View Full Version : Intelligent input on a Tourney Marker....

08-05-2008, 04:26 PM
Hey guys,

I thought about posting this on PbN, but I figured I'd get so many idiots posting, it'd take days to sort through all the mess.

I'm beginning to look around for my next tourney gun. My Super Bee is awesome for pretty much every kind of play I can think of, but if I'm going to be doing tourneys again in less than 6 months probably, I'd like to upgrade to a more solid tourney level marker.

I prior to leaving tourney ball before, I shot Angels. But this was years ago. Weight isn't a huge deal to me. Rock-solid reliability, ease of maintenance, efficiency, and accuracy are. I like my markers to only need lube, air, a fresh battery and paint. That's what I built the Super Bee to do, and that's the standard I'm looking to hit again.

My budget is going to be about $800-900 all set up and ready to compete. I have the loader and HPA tank already, although I may or may not pick up another 68/45 GA tank, but that doesn't need to be factored into the budget.

I've been thinking about these guns....please tell me what you think fellow SOC members, I turn to the infinite wisdom and maturity you all have to tell me what you think would be good.

Here's my list of guns....AND any comments I may have on them.

-Slightly USED DM7 (Not exactly the efficiency I'm looking for, but 1300ish shots off a 68/45 is acceptable, more would be nicer, but I can always pick up another 68/45 tank and be set for practicing away from a fill station.)

-NIB Bob Long Vice (LOOOOOVE the efficiency numbers this thing has been said to have, always was a fan of Timmy's.)

-Used PM8

-Used Droid

-Used Cyborg

I'm not a big fan of DP guns, or Aliens. I'd rather have something with more readily availible tech support and aftermarket parts. I consider 1500 shots from a 68/45 to be good efficiency, more is always better, but less isn't so great. Anything under 1200 shots off a 68/45 is unacceptable, as I play back.

Thanks guys, I appreciate and respect your input!!!

08-05-2008, 05:02 PM
I'd look at a used Timmy or Ego. I had an 06 Ego that was incredibly air efficient, I could get almost a case off a 68/4500 fill. The nice thing was, it was getting that stock out of the box. You could probably pick up a used 07-08 Ego in your price range.

08-05-2008, 05:09 PM
Vice, just because BL has some of the best Customer Service on that list. Not to mention it comes with most upgrades you'd need from the factory.

08-05-2008, 05:40 PM
Of the ones you mention, I'd probably go with the Droid 1st - I reviewed it here (http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=14073). It wasn't a glowing review, but I have another, much more extensive, 10+ page long review I wrote for a magazine that ended up not getting published for particular reasons that I can show you as well to give you more information...and it's a bit more positive.

Overall, it's a solid gun, EXCELLENT efficiency (well over 1500 shots), easy to maintain (a bit easier than DMs and PMs, though very similar internals.) Small, light, extremely fast - a solid gun. If you're getting it used, the price should be pretty decent (not sure I'd pay for a new one at the price...) Comes with a Matchstick barrel and a great reg and the board is incredible.

My second choice would be the DM, followed by the PM. I love spoolies for their smoothness and quietness!

08-05-2008, 07:41 PM
I'd personally say the Borg. I have an '06 and LOVE it. They have a resale of about $400-500, so it won't break the bank to pick one up. The only reccommended upgrade from me for them above stock is a PBK delrin trigger... silky smooth and so nice feeling! Efficiency is a whopping 1800-2100 shots from a 68/45.

Vice would be close behind it as far as I'm concerned, as the Protege I just picked up is really similar to my Borg. The price gap between an '06 Borg and Vice is huge. The Vice will run ya about $650-700, and the only real advantages it has over the Borg are really minor... 4C, Tadao board (stock Borg board is EXCELLENT, has everything you'd need, but Tadao is a little better due to the LED color coding for modes), little lighter (Borg is 2.01lbs or something like that, Vice is under 2lbs), more preference options for coloring and grips, and the milling on it looks better. That's about it.

08-05-2008, 07:46 PM
Go for the Vice. Great air efficiency and great customer service. And it looks secksy too. ;)

08-05-2008, 07:57 PM
Vice new, make sure you spend the extra on lube and ask bob for an oring kit and LPR tester. Borg would be great, but IMO you'd be better off buying new. If you're into more of a bargain, get the protege, it's only REALLY lacking on the board.

08-05-2008, 10:19 PM
Thanks guys,

I think I will go for the Vice. I checked them out at the Chicago Open, I liked it a lot. Sounds like a new Vice with a better ASA, board and a barrel kit will be the way to go.

Any additional input is appreciated too.

Thanks again!

Master Tech
08-22-2008, 08:19 AM
07 Egos are gong for $600...

08-22-2008, 12:53 PM
I would have to say a Vice or an 07 Ego. Both are great markers so I would try to shoot them both before deciding. The one problem with Egos though is they are loud and kick alot, I would have to say the Vice just cause I really like Timmys

08-22-2008, 02:22 PM
Yeah, I really like the Vices, I want to try and find a Vampire one if I can. I love that dust white, gloss red combo. And about a case from a 68/45? Amazing.

I've also been thinking about possibly a Marq or Rapper to save cash, but I haven't had a chance to play around with one, or probe the mind of a owner.

08-22-2008, 03:50 PM

They have Vampire ones and some other Timmys that you may like

08-22-2008, 06:30 PM
If you plan on keeping the gun go for the Vice since you can buy it new and stay within your budget. Hardly any kick, gets a case per 68 fill, its light, small and feels good.

You could also get a used closer for about the same price but it really comes down to what you like, poppit or spool feel (even though closer is poppit still) Although the closer will be worse on air and it is harder to take care of then the vice.

I have owned both and liked the closer better but thats just b/c I love the feel of spool valve guns and thats what the closer feels like when your shooting it. I also like working on guns so more maintenance wasn't a problem for me.

Either way bob has great customer service, my closer had a busted 4C eye on one side, missing some screws and needed a rebuild when I got it. Sent it to bob and a week and half later I had a freshly rebuilt gun setting on my porch at no cost minus the shipping there.

PM'd you place to get vice for cheap.

08-23-2008, 06:14 AM
Go with the pm8 i love mine, it shoots great is super soft on brittle paint, alot easier to maintain the you think. It comes with a 690 proto brrel that is honed in the same way as ULs and it takes UL fronts and backs. They are also extremely comfortable come with the best reg on the market , self cleaning eyes. Get the pm8 trust me best gun ive shot in a lllooooonnnngggg time. You wont be dissapointed trust me and feel free to pm me if u have any doubts about it.

08-24-2008, 01:59 PM
If you're looking for efficiency and reliability, I would get either a Timmy of some kind or a Cyborg of some kind. They are both great markers.

spray and pray
08-24-2008, 03:52 PM
Why would he get a timmy when he could get one of the newer bob long markers?

Go for one of the following markers
Rapper :D

They are all efficient, soft on paint, and have NO kick.

08-24-2008, 11:10 PM
Can I smack you, Spray and Pray? The Gen5 TImmy's ARE the Vice and Protege!!! Borg is better, though. :nododgy:

In reality, the Protege and Borg are very close in price used. I picked up my Protege for $375 and my '06 Borg ran me about $450, after the new trigger and '07 Red Valve. The Cyborg is a bit smoother, but then again, it is 2 years older and $75 more. The Vice is a competitor with the Borg, that's for damn sure, but I'd still take the Cyborg due to my stubbornness. The Vice is also more expensive by about $200 even when used, so beware of that. Also, the Cyborg does not have the crazy LPR/LP chamber area that the Vice has, and while the performance is nearly the same, the maintenance on the Borg is MUCH simpler because of it. No need to worry about an odd sized oring blowing out, all of the Borg orings are easily found in any paintball shop.