligibility. The judge ordered Obama to provide a guenine certificate of birth. Instead, he filed a motion to delay the process. The elections are very soon, and the result of this lawsuit will be delayed to after the elections take place. This makes me believe he has something to hide. And the fact the DNC are well aware of this inconsistency, they still push him for the presidency.

This makes me wonder: Why mccain didn use this "october surprise" against obama during any of the presidential debate or the entire campaign?

It points me out to this conclusion: Both DNC and RNC have combined their efforts to elect the same candidate. This election race is a cover-up for something that will happen in the next 4 weeks. It may be another "grand theft white house" or a deliberate tie will happen and make Nancy Pelosi the US president. I cant ignore the possibility of seeing the martial law beeing declared and allow bush to remain president.

Call me conspiracy theorist if you want, the facts are still here.

marvin-martian
10-08-2008, 08:13 AM
you need to tighten that tinfoil hat. its falling off there...

calebh
10-08-2008, 09:40 AM
I cant ignore the possibility of seeing the martial law beeing declared and allow bush to remain president.
can you say revolution? there's no way that'll happen.

after watching the debate last night, i'm even more set that i'm not voting for either major party.

to a point, i'm with you taillo. i don't agree that this is an intentional conspiracy, but i see no major difference between obama and mccain. on the greater political spectrum, the points they're arguing over are tiny. mccain is a straight up moderate despite his attempts to gather the religious right vote, and obama has gradually moved there since he announced his candidacy, also to try for the religious right vote. several things scare me here. first, palin. second, that such a small group holds so much power over politics in this country. and third, the lack of choice.

isn't this america, where choice is supposed to be everywhere? so why don't we get it in elections? i see this election as a choice between shooting yourself in the left arm or the right arm. obviously, you have a preference, but if you really had a choice, you'd shoot the guy making you choose.

if we really have a choice, we wouldn't get caught up in the idea that we can only vote democrat or republican. just look at all the polls. there's rarely a separate "other" option. it's almost always "obama" "mccain" or "undecided," and sometimes, "other" gets lumped in with "undecided." what if i'm decidedly voting other?

vote for who represents you most, because if you vote for someone who doesn't and they win, you can't really complain when they don't represent you, because you helped put them there.

Drefish99
10-08-2008, 11:16 AM
Ehhh last nights debate was dreadful to me. Their back and forth bickering really drove me to not watch them anymore. We should really expect better of the candidates. Especially when they both said in the beginning of all this that they would both take the high road of campaigning and stick with the issues.

I just want to know what you are going to do for me and how are you going to do it. Don't just tell me what you are going to do but how are you going to do it. There is a push and pull effect to all this stuff they are promising. All the promising just leads me to believe I am either going to have less in my pocket or hello socialism from the looks of both candidates.

Ron Paul really looks good right now.

STRIKEFIRST
10-08-2008, 12:13 PM
Getting candidates to tell the whole truth and all angles is like..."nailing jello to the wall"

The questions choosen were far from what a town hall style debate is really supposed to be like.

My answer to the last question..."what don't you know and how will you learn it?"

THE ONLY APPROPRIATE ANSWER IMHO IS:

I don't know, what I don't. Because if I knew what I didn't know I would know it!

Taillo
10-08-2008, 01:05 PM
what do you think of ron paul and dennis kucinich ?

By the way, Nader is a better choice at this time....

calebh
10-08-2008, 02:06 PM
imo...

i like dennis kucinich's policies, but he doesn't seem like a president type. mike gravel had virtually the same ideas (except he supported fairtax) and a much stronger personality.

ron paul is much the same as kucinich, but less whiney, and extremely knowledgeable on the economy.

paul would have been a better choice than kucinich, and mike gravel would have been better than either of them (though with current economic troubles, maybe not). i would have supported any of them for president, however, none of those three are actually running. so nader it is...

DFSniper
10-08-2008, 02:48 PM
Ron Paul really looks good right now.

ron paul has looked good from the beginning. :p

spyderfan4271
10-08-2008, 03:06 PM
The first six years of this administration were not fine! The price of gas broke the $3.00 a gallon barrier prior to a slight decrease in 04 just before the election. The banking problems now are because of Bush's idea to deregulate. Just like when he allowed the beef industry to use downer cows (cattle that could not stand on there own) in meat which lead to a mad cow out break. A president who's stock portfolio wasn't 90% oil and utilities might have looked into price gauging by the oil companies that set record breaking profits. The oil companies have reeped the benifits while assisting in sending this country into a recession. I live in RV and van conversion country and all but one of those factories are closed. The economy has been so bad that at the republican convention mit romney acted as if the democrats had control of the house and senate all seven and a half years of this presidents administration. A war in which we spend 2-3 billion dollars a week has not helped the economy. If the media was as liberial bias as the conservatives claim there would be nightly statements on the news to impeach bush for lying to congress about iraq and his false intelligence. Ken star sifted through clintons waste for lying about a extramarital affair. If clinton invaded iraq under the same circumstances he would be brought up on charges as a war criminal. Hell this president has justified torture of detainees and wire taping all in the name of fear of terror( or terrur as w pronounces it). Anymore the republican party caters to the 10% that own 90% of the wealth and spin it through a conservative based media to get the poor simpltons to vote for there values. Churcheys want to end abortions red necks don't want nobody takin there guns who cares that W ran the country into the ground.

vikingshadow
10-08-2008, 03:12 PM
Our government is a 3 branch system and with the way congress (and the Supreme Court) is set up, there is NO WAY anything in Washington is going to change with the election of this year's president - I don't care who wins: Obama, McCain, Paul, Nader or if Bush himself somehow figures a way back into the office for another 4 years, there isn't going to be ANY change.

Face it - while there's a lot of blah blah about change and new government, revolution or whatever, after this election it'll be back to business as usual with the economic situation pretty much the same as it is now.

I'm like Dre - I've said for years, "What are you going to do for me and my family?" I don't really care how you do it, but do something positive for me. Unfortunately, I think any vote I make this year - be it write in or otherwise, is going to be a wasted vote - and ONLY because it's not going to change anything.

I'm quite delusioned with politics at this point. I was even thinking of running for office myself a couple years ago, but I have to wonder what it would do to me and do I really want people to think of me in the same light as politicians?

DFSniper
10-08-2008, 03:26 PM
if we were to regulate gas companies and banks, people would complain because that leans more towards socialism, which the majority of the population sees as a big no-no (remember adolf, benito and joseph?). but at the same time, people WANT the government to pay for this, pay for that, pay for health care, etc. thats ALSO a form of socialism. so until everyone realizes that the government can function perfectly fine under socialist ideals, prices aren't going to drop.

also, if you look at the business cycle, the economy was starting to go downhill BEFORE clinton left office. the bush administration was stuck with this problem, and thats where Keynesian economics comes in. ok, so they made a few mistakes, but you cant blame that on "W" alone. they (the government, not the republican party) tried fixing the economy with all kinds of incentives, which only made it worse *cough* home buying *cough* because they were giving out money that wasnt being repaid instead of stimulating the economy successfully. its the democrats with all their "lets make it easier for the common folk to do this and that" that led to this economic downfall.

and blaming bush on iraq isnt going to get anyone anywhere, whats done is done, and even kofi anan, yes, then-Secretary-General of the UN, said that the US is "stuck" in iraq because we can't stay there, but can't leave. if 9/11 had happened before clinton left office, what do you think would have happened? looking back at bosnia and kosovo, i think we can safely assume that he would have done the same. first afghanistan, and then iraq once it was perceived as a threat. and, if (god-forbid) al gore had won the election, i don't think he would have shrugged it off either. now, granted, he probably wouldn't have gone into iraq full force right away, but i don't think he would have tried sitting down and talking it over with saddam over a cup of tea either. and remember, it is CONGRESS who has the power to declare war, and i'm pretty sure they didn't give bush the go-ahead a la Palpatine.

calebh
10-08-2008, 03:43 PM
prices won't drop under socialism either... wages might increase, leading to inflation, but we've already got inflation without wage increases, so... yeah...

DFSniper
10-08-2008, 04:06 PM
yeah, overall prices might not drop (germany has a 19% tax because the government pays for schooling and healthcare) but if the government puts a cap on the oil companies, it will lower gas prices.

irishwarrior
10-08-2008, 05:58 PM
I am against socialism, personally. I guess I am more of a Libertarian, I feel things like the current welfare programs and other such systems in place are fundamentally broken in that they don't provide enough incentive to try and earn the money or become more responsible. I feel that the government is already too involved as it is in some areas. I hate the idea that I couldn't ever get elected BECAUSE I'm too honest and care about the good of the country, not my party or the lobbyists. I think that we need to fix our political system, from the ground up if necessary.

calebh
10-08-2008, 11:36 PM
if i had to identify myself with any particular labels, i'd be a socialist libertarian. i do have certain very socialist ideas, but i also hold certain very libertarian ideas. many of the end results are the same, but the ideologies are completely different. it would be nice if our politicians could put aside their ideological differences to get things done...

i believe the system does need to be reformed. everything from representation to welfare needs to be reformed. and i don't believe that voting within the current two party system will get that done.