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View Full Version : Buy and building a new VS1


VicReschke0626
03-06-2008, 02:11 PM
Hey all,

I'm a former paintball player of 8 years, I used to play speedball tourneys with a Silver C&C Angel way back in the day (If you can accurately remember what a Silver C&C Angel looks like, you should be able to figure out just how long ago it was I played tourney level paintball.) Anyways, after a number of years, my friends and I are finally getting back into the sport. We're going to be playing on our local private field, and we have a CO2 fill station. N2 is around, but it's a 20min drive. Not very convient compared to a minute long walk to the garage, so CO2 will be the order of the day.

Because the new RS has come out now, the VS1's are dropping in price, thus, I've decided to build off a VS1 platform to create my backyard bruiser.
My goal is to make an accurate, very comfortable, well balanced, efficient CO2 gun. By efficient, I mean works everytime you pick it up just as you expect it to. No jams, no sputtering, greatly reduced velocity spikes, very little drop off. Basically, as consistent of performance as possible on CO2. (Kind of a contradiction of terms isn't it?) It can be a gas hog if it wants to or needs to be, as previously stated, we have a CO2 fill station at our private field.

I'd like to think I'm fairly informed, but I'd like to put up my future purchase list for all of you; veterans, noobs, and everything inbetween, to go over and make recommendations on.


Spyder VS1
- J&J Edge Elite Kit
- New Designz VS Pro-Clamp No Rise Feedneck
- Trinity VS Front with LPC
- Trinity Sick Roller Trigger OR Trinity VS Trigger (Does Sick Roller fit stock VS Trigger Frame?)
- Trinity Universal Cradle 07 w/ On/Off Drop Forward
- Trinity OR Dye grips (Anybody use Trinity's grips before?)
- Palmer Stabilizer
- DXS 16oz CO2 with Anti-Siphon


For a loader, I've been considering....

- My old Revy pre-X Board 18V
- Fasta LCD 18V
- VL VLocity Jr.
- VL Revolution Eye Force
- VL eVLution 3

I'm not a very quick shot, so I'll probably barely average above 10bps. But I'd rather overkill my needs with the eyes on the gun and a quick hopper and reduce my worrying about chops.

I'd welcome any and all input. Anything that would really improve the gun, or it's performance, I'd gladly add to the gun. Running the gun LP isn't a huge concern for me, sipping gas out of the tank isn't a major goal of mine with this marker. What pressure does a stock Spyder VS1 need to operate properly? Should I consider the HP kit for the Palmer?

I figure with my current idea and list in my head, I should end up with one little Spyder that'll rip pretty well on CO2 with very, very few problems. I'm not too concerned about cost, I've spent waaaayyyy more on paintball in the past, I'm just looking for a marker that's going to run CO2 well, and put paint where I want it to put paint, when I want it to. Everytime, with very few problems.


Let me know what you all think.

-Reschke

DFSniper
03-06-2008, 02:23 PM
sounds good! as for the hopper, i'd get an Eggy3. i have a z-boarded eggy2 on my esp (stock board) and havent had any chops. i got mine for $35 shipped (almost brand new too!)

edit: wow! come to think of it, i havent heard anyone even mention a C+C angel in over 5 years!

VicReschke0626
03-06-2008, 03:25 PM
I guess my "old" gun, is really more of my "antique" gun then.

Sure wish this bad boy still worked. I loved this gun. Unfortunately it's completely locked up and I can't even open the breech anymore.

Haha, anybody know a shop that can fix this still?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/VicReschke0626/img614.jpg

For the youngins, this is was an Angel looked like a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away when they first started milling guns from the factory.

-Reschke

DFSniper
03-06-2008, 04:10 PM
my old neighbor that i used to play with had a silver LCD w/ KAPP angled VA & CP flame drop w/ unimount, running off that crappy VL agitated hopper. he got in on ebay for $550! he also had a boomstick just like yours and a blue LPC. you may want to contact WDP (or APS as they're now called) and see what they can do.

VicReschke0626
03-06-2008, 04:21 PM
Maybe one day. Right now the goal is building this VS1 that will run CO2 fast and clean.

-Reschke

king-man
03-06-2008, 05:45 PM
Whoa, i didnt think anyone made grips for VS's, im almost positve DYE doesn't but i coudl see trinty makin them,also, why not by a rs, it runs off co2 and would be a great efficeint and reliable(well, it should be) gun that you wouldnt need any upgrades to make it a mess around gun to go speedball every once in a while, also how much does that gun weigh?

DFSniper
03-06-2008, 05:49 PM
you're right. the vs grips are different from normal esp grips. they wont fit.

king-man
03-06-2008, 06:03 PM
I dont think the trigger will work either will it? i think its for the VS2 frame only, but they could be the same but that would defeat the purpose of buying a VS2 Trigger frame.
* idk about the front block either
** Just buy a RS and add a new feedneck, it will be cheaper and alot better

DFSniper
03-06-2008, 06:20 PM
it wont be cheaper because he'd still have to up it to get it to run as consistant. if he changes regs, theres no point in getting an RS.

king-man
03-06-2008, 07:04 PM
no, what m sayin is buy a rs and leave it stock except a trigger and a feedneck,
EDIT, it might run as consitent, course we wont know till someone buys one and runs it on co2

VicReschke0626
03-06-2008, 10:00 PM
I looked into it more, yeah, those Trinity Grips won't fit, I guess that's out the window.

Looking at the manuals of the VS1 and VS2, I'm 99.9% sure the trigger and the front block should fit the VS1, same with the feedneck.

If anyone knows for sure, correct me if I'm wrong.

Are the RS's out and widely availible? What's so good about them?
Also, does anyone know how well a VS2 would run on anti-siphoned CO2 running through a Palmer Stabilizer? I know Kingman doesn't reccomend using CO2 in the stock VS2, but can it be improved to handle it?

-Reschke

king-man
03-07-2008, 03:16 AM
the rs's arent widely out but check ebay, someone is sellign a few, as far as the vs2 on co2, there is a thread on pbn, ill find it and link it here.
EDIT here it is (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2200389) and also, buy urethane o-rings for it
EDIT*, if you could getyour hands on one of those new SE valves for it, than that would be great for making it run

VicReschke0626
03-07-2008, 08:31 AM
Thanks for the link. I read through all of that with great interest, and it's made me consider running a VS2 on CO2. But, as I gathered, and knew already, running CO2 requires taking several precautions.

Does this sound like a safe (I understand HPA/N2 would be safest, I'm just wondering if it sounds reasonably safe) set-up to run on a VS2????

Spyder VS2
-Anti-siphoned (to match the gun) CO2
-Palmer Stabilizer
-Trinity Front Block w/ LPC
-Trinity VS trigger
-Trinity Universal Drop 07
-New Designz No Rise Feedneck
-SS braided hose instead of Macroline

I figure with the Palmer and the Anti-Siphon, I'll have a pretty good defense against liquid CO2 entering the gun. It seemed that most of the problems that warrant not using CO2 were caused by liquid reaching that balanced valve after destroying the stock reg that couldn't handle it. With that reg collecting dust having been replaced by the Stabilizer, my only hurdle then is whether or not liquid is reaching the balanced valve. With the Anti-siphon and the Palmer, I'm pretty sure that problem is neutralized too. I welcome anyone's thoughts on this.

Which o-rings should I change out? With the set-up I'm planning on running, do I still need to change them out? I understand urethane swells less and would then be less likely to shred or break on me.

Finally, what's special about SE valve? Is it compatible in the VS2? What benefits would it have?

-Reschke

king-man
03-07-2008, 08:47 AM
Sounds good, the ones you sould need to change would be the ones in the valve,
The SE, or Synergy Engineered, Valve is the new valve in the rs, its compatible with co2, looking at the bodies the VS2'2 & 3's and the RS and RSX look to bethe same body, so if the valve would fit right that would make it perfect for running co2,
also a im not real familiar with the palmer stabalizer though i have heard alot about it, is it like a regular regulator and and you use it as a grip, or is it like the stock one that works as an ASA, if its regular than, than you need an asa, if its not, then dont waste your money on the front block

VicReschke0626
03-07-2008, 08:56 AM
It's a standard Male ASA screw in regulator, pretty much hailed as the best regulator for CO2 ever built. People have ripped whole tanks of CO2 on a cold day through a Stabilizer and had the reg ice cold and dripping wet, but still had no liquid enter their guns.

I read in that thread you refered me to it said that pretty much everything up to the valve, including the valve and seal hates CO2, I figured upgrade it all, ASA, lines, reg, front block, to work best with CO2.

Do you know where I could by just as SE valve? If I could drop one of those in an really perfect this CO2 powered VS2, I'd be one happy camper. And I'd have one well working marker that does well exactly what the owners manual strongly recommends not doing! haha.

-Reschke

king-man
03-07-2008, 05:23 PM
It's a standard Male ASA screw in regulator, pretty much hailed as the best regulator for CO2 ever built. People have ripped whole tanks of CO2 on a cold day through a Stabilizer and had the reg ice cold and dripping wet, but still had no liquid enter their guns.

I read in that thread you refered me to it said that pretty much everything up to the valve, including the valve and seal hates CO2, I figured upgrade it all, ASA, lines, reg, front block, to work best with CO2.

Do you know where I could by just as SE valve? If I could drop one of those in an really perfect this CO2 powered VS2, I'd be one happy camper. And I'd have one well working marker that does well exactly what the owners manual strongly recommends not doing! haha.

-Reschke
you would have to find someone parting out a re or see if Kingman will sell you one

VicReschke0626
03-07-2008, 06:13 PM
What model Spyder uses the SE valve?

NeedForSpeed
03-08-2008, 03:19 AM
Only the RS.
I have heard of someone buying an SE valve directly from Kingman. I'll look to see if that is correct.

Doc77
03-08-2008, 09:37 AM
Here is my 2 cents....

Trigger: I would stay away from the Trinity VS trigger. At the moment, the only triggers that are available for the VS series are the Trinity VS trigger and the Custom Products triggers (sling and rake). I have all 3 of them for my VS2, and the CP triggers are, by far, much nicer in feel and performance. I have also tried them out on my buddy's VS1 so you don't need to worry about it not fitting properly. The Trinity trigger feels light and lasks the solid feel that the CP triggers have; the CP triggers are light also, but the just feel more stable. The CPs also utilize a roller bearing, which makes its travel much smoother. They also come with a nut/shim that eliminates the side play that many people dispise. A magnetic return mod can be done to any trigger you decide to use (check out Otter's page for instructions); it's a quick & cheap mod, and the results are impressive.

Grips: The only company that made aftermarket grips for the VS series was Hybrid (key word WAS because they have recently gone out of business). It's very easy to modify grips to fit the VS. All you would need to do is to drill out some new screw holes that aligns with the VS frame. Then take some rubber and make some plugs out of it to fill in the stock screw holes.

As for the use of CO2, I can't help you much on that because I don't know much about it. From what I understand, all that is required for running CO2 on a non-CO2 marker (e.g. VS2) is it replace the buna o-rings with polyurethane ones. I read about this, but don't quote me on the accuracy of that informtaion because I've never seen it in practice. But since you're considering a VS1, this won't really be a problem for you.

EDIT: Stay away from the Fasta hoppers. Their necks are rather unstable, and the break very easily. Both my brother and I cracked the hopper necks last weekend, and according to guys on the Nation, this is a very very common occurence. The actual feed rate of the Fasta 18V is great, but I would suggest going with a hopper that has a reinforce neck (e.g. empire), especially if you dive a lot.

VicReschke0626
03-08-2008, 10:21 AM
I think I'm going to end up using a slightly upped RS or VS2, I can't decide which. Probably will end up being the RS just for the CO2 compatability.

-Reschke

king-man
03-08-2008, 11:57 AM
I think I'm going to end up using a slightly upped RS or VS2, I can't decide which. Probably will end up being the RS just for the CO2 compatability.

-Reschke

Get a cp trigger, I dont have either but thats what I've heard the best about, and a q-lock

VicReschke0626
03-08-2008, 12:29 PM
I've started building a list of upgrades again...haha, damn, I haven't even bought the dang gun yet and I've already been bit like I was before with the ups bug.

Anyways, tell me what you think of this.

- Spyder RS
- New Designz VS No-Rise Clamping Feedneck (Red)
- Spyder VS Body Kit (Red)
- New Designz VS Regulator Adaptor (Red)
- Custom Products VS Rake Trigger (Dusted Red)
- Custom Products Micro Razor Drop Forward (Dusted Red)
- Custom Products 2k5 On/Off ASA (Dusted Red)
- Palmer Stablizer
- 16oz CO2 (Anti-Siphoned)

After that list, all I think I need is the fittings and the SS-Braided Hose to hook it all up. Anything you can think of that I could have possibly missed towards creating one sweet new RS???

-Reschke

VicReschke0626
03-08-2008, 01:46 PM
o wait nvm

Were you about to comment on that the RS got a new reg? I thought I was up a creek with getting a new reg too, since the Trinity VS Front Block's don't fit the RS, or so it's been reported, with the new valves. But as this (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2590832) thread from pbnation shows, the new RS uses the same proprietary reg threads as the VS did.

I think that's about it for my list of mods then, I've got the red body kit, red trigger, red drop, red ASA, red reg adaptor, red feedneck, the palmer and some anti-siphoned CO2.

Unless I wanted to upgrade the bolt, I can't think of anything else I'd be interested in. I used Semi-only so the Tadao Board isn't much interest to me, and upgrading the valve would defeat the purpose of buying the RS specifically. Nobody makes grips, I'm not really interesting in changing the striker out, and I'm going to put the same J&j Edge Elite kit on this Spyder as I would any other I would have bought.

Sounds like a solid plan for a great RS instead of just a good VS1 or a nice VS2 to me, right?

king-man
03-08-2008, 02:17 PM
Once you get this thing all togeather give us a vid, also if you could give me a review here (http://rsusergoup.com) and click review. also did you get my PM?

VicReschke0626
03-08-2008, 02:34 PM
Yeah, I got it. I ordered the RS already. The ups are coming from ActionVillage, CP directly, and Palmer directly, so when they get in, I'll start putting them on.

Do you want a review before or after the ups are all added?

I'll post plenty of pics all around.

This should be one sweet looking black and red CO2 breathing monster though.

-Reschke

VicReschke0626
03-08-2008, 02:36 PM
Once you get this thing all togeather give us a vid, also if you could give me a review here (http://rsusergoup.com) and click review. also did you get my PM?

Your link doesn't work either.

-Reschke

king-man
03-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Your link doesn't work either.

-Reschke

lol, sorry i spelled it wrong, if you could test before and after it'd be great but if not before is better. here it is, this time i wont misspell it this time http://rsusergroup.com

VicReschke0626
03-08-2008, 02:54 PM
lol, sorry i spelled it wrong, if you could test before and after it'd be great but if not before is better. here it is, this time i wont misspell it this time http://rsusergroup.com

I'll try and get some testing done before ups. Unfortunately the anti-siphoned tanks are the last thing I'm getting done. The shop will be doing two 16oz tanks to my gun. And I haven't played in over 5yrs, I don't have any spare tanks laying around to test with.

But, if I can hold back the ups bug long enough to test before putting all the ups on. I'll help you out for sure.

-Reschke

king-man
03-08-2008, 03:00 PM
lol, i know that feeling, any review will be greatly appreciated

VicReschke0626
03-08-2008, 03:10 PM
Understand my review might be a little off though. I'm rusty in the paintball area a little..

The last Spyder I owned was a beautiful green marble SE with a Air America Reg, and a 20oz anti-siphon. Which was shooting a Lapco Big Shot and a Smart Parts All American barrels. If that wasn't exciting enough for having the newest big thing for the Spyders then, I also had this awesome new loader called a Revolution. It was powered by a 9V battery and worked so much better than the VL200.

-Reschke

king-man
03-09-2008, 05:46 AM
So, i need reviews, from every point of view, weather its a noob, an average paintball player, or a veteran of paintball whos used more guns than they know what to do with
*EDIT* Trust me ive seen horrible reviews, like when you give a noob an SLG and he thinks its the best thing since sliced bread

VicReschke0626
03-09-2008, 06:21 AM
Well, hopefully my review won't sound too noobish. I'll let you know, my RS's fate is in FedEx's hands now according to my morning e-mails.

Time to play the waiting game....

-Reschke

king-man
03-09-2008, 06:24 AM
ugh, the waitning game, monday will not last any longer

VicReschke0626
03-09-2008, 10:37 AM
I had a buddy of mine who back in the day had the ultimate answer to the waiting game.

He had just ordered his Angel all tricked out from Warped, the works, Intellifeed on his Revvy, the little air tubes Warped Angels had back then, Warped milling, custom Ano, that new "fang" trigger that was popular...he was even getting some boomsticks annoed to match his Angel. And this was one of the oooold Angels too. One of the ones that only had a single goldish trigger and the single green/red LED in back.

Anyways, once Warped finished it and he got notified it was on the way, he just threw a party all week long. He drank beer and BBQed, just about every waking moment of that week until his gun arrived.

He said it was the best week ever, topped off by his custom Warped Angel arriving. I don't doubt it. But then again most of us didn't work from home for daddy's company. Jerk.

Yeah, I'm not bitter about it.

-Reschke

(In all seriousness, he was a good guy, kind of sad I lost touch with him when I stopped playing 5yrs ago, and it was one sweet gun. I played a couple 10-mans with it after he went the way of a even more upped Mini-Cocker. Some of us just aren't lucky to live that good life.)

king-man
03-09-2008, 12:14 PM
sad thing is i gotta go to skool all day tomarrow or else thats deffinatly what id be doing, we west ky boys no how to throw parties

superbarbers
03-24-2008, 05:53 PM
the trinity trigger will fit. No grips are available which sux. I could get my VS1 to operate at about 450-525psi stock with no recocking issues. If you buy any internals. the New designs or 32degrees valve, you'll have to do some drilling to make the set screw fit. other than that you pretty much have a good list of stuff to do.