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View Full Version : What would you change about paintball?


vikingshadow
05-24-2008, 07:21 AM
Well, every now and then, PBN comes up with a thread that seems to be worth passing around to other forums. I saw this one yesterday (though it appears to have been started about a year or so ago) and thought that it sparked some interesting debate, along with the same old stupid answers you get over there...

Last year, I had the "VS" threads (you remember the "this vs this" threads where I chose a certain subject, but then it got horribly overblown with everyone else jumping in with their own versions? Yeah, that's the one...) So I thought, what a great way to start off this summer...

So, here's the FIRST question I have for you this summer. What are the TWO things you would change about the current state of paintball.

Rules:

1. Debate is allowed. Arguing and flaming is not. P - E - R - I - O - D! I'm on vacation and don't want to deal with attitudes. (Get the picture? ;) )
2. List more than 2 things, and your post gets deleted. Continue to do it, and you get a vacation. This is supposed to inspire deep thought, not random whining.

Ok, on your mark........

get set ............

GO!

STRIKEFIRST
05-24-2008, 11:03 AM
1. The rate of fire. Semi auto is fine with me but I prefer under 12 bps...something to bring back skill. I used to call tourney ball a "chess game with guns". Now it's 300 gallons of paint in the air.

2. The gangster attitude of alot of people that play. This is a sport afterall and people seem to forget that. Sportsmanship is greatly lacking.

VS3 Sniper
05-24-2008, 11:27 AM
1. I wish all the HK/AGG kids would grow up and stop ruining the game for some of the old school players and the new kids that are coming to the sport.

2. If some of the pro players in our sport would try to set a better example for the newer ppl. If some of the pros would stop over shooting so badly all the lil kids wouldn't think it was cool to put 10 extra balls in someones back.

DirtySouth
05-24-2008, 11:33 AM
We can do this WITHOUT avoiding the swear filter. Try again.

Oh, for technicalities sake - consider this a warning!

Your friendly neighborhood mod squad!

SUNNYboi
05-24-2008, 11:56 AM
1. Allow rocking triggers since they don't make you shoot faster and its 1 shot 1 pull.
2. Also the only paint your taking to the field is whatever fits in your hopper. Makes the game a bit more stratigic, since you don't have enough paint to just unload on a bunker waiting for a guy to pop out.

I agree with STRIKEFIRST also.

SpyderMan723
05-24-2008, 12:25 PM
1.Prices of markers, accessories etc are wayyy too high.
2.I hate to say it but, we need paintball markers that DONT resemble real guns because that gives people ideas..Most people are good about realizing that its just a game, but there are some select few who will ruin it for all of us eventually and give the sport an even WORSE name.

spray and pray
05-24-2008, 12:49 PM
1. No more 12-14 year olds allowed at fields. I hate 99.9% of them because all they do is say "angel better".
2. Cheaper prices, I can understand a gun would be expensive but some paint these days are $70 a case......

OSOK
05-24-2008, 01:22 PM
1. Cost... I have to save up for paint...
2. Sportsman ship.. Cheating ext.

mr1 sniper
05-24-2008, 01:27 PM
1. Make paintball a bigger sport that more people know about so its easier to play more often.
2. Lower the cost of everything.

vikingshadow
05-24-2008, 01:29 PM
1. No more 12-14 year olds allowed at fields. I hate 99.9% of them because all they do is say "angel better".
2. Cheaper prices, I can understand a gun would be expensive but some paint these days are $70 a case......

Hahaha, everytime I showed up with a new gun at the field, one of the Noobs at the field would tell me, "Yeah, I'm gonna get an Angel!" Like it's the only high end gun out there...

I can't understand why the guns are so expensive. You can get an actual firearm for hundreds less. I don't even understand why the tanks are so expensive...

timmyshoota
05-24-2008, 01:36 PM
1. I wish all the HK/AGG kids would grow up and stop ruining the game for some of the old school players and the new kids that are coming to the sport.

2. If some of the pro players in our sport would try to set a better example for the newer ppl. If some of the pros would stop over shooting so badly all the lil kids wouldn't think it was cool to put 10 extra balls in someones back.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2682919

Read that link and don't call those people HK/agg kids again.

vikingshadow
05-24-2008, 01:39 PM
I believe he's talking about the Type A kids that were mentioned in that link - the ones that seem to be the majority, anymore. The idiots that don't have a clue about it but spout it like it's some kind of gang thing...

OSOK
05-24-2008, 01:47 PM
I play paintball with my friends and we are all 13-15. We mess around with each other and don't cheat. Yet when someone tells us we suck or something along those lines we just get more "competitive".

timmyshoota
05-24-2008, 01:47 PM
I believe he's talking about the Type A kids that were mentioned in that link - the ones that seem to be the majority, anymore. The idiots that don't have a clue about it but spout it like it's some kind of gang thing...

And they aren't real supporters. They are just idiots.

vikingshadow
05-24-2008, 01:58 PM
Yup - unfortunately they do make that group look bad even though they are idiots. That's the way it is in just about every group though.

nastystankweed
05-24-2008, 02:20 PM
1. The way people act: lack of sportsmanship, cheating, mean, cursing and beeing sore loosers. I tink that we paintball players have to change these aspects and let this sport grow and become mainstream. Thats what we all want regardless of wich "crew" we are from.

2. Why is everything so high priced???? It puts my brain in knots thinking that i payed 800 dollars for my pm8, 50 dollars for paint( Is paint really that expenssive to make). Are yoou kidding me??? Maybe thats why this sport isnt growing.Not everyone is as fortunate as me(thank god) and cant play, why cant we lower prices and change it??? Its for the greater good anyway, so why not(if they lowered prices alittle bit, call it 5-10%).

OSOK
05-24-2008, 02:37 PM
Here is a How It's Made for Paintballs.
How It's Made (http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-mwgwoyFGc)

Jegger24
05-24-2008, 03:01 PM
1. Price. We can all grumble about it being an expensive hobby... well worth it though! :D

2. The term of paintball GUN. It is a paintball MARKER. I don't like classifying it as a gun... it is one of my annoyances hearing people call them guns.

SUNNYboi
05-24-2008, 03:28 PM
When is a hobby cheap?

STRIKEFIRST
05-24-2008, 03:30 PM
When is a hobby cheap?

Bird Watching.

nastystankweed
05-24-2008, 03:50 PM
deffinetly worth it, best sport out there I think. I wouldnt call it a hobby though. I still dont get why paint is so expensive.

SUNNYboi
05-24-2008, 05:05 PM
Bird Watching.

I was thinking the same thing. What's a pair of binoculars worth? lol

applesauce
05-24-2008, 05:32 PM
I was thinking the same thing. What's a pair of binoculars worth? lol


nice ones are very exspensive....but its a one time cost...

irishwarrior
05-24-2008, 06:01 PM
1. Decrease the cost of mods and HPA tanks.

2. Disuse of the term "agg". Really gets on my nerves, probably because of it's connotations with the afore mentioned idiots

slim and shady
05-24-2008, 07:14 PM
If I could change absolutly anything about the game it we have to be some unwriten rule someplace that said if you want to play you have to buy your own gear, that means you and NOT YOUR PARENTS. I beleive that would revolutionize(SP) the game, it would deffinatly get rid of the attitude, lack of respect, and the know everything attitude that seems to come with that new gat your parents just shelled out a good wad of cash for.

Just my .02 cents

irishwarrior
05-25-2008, 04:04 AM
:yeahthat: Well put.

Critical
05-25-2008, 06:07 AM
See, I don't have a problem with parents buying kids their gear. It is entirely reasonable that the parent might show appreciation for the kids hard work in school, help around the house, etc., by buying their gear. How many 14 year olds can afford this sport on their own? Not many at all. I do think that there is a problem with the attitudes of many of the kids (and far too many of the "adults") with the gangster mentality. However, when you think about it, this is a sport that rewards aggressiveness and playing at the limits. You can not remove mental attitudes without also removing that aggressiveness. We obviously don't want to be playing with a bunch of milquetoasts, what fun would anyone have. It is inherent that paintball attracts type A personalities. Instead of complaining about the agg stuff, find out what your issue with them is. Is it because they beat you? Then get better, come back and beat them. On the field. Or, is it because you don't like their cockiness/language/whatever? Guess what? They probably think you have issues too.

As far as decreasing costs, it's a good idea, but just like gasoline, you have to look at the behind the scenes things to see why it costs what it does. Paintball has become a multi-billion dollar industry. Many here have been excited to see paintball on TV, or get positive national press, and have bigger and better tournaments. Guess what? That costs money. Manufacturers want to be out there getting their product noticed, so they sponsor teams, tournaments, etc., the cost of which is built into their products.

Finally. We shoot guns. I'm sorry if that offends people. A paintball "marker" shoots a projectile from a barrel by means of an accelerant. That makes it a gun. Just look at the case where those kids shot a cop on a traffic stop with a paintball "marker," look at the charges they are now facing. If you want to call it a marker to make yourself feel better, that's fine, but paintball started as "the survival game" and was marketed as hunting people.

Anyway, enough debate (I'm probably walking the line anyway), here's the things I would change:
1. Since it has been proved that paintball is safer to play, in terms of serious injury, than even golf. I'd like to see the insurance rates come down. This would help more fields open, or more fields stay in business in some cases.

2. Quit *****ing about what company X did to company Y. Paintball is, again, a multi-billion dollar industry. It's business. No one really cares that you've been playing for 25 years and that you shot Mr. Nelson in the ass. Really, we don't give a damn. It matters not in the business that paintball has become, if you're going to do that, just retire and sit in your rocking chair and reminisce about the old days. In order for paintball to survive as an industry, it's going to have to act like a business. That means, just like on the field, the aggressive win, the passive/naive lose. Paintball is the biggest business to have it's head jammed firmly up it's rear end that I've ever seen. How could it have gotten to that point that it's open war between fanboys of various companies for their business practices. The originators thought that everyone would just get along, would share technology and ideas and all that sort of thing? Please, as soon as one company figured out that money could be made, this was inevitable. So please, quit *****ing, no one cares.

nastystankweed
05-25-2008, 06:19 AM
very well said critical

etrain
05-25-2008, 07:26 AM
1) Open more feilds! i live in Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada and we only have like 1 feild and they over charge so much they want 55 dollars plus tax for whitebox paint:| and my local paintball store over charges SO much.

2) Websites that dont Update there websites ive tried now 3 times to order a tournamet clothes package and all 3 times they were all out and they dont know when their going to get more in. I waste my time placing orders just to find out that they're all out it makes me so mad. - if you know of a website that has paintball clothes for really cheap or has packages LET ME KNOW PLEASE!!!!!!!! either P.M me or write a post on my thread - Jersey Size

xsvly-fat
05-25-2008, 09:32 AM
The price, it's expensive to play. Also if I could change the way those cocky kids acted I would but their's no changing that =(

VS3 Sniper
05-25-2008, 12:46 PM
Timmyshoota - I wasn't refering to the actual fans of HK. I was referring to the 99% of the 'fake' HK fans that I have met.

Also I agree that the price that we pay for our sport is way to high.

malJohann
05-27-2008, 03:01 AM
1. Smart Parts' top management structure.

2. Create standards within paintball for barrel threads. There's standard threading for bottles, so why not barrels?

TheDarkShadow
05-27-2008, 03:37 AM
1. price
2.ramping, I find it to be a kind of cheating. I think you should be able to shoot as fast as your fingers move w/o the help of ramping

battlechaser
05-27-2008, 01:28 PM
1) I'd find a way to do paid (as in they pay me) product trials for all major pb companies. :)
2) Try and take over the world.

On a more serious note:

1) I have to agree with everyone on the price. My biggest pet peeve is the fields that have already horrendous pricing during the week, then mark everything up 75% once Saturday rolls around. :mad:

2) Not much else, attitudes are always going to be there. That's why you make a point of picking off those players early in the game. ;)

EyeMaster
05-29-2008, 08:02 PM
Funny everyone complains about the price. I guess it's all demographics.

Cost to play 2 hours indoors: 35$ + tax, you get your rental equipment, 200 balls and 2 hours of play. Not expensive, not cheap either, small area. Probably end up buying more paint because you wasted that 200 balls in the first 20 minutes.

Cost of play for a whole day, woodsball. Total play of 2 hours, maybe more (10h am - 4h pm where I go, lots of walking, many awesome fields and scenario plays) about 150$, maybe more, and you get about 1000 - 2000 balls, can easily spend 1500 balls if you're a rookie like me.

So yeah, spending 200$ in a day, if you feel like it, to play paintball is expensive, but compare it to other hobbies...

Computer gamer? 1000$ and more for a computer every few years + 60$ a game x 4 times a year (conservative).

Snowboarding? 600-1000$ for snowboard equipment every few years, 60$ for a day pass at a nice mountain. Gas and lodging if you have to, it mounts up.

One day at the race track with my car: Price of car... :P 2000$ for tires and brakes that will last 1-2 years (track only parts), 100$ in gas for the day, food, 300$ to just pay for the event, hotel for the night if you don't want to travel at 5h in the morning...

Life is expensive. You learn to deal with it. Yes it's expensive, wether you're 14 or 31 like me, but you deal with it. Companies want to run a profit, and I wouldn't say that paintball is as popular as other sports, like hockey (I'm in Canada afterall) and such, how many parents put their kids through hockey? Heck, that's expensive. But you don't see parents putting their 10 year olds in paintball teams.

I got my RS, mask, co2 tank and pods / belt for 300$ and I find that pretty cheap. It's cheap compared to my other hobbies anyway!

A paintball gun is almost the exact tech principles as a 9mm pistol or m16, and prices reflect that. You can buy a cheap hand gun, or paintball gun for 75$, or you can buy the 2000$ ones.


Oh, and after all that, I forgot to add what I would change.

I'd like "Deathmatch" style of play, team or not. Just like in computer games. Run around, shoot others, if shot, go to starting point and keep going, no waiting or anything like that.

I do love where I go for woods ball, they have this mock city made with plywood, and one of the scenario plays is exactly like Counter Strike, plant the bomb / stop the T's or defuse the bomb. Awesome!

vikingshadow
05-30-2008, 05:16 AM
Most fields set up different kinds of games, depending on what their customers want. At our field several years ago, we used to play this "Deathmatch" game you mentioned, but we called it the "Ironman". What we would do is play the game, but when you got shot, you went back to the staging area and the other team got a tally mark. Then you reinserted yourself back at the starting point.

My two points are actually something I was very much against a few years ago as I liked being "elitist" - meaning there weren't many people in our part of our state that played. However, since our field closed down and I haven't played since it's too expensive to drive 3 hours just to play, I've rethought my priorities as far as this game is concerned.

1. I'd like to see a concerted effort made by the various paintball companies to stop catering so much to the tournament player (though that's what I am) and start focusing on making the sport more attractive to then NON paintball player, i.e. parents, businessmen, etc. Not the rec player, but the non playing people. Advertising in magazines, television, etc. and making it stop looking so militaristic and gangster. (Ever notice it's billed as either those to things and never just a game?) Maybe even push to get it in more schools. I believe the more the word of the GAME is spread, the more likely it will be that local areas such as my own will be able to maintain and support a field.

Of course, things like statistics, paintball playing safety, marker maintenance, etc. could be stressed to those NOT playing and they could help teach and guide younger players like they do in other sports (baseball, softball, basketball, football, etc..) Once things get more public, then I believe that the added STEADY stream of players could drive market prices down, in my fantasy world at least.

2. Player attitude. I don't mean the "Win at all costs" attitude. In ALL competitive sports you see that attitude. I mean the "Kill everyone," "I'm a gangsta-wannabe," "Sto0pid no0bs", "I hate you" attitude it seems that has developed over the past 2-3 years. Seriously, the game was MUCH more fun for everyone back before this attitude showed up.

Sportsmanship is SERIOUSLY lacking in this sport these days. Give major penalties (DQs, fines, etc) for those cussing at refs and other teams, throwing equipment, blatantly breaking rules and so on. Not cheating, because when people get caught doing that they already get penalized just like in other sports. It's going to take the officials and those in charge of fields and tournaments to grow a sack and get tough, even though they may lose money initially. My example is of a tournament in OKC recently where players were actually throwing racial slurs at another team after a game because they lost (poor sportsmanship at it's finest) and nothing was done about it. That team ended up taking sixth place by just a few points over a team that was very sportsmanlike. It was even said in the captains meeting that cussing and such were grounds for DQ but nothing happened. That same team got away with it although EVERYONE in the audience and all the teams heard it - and that team is still playing the same way. This is the crap that needs to be taken care of right off the bat.

calebh
05-30-2008, 06:42 AM
quit *****ing about price. yeah, it's expensive. it used to be much, much worse. we have it easy now. when i started playing just 4 1/2 years ago, there was no mid-end. markers basically jumped in price from $200 to $1000+ with very little in between (basic shockers, imps, bkos, and low-end cockers basically.). and you could expect to spend $1500 or more on a true high-end marker. i may hate the ion, but it pretty much created the whole mid-end market, offering a whole new level of play that people couldn't afford, but now can. paint used to be $150 a case. price came down with faster markers. (i don't actually remember that. that was before my time. lol)

if you want to play without a huge cost, change your playing style. simply shooting less is the fastest way. i bought a phantom and can now play for a fraction of what i used to. i'm a college student, btw, and thus have little money, but i won't give up the game.

as for what i would change, we need better sportsmanship. not just on the tournament field, but all around the game. and off the field. nothing can ruin an otherwise great day of recball like some douchebag throwing a fit. (maybe a bad thunderstorm... lol) and off the field, when people know you play, but you're a douche, you have zero chance of introducing them to the game. they might get a bad image of the sport just imagining how you would act on the field.

secondly, get rid of ramping, at least outside of professional tournaments. as safe as paintball is, it requires a certain level of attention and control over yourself and your gear to keep it that way. imo, ramping takes too much control of the trigger away from you and puts it in the hands of an electronic board that can't see what it's shooting, where it's shooting, or what's happening around it. those extra couple of balls that leave the barrel after you've stopped pulling the trigger could be the extra couple of balls that leave someone injured. i know that's an extreme example, but it still scares the hell outta me, especially when i think about all the kids that now have ridiculous ramping modes to play with. (get rid of ramping, you shoot less and spend less, too ;) )

EyeMaster
05-30-2008, 09:21 AM
I don't even know what Ramping means... is it the Burst mode I have on my RS?

bamf-hacker
05-30-2008, 09:45 AM
What would I change about paintball????

Hard one Vike.

1. I would make it that any field with newer, or younger players where on that the markers must be on semi only with a tourney lock on. Lots of fields require semi only for insurance reasons, but have no way of stopping the new quick change boards. You could chrono on semi then walk away from the station and have your gun on ramp in no time with no tools. Unfortunately it happens. For those of us that have been playing for a while getting hit 10-15 times is not going to keep us from playing again, but a new player that is out for their first PB experience gets hit like that we might have just lost one more player. Face it we need all the players we can get, or sport is dieing out.

2. has to do with message boards that have to do with PB. I am a Mod on a few of them so I get to see a lot and one thing that I think needs change is the information that gets passed along to players. If you are just talking from opinion, by all means post, but say this is just my opinion. Let me give you an example: On a different forum I Moderate on a user posted a question about the difference between the Freak Jr. back and the Freak back. There were lots of answers but the one that really got to me was the user that, very matter of fact, posted Freak barrels are the loudest barrels, it makes your marker sound like a shotgun. Of course I posted that the back has nothing to do with sound signature and it turned into a hole back and forth about sound of barrels with lots of wrong info.

What am I getting at, post, please do that is what keeps these forums going. But when you do post facts not fiction. Remember those new players, we were all them at one time, they read these posts and will believe what they read because your join date was 5 years ago or you have 500000 posts. If they get bad info and go to a field for the first time and say "I don't use a Freak back because the sound it makes is like a shotgun" you know there will be those "to good for it all" types that will make fun of them and guess what, we just lost another player.

So I guess my two changes are the same.... KEEP NEW PLAYERS PLAYING TO HELP THE SPORT CONTINUE!!!

Wow I feel like Vike that was a lot of typing :)

spyderfan4271
05-31-2008, 07:15 PM
1. The rate of fire. Semi auto is fine with me but I prefer under 12 bps...something to bring back skill. I used to call tourney ball a "chess game with guns". Now it's 300 gallons of paint in the air.

2. The gangster attitude of alot of people that play. This is a sport afterall and people seem to forget that. Sportsmanship is greatly lacking.

I agree with strikefirst. Paint is cheaper then ever but, most people are using alot more of it. So many people confuse rate of fire as skill, when it's just spray and pray. It's difficult to get people into this sport when you start adding up field fees, cost of paint and rental fees if needed. The fields around me are about $15 field and $40 a case. It stinks if you get someone to come out and try paintball and they get lit up by a field regular shooting 25bps. As for the attitude why is it at first glance you are worthless unless you are holding an angel, etek or a dm7. There is no wonder why you start hearing about more players getting back into pump markers.

d12pncakethief
07-17-2008, 07:12 PM
1. at some fields dont charge over 50 dollars for 2000 paintballs
2.befor a little kid plays shoot him once from 3-4 feet away to see if he takes the pain.(under parental consent of course)

bigred76
07-17-2008, 10:45 PM
From 3-4 feet? You sir, are a **** if you want them to go through that. A little kid should not have to deal with that, even on the field. If you are one of the ones bunkering them, think about yourself and think about what little sadistic pleasure you get out of hurting littler people. Grow up.

VicReschke0626
07-18-2008, 11:37 AM
Yeah, bunkering new players, OF ANY AGE. Is terrible for the sport. On the private field my friends and I play on, we have an unwritten "girlfriend rule". Named that because it was first thought up to keep from having girlfriends get over shot and then hate the sport we all love. The rule simple states, anybody who doesn't, or has never performed a bunkering move themselves (new players, young players, inexperienced players, timid female players, basically anybody that's doesn't own their own gun) can not be shot more than twice on a bunkering move or the bunker-er??'s team automatically loses and the bunkeree's team is awarded the win. Twice. No exceptions. We don't play ramping, we play semi only. 3 or more shots are not needed, many times these players do not see the bunkering coming, so it should take no more than 2 shots to mark them once.

That being said, we also have the allowance that if it me and my best friend who have both been playing for a number of years, are bunkering each other, the gloves are off. If the bunkeree returns fire on the bunkerer there is no 2 shot over shoot rule, it's all on the two people in the firefight. Once an elimination is called, the shootout is over with. Anybody who shoots a player after calling hit (aside from accidentally popping a few shots towards somebody walking off the feild, that happens, it's just a reaction sometimes) is eliminated also. If they game was down to 1 on 1, the game ends in a draw.
99% of the time the bunkeree marks the bunkerer anyways (unless they don't see it coming at all), in which case marked players are eliminated, we don't bother arguing who shot who first, we don't care. You are both shot, you are both out. It's a 1 for 1 trade out.

Our basic standpoint is that nobody wins when they over shoot. And our rules reflect that very literally. All of our games are amongst friends and we have no ambitions of hurting each other, or pushing somebody away from the sport.

spyderfan4271
07-19-2008, 11:57 AM
I wish more players had a girlfriend rule. I know this guy who considers himself a tournament level player. He always shoots in ramping mode 3 pods and a hopper a game even against new players. When I play new players I'm in semi-auto mode or shooting a old mechanical. I try to get close enough to aim for just there hoppers.