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vikingshadow
06-07-2008, 05:07 PM
I was watching them change the price of gas again across the street (from 3.85 to 3.90) and I got to thinking, when do we say, "Enough's enough?" I know that right now, I can't afford to get a new car - I currently have a Ford Explorer and my wife has a Grand Prix) and I certainly can't afford to pay 4.00/gallon to fill it up. It has been filled completely in more than a year now.

Granted, my town is a bit smaller than others - I could easily get away with riding a bike back and forth, but I do have to take my daughter to school. Then during the winter, there are weeks at a time that it would either be very cold or inclimate weather that would require a vehicle. Now, my wife has to work on the other side of town which is twice as far as I have to go, plus she's required to wear dressy clothes, so bike riding is kind of tough for her, especially in the summer when it's very hot and she'd be all sweaty.

Personally, I think 4.00 is my limit. I can stay home most of the summer - minus grocery shopping when I have too much to carry on a bicycle. I also think that so long as American's continue to pay this much per gallon, the prices will continue to go up. I feel really sorry for my daughter, who just finished driver's ed and is supposed to be driving right now to get practice for her license. We just can't afford it, and when she does get her license, we won't be able to let her drive due to the cost of gas (and if she pays for her own gas, there's a LARGE chunk of her measly income that she gets right now. We've already discussed other things she's going to have to help with...)

So, SOC - when will you say, "Enough's enough?"

shunut
06-07-2008, 05:28 PM
Our little group can say enough is enough right now, but it won't change anything. We need something more wide spread. I went bowling last ***ht, on my way to the alley gas was $3.99, that was at 7:30pm. On my way home all I saw was $4.15, that was at about 1:00am. I was shocked. Oil companies have us right where they want us, and they know it, said so in front of Congress. Congress asked why gas prices are going up when they are reporting profits of over $40 billion. They simply said "Supply and demand".

To make a difference we would need a country wide boycott of at least 1 major oil company, for a month at the minimum.

Technically, we have things good. $4.00 a gallon is nothing. In Europe they are paying $8-9 a gallon. In Denmark they are paying $12!

DFSniper
06-07-2008, 05:33 PM
Technically, we have things good. $4.00 a gallon is nothing. In Europe they are paying $8-9 a gallon. In Denmark they are paying $12!

agreed. but it still doesnt change the fact that oil companies are basically stealing our money economically and "legally." i bet if the electrical companies increased power prices due to "supply and demand" the oil companies would raise hell about that. but thats not going to happen because every time a utilities company wants to change their rates, they have to run it past the local government first.

irishwarrior
06-07-2008, 05:34 PM
Technically, we have things good. $4.00 a gallon is nothing. In Europe they are paying $8-9 a gallon. In Denmark they are paying $12!

That's because 9 of those dollars in Denmark and 6 of those dollars in Europe are taxes. They pay more, but, get more services from the government.

DFSniper
06-07-2008, 05:47 PM
germany is/was $8 a gallon, and they have a 19% sales tax, but im not sure what their gas tax is...

colonel_moo
06-07-2008, 06:37 PM
I just paid $4.07. I remember paying $2.85 last summer and thinking it was absolutely rediculous. Not much we can do about it though.

BloodLustAC
06-07-2008, 06:57 PM
Technically, we have things good. $4.00 a gallon is nothing. In Europe they are paying $8-9 a gallon. In Denmark they are paying $12!

But from what I remember reading, Denmark's citizens are supposedly the happiest people in the world. Interesting...

There's no way most Americans can say "enough is enough" because driving has become an integral part of the American lifestyle for many. How else will we get to McDonalds to get fatter, then back to our couches to order shady diet pills over the phone? :shouldiuseadodgy?:

badlandsrox
06-07-2008, 07:16 PM
Here in canada, we are paying around $4.92 a gallon (thats $1.30 a litre here in canada), and thats on the indian reservation (I always go there to fill up, cause it's around 8-10 cents cheaper per litre. The stupidest thing though, is that here in alberta, we are sitting on so much oil, that were second only to Saudi in terms of conventional reserves. When you get into unconventional reserves, there is more unconventional oil in alberta than all the conventional reserves in the entire world, yet we are still paying 4.30 for a gallon? something is majorly wrong with that.

Moe
06-07-2008, 07:22 PM
I think it's up to $4.15 here in the Chicago land area. I've been stretching a tank out to about a month these days. Hardly driving at all, and when I do drive I don't let it get above 2000rpm. I'm glad I'm driving a stick. Helps on the gas alittle.

DFSniper
06-07-2008, 07:23 PM
yep, but theres a problem with that too: setting up all the oil drilling stuff. its just like why we don't exploit alaska more than we already do. if the US were to cut off all foriegn oil supplies, we would be paying about $7 a gallon because of the cost of transporting all that oil from alaska. right now its cheaper to sell the oil to japan than it is to US citizens.

VS3 Sniper
06-07-2008, 07:37 PM
Honestly I think our government need to step in. I know that we have a free-enterprise system but this is just getting ridiculous.

colonel_moo
06-07-2008, 07:54 PM
Honestly I think our government need to step in. I know that we have a free-enterprise system but this is just getting ridiculous.

well if the government stepped in, it would just be delaying the inevitable. We're going to run out of oil sometime.

VS3 Sniper
06-07-2008, 08:07 PM
It may delay the inevitable but at least it wouldn't break the bank accounts of every day ppl. IMO its one of the main reasons that our economy is in such bad shape.

irishwarrior
06-07-2008, 08:10 PM
How else will we get to McDonalds to get fatter?:

That reminded me, if you have a diesel you can go down to a fast food joint, get their used oil for free, refine it and bingo, instant gas.

VS3 Sniper
06-07-2008, 08:12 PM
That reminded me, if you have a diesel you can go down to a fast food joint, get their used oil for free, refine it and bingo, instant gas.

If i'm not mistaken U have to modify your diesel car to accept refined vegi oil.

Critical
06-07-2008, 08:13 PM
...still doesnt change the fact that oil companies are basically stealing our money...

Oil companies make, on average, $0.08/gallon of gas sold, how exactly is that stealing our money?

...its just like why we don't exploit alaska more than we already do...

How is drilling 2000 acres of barren wasteland exploitation? Look at the existing pipeline, animals in that area are thriving.

Honestly I think our government need to step in. I know that we have a free-enterprise system but this is just getting ridiculous.

well if the government stepped in, it would just be delaying the inevitable. We're going to run out of oil sometime.

Asking for the government to step in is like asking Freddy Kreuger for a date. Depending on the level of government and the area, your friendly, helpful government takes anywhere from $0.16 to $0.60 per gallon. And for doing what exactly? The governments refusal to build new refineries, drill off the coasts of Florida and California, drill the shale oil in the west and drill ANWR now are the reasons for the ridiculous gas prices.

Trust me, I'm not happy about it either, I drive 40k miles per year, and have for the last 8 years. Gas prices have caused no end of grief and arguments in my household. However, blame those who are truly responsible. Need to find out who they are? I'll give you a hint. They sit in a big marble building with a dome on top and there's 535 of them.

VS3 Sniper
06-07-2008, 08:17 PM
When I said the government should step in I ment that there should be some sort of profit cap that oil companies would have to adhere to.

And I wouldn't be suprised if some of the members of congress owned shares in the oil companies.

Critical
06-07-2008, 08:18 PM
Why? Should Starbucks have a profit cap?

VS3 Sniper
06-07-2008, 08:22 PM
Honestly I think payin 5 bucks for a cup of coffee is stupid in the first place.

But Coffee isn't something ppl need to get to their jobs, Gas is.

xxcarlosxx
06-07-2008, 08:30 PM
That reminded me, if you have a diesel you can go down to a fast food joint, get their used oil for free, refine it and bingo, instant gas.
lmao (u mean bio-diesel BTW)

bamf-hacker
06-07-2008, 08:40 PM
Gas is insane. I just put in a formal request at the office to telecommute one day a week to help offset the cost of gas a little.

Issue is around here you need to drive to get anywhere...

Ace24
06-07-2008, 08:55 PM
It's $4.059 here at the cheapest. Just put $50 in my Camry and the needle is just shy of full.

I'm not happy... but I'm going to keep paying the prices because there is nothing I can do.

VS3 Sniper
06-07-2008, 09:00 PM
To make a difference we would need a country wide boycott of at least 1 major oil company, for a month at the minimum.

Honestly I think that could work....if we could find someway to spread the word.

colonel_moo
06-07-2008, 09:13 PM
It may delay the inevitable but at least it wouldn't break the bank accounts of every day ppl. IMO its one of the main reasons that our economy is in such bad shape.

Yes, it will break the bank accounts of your children instead...

How do you suppose the government helps out by the way? Subsidize gas usage of every american who owns a car? Yeah... that should do wonders for the deficit.

VS3 Sniper
06-07-2008, 09:16 PM
If gas prices wernt so high ppl would have more money to spend, there for money goes back into the economy.

I also think governments both state and federal should stop taxing gas so much.

bigred76
06-07-2008, 09:21 PM
Oh man! You guys got it CHEAP! I have payed ABOVE $4.35/gal for the last week! It's basically all $4.57/gal all around here right now! :eek:

vikingshadow
06-07-2008, 09:26 PM
I think we Americans need to seriouly consider another way to get around and not have to rely so much on our cars. Sure, there aren't trains like there used to be - not around here, at least, and the taxi service is neglible here as well. Forget about busing... But we can easily get around on foot or bike, or whatever. Carpooling would be great - taking public transportation is good also. I'm even considering those little scooter things that the Italians seem to like so much...especially if the wife won't allow me to have a motorcycle again.

What gets me, at least around here, there are people who complain like crazy about gas prices and think we should do something about it, then take their boats and PWC's down to the station, fill them up, and go to the lake. I don't take these people seriously. If it really hurt them, they wouldn't be at the lake EVERY WEEKEND.

I still have a very hard time believing that gas companies make all of .08 cents profit off a gallon, especially when they're bringing in record breaking profits this year. I can't see that Americans are actually using MORE gas this year than in the past 5 years to allow for such a profit margin. If it REALLY cost them that much, they'd find better ways to do it so that their flow of money is constant and permanent.. Sure, profit is the reason for any business - but I think that eventually, people are going to be like me and say Enough is Enough and then their billions will shrink. Hopefully this happens before a new form of energy is found or hybrid cars get cheaper.

bigred76
06-07-2008, 09:41 PM
Thing is that around here, people say take the light rail, bus, or bike all the time. None of them ever have, or ever will, the stuck up pricks they are. I have rode those methods of transportation for about a year each, and none of them are worth it in the end. San Jose, the city I live in, is HUGE, and to top it off, is surrounded by many other little cities as well. Instead of taking 15min driving, I'd spend three to four hours biking. By bus, two hours, at least. By lightrail... about an hour and a half. Time is money, and money is time, and I don't have enough of it for me as it is.

extrabonez
06-07-2008, 09:58 PM
But from what I remember reading, Denmark's citizens are supposedly the happiest people in the world. Interesting...

There's no way most Americans can say "enough is enough" because driving has become an integral part of the American lifestyle for many. How else will we get to McDonalds to get fatter, then back to our couches to order shady diet pills over the phone? :shouldiuseadodgy?:

yea we need to ride bikes to places to work that stuff off but the denmark thing i remember my teacher talking about it.

Its like they pay massive taxes but they are pretty much set for life like medical and stuff dont remember exactly what she said but i can understand the $12 for gas if you get pretty much every thing else [B]almost[B] free if i remember correctly but yea gas prices gotta stop but from my neighborhood shell station i was watching to/from school. one day it was 3.44 then when i came back it was 3.49 but its stayed at 3.99 for a week or so now

DRAGON
06-07-2008, 10:32 PM
.........Personally, I think 4.00 is my limit. I can stay home most of the summer - minus grocery shopping when I have too much to carry on a bicycle. I also think that so long as American's continue to pay this much per gallon, the prices will continue to go up...........

So, SOC - when will you say, "Enough's enough?"

That's exactly what the government would have you do. Sit home and vegetate. Less activity means less spending by your local government on watching all it's little subjects. Less wear & tear on the city streets, less activity for the police to take care of, less activity for fire departments, a dead sedated city is a good city. Sit at home and order the things you need online -

While they're at it, snuff out the middle class. Either you're filthy rich and care less if gas costs $50 a gallon or you're continually scraping to make ends meet almost at the bottom of the barrel -

Don't count on your government to do anything to lower gas prices. You will continue to pay more while they're chauffeured around living the high life on the money you give them and will continue to give them every single day of your life. You have no choice but to pay or live in the streets. You cannot say enough's enough unless you take it to the streets. Most all are too comfortable to do that so get your bus ticket ready. Face it, there's really not a damned thing you can do about it. Reality really sucks at times doesn't it? - :D

calebh
06-07-2008, 11:04 PM
as a few have said, driving is too integral a part of our society. we can't afford to buy more gas, and we can't afford not to. we're screwed. as long as the suburbs are nowhere near the shopping centers, which are nowhere near the workplaces, which are nowhere near the suburbs, the demand will be high. few cities in america have decent public transportation, and few people are willing to use it.

any real change must be preceded by a major change in our lifestyle. i'm fairly sure suburbia will have to die, and sprawling metropolises will have to shrink considerably.

unless everything suddenly becomes infinitely more efficient

Ace24
06-08-2008, 12:23 AM
Our bus route only takes you around the "city."

Most of everything I do is out in the suburban area and the towns surrounding the city I live in. Taking a bus does nothing for me accept waste time. Sure, we can get $1 all day bus passes... but that pass will take me all day to get to where I need to go. Not to mention getting back again.

DFSniper
06-08-2008, 02:31 AM
It's $4.059 here at the cheapest. Just put $50 in my Camry and the needle is just shy of full.

I'm not happy... but I'm going to keep paying the prices because there is nothing I can do.

same here, i spend a little over $50 for a full tank, but it lasts me a while. the only places i really drive are to work 5-6 days a week (use about 1 gallon per trip) and to my friends house, which is about 5 miles from my house. my friend, on the other hand, gets 35 MPG and still uses a quarter tank to commute to louisville 5 days a week. his tank has only been topped off once in the past 6 months!

colonel_moo
06-08-2008, 08:52 AM
If gas prices wernt so high ppl would have more money to spend, there for money goes back into the economy.

I also think governments both state and federal should stop taxing gas so much.


If they stop taxing gas, what are they going to do to replace that income? We are, after all, still at war.

irishwarrior
06-08-2008, 09:05 AM
Motorcycles FTW! My dad's motorcycle gets about 50 MPG.

Hoppy11
06-08-2008, 09:26 AM
I have a question for who ever said that gas companies only make like 0.08$ per gallon sold. If you are backing them and saying they hardly make any money then how are they recording record breaking profits for like the past 3 years.

Thats just my question because every year gas goes up, and every year companies record record profits.....

Now the other thing that annoys me is that half.. well probably more than half of the people i know either A) have an SUV or B) have a truck and they ***** and complain about gas everyday. What do they use those vehicles for.. NOTHING! They don't tow a trailer or a boat or have a big family or haul hay bails. They just have them. I just laugh at people like that because they are just stupid.. buy a car or hell even a crossover.

Although the gas prices are incredibly high it isn't ruining our families summer fun or my summer fun. Yes we are going to spend more money, but hey.. its only money, you can't take it with you.

Critical
06-08-2008, 10:00 AM
That's easy to answer. A company sells something, and makes a certain amount per item. What happens when the quantity of items being sold triples? They still make the same amount per item, but they get "windfall profits" due to the volume.

As far as it only being money, and you can't take it with you, what about those of us who are just trying to make it through the week. Then add in a tax and spend Governor an out of control Congress.

DRAGON
06-08-2008, 10:01 AM
The Amish are laughing at us right now - :smirk:

LostCause
06-08-2008, 10:21 AM
Econmist are alrady saying its going to drop down to $3ish by fall, i hope so cause im tryign to intern with the Secret Service next spring or winter...and have to drive bout 30-60 miles to get there :(

Gas companys make more then enough money, and anyone who supports them...shame on you. When their CEo's aer makeing millions? they can cut that out, and make it easier for the lil guys. Though noooo....we get screwed...

What I think we should do, were in Iraq, atleast we can do is take their oil, they can get over it. We go to war with countries that can help us out in some way, thats the truth and we all know it. Let us actually get something out of it if we are going to stay...

sorry my rant is over...offends anyone please take it away.

durrell
06-08-2008, 10:28 AM
The problem is all based on economics.

A.) Supply and demand - Basically they have us by our throats because we have barely any supply. If we could sustain ourselves on our own reserves and take away some of our dependency on foreign oil, we would see price decreases.

B.) Inflation - A dollar is not worth what it used to be. A lot of oil companies used to base their prices on the U.S. dollar because it was so much stronger than other world currencies. Now, some are already, or planning to, base their prices on a "basket" of world currencies..many of which are worth more than the U.S. dollar. Therefore, we suffer because of that. But when you have the Federal Reserve injecting millions of dollars into the economy rather than pulling some out, the value of our dollars are going to continue to fall.

C.) Taxes - Many people don't realize how much we are taxed per gallon of gas. I know in NC it's close to 50 cent per gallon..just for state taxes.

LostCause
06-08-2008, 10:39 AM
A: Correct
B: Blame war, if we pulled out of Iraq, (not Afghanstan...sorry we are actually doing well...at times) we would save billions, maybe even a trillion...but instead we build the biggest embassy in the world there....
C:need taxes, personly belive we should be WAYYYY stricter on gas companies..just my oppion

Critical
06-08-2008, 10:42 AM
...When their CEo's aer makeing millions? they can cut that out, and make it easier for the lil guys. Though noooo....we get screwed...

So now the government is going to take the oil companies profits, and, we will regulate how much those private companies can pay their executives?

Karl Marx would be so proud.

What I think we should do, were in Iraq, atleast we can do is take their oil, they can get over it. We go to war with countries that can help us out in some way, thats the truth and we all know it. Let us actually get something out of it if we are going to stay...

Ah, so now we are simply going to take what we need, from where we need it. The imperial British empire tried the same thing, look how far it got them, long term.

The problem is all based on economics.

A.) Supply and demand - Basically they have us by our throats because we have barely any supply. If we could sustain ourselves on our own reserves and take away some of our dependency on foreign oil, we would see price decreases.

What makes you think that the oil companies don't want to drill for more? Every news report I've seen, that's credible, says they are begging to drill more and to build more refineries. We have supply enough for about 50 years, more than enough time for a replacement source to be created. However, we may have to irritate some tree huggers.

[QUOTE=durrell;205042B.) Inflation - A dollar is not worth what it used to be. A lot of oil companies used to base their prices on the U.S. dollar because it was so much stronger than other world currencies. Now, some are already, or planning to, base their prices on a "basket" of world currencies..many of which are worth more than the U.S. dollar. Therefore, we suffer because of that. But when you have the Federal Reserve injecting millions of dollars into the economy rather than pulling some out, the value of our dollars are going to continue to fall.

C.) Taxes - Many people don't realize how much we are taxed per gallon of gas. I know in NC it's close to 50 cent per gallon..just for state taxes.[/QUOTE]

Look at that! We agree. (except for the bit about the fed, but that's a different discussion).

Critical
06-08-2008, 10:44 AM
Oh, I give up. In the time I took to write my responses more Socialism was written.

Just remember, sometimes, when you ask long enough, loud enough, you actually get what you're asking for. Spend a long time thinking about whether you want your Government running everything.

LostCause
06-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Are country is already going down that road, Unversal Medical? bet you support that, and that is a huge step in Socailism, Social secuirty, medicaid (i think that one), Welfare, We have moer Socailst aspects.

Also we regulate Energy Business? BGE for instance, MD has often shut down what they are trying to do.

The long run, the British are still one of the most powerfull countries, econmomcialy, miltary wise they are still a force to be reckenond with. Though they lost there land, but in the end, it was going to happen from the get-go. Look at every war we have been in, we have took something, or put our needs first.

Yeah I have some Socailist ideas, do I agree with the Goverment owning everything no! I dont like how we are sending jobs to Foreign countries, while we have 10% unemployment! We are a world leader! and that is totaly unacceptable, heck 5% is too. I don't agree with us using Private Contractors (Merc's for all puproses), in War, in Domestic events, and in "Gaining intel" We spent more money for Private Contractors in Katrina then we did for food, water, and shelter. Our country makes some stupid mistakes, and all fuled by greed and corruption.

We are a Socalist Country, and a Democratic-Rebuplic country, you cant hide that fact, the whole world knows it. We also look like a country that is dying, and every body sees that too, we are strecth to thin, when a REAL threat happens (Read: Iran, or N.Korea) then there will be a draft, and then everybody (yes women too) will be pressed into service. What about our oil chances then? No matter what we do there is only one option, find a Alternative, and do it quick.

that and we are using less oil as a country! but oil prices go up? honestly, that is totaly Bull...
/Rant
sorry...just ticks me off....

Dimitrio
06-08-2008, 12:49 PM
I think the highest I've paid in Toronto is $3?...And that was ONCE, over the summer.

irishwarrior
06-08-2008, 01:59 PM
Darn Canucks :D

LostCause
06-08-2008, 02:02 PM
WAH!!!! Canada does hey everything better lol

DFSniper
06-08-2008, 02:25 PM
Are country is already going down that road, Unversal Medical? bet you support that, and that is a huge step in Socailism, Social secuirty, medicaid (i think that one), Welfare, We have moer Socailst aspects.

agreed.

Just remember, sometimes, when you ask long enough, loud enough, you actually get what you're asking for. Spend a long time thinking about whether you want your Government running everything.
but thats the whole point of this thread, WHEN is "enough?" without a giant nationwide boycott/protest, we can't make a difference.
A: Correct
B: Blame war, if we pulled out of Iraq, (not Afghanstan...sorry we are actually doing well...at times) we would save billions, maybe even a trillion...but instead we build the biggest embassy in the world there....
C:need taxes, personly belive we should be WAYYYY stricter on gas companies..just my oppion
B: how so? is a few billion dollars in money the US doesnt have to begin with worth an unstable country who's development will probably affect world relations and economic trade?
C: its not about the taxes, but what gets done with the taxes we already have. i'm not going to repost it here because its too long and a little OT, but i sent Durrell an essay i received on Congress and the war in Iraq. basically it says that Congress voted themselves a $15,000 pay raise while they only passed a 1-2% raise to the military thats actually doing all the work.
The problem is all based on economics.

A.) Supply and demand

B.) Inflation

C.) Taxes
agreed.

LostCause
06-08-2008, 02:40 PM
B: Well the thing is, no matter what we do, we are FORCING Democracy on them, and honestly, Deomcracy doesnt always work. We should let them have decided, also not really are problem, we are helping, just them being stupid, im not going to sit here and be like well the ****tes and te Sunnis have a good reason to be hateful! THEY DONT! they are seperate because of politacl reasons dealing with the Cailphs (sp?) so we can't do much more unless they stop careing about their religion.

badlandsrox
06-08-2008, 02:48 PM
I think the highest I've paid in Toronto is $3?...And that was ONCE, over the summer.



I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that thats BS, cause here in calgary were paying damn near a buck thirty for a litre, (something like 3.785 or near there in one US gallon), and calgary has the 2nd lowest prices in canada on average (which are still way too much... see my rant on the first page...), and if your paying $3 per gallon, thats 79ish cents a litre, which maybe would have been true five years ago, but i highly doubt your paying $3 per gallon, and if you payed three per litre, that was a huge rip, thats like 11.50 or something around there, which is one huge rip off haha.

DFSniper
06-08-2008, 02:54 PM
We should let them have decided, also not really are problem, we are helping, just them being stupid, im not going to sit here and be like well the ****tes and te Sunnis have a good reason to be hateful! THEY DONT! they are seperate because of politacl reasons dealing with the Cailphs (sp?) so we can't do much more unless they stop careing about their religion.

its all about religious differences, like Ireland and N. Ireland, but i know what you're getting at.

LostCause
06-08-2008, 05:15 PM
yeah, sadly. Sorry for my ranting yall, and if i offended anyone im deeply sorry for it.

OSOK
06-08-2008, 05:28 PM
Oil companies have their profit margin and supposedly they are at a 7% profit margin, which you generally want a 10% for any company. They may be making a lot of money, but they have to spend over half of it right away.

HelpDeskHustler
06-08-2008, 06:34 PM
Hydrogen is the solution. People aren't ready for mass transit. Put nuclear reactors off shore, hydrolysizing the salt water, and bring back the hho gas and burn it in cars.

OSOK
06-08-2008, 06:43 PM
Down here in California someone has made a machine for 800$ that will take the Hydrogen out of water and you can use it in your car.

HelpDeskHustler
06-08-2008, 07:00 PM
Down here in California someone has made a machine for 800$ that will take the Hydrogen out of water and you can use it in your car.

It's great for economical purposes but if you want one to be environmental, you might as well just use a gas car since electric cars use energy produced by primarily coal, hybrid cars create enough carbon emissions in production alone to make them less environmentally friendly for the first 50k miles and hydrogen is a fairly inefficient use of electricity, it's just a much more practical way of moving energy from the generator to the car. It takes an average solar panel a week to convert enough water to equal a tank of gas in hydrogen. Nuclear is the answer, but since we can't trust citizens now-a-days it'd be best to put it off shore and just move the hydrogen rather than the electricity produced since the high voltage needed for a decently powerful car is much more dangerous than a small tank of hydrogen.

interceptorMR2
06-08-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm in a similar situation as your daughter vike, I'm fifteen and I turn 16 this august, and although I have a car, its not exactly ideal for gas mileage. I have one word for you. Suburban. I could never afford to fill that thing up, and even if I got a more fuel efficient car, none of that would help. bleh...

DFSniper
06-08-2008, 08:06 PM
get a prius or whatever car gets 45 mpg...

Hoppy11
06-08-2008, 08:23 PM
As far as it only being money, and you can't take it with you, what about those of us who are just trying to make it through the week. Then add in a tax and spend Governor an out of control Congress.


I understand people are struggling. And if you don't think I am you are nuts. I go to the second most exspensive college in Michigan and have loans up my ass. I am just saying that at some point you have to stop complaining and just bite the damn bullet. I know Im not going to just sit on the couch at home because gas is a dollar more per gallon than last year.

TheDarkShadow
06-08-2008, 08:34 PM
my bro has an ugly ass 93 toyota tercel that gpt 35mpg but after slamming on the brakes on the highway (to avoid rearending the guy infront of him who slammed on his brakes) it broke the driver side control arm/ A-arm. he is looking for a replacement arm, but its not looking good. and now he's stuck driving his jimmy which gets like 16 mpgs. right now i'm driving a badass
( :majordodgy: ) 95 gran prix which gets like 22 or 23 mpg

interceptorMR2
06-08-2008, 08:42 PM
a prius wont work here. believe me, central oregon= random weather. we could have a really short, rainy winter or a really long, cold, snowy and icy one. Ill probably try to get a subaru, its probably best for the environment here.

TheDarkShadow
06-08-2008, 08:45 PM
get an imprezza or lancer, awd ftw

badlandsrox
06-08-2008, 09:21 PM
you guys have it easy for gas mileage, i drive a 99 GMC sierra, and an 87 jeep wrangler on the side, neither of them are known for gas mileage, and to top that off, the truck is now past 300,000k so before too long, more and more money is going to have to go into it to keep it on the road (put a new water pump in it a month ago, alternator is on its way out, new transmission a couple of months ago...) all in all, this is going to be a very expensive summer for driving on my part... :S

durrell
06-08-2008, 10:50 PM
What makes you think that the oil companies don't want to drill for more? Every news report I've seen, that's credible, says they are begging to drill more and to build more refineries. We have supply enough for about 50 years, more than enough time for a replacement source to be created. However, we may have to irritate some tree huggers.

Look at that! We agree. (except for the bit about the fed, but that's a different discussion).

I usually agree with you on most things.

And I know the oil companies want to drill for more..I was talking about the Liberals and tree huggers that won't allow it.

Sorry if that offends someone, but it's the truth. Conservatives have been pushing for more drilling and refineries for years..but that's always been a no go.

And yeah, the Fed issue is sort of personal opinion. By economic standards, it's true..but you also have to look at the credit crisis, etc. and realize that it may be justified. So I can see how your opinion would be different.

DFSniper
06-09-2008, 02:41 AM
i drive an '01 galant and only get 22 mpg, my mom has an '07 focus and gets about 30-35, and my dad has an '07 Ram 2500 and is lucky to get 13... he ended up buying a harley and drives that more than the truck now.

but i agree with the guy that said to get a lancer, 29 mpg highway isnt bad for that kind of car.

vikingshadow
06-09-2008, 07:35 AM
So, not to beat a dead cat, but what I see from the responses given is that most people on this forum believe the same way as the rest of the country. Nothing we can do about it so we may as well just suck it up and quietly give in. Although, knowing Americans we'll run off at the mouth about it, while not really doing anything physically. Adapt or die, so to speak.

I'm sure I'll do the same thing, and become one of the masses that complains about it while I'm filling my tank half way because I can't afford to fill it all the way. What I think is that it doesn't matter if I understand WHY gas is so expensive. I just want to see someone try to get it lowered so that we can have some relief from pump stress. Now, whether that be by coming up with an alternate fuel source (that in itself not a viable option in my mind because if you can't afford to get a different car, how can you afford to switch or modify the engine in your current car, sometimes costing MORE than a new/used car would be?) or by using the supplies we have above and below ground ourselves doesn't really matter at this point. It's more that I wish people would stop all the "blah blah blah" about it and actually do something about it, one way or the other.

Oh, and I really don't care what othe countries are paying. Honestly? Aside from the European countries that are so small you can travel across your own country and two or three others on 1 tank of gas, get to work by walking or riding a bike and not have to drive, basically, to get where you're going, their situation is not like ours other than they have to fork over some heavy cash to drive. But the way I see it, for them it's a luxury. For us, as some have said already, driving has become an integral part to our daily lives that we really have no idea of how to survive without our vehicles. It's not a luxury anymore, but a necessity in most cases.

So, is that what I'm seeing? Just get over it, become complacent, suck it up and go with the flow? Agree that there is nothing we can do and just buy a crappy car that gets triple digit mileage, even if it's ugly and a deathtrap? Anything, so long as we don't tread on the government, or the oil companies toes? Seems kind of strange coming from a people who pride themselves on going "against the flow" and being world changers. Or is that all just rhetoric as well?

LostCause
06-09-2008, 11:45 AM
Viking wins....

DFSniper
06-09-2008, 01:45 PM
Agree that there is nothing we can do and just buy a crappy car that gets triple digit mileage, even if it's ugly and a deathtrap? Anything, so long as we don't tread on the government, or the oil companies toes? Seems kind of strange coming from a people who pride themselves on going "against the flow" and being world changers. Or is that all just rhetoric as well?

for the first part: The Car Vike Pretty Much Described (http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/No_Chance_For_American_Lupo.S173.A6167.html)
its ugly too. one of the ugliest cars i've ever seen in person...

for the second part:
as much as i agree, i dont think we'll be able to turn the fight against high gas prices into another Civil Rights movement... the way i see it, gas is just a commodity that we need to survive, so unless someone in the government can find a way to effectively lower gas prices and get nationwide support, the people won't even bother trying to change it themselves.