PDA

View Full Version : Vs3 Being Funky


deano 177
03-20-2008, 10:22 AM
I took my marker out this weekend and was having some issues with it. I thought it might be the tank at first. I went in last night to run the rest of the air out and when I was trying to shoot, the marker would not recock... I dabbed some oil on the dents and away I went. Glad I read the forums and thanks for that in the help topics.:p So the real problem is that when I have my psi set on 280 the marker will cycle about 3 times before I lose enough pressure and it will not recock(rapid fire style or 3 round burst). Both tanks act the same way and I had 3k psi in each. I think I am going to try to remove the filter disk out of the reg. I know that you guys say the stock reg is junk but is it good enough for just casual play? If I crank the pressure up to 300+ it seems to do fine but I can tell it is using more air and I had to crank the velocity adjustment all the way out. I was barely able to get it below 280 for play this weekend. What else do you guys think that it could be? Any thing else that I have missed?

king-man
03-20-2008, 01:57 PM
have you ever done anything to your valve? id not take it apart, and replace the oring on the pin and give it a small film of oil, then if not still, replace the two on the front block and the two on the valve , also put a little on the pin itself and run it through the part that it would normally to get some lube on the other oring, i was having about the same problem and i did this and it was fine

deano 177
03-20-2008, 04:09 PM
....
I have not really done anything to the valve. I was going to strip the marker down and give every thing the once over... I had just heard that it was good to take the filter out to help the air flow.

deano 177
03-21-2008, 07:25 PM
I totally stripped the marker down and gave it the once over. I also removed the filter. No change in pressure needed to make it work at lower psi.

bigred76
03-21-2008, 08:36 PM
Hmmm.... odd.... Oiling the detents is a bad idea, however, since the bolt IS delrin. It will swell the bolt if enough gets on it. I'd personally loosen up the detents a little bit or sand down that portion on the bolt instead of oiling the detents and risking swelling the bolt. If your bolt is swelling because of this, bring out the sandpaper and whittle it down whenever the bolt starts having issues, as when delrin starts swelling, it doesn't stop.

deano 177
03-22-2008, 06:40 PM
Hmmm.... odd.... Oiling the detents is a bad idea, however, since the bolt IS delrin. It will swell the bolt if enough gets on it. I'd personally loosen up the detents a little bit or sand down that portion on the bolt instead of oiling the detents and risking swelling the bolt. If your bolt is swelling because of this, bring out the sandpaper and whittle it down whenever the bolt starts having issues, as when delrin starts swelling, it doesn't stop.
That's funny. The other thread said to rub a little oil on the dents if they were sticking. I wouldn't think that this would be causing the increased psi deal, though.

king-man
03-22-2008, 07:17 PM
well in a way ur both right, delrin does swell but vs bolts have never been known to swell and actually come with lube on them, but if it did end up swelling then it would cause more friction and cause u too have too up the pressure, just get a Dremel and make the notches a lill bigger

deano 177
03-23-2008, 04:01 AM
well in a way ur both right, delrin does swell but vs bolts have never been known to swell and actually come with lube on them, but if it did end up swelling then it would cause more friction and cause u too have too up the pressure, just get a Dremel and make the notches a lill bigger
Ok, I'll look into that. I guess it wouldn't take that much to move it from 270psi to 300. That is not a lot. I guess the dents will wear a bit from play, too. I've only put about 6-8 K balls through it.

bigred76
03-23-2008, 12:59 PM
Sorry, I thought I had mentioned that. I was just building off your train of thought that the detents were causing friction on the bolt. In my experience, only a couple stock bolts have had detent slots that are big enough for the detents to be screwed in fully. Heck, even some aftermarket bolts have had some problems.

The bolt is advertised as a delrin bolt, so why isn't it swelling? That's the most rediculous thing I've ever heard, delrin not swelling with lube on it. Triflow is the only oil I'd get close to delrin! (Timmies) The factory is either using TriFlow, or they're NOT using delrin as advertised.

Tech Steve
03-24-2008, 12:44 PM
The newer style bolts have larger grooves for the ball detents, they have had these bolts for a while now, the bolt is delrin it just doesn't swell, oil causes the bolt to stick so people assume that it "swells", the only way for it to well is if you soaked it in oil and let it sit... try lubing your valve and lubing the regulator, that should do the trick...

deano 177
03-24-2008, 02:34 PM
I just find it funny that it has been working great for two months @ 250-270 psi and now it wont run on anything below 300 ish. One last thing before we put this to rest... would there be any difference in shooting compressed air versus nitrogen? I have never played with nitrogen until this past week. They had nitro because thier compressor was down. The usual place that I get fills has only compressed air so that is what I had been using until I went to this other field. Could that account for the extra 30 psi that I needed?

king-man
03-24-2008, 02:45 PM
Can you fire with a ball in the breach at a lower psi than 300

deano 177
03-25-2008, 11:29 AM
Can you fire with a ball in the breach at a lower psi than 300 no. It wouldn't recock. I'll get some more air this weekend and give a progress report.

king-man
03-25-2008, 06:12 PM
no. It wouldn't recock. I'll get some more air this weekend and give a progress report.

sweet, you might wanna take out the detents to make sure that thats not whats causing your psi probs dont put any pballs, in the there i know it sounds like a noob thing but cleaning paint off of everwhere isnt al that fun :dodgy:

EDIT just now thought about this but have you checked the reg and kept it lubed, that may be a problem, not recycling quik enough, just a thought

deano 177
03-25-2008, 07:16 PM
have you checked the reg and kept it lubed, that may be a problem, not recycling quik enough, just a thought

This has been my thinking all along. but it should get better with use, correct? I don't know:p I don't have any air right now so I can't tinker with it.

the bottom line is:

A) Would not recock after 3 shots of rapid fire, with or without balls, at less than 300psi and nitrogen. Single shots at about 1 ball a second would allow for recocking between shots.
B) Would recock with rapid fire, with or without balls, at 260+/- psi using compressed air
C) I have used oil in the reg from day one and I do upkeep on my marker after every day of use. I have since took out the filter on the reg but that didn't seem to change anything.

To me that sounds like a charging issue

king-man
03-25-2008, 07:23 PM
to mee it sounds liek either a reg or tank problem, true regs get better with use but after a while you got to start over, have you tried replacing the o rings in the reg?
EDIT: also as long as your not using co2 the filter is useless, its just there to filter out junk in co2

deano 177
03-25-2008, 09:26 PM
to mee it sounds liek either a reg or tank problem, true regs get better with use but after a while you got to start over, have you tried replacing the o rings in the reg?
EDIT: also as long as your not using co2 the filter is useless, its just there to filter out junk in co2 Well, I have never put CO2 in this marker and I have used two different tanks with the same results. So I guess the culprit must be the reg. I oiled it up good last time I shot it so I'll see if it works any different the next time out.

sciphan
03-25-2008, 10:35 PM
http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=15487

Read this post. many vs2's and vs3's have an issue with the detent grooves on the bolt not being milled properly. This can cause all sorts of headaches and unfortunately it is a difficult problem to diagnose unless you know what you are looking for.

deano 177
03-26-2008, 08:15 AM
http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=15487

Read this post. many vs2's and vs3's have an issue with the detent grooves on the bolt not being milled properly. This can cause all sorts of headaches and unfortunately it is a difficult problem to diagnose unless you know what you are looking for.
Thanks. I have seen that. I'm not sure that is what my problem is though.

deano 177
04-07-2008, 06:25 PM
So, I used the marker this weekend. Pretty much the same as before. When I got home, I did notice one of the dents was ripped off but I didn't chop any balls or anything. I was having some issues with recocking on the field durring a couple of games, so that could have been the culprit. I did the dremmel trick on the bolt but didn't really see any improvement on the psi. I dumped a junk load of oil in the reg. On the plus side my Halo worked really well and I didn't have to change the batteries at all. I even went out there tonight and it was still spinning strong. Rechargeable batts are cool but I have issues with them some times. I seem to remember that after a few games I used to turn the reg down and it would work great. I guess I thought that would go away but maybe not...

I guess the only real thing I can think of is that maybe the O.D. of the bolt has swollen slightly from some oil and maybe I need to sand it down. I seems to have a little tight fit right toward the end of it's movement. IDK. I'll try to work on it tomorrow...

king-man
04-08-2008, 01:44 PM
i know the problem, your gun doesnt like you! jk, sounds like it could be your bolt causing your probs from swelling

deano 177
04-09-2008, 03:40 PM
i know the problem, your gun doesnt like you! jk, sounds like it could be your bolt causing your probs from swellingWell, I don't think that it is as bad as all that!:p Should you be able to take the bolt out and push it in from the barrel end? How should it fit? Should it be tight or loose like it is when it goes in from the back. I guess what I am asking is: Does the top tube taper where the balls feed into the barrel? My bolt was extremely tight when I took it out and tried this(I was checking the dent tolarance).

king-man
04-10-2008, 04:37 AM
I think its the same throughout the whole tube, idk I'll check my bolt when I get home, have you ever lubes your bolt, more than once at least

deano 177
04-10-2008, 09:17 AM
Yea, I have lubed it. I keep it dry now and I just put a dab on the o-ring. I guess I need to get some silicone grease for it.

king-man
04-10-2008, 12:29 PM
you could have started some swelling, just once or twice wont do it but after that your prolly gonna see swelling, no matter what kind it is, its still delrin

deano 177
04-10-2008, 01:37 PM
right. Do you have a micrometer?
http://www.jandjmachine.com/images/micrometer.jpg

Could you measure your bolt?

king-man
04-11-2008, 04:42 AM
I probably have one some where but if you saw my pole barn you'd know why Im not sure, anyways, I but my bolt in bacwards and there was no friction, I'm really betting urs swole, but I'll look around and c if i can find a mm sum where to measure

deano 177
04-11-2008, 04:06 PM
rodger. I'll hit it with some more sand paper....

king-man
04-11-2008, 06:15 PM
mite contact faith, c if he has ne more acp bolts laying around ;)

deano 177
04-12-2008, 06:54 AM
I'm going to get a rail soon so I'm just gonna try to fix it as is.

king-man
04-12-2008, 08:06 AM
well at least your not getting a SP

deano 177
04-22-2008, 08:51 AM
Well, after all the things that I could have checked and done to try and fix this problem, it never occured to me (3-4 weeks later) that the striker o-ring might be letting air by. So, last night I was explaing the MR1 and how it works to my buddy whom I have just introduced to pb (he is already hooked:p ). I was teaching him how to clean it and care for the marker. Then I proceeded to tell him that 90% of the spyder problems come from not enough oil or that the striker o-ring goes bad.:tonofbricks: It was like I had an epiphany! Hmmm. Maybe that is what the VS3 needs.... I swapped the o-ring and lowered the pressure back down to 255-260. Walked the trigger just like when it was new. VS3 is happy again!:D

well at least your not getting a SP

What is that the pos ion? No way I would downgrade to that trash!:p
Oh and by the way the rail is out and the Mini is in. I should be getting it this week. I got to play with one this weekend and it was hot.