View Full Version : LP setup not working

03-04-2006, 04:21 PM
My marker is shooting 237 fps at 575 psi, I figured with my setup I would at least get down to 350 psi and still shoot 285 fps. And it isn't even consistent,sometime it will only shoot like 100 fps and sometime it won't re-cock. I have a light valve and main spring. What can I do to fix it? Will changing my dwell help? Oh yea my setup is in my sig

03-04-2006, 05:40 PM
Try changing the main spring to heavy and the valve spring to light or both to heavy.

03-04-2006, 05:41 PM
I think your problem is the magnaport valve. I have heard that they dont recock much lower than 400 psi b/c the exhaust hole is so big it doesnt leave enough pressure to recock the gun properly. Most people that I have talked to that had that valve had the same problem you do.

03-04-2006, 05:56 PM
I think it's a combination....
*springs...do as said ^^^^
*valve...change to a higher flowing valve
*Teardrop...teardrops have heavier porting than others like J&J or CF barrels. Try someone's J&J/CF to see if it gets any better...

03-04-2006, 06:57 PM
Something I just remembered, it was shooting fine until I put the assault block and tear drop on that but I don't think the barrel has anything to do with it, I was shooting a 16" Winforce before and it has porting most the way down the barrel.

03-04-2006, 07:27 PM
Try a light valve and a heavy mainspring .. ... but with your setup .. it should work perfectly fine with the heavy valve and a light mainspring ... (less blowback, and more efficient)

03-05-2006, 06:33 AM
you could also try clipping your light valve spring.

03-05-2006, 08:25 AM
Something I just remembered, it was shooting fine until I put the assault block and tear drop on that but I don't think the barrel has anything to do with it, I was shooting a 16" Winforce before and it has porting most the way down the barrel.
Make sure the hole in the assault block is 3/16 of an inch.... use a drill bit to see... Since it was fine until you changed the 2 parts...... the teardrop isnt ported all the way down so it shouldnt be the barrel.

03-05-2006, 10:49 AM
You never said if you polished the internals, modded the valve pin (for better air flow) or whether the ACS bolt was aluminum or delrin.
*Polished internals+ShockerLube=less friction
*Modded valve pin allows more air to flow through the valve
*Aluminum is heavier, Delrin is lighter but can swell

Air up your marker without paint and without hopper. Take a bowl of water and dip your fingers in it. Hold your fingers over the feedneck and fire a few dry-fires. See if you can feel air blowing up the feedneck. Next, dip yer fingers again and hold them close to the back of the marker where you cock the bolt. See if you can feel air escaping around the bolt to the back of the marker. If you do, you need to get a different bolt that has better chamber-sealing qualities.

03-05-2006, 11:35 AM
The bolt is delrin, I hate it it doesn't work and I even broke it in.
The valve pin is a 32* it came with the magna port, it looks like a better flowing pin then a stock or even a modded stock.
My internals are not polished, I was told the DH striker didn't need it and I haven't gotten around to polishing the inside of my body. I would like another bolt something like an AKA lightning but I don't think they make them for side cocking spyders.

03-05-2006, 11:48 AM
I tried the water thing and there is blowback coming threw the feedneck and on both sides of the body where the pin holds the valve in place.

03-05-2006, 01:10 PM
k......that's yer issue....you can get me on aim if you need to.... druid189189 .... but in the meantime...

To help eliminate the blowback up the feedneck and out the back, you need a bolt that has three O-rings...one in front and just behind the hole...and one near the rear of the bolt - pretty much designed like a stock bolt.

You can help eleviate the blowback up the neck by drilling holes in the side like this...


The pin that holds the valve in place is going to be the tricky one...I suggest getting a new pin before trying to fill in the holes but you might try taking the pin and covering the holes in silicone gasket sealant like Permatex...or even coating the ends of the pin with it.

03-05-2006, 06:26 PM
OK i put lock-tight on the pin and I no longer feel air. What will letting the blow back escape through the sides of my feed-neck do, I really don't wanna drill my nice Shocktech feed-neck unless absolutely necessary.

03-05-2006, 07:09 PM
i would invest in a good bolt with O'rings , b4 doin anything else.
even if u drilled holes in the feedneck to reduce the blo-by, u are still wasting air , that could really be used to up your FPS.

Those ACS bolts are useless when going LP.
if u check otters site on how to go about going LP, he suggests u have a bolt with O'rings, but i found out the hard way, by not fully reading every word on the LP project.

i am using a AKA lightning bolt @ the moment, had to use rear cocking instead of the normal top cocking(which is fine).

i also had to modify the bolt slightly. I extended the inlet hole of the bolt a few millimeters to the front, so it is more of an oval shape now.
This was because the timing of the striker , hitting the valve pin, and the air flowing through the bolt, with the bolt and striker recocking was slightly out.
What that means is the air going into the bolt was slightly hitting the edge of the bolts hole, rather than 100% of the air going into the hole.
So when i extended the hole, it worked great.
Difference is , my gun is a Electra 05.

03-05-2006, 07:24 PM
What type of propellant are you using? The following are just my views on your setup. Take em or leave em - ;)

ACS Bolt - Chuck the ACS. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see them available soon. Modify the stock bolt. Polish it and remove the venturi. You're blowby will minimize -
32* Spring Kit - Best kit you can buy for Spyder's. Use them in all different combinations over a chronograph, write down the results and use the best results. Don't forget those stock springs as well -
CIP 15* Assault Block - Good VA as long as it seals for your marker but if it was shooting alright until you put this on, why is it still on? -
Palmer Stabilizer - Teh shizzle -
32* Mangaport Valve - Get a New Designz valve or get a Lapco cup seal for the Magnaport. Do you still use the star cup seal guide with the Magnaport? If not, use it. It's important if you want the cup seal to seal every time you shoot your Spyder -
DH Titanium Striker - Sry....no comment -
14" TearDrop - It's an 'OK' barrel. There are better choices out there -
Dye Sticky 3 - I've heard they increase velocity by 20fps -
CIP Sweet Spot - Can you say. "shakey?" -
T-Board w/ Ramping Chip - Not an essential but it's your marker. Are all of the settings right? -

03-05-2006, 07:36 PM

i thought the Dye Sticky 3 lowered your pressure to about 120 Psi.....

:p :p :p

03-05-2006, 07:50 PM
.. no thats where your wrong .. it actually makes it decrease to 100psi ;)

03-05-2006, 08:31 PM
I put the stock bolt in and it has the same amount of blow-by coming out of the feedneck, the I removed the venturi and polished it a while back. It doesn't feel like alot is coming out of my feedneck but I really don't know what would be consider alot, my marker doesn't leak, everything has a good seal. When I first put on the assault block I had a weak valve and a strong main spring and I was shooting hot so I changed the main to a weak. I had to ref this weekend so I didn't really have alot of time to tweak it. Once I got home I changed to a medium valve and main spring and it has been recocking fine with no paint but since I left my hand held chrono at the filed I have no way of checking my fps right now. As far as my other stuff my sweet spot isn't shaky, its pretty snug and sticky 3's have nothing to do with pressure, it makes your marker fire faster just by having the dye logo on the side, duh, everyone knows that.

03-05-2006, 09:30 PM
then it's a combo of the bolt and valve. The magnaport isn't the best for LP...it'll do, but the best are AKA Tornado and Rocket valves

03-06-2006, 03:48 AM
try a medium valve , light main.
this will lower the dwell = less volume @slightly higher pressure.
what pressure are u running ?
is the gauge accurate ? mabe the gauge could be off ?
try another gauge to make sure.
if u are trying to run @ a very low pressure @ a high FPS, u might get quite a bit of blo-by, if u dont know what u r doin.

try keeping input pressure above 300PSI, but may have to go as high as 400 PSI .
all depends on the full set-up @ the end of the day.
If your maker cant handle it with the parts u got @ such a low pressure, then simply it cant.

Put a strip of duct tape in the grooves of the assault block, b4 u put the o'rings on. this will make a tight seal.The assault block seems a little loose for my like'ing.

03-12-2006, 03:07 PM
After a few hours of tinkering I have come to the conclusion that my marker will never be a LP marker. I tried the stock valve and pin and every combination of springs and it still doesn't work, I even tried it with both HPA and CO2 and nothing works. When it working its awesome but most of the time it burps, its like it shooting twice real fast and causes my balls to break and to chop. I've changed my dwell and the debounce and nothing, anyone have any ideals? Its almost to the point where I wanna sell my gun and get a new one like an Automag or Autococker.

03-12-2006, 04:17 PM
A stock valve and pin won't let you get to LP because it's flow is restricted. You need a high flowing valve...like a rocket or a tornado.
the "burping" is caused because it's starving for air. One question...did you plug the vent hole on the bottom tube where it meets the frame? You may need to plug it so that the excess air isn't diverted into the frame. Here's a pic I scavenged from Otter's site (proper Kudo's assigned :D)

Hob Hayward
03-13-2006, 06:02 PM
Well, I'd try getting an NDZ hp valve, thats whats working for me, and no need to do a complicated install like with the rocket valve.

ACS bolt
Modded uber high flow VA
Palmer Stab
NDZ HP valve
14" teardrop (not that that matters)
Unless the tolerancing on your body was bad,a nd its too large, I'd think that you wouldn't have a problem with the acs, but if you need to make it a tad larger, you can put a tiny bit of oil over the bolt, and it will expand a fraction, if too much you can sand it back down. Dunno if it makes a difference but I filed the front of my acs with a dremel so it "cups" the ball.

I'd try gettign a different valve, and do the mod on your VA so it'll be higher flowing, put those in and try.

03-14-2006, 08:09 AM
Here is a pic of my valve pin http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/1231/
I'm gonna order that ND hp valve and hope that it works. Thanks for all the help so far if anyone have anymore ideals please let me know.