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View Full Version : using a regulator with HPA; whats the point ?


SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 08:18 AM
Here is the deal :

I have a MR2 running (attempting) on HPA. Its Pure Energy 68/4500 tank. Running a remote line from that to my marker. Marker has nothing fancy inside except a two-ring deltin bolt from Alamo City.

I thought having HPA would make my shots consistent but I was wrong. I still notice spikes 271- 312 !!!!

I posted on the MR2 threads and I was told the only thing I could do was add a regulator and High-Flow valve. I know from reading that there is a lot more to that than just addding those two components.

I then notice that some people are using regulators to stablize the problems.

Palmer stabilizers seem to do the trick.

BUT here is my question; these HPa tanks are set to output around 800psi right ? so why is there still spikes and How is adding a regulator that is also going to be set to 800psi going to help ?

What are the mechanics on work there ?

Hoppy11
03-12-2008, 09:15 AM
Yes there is regulator on all HPA tanks to regulate the output. Although when you are shooting through your gun the consistancy is lost through multiple different parts in your gun. The regulator on your gun, you mentioned the palmers, will regulate the flow of air directly into the valve portion of your gun with will give you much greater consistancy. If you go with a higher flowing valve than your stock one you will be able to lower the air pressure on your regulator that is on the gun and you will get better consistancy still and you should see a slight increase of shots per tank.

Now I am not sure what valve are availiable for the MR2's but since you mentioned the Palmers reg, here are a few other ones that may be alittle nicer on your wallet and still do a great job. Bob Long Torpedo is a good reg, CP Regulators are also quite good and much easier on the wallet than a Palmers. MacDev makes great regulators too, but those are alittle more exspensive but they are my favorite and I think they are worth the cost.

Hope this helps.

Also, running a remote line is probably also messing with your consistancy right now. Try just putting the tank in the asa Im not sure if it will help, but it may.

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 09:21 AM
Well I am a woodsballer and so carrying the tank on my back (I want to for the "cool" look) is a must for me.

And I dont want to mess with the valve because it brings with it a whole mess of other adjustments and purchases I dont want to do.

I wanted to add the regulator to the remote line. Palmer has this set up on their site
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_9_28&products_id=174

I like this setup because then I can use this with my other markers as well.

Hoppy11
03-12-2008, 09:28 AM
Ok, I was thinking that is what you may have wanted to do, but I wasn't sure. And it should make a world of difference if you use that.

Getting a new valve isn't too much work, really just adjusting your reg accordingly which isn't hard at all. If you do decide to go that route and are having trouble there are multiple people here who have the knowledge to help you and would be more than willing to do it.

I think if you do go that route you may get sucked into the never ending pit of wanting to upgrade your gun, and then wanting a new gun just to upgrade it. :D

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 09:37 AM
ok. cool.

BUT would be able to answer my techincal question :
what is it the second Plamer regulator is doing that the one in the bottle cant ?I mean both are being set for 800 psi right ?

bigred76
03-12-2008, 09:52 AM
Damnit, I just typed a long post and just lost it. Basically, that regulator is going to be the secondary regulator (HPR, Reg, take yer pick), and will take the 800-850psi output from the tank and convert it down to the 400-600psi your gun actually needs.

A new valve would NOT help consistency as much as a regulator and an extremely good lube job will do. Heck, I'd do the tank too when it's ENTIRELY (and COMPLETELY!!! Make sure with your remote line before you fiddle with it!) empty. Here's the manual for your tank reg: http://www.paintballsolutions.com/05pb_solutions/pdf/manuals/pureenergy/preset_reactor_regulator.pdf

Remote line kit from Palmers:
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_9_28&products_id=181

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 10:26 AM
hi bigred....I hav read that MR2 run on 800psi. The second regulator reducing it down to 600psi would be counter productive would'nt it ?
the main problem I am having is velocity spikes

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 10:30 AM
and keep in mind I am NOt trying to go LPA . I want to stay at HPA

DFSniper
03-12-2008, 10:54 AM
no, because by using less air going into the gun, you wont have to worry about your tank's recharge rate as much, so it'll cut down on velocity fluctuations.

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 11:10 AM
no, because by using less air going into the gun, you wont have to worry about your tank's recharge rate as much, so it'll cut down on velocity fluctuations.

true, but doesnt less air going there mean lower velocity unless I put in a higher flow valve etc.

I am not trying to cross question here guys so please dont take offence to my questions. I am just trying to understand and sort out all the information I have been reading.

DFSniper
03-12-2008, 11:18 AM
no, as long as your velocity isnt turned in all the way, you dont need to increase the airflow into your gun. you just need to tighten your spring tension by screwing your velocity adjuster in more. and as a side effect of less airflow, you'll notice less kick too.

ask away, thats what we're here for!

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 11:41 AM
no, as long as your velocity isnt turned in all the way, you dont need to increase the airflow into your gun. you just need to tighten your spring tension by screwing your velocity adjuster in more. and as a side effect of less airflow, you'll notice less kick too.

ask away, thats what we're here for!

and this setup will work without a hitch in rapid fire mode...meaning no drop off ?

DFSniper
03-12-2008, 11:45 AM
it shouldnt. even fully LP spyders can shoot with no problem, and they run as low as 200psi sometimes.

bigred76
03-12-2008, 12:09 PM
A Palmers' recharge is near-instantaneous, and even allows the use of CO2 in some markers that wouldn't normally use CO2 (ie, a VS2 or VS3). They're EXCELLENT regulators. The claimed 800psi OP is bull ****. They actually use only about 600psi, so anything excess is waste. As DF also said, because the tank is trying to put out 800psi, the tank can't always recharge correctly if it's not lubed right. The regulator, with all that air in the remote line behind it, evens out the mixture, and gives your gun exactly what it wants. Plus, if you fiddle with it right (velocity screw/main spring tensions and regulator), you can get a medium-ranged pressure without the normal Spyder hiccups or burps. :)

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 12:14 PM
. The regulator, with all that air in the remote line behind it, evens out the mixture, and gives your gun exactly what it wants.

but what if the regulator is one of those inline ones mounted to the remote right by the tank as in this example
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=174:4587a55734fdf9a9a1f3300511276653

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 12:16 PM
DFSniper I just realised you were answering my question in the MR2 thread LOL.....Now on there you mentioned a high flow valve. Now am I still putting this valve in the marker with this Palmer regulator inline setup. Is that the only thing or do I have to pick up other springs etc. if I put the valve in ?

DFSniper
03-12-2008, 12:20 PM
new springs will help you with your dwell time, but thats only really for getting the lowest operating pressure possible. and yes, you could take the palmers inline and mount it on the remote you already have, im just not sure if or how it'll affect the pressure going into the gun.

bigred76
03-12-2008, 12:26 PM
It will act as a normal secondary inline regulator.... ;)


Skin, sorry, got it backasswards. It'll still work, though, I was just thinking of the bottomline Palmers regulator, which IMO, would be a better option.

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 12:27 PM
. and yes, you could take the palmers inline and mount it on the remote you already have, im just not sure if or how it'll affect the pressure going into the gun.

thats what I was wondering about ...it seemed that if it was mounted up there,that there was no room/chamber for the air to be contained before being regulated. Thats part of why I have been asking questions. I am trying to avoid mounting it by the marker because of the "f-ugly" factor...

bigred76
03-12-2008, 12:28 PM
The Fugly factor IMO applies to the remote line in general... your point? :) The bottomline regulator is the best setup IMO for you, in case you come around and decide to put the bottle on the gun for any reason.

SkinWalk3r
03-12-2008, 03:47 PM
The Fugly factor IMO applies to the remote line in general... your point? :) .


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!:jawdrop: :bigshock: :bigshock:
remotes are the main reason I decided to woodsball. :)

bigred76
03-12-2008, 05:55 PM
And the lack thereof in speedball made it my choice. ;) To each his own. :)

SkinWalk3r
03-13-2008, 12:28 PM
BTW do you all open you tanks up all the way or just crack it till the air starts to flow. I usually do the latter and am wondering if that could be part of my velocity problems ?

bigred76
03-13-2008, 12:33 PM
That might be it, I screw mine all the way into my ASA... Screw it all the way down, then out an eighth of a turn, to make sure you don't open it TOO much. I remember I used to run a remote WAY back in the day, and whenever I'd screw down my remote too much it'd restrict the flow. The 1/8 turn fixed that.

DFSniper
03-13-2008, 03:38 PM
i had to jbweld the nut on, because mine was a cheap pmi one, so whenever i tried to unscrew it, the entire screw assembly came out. i usually turn it all the way in.

SkinWalk3r
03-13-2008, 06:04 PM
tried it. no go. I am waiting for the Palmer stab to get here.

SkinWalk3r
03-16-2008, 06:24 PM
ok its here. and BUGGER IT !!!! I am still getting spikes. I am going to pull my hair out........


PE 68/4500 $150.00 On Master Card
Palmer Stabiliser $100.00 On Master Card
Dumbfounded look on my face when I realize that I am still spiking : PRICELESS.

There are some things money can't buy like consistency and know-how. For everything else there is MASTER CARD @!

SpyderMan723
03-24-2008, 07:15 AM
ok its here. and BUGGER IT !!!! I am still getting spikes. I am going to pull my hair out........


PE 68/4500 $150.00 On Master Card
Palmer Stabiliser $100.00 On Master Card
Dumbfounded look on my face when I realize that I am still spiking : PRICELESS.

There are some things money can't buy like consistency and know-how. For everything else there is MASTER CARD @!

lol! Get a spring kit

bigred76
03-24-2008, 10:23 AM
:roflmao:

OK, now comes into the equation, how accurate is the chrono you're using?

Also, try (just try, don't have to make it permanent) hooking the tank directly into the asa. You never know, it might fix your problem!

Schecter1277
03-27-2008, 05:41 AM
ok its here. and BUGGER IT !!!! I am still getting spikes. I am going to pull my hair out........


PE 68/4500 $150.00 On Master Card
Palmer Stabiliser $100.00 On Master Card
Dumbfounded look on my face when I realize that I am still spiking : PRICELESS.

There are some things money can't buy like consistency and know-how. For everything else there is MASTER CARD @!

Well you asked for it, you bought a pure energy tank. Those and dye throttle tanks are probably the worste on the market, that I can think of off the top of my head.

I would have gone with the crossfire, CP, or nitro duck. But that was your choice.

stabs aren't really that great of regs. They can run off co2(which ALL regs can do) and that is their only "quality."

**POOF** Watch the name calling, its not needed or wanted on this forum. jjr

I've had a nitro duck tank and an ACI bulldog III(aka CP tank reg) and I just screwed it in and got +/- 5-10(best youre ever gonna get with a spyder)
Now, that's what I did, you are welcome to do what you feel is best.