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View Full Version : Just how well do you know your kids??


MR2 Woodsballer
04-03-2008, 08:34 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23905909/

durrell
04-03-2008, 09:14 AM
Wow..how things have changed since I was in elementary school.

vikingshadow
04-03-2008, 10:28 AM
You know, this doesn't surprise many teachers. We have kids as early as Kindergarten and 1st grade in our own school cussing out teachers and getting kicked out for fighting. Not kidding in the least!

Teachers for years warned administrators and parents about these types of going's on, and obviously this is quite a big story now that the news has found out about it :rolleyes:, but we just snort about it and say, "Yeah? You're kidding.....yawn. What day was this again?" It's more common than anyone lets on because we know nothing is going to get done about it from the higher ups. Now, granted, this was quite extreme, but what shocks us the most is that they were girls. Normally, it's the boys that engage in this type of thing.

I have a 5th grade boy this year who drew a picture of him shooting a teacher in the head (Even labeled it!), got called into the office for it and said there was no signature on it so it wasn't his. (He's the only one that sits in that desk and we found it right after he had had an argument with that particular teacher. No, it wasn't me, haha!) He got suspended, moved to Kentucky, came back a month later and was put back on our team again, just in a different home base. Now, isn't that a hoot?

Until the school system backs up their teachers BEFORE these incidents happen, and allow teachers to do what they KNOW needs to be done, then supports their employees by enforcing it - effectively telling parents and the ACLU to back off and let us do our thing (within reason, of course) this stuff is going to be commonplace at ALL levels.

Sorry for the long post.

/rant

HelpDeskHustler
04-03-2008, 12:52 PM
Almost all psychologists agree that the brain isn't developed enough at their age for children to plot revenge a long period away without showing signs of lesser aggression first. IMO there's more to this story. No doubt in my mind we'll also hear from Jack Thomson about this one.

MR2 Woodsballer
04-03-2008, 01:08 PM
Honestly IMO I think their parents are partly to blame. Someone hasnt been montering what their kids have been watching on tv. Not saying the tv is to blame but I am saying that anyone can go through the computer or the tv settings and set parental controlls. How else would they have thought to bring gloves assign ppl to cover windows, clean up ECT.

MVS1
04-03-2008, 01:24 PM
Good ol' fashioned ass whooping once in a while is a great deterrent. Since my wife homeschools the kids that makes me the principal. They piss the teacher off and I get an earfull of it when I get home from work and it's a bad day for them.

HelpDeskHustler
04-03-2008, 01:52 PM
Media is always to blame, simply because of it's ambiguity. Everything you take in is media. Humans without media are instinctual survivors, we seek the mother's breast for milk, and we involuntarily work our muscles and absorb nutrients, as a child, we observe our environment and adapt a very "monkey see, monkey do" mentality until our brains begin to form an entire set of reactions to given circumstances. Nearly everything we do is because of media.

Television and Video Games are the scapegoat in society. In reality, I think the true problem lies in our consumerist economy. Because of consumerism, media tells children that their comfort is something of importance, when in the spectrum of things, it really doesn't matter a whole lot. Companies who agree with you are much more marketable, and saying that a child's trivial needs are actually "super duper important" just makes them selfish little pricks, who *allegedly would* get pissed over being told to get off a desk to the point where in extreme cases they *allegedly would* plot to kill a teacher.

MR2 Woodsballer
04-03-2008, 02:55 PM
I didnt say that tv was to blame, I did say that tv moderation was. More and more parents today take less time to nuture and spend time with children. Most just plop their kids down in front of the tv for hours, that way they done have to deal with them.

vikingshadow
04-03-2008, 03:04 PM
I think we're honestly creating a society of soft, whiny, unable to deal with problems and future stressed-out maniacs, personally. We give them 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 10th chances to do a simple task. "Didn't do your homework? That's ok, turn it in tomorrow!"

Then, instead of teaching them to deal with problems, we adults have decided somewhere along the line that we'll handle the problems for them. "Johnny called you a *****? Well, we'll go take care of that right now! That's 'bullying' and we won't stand for it!" snicker snicker - riiiggghhhttt!

Finally, we've started teaching the kids that even adults aren't immune from them. "You're sad because the teacher spoke to you harshly for kicking someone? Let's go talk to the counselor! Maybe your parents should come up as well and we'll have a big meeting about it!" (been there, done that! Worst meeting I've ever been a part of.)

I really think that the children, though to blame at first, are unwittingly being taught that they can do what they want, when they want and they'll get away with it because A. we adults do get tired after awhile of the constant whining and complaining, and it's just easier to give in, and B. because somewhere, they've learned this term: their feelings (read "rights") are being squashed. Throw in what they see on television in the news, movies, video games (yes, I believe this is a culprit as well - you should listen to the kids at school sometime. All they can talk about at times. I mentioned that maybe we could do some detention if the students didn't get quiet in the hall, and one kid -very into video games - said, "Or we can shoot them in the knees! That's what we do in COD4!") Heaven forbid that the parent teach them how to handle this the correct way, or even worse, if the parent isn't doing it the teacher try to do it!

When I was growing up, the parents and teachers would make us work our own problems out. "Someone called you a name? Whatcha gonna do about it? Oh, and you better make the right decision, buck-o!" "If you get in trouble at school, you'll get it twice as hard at home! I don't care who is right or wrong!" Ah, the good ol' days of multi butt whoopings! First the principal or teacher, then mom, then dad because mom had to get physical.

Back in those days, if there were a fight between two or more students, I KNOW (from talking to the old timer teachers from back in the day confirming my own suspicions) that they let those fights go on for a bit before they broke them up. Usually until someone fell down, hehe! I had a coach who would get the two angry students in the center circle of the basketball court and tell them to go at it. Of course, they never did because they realized how stupid it was! Then the coach would actually get PISSED OFF for wasting his time and making him do this! But, lesson learned - no one was going to solve your problem for you.

Shoot, I remember getting swatted by the neighbor lady because I threw a rock at a cat once. It wasn't even her cat! (T'wasn't mine, either! :p) You won't see that happen these days...

We definitely can't let them fight anymore because they simply don't know how. The only way they see fights anymore are the UMA, the MMA, in movies and in video games - they aren't skilled enough to do the Ultimate Fighter stuff, so yes, weapons are a must to them.

So what is the answer? Shoot, I don't have a clue except to keep my back away from them at ALL times!

tl;dr:

I think we're honestly creating a society of soft, whiny, unable to deal with problems and future stressed-out maniacs, personally. We give them 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 10th chances to do a simple task. "Didn't do your homework? That's ok, turn it in tomorrow!"

Then, instead of teaching them to deal with problems, we adults have decided somewhere along the line that we'll handle the problems for them. "Johnny called you a *****? Well, we'll go take care of that right now! That's 'bullying' and we won't stand for it!" snicker snicker - riiiggghhhttt!

Finally, we've started teaching the kids that even adults aren't immune from them. "You're sad because the teacher spoke to you harshly for kicking someone? Let's go talk to the counselor! Maybe your parents should come up as well and we'll have a big meeting about it!" (been there, done that! Worst meeting I've ever been a part of.)

I really think that the children, though to blame at first, are unwittingly being taught that they can do what they want, when they want and they'll get away with it because A. we adults do get tired after awhile of the constant whining and complaining, and it's just easier to give in, and B. because somewhere, they've learned this term: their feelings (read "rights") are being squashed. Throw in what they see on television in the news, movies, video games (yes, I believe this is a culprit as well - you should listen to the kids at school sometime. All they can talk about at times. I mentioned that maybe we could do some detention if the students didn't get quiet in the hall, and one kid -very into video games - said, "Or we can shoot them in the knees! That's what we do in COD4!") Heaven forbid that the parent teach them how to handle this the correct way, or even worse, if the parent isn't doing it the teacher try to do it!

When I was growing up, the parents and teachers would make us work our own problems out. "Someone called you a name? Whatcha gonna do about it? Oh, and you better make the right decision, buck-o!" "If you get in trouble at school, you'll get it twice as hard at home! I don't care who is right or wrong!" Ah, the good ol' days of multi butt whoopings! First the principal or teacher, then mom, then dad because mom had to get physical.

Back in those days, if there were a fight between two or more students, I KNOW (from talking to the old timer teachers from back in the day confirming my own suspicions) that they let those fights go on for a bit before they broke them up. Usually until someone fell down, hehe! I had a coach who would get the two angry students in the center circle of the basketball court and tell them to go at it. Of course, they never did because they realized how stupid it was! Then the coach would actually get PISSED OFF for wasting his time and making him do this! But, lesson learned - no one was going to solve your problem for you.

Shoot, I remember getting swatted by the neighbor lady because I threw a rock at a cat once. It wasn't even her cat! (T'wasn't mine, either! :p) You won't see that happen these days...

We definitely can't let them fight anymore because they simply don't know how. The only way they see fights anymore are the UMA, the MMA, in movies and in video games - they aren't skilled enough to do the Ultimate Fighter stuff, so yes, weapons are a must to them.

So what is the answer? Shoot, I don't have a clue except to keep my back away from them at ALL times!

Next time, quit complaining and just read the first one, lazy ass! :devil:

vikingshadow
04-03-2008, 03:04 PM
hehe - it's the return of the novel. Been about a year since I wrote like that!

DFSniper
04-03-2008, 03:09 PM
wow vike!!!

i agree with claus and all of vikes posts on this one... not much left for me to add.

HelpDeskHustler
04-03-2008, 03:39 PM
I'll be honest... I read(am still reading) the TLDR :dodgy:

And I'll be honest again... I'm completely cold when it comes to this subject. If parents aren't effective enough or are too inconsistent, I think we had better start making boarding schools. It's time that we give these kids some actual rights and stop allowing the freedoms of their parents to interfere with their potential.

I propose a year-round, (full)break-free school based around education research where the teachers are assistants to a professor who researches education technologies by studying the children's retention of knowledge under different teaching techniques. The school's goals should be to provide the best education that is feasible, and the widest variety of education. It should work to make the application of education palpable to students and progress noticeable by parents and other institutions.

irishwarrior
04-03-2008, 04:16 PM
I'm sorry man, but I'm in 9th grade and I know I couldn't survive year-round, no-break school. I would either crack from being around people constantly and end up a hermit living in a cave or I would bust out of the school to escape the pressure.

HelpDeskHustler
04-03-2008, 04:41 PM
Trust me, I know that nearly every student now, including myself, would be unable to stand my system. That isn't because the system is flawed, it's because of the way we were raised. One of the most basic methods of getting better at anything is to practice early and practice often. Brain development and education is no different, why treat it differently simply because we assume they can't handle it, because we can't. We don't want education to reach a plateau, we should strive to make our children better than ourselves from what we have learned, not more comfortable than ourselves. Our children (will) have never lived our life, they will have nothing to compare their workload to, and to them it will be just as arduous in the long run as our workload is(/will have been) for us. Life and the time span you have to make a lasting effect in a children's education is too short, we need to get kids in a program instantly if we want progress.

irishwarrior
04-03-2008, 05:00 PM
I see what you're getting at. That's actually not too bad of an idea.

vikingshadow
04-03-2008, 05:27 PM
I always thought that I would prefer a full year school, but go for 2-3 months, then have a week or two off. Then when you come back, start on the next phase of a predetermined, set educational plan. Two more months, than two more weeks off. Follow this pattern all year long - still the same amount of time off as usual, but now you're much more consistant and there's not 3 month period where students are going stagnate not even thinking about school.

Personally, as an adult, summer vacations are great up until about the 5 week. Then it gets boooorrrriinnngggg....I'd just as soon be in the classroom!

bamf-hacker
04-03-2008, 05:51 PM
sorry for the off topic post but WOW Vike.

You posted 1722 words in this thread :)

OK carry on.

DFSniper
04-03-2008, 05:54 PM
I always thought that I would prefer a full year school, but go for 2-3 months, then have a week or two off. Then when you come back, start on the next phase of a predetermined, set educational plan. Two more months, than two more weeks off. Follow this pattern all year long - still the same amount of time off as usual, but now you're much more consistant and there's not 3 month period where students are going stagnate not even thinking about school.

i went to a year round school in 6th grade and hated it. 7 weeks of school, 2 weeks off, x4 quarters, and then 5 or 7 weeks off in summer.

king-man
04-03-2008, 06:00 PM
I'm sorry man, but I'm in 9th grade and I know I couldn't survive year-round, no-break school. I would either crack from being around people constantly and end up a hermit living in a cave or I would bust out of the school to escape the pressure.
^^^^me to, but if i went to the cave i would have to bring my gun and alot of oil, allen wrenches, a microwave, alot of hot pockets, and most importantly an air hose that stretched about 50 miles to the scuba place, o and some paint, and proabaly a big tankard filled with mello yello, that would be my paradise, hell go ahead and bring the year round, ill start packing:D

vikingshadow
04-03-2008, 06:24 PM
sorry for the off topic post but WOW Vike.

You posted 1722 words in this thread :)

OK carry on.

It's been awhile since I've done that. It's like going to Chuckie Cheeses, and winning tickets for 6 months - I had to cash them in, haha! :D

I have a lot of opinions on this topic, unfortunately...:(

HelpDeskHustler
04-03-2008, 06:34 PM
I'm not talking traditional year-round school. I'm talking like legitimate year round school. Occasionally there will be like a day off, but this would be serious business, the more breaks you give, the more chances you offer for regression or the last topic discussed to not stick like it should.

cyberthrasher_706
04-03-2008, 07:51 PM
Well, I have to agree with Vike, even though I just skimmed it (just got off work and didn't feel like reading it all). While reading it one thing did come to mind regarding parents involvement. I think it's important for the parents to take an active role in the settling of childhood disputes, but not to do it for them. There was an instance a while back where one of my neighbors had told me that another neighbor that I had never met wanted to speak with me about my son kicking his daughter in the stomach at school. We spoke with the dad, found out that his daughter had warned him about getting angry toward us and violent (which he wouldn't have, just probably threatened it out of anger) because of me. Her words were "dad, you don't want to start anything. Do you know who his dad is!!?" Needless to say I kinda have a reputation for being a mean prick and I'm a huge biker so that doesn't help much. Back to the point. We talked to him, found out his side of the story from what his daughter had told him, went and talked to our son and got his side of it, than put them both in the same room together to talk it out with all of us adults as mediators. Now they're really close friends and we can hardly pry them apart. The main source of the problem turned out to be another kid in our complex who fits the description of the parentless troublemaker who's going to jail soon. He actually told our son that he doesn't have to listen to us and that he can go ahead and do whatever he wants and steal from us if he wants to, etc..... I'm sure you guys can imagine. My point is problems between kids can be solved with parental intervention as long as the parents aren't just out for revenge and justice. The point is to teach our children how to be responsible adults and to give them the tools to do it without anger and violence. Hell, if I can do it with our son (I'm his step father and his real father is a violent drug addict that encouraged him to hit his mother and sister and break the law) than you can do it with any kid if it's done right. Everyone's situation is different though so I'm not saying I'm completely right and others are wrong.

I also have something to say about the media aspect and the fact that everything they learn is from the media. Humans are trained from a very young age through a system of "filters" that teach us how to view the world around us. These filters are built up from our parents influence's, religions, cultural background, education, everything. My point is, due to these environmental filters that make us who we are, two kids can watch the same thing and experience the same things in life and both of them will end up different because of their view of it all from behind these filters. That's why some kids can watch tv and see fantasy where others see the real world. Just some rambling thoughts.

In regards to the issue at hand, I don't think they should let the kids off at all. If they had the mentality to plan it in depth like this than they had the mentality to do it. Like my wife said when she read it, "they were obviously smart enough to know that they weren't big enough to do it alone, that's why they had a group of them doing it so they would me more likely to succeed." In the article they said that most kids wouldn't act on anger that long after the fact but these kids were armed and ready with a battle plan. If these kids are let off than it will set a terrible precidense [sp?] for all cases of school violence. OK, I'm done with my rant now.