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View Full Version : first day out, not so good


Dr.No
03-04-2006, 03:29 PM
but not terrible either. First i guess i should say hello, ive been reading threads on the board for about 2 weeks now but have yet to post. Seems to be alot of knowledgeable people around here. I've been playing paintball for about 3 years now but i would still consider myself fairly green since most of my playing time has been me and a friend or two in the woods. This is my first electro marker and my first time playing on a real field with refs and so forth. So anyway...
I got the red/black pilot acs, evo II loader, 20 oz CO2 with anti syphon, pyscho ballistics drop with bob long 1200 psi gauge, did the new airhose with macroline kit, pmi extreme rage razor 14 inch + stock 12 inch.
I read the thread about breaking in the acs bolt so i spent 3 nights or so working the spring. I ran about 300-400 balls through it playin around in the back yard and only had one break, however when i got on the field today it turned into a spray can. It seemed to get better after another 600 rounds or so but still breaking one here and there. So maybe it just needs extra breaking in or maybe there is something else someone can suggest. It also seemed to be double shooting quite a bit which i thought the double detent was supposed to prevent.
I also had some trouble getting it up to speed which i dont quite understand. when i was practice shooting at home i had no problem chrono'n it to 280-300 fps but soon as im on the field it wont go over 250 and was very inconsistent speedwise. i tried rampage paint first then switched to marbz which gave slightly better results but not ideal.
The biggest problem however was accuracy. I target shot a little with the stock barrel and could tell that it wasnt very good so i picked up the pmi extreme rage razor (only one i could find without ordering). maybe it was due to other probs i was having but it seemed very inaccurate.i could see them curving befor hitting a target like 25 feet away. Ill probobly return the barrel unless anyone has anything good to say about it, is it just a junk barrel? I have a JJceramic for my tippman pro/carbine and will probly get a barrel adapter so i can use it on the spyder. Do barrel adapters coz any performance issues?
Hopefullly you guys can provide some advice that can get it where i want it to be. And yes i want to keep the gun CO2 powered for now, as most of my playing is buddies in the woods i dont want to be dragging around a scuba tank to keep refilling when im not at a regular field.

jarhead3241
03-04-2006, 04:28 PM
the inconsistency part of it is because u need a regulator....or hpa or nitrogen....to make the consistency better.....and the paintballs breaking is probably because of ur barrel

Dr.No
03-04-2006, 04:35 PM
I tried rolling a few balls through the barrel and they seemed to be going through ok. 1 stuck but took very little pressure to blow it out. Are there any reg's worth buying that dont cost 100$+. i saw a pure energy for like 40 but the reviews ive read on it were pretty bad.

ooglieboogliebob
03-04-2006, 06:22 PM
well .. try breaking in the ACS bolt even more ... besides that .. always clean your gun :)

The double shooting would be your trigger bouncing .. You can prevent this by doing the magnet mod on www.ottersccustoms.com

The FPS problem would be caused because of the climate changes .. Co2 is affected by climate at unbelievable heights.

Accuracy is never awesome in a paintball gun .. because the projectiles are round .. and they're filled with paint ... Co2 doesn't make it any better because of spiking. Clean your barrel out clean with warm water and then dry it out, and then try. If that doesn't work either .. make sure your paint is perfectly round or almost. Make sure there's a perfect barrel to paint match meaning .. make sure it fits just right and not rolling out or getting too stuck. There can be a lot of factors ... so you'll just have to improve on them one by one ...

I'v never used the Razor barrel .. so i wouldn't know .. but i don't think i'v heard of that barrel before ... Try a Teardrop, J&J ceramic, or the CP one piece


Edit: Well .. i just saw the recent post and decided to add to it
Well for a reg .. you could probably find one used (boblong torpedo) for around .. 35 bucks .. good deal good reg. But since the Pilot has the weird VA your also going to need a new VA ... preferably the Assault block, or Trinity. Then your gonna need a Macroline Kit and a new ASA ... Im not sure if your gonna want to go through all of this but .. if you are then good luck :)

Dr.No
03-04-2006, 06:40 PM
I know paintballs arent exactly accurate but im talking major curving almost every time i shot today. i cleaned and cleaned and cleaned and tried different paints.
the barrel to paint match is something i apparently dont understand well yet. if its not supposed to roll out or get stuck then what should it be doing? I think i may just sell my tippman and get the j+j barrel kit so i can just match to the paint i have. ive got a j+j 16 inch on it and it works better than any ive had.
i would definitly jump on a bob long torpedo for that price and wouldnt mind doing the mods at all. im just kinda broke from getting it this far. anyone looking for a good woodsball sniper gun? lol

hmmm maybe its not the barrel maybe its my curse heh http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/464/

Dr.No
03-07-2006, 08:08 AM
I am going to try the magnet trig mod but for now i just replaced the trig return with a bit stiffer spring. seems to work pretty well.

Dante86
03-07-2006, 09:45 AM
i tried out my pilot (none acs one) last weekend and it worked perfect. so my guess is its the acs bolt. dunno if it matters but my gun set up is:

Spyder Pilot (sky blue)
Proto 14" barrel
48cu 3000psi tank(compressed air)
normal viewloader 200rd. hopper.

shot perfect, and the barrel is ok but thats just cause i expect every shot to hit the person. fairly acurate barrel though.

ooglieboogliebob
03-08-2006, 01:03 PM
hmm.. is it still chopping ?? have you tried it yet ??

Dr.No
03-08-2006, 06:16 PM
not yet, i need to get some paint. i ended up doing the magnet mod last night. seems ok. not a whole lot more resistance than the spring if any but it is nice and smooth. I guessing it wont wear out like a spring either. Hopefully i can make it to pick up some paint tommorrow and give it a try.

romntictragedy
03-09-2006, 07:33 AM
i dont think your problem has anything to do with your barrel i have one and have yet to have a problem with it and i use it quite a bit because it works very well with pmi paint which is cheap :)

Dr.No
03-09-2006, 01:32 PM
Scorch balls from wal-mart are pmi? they seemed ok when i was test firing. It's the rampage/marbalizer at the field i had so much trouble with.

ooglieboogliebob
03-09-2006, 01:48 PM
nope .. scorch's are gameface.. umm .. well you probably didn't put the right magnets in .. it needs to be rare earth magnets .. they're like 1.20 a pack at the rack shack .. 2 in each pack

Dr.No
03-14-2006, 09:09 PM
I know the magnets your talking about, i used to work at radioshack till bout a month ago. Im pretty sure the magnets they use to make our nametags (which i broke off and used) are the same thing. Anyway i may go pick up a pack and switch them out to see if it makes a difference.

Hob Hayward
03-15-2006, 12:23 PM
What was the temperature outside? Because ACS bolts hate the cold. Same with co2, but you'll get arbitrary chops with an ACS if its too cold out...

Tk-421
03-16-2006, 09:11 AM
how cold is too cold?

Spinal
03-16-2006, 04:18 PM
Are there any reg's worth buying that dont cost 100$+
Bob long torpedo reg (http://www.octanegear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2502) i have baught from that online store before too, shipping is top notch.

Dr.No
03-17-2006, 11:56 PM
so basically if your using co2, the faster you shoot the colder the gun gets, the less effective the acs is? It wasnt very cold that day but not real warm either. Im going tomorrow to give it another try with a SP linear 14.
which reg is better the BL torpedo or the Palmer stabalizer? im going to order one soon.

Hob Hayward
03-18-2006, 10:52 AM
Well, the cold shrinks delrin ALOT more than steel, and if you start getting liquid co2 on the bolt, the airflow goes haywire, and it'll cause random chops even if your shooting slowly. My brother mongoose 2 had the same symptoms till I stuck in my stock imagine bolt which I don't need, air stopped shooting out the back, and it stopped chopping.

vwjimmy
03-18-2006, 07:34 PM
sounds like you need to anti-siphon your co2 tank.....my 05 acs always performs poorly in the cold on co2....hpa works much better and you don't have to modify the gun to start having cold weather fun...although a check-it assault block with a palmers would be great too....

Dr.No
03-24-2006, 11:29 PM
yes my tank is anti-syphon. the next time out was even worse, couldnt shoot 10 balls without a break. I still see lots of co2 coming out of the gun. I started looking around and decided ill go ahead and upgrade. After lots of reading i had an idea of what i needed and asked the guy that owns the local shop and he tells me that i should not put a regulator on the gun or try to make any attempt at low pressure as it will just slow the gun down. basically that i should just get hpa and nothing else. he recommended a multi-stage x-chamber if i was going to stick with co2. now im really confused. My plan was bl torp+assault block and a cheap hpa tank, that way i could use hpa when available but it should still be a decent setup for co2. So if im understanding him right, if i do a low pressure setup to get more air efficiency and smoother operation, i will no longer be able to chrono my gun to a regular speed?! On a norm day of recball i shoot about 1000 rounds, so should i get the reg/VA and a smaller bottle or just go for a bigger bottle? I'd rather go lighter but if the reg/va is pointless then id like to still be able to get 1000 (or near that) shots on a fill.

druid
03-25-2006, 12:33 AM
I think your guy at the proshop doesn't completely know what he's talking about...you could render your marker LP but it will take more than the reg and a bolt...it involves the valve, VA (assault block as you said), bolt, polished and lightened internals and a spring kit...the combination of all those parts are what render your marker LP and it's the spring kit (valve/striker combination) that determines psi@fps.

Go to otter's site and read project LP and all the other relevent info there...it really is the best place for the info you need.

...and just so you know, there's a huge debate of pro's/con's...that running a blow-back marker on LP has a "more gas efficient" quality. Some say that the low PSI has to be offset with a larger volume of air...negating the effect of the LP. I personally disagree because I achieved great efficiency at 200 psi/279 fps in my Esprit. Others have apparently made the attempt and failed for one reason or another. All I can tell you is to try it. You can always return the marker back to a stock set up...

Dr.No
03-25-2006, 01:11 PM
i went to wallmart and got some scorch balls to do some backyard testing. First off, i heard some rumors that the field i have been going to does not store the paint properly. The room its in is not heated so any night it gets below 32* the paint is likely freezing and thawing. I think thats why i was getting so many breaks coz I ran a hopper of scorch as fast as i could and didnt get one break. Unfortunately thats the only prob it fixed. Shots are still wildly inaccurate (im back on the stock barrel for now, i ordered an empire 7 pieced kit) , and its near impossible to take a single shot. As far as i can tell its the kick of the marker making it double shoot. If i hold the marker white knuckle tight against my shoulder and barley touch the triger i can sometimes get one shot per pull but under normal shooting it always tries to double fire. I just cant get my finger of the trigger fast enough that the movement of the gun doesnt set it off again. I also ordered a java 68/45k. Will hpa help reduce kick any?

ooglieboogliebob
03-25-2006, 01:18 PM
well .. if it's doubleshooting .. it's because your trigger is too close to the microswitch .. and you need to adjust that ....

Besides that .. the whole inaccurate thing ... you might want to try cleaning your gun out, as well as polishing the bolt/striker ... and also while your at it .. you could also take the venturi out of the bolt...

Disassembly (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/assemble.html)
Boltmod (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/boltmod.html)
Polishing (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/polishing.html)
(Do them in that order)

BTW make sure you clean it very nice .. and then after you polish it .. lube the bolt and striker ... make sure your barrels clean also ... Add a few drops down the hole of the ASA (where you plug in your gun) .. Then add air, and dryfire maybe 10 times without hopper or barrel ... make sure your barrel is ... clean as anything .. but only use water and dry it out ... And it should shoot striaghter ...

Dr.No
03-25-2006, 01:33 PM
i have the acs bolt so i dont think the venturi thing applys. I have tried moving the trigger way out (its about medium distance now) from the micro switch. its not the resting postition of the trigger thats the problem its the kick from the gun bouncing the trigger off my finger as i am releasing.

ooglieboogliebob
03-25-2006, 01:36 PM
well then if not that .. try the magnet mod ..
Magnet Mod (http://www.ottersccustoms.com/magtrig.html)

Dr.No
03-25-2006, 01:41 PM
ive already done the magnet mod as well as tryiing many different springs befor i did the magnets... lol im cursed is the problem. I havent gotten around the the polishing yet but will that really effect accuracy? I thought it just made it run a little smoother (which may ease the double triggering a little i suppose).

ooglieboogliebob
03-25-2006, 01:46 PM
then .. the last thing possible is a microswitch .. it's probably set wrong ... i bet if i open it i'll see the metal put too close together ... microswitches are pretty cheap .. be sure to get the 50g's though

Dr.No
03-25-2006, 02:01 PM
what do you mean the metal too close together? Im in school for electronics i would hope this is something i could do heh. I think i understand where your going though, guess its time to remove and check the electronics. Maybe the vibration of the gun is shorting two unshielded wires together or something.

ooglieboogliebob
03-25-2006, 02:13 PM
well .. if you take the microswitch apart .. there'll be this metal strips .. if you pull them together the trigger gets lighter .. and if you pull it apart the switch get harder ...

But if you do get a new microswitch .. here's how to install
Microswitch installation (http://spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=291)

Dr.No
03-27-2006, 01:38 PM
I'm an idiot. I had got a spring kit befor the 2nd time i went out to the field and tried some diff spring combos because i was haveing some trouble getting above 240 fps the first time. I thought that i had changed back to the origanal springs but apparently i forgot the valve spring. I was trying to figure out what was going on and noticed taht it seemed to be double shooting sometimes even when it appeared i was triggering properly. Aparently it was trying to "burp" because the valve spring was too light. i switched it back to the stock and the gun is working great! No double fire, no breaking. Still haveing a little bit of a low velocity prob but ill worry bout that when all the stuff i ordered this week shows up. Out of 200 scorch balls and 140 diablo nightmare (the screwy ones from the field) i only had one break and it was in the barrel with the nightmare shooting as fast as i could. Thanks for all your help guys!