View Full Version : You wont beleve this

01-24-2008, 08:24 AM


To everyone in the paint-ball community,

With the current situation of an economic melt down. We are going to be in the situation of change.. Not just our company but the community of paint-ball as we know it. Most importantly, our country.

We see the dying of paint-ball dealerships almost every day. We have seen and been involved in the constant bickering of paint-ball manufacturers to not alleviate an ridiculous infrastructure of an ever changing paint-ball community.. What we see is conglomerates and umbrella companies slowly try to corner it and kill, or be killed.

Competition is progress. But when there is none, You have become a monopoly. A beast that becomes fat and become a cancer to its own body. Now we fight internally.. From disgracing the new player to never having a good time, to the recballer who gives a damn about nothing but playing and if a field is not around or he thinks that his local field only caters to other so called "important non-paying types", he becomes renegade ... lawless. To the dealer, who cannot figure out why no one comes in their store. To the dealer that decides to devalue industry product because they are now in survival mode to make ends meet. To the manufacturer who now must do the same to help with dealer margins, but bleeds its own margins and soon must be hasty in their decision making... We must stop and start reflecting!

Players will not feel this because you have the options to stay home and play online but know its always best to go play our sport like you should. Players have the luxury to love and hate brands to prove a point not knowing that this industry right this very moment, ONLY NEEDS GROWTH, the growth of competition, the growth to be better ambassadors to the new, the old, and the ones who have fallen to a disenfranchised love of the sport. The west is feeling the crunch, east will follow soon enough. Soon their will be nothing you decide what you want, that is the day the industry as a whole may be destroyed.

We have stepped sideways because first off, we can, and secondly, the consumer, the dealer are simply not buying how they use too. To the consumer that can afford to pay in other industries good money, but is educated to go cheap in paint-ball. If you cant afford it, you just cant afford it. HOWEVER, what must be done is to let new people embrace our sport so we can grow. To also provide a service to the community that we are legit. When we do, fields are easily accessible.

Now working on other industry where competition is fierce, they still maintain order, respect, right to fight, but keep the margins in check so its industry will not implode. Buyers still buy. No matter what. You can see it by their own conventions...

At this time I say we need a united front, a governing body, with two common goals; to thrive in our great industry, and to keep the industry from failing. We so love this sport? Then each player has a responsibility to improve it.

History is repeating-itself and the more you see it then you begin to believe that the harvest did not justify to reseed because of a long winter. And we need to hold on to the fabric that made us great. to conserve, to demand, to supply must all come into play.

We are a luxury sport, but when dad loses a job, or your parents lose their homes, who plays? who wins? most importantly, who survives? furthermore, who controls?

Once more.. We are still here, not like how we do, but we are still here. Production I still have and whatever I got that you want. I have, till the industry warrants it. And if it warrants it I'll make more. And when I can get up to lick my wounds, heal, and get up off my feet and feel like I need to do something, I'm coming after you.. To the loyalists: I got a lot more in the war-chest that these fools haven't thought of yet! Just wait and see.. To my killers.. I will make things right.

01-24-2008, 10:08 AM
Wow, ICD and now this!!! Our country IS headed for a recession and experts say we are already in one financially.

01-24-2008, 10:51 AM
Meh, doesn't hurt my feelings one bit.

They are just ONE company out of several different paintball companies, and it won't hurt the sport. Businesses size-down all the time. Just as an opinion, I never really cared for the message they sent the lay-world about the sport. It was obvious they only catered to a select few, even within the speedball/tournament community with their profanity and their "killing suckers" bit. Of course, as I stated, this is just my opinion.

Paintball (tournament style speedball, not scenario) is on the decline, somewhat, but not because of businesses. I've said for a long time it's the players that are killing the sport, not the sport committing suicide. I could easily point out a dozen or more threads on PBN alone that can prove this point over and over (just look in the Paintball Video section and any thread labeled "noob something" or "Smart Parts.")

01-24-2008, 11:21 AM
There was another lawsuit in there from Kee that had something to do with it! Some of their products were great. I totally agree Vike..........look at the ***u regs from Guerrilla..........guess I can't totally blame them as they sell lots of them just because of the logo..............at least they sell them cheaper without the logo!

VS3 Sniper
01-24-2008, 11:41 AM
Yea I saw that on pbn. Someone said they are in a lawsuit with KEE and their manufactur in china starting selling their products to un-licensed dealers.

01-24-2008, 12:02 PM
Hybrid is out but Modifyed is in? which is which?

Hob Hayward
01-24-2008, 12:18 PM
Meh, I was never a fan of Hybrid. AS vike said, they seemed to cater to the ******* type speedballers...

I don't approve of Kee though, they're a bloody monopoly practically.

spray and pray
01-24-2008, 12:49 PM
damnit...... My hybrid grind push button on/off was having problems and I contacted them. 2 weeks ago they said they shipped out the parts for me. All of the sudden, we will not fix your asa. Every time I bought from them I had a problem. Right now with how angry they made me I am glad they went out. They did have some nice stuff though.

01-24-2008, 12:56 PM
Wow, ICD and now this!!! Our country IS headed for a recession and experts say we are already in one financially.

it doesnt take experts to realize america is financially going down the drain

01-24-2008, 03:08 PM

MR2 Woodsballer
01-24-2008, 03:21 PM
time to stock up on the very lil hybrid products i do use. Hybrid shells

VS2 King
01-24-2008, 03:22 PM
You Guys Shouldn't Worry About It That Much. We Have Gone Through This Before Even Back In The Day(Great Depression) And Look Were Still A Nation And Running Perfectly Fine.

01-24-2008, 03:42 PM
why is our economy like this, i don't understand, how did it start

01-24-2008, 04:13 PM
well, i think its because or country is so hevily in debt

VS3 Sniper
01-24-2008, 04:44 PM
^ that and so many companies loan people money knowing they won't be able to pay it back. The economy will pick back up it just need a lil kick start.

01-24-2008, 04:46 PM
you could explain it in a lot of ways....

what goes up must come down

order inevitably leads to chaos

the climb is the easy part of the roller coaster

either way, this is just a regular market happening, over inflation has caused so much financial strain that lack of consumerism is going to bring it back into check.

01-24-2008, 04:51 PM
what goes up must come down
why the h*** does america have to alwyas go up, why the f*** dont we get agrip and stay at ground level so we dont fall so d*** hard every time we get a dumba$$ president, like nixon for instance, do most of you know that are $100 bills hold the same value as our $1 bill, the paper they are printed on.

01-24-2008, 05:12 PM
^people are greedy and they dont plan ahead.

about the presidents its the same as what i just said they just do what feels right at the time.

01-24-2008, 06:01 PM
If they'd let me run the country.............I'd make one member of OPEC magically disappear once a week until they voted to drop the prices back to $1 per gallon............our economy would sky rocket!

01-24-2008, 06:09 PM
and then you'd become a ruthless dictator start a war with china, russia, and the middle east and then we would all die

01-24-2008, 06:32 PM
I for one will miss their shells, grips and back plates. The plates lasted so much longer than the stock ones. While not the message they should convey, but a nice plate none the less.

The economy isn't as crappy as the news makes you believe, but it is bad. The news has been over stating some and understating other.

but thats another convo, for now I for one will be holding off on a new marker purchase for a dozen reasons, but the biggest being I just bought a truck.

01-24-2008, 06:37 PM
yeah i liked there jerseys too

02-16-2008, 02:23 PM
Small business going big, not watching there backs with questionable business practices.

And we all can admit how much of this product we buy is over priced for what it really is.

How much for a strap? How much for grips?

"We are a luxury sport, but when dad loses a job, or your parents lose their homes, who plays? who wins? most importantly, who survives? furthermore, who controls?"

Maybe he should have marketed the sport to the "Dad" get "Dad" in the game.

Product advancement...is not sport advancement. Sport advancemment is growing the sector of the population interested in our sport.

02-16-2008, 03:51 PM
^ i agree with you we are paying way to much to play but theres nothing that we can do to change it and the sad thing is that it will only get more and more expensive

02-17-2008, 07:19 AM
When I was in business before we moved states...I sold 2k round cases of "mid grade" paint for $25. That still gave me what i called a good mark up people usually then bought 2, people played longer and needed more accesories, air...y'all know how that works...my theory was less profit and the volume would make up the difference. AND with more volume came larger discounts when I ordered.

People need to rethink there business model...especially in tough economic times.

02-17-2008, 09:13 AM
Amen. I happen to know exactly the price of paint from the dealer. I also know that most fields/stores mark things up a LOT. I've done it myself! Most fields actually survive off their paint sales - 5 bucks field fee isn't going to do it. So, where is the advancement of the sport in this case? There is no "advancement" by the field or store, as they aren't there for that reason. They're there to put food on their kids tables, pay their bills and make money.

When I think of "advancement", I think of revolutionary ideas - a new type of exciting play, a way to get people to the field in droves, a new gun that is cheaper but much more efficient and saves money in the end, etc. I've seen NO real advancement in the last 4 years in the sport. In fact, I've seen more retreating in the sport - ramping because it's too hard to keep up with the cheats, guns getting faster and more dangerous, YOUNG tournament players becoming horrid and brutish, clothing becoming offensive to the GENERAL public (they wouldn't wear this stuff out with their parents in public...) the general player DEvolving into cavemen trying to claim or protect his own territory, constant fights and putting said fights on the internet only to rate whether it was a GOOD fight or if they fought like girls (lay people would be horrified by this action on a baseball field or football field - and you wonder why they don't accept paintball?) The list could go on forever.

Now, personally I never bought into the idea that dealers/companies should be responsible for making the sport "advance." Ultimately, it falls on the people that are buying and supporting that sport/company that "advance" the game. When Hybrid came out with their Contract Killer crap and [Expletive] those Guys...I knew they were targeting ONLY a small, specific level of the sport - the young, gangsta wannabe, can't-say-what-they-want-at-home, so-they-take-it-to-where-their-parents-aren't-and-spew-it-like-diarhea group of teenagers and adolescent acting 20-25 year olds....it became VERY obvious they (hybrid) weren't in the business for advancement of the sport, because they spit in the face of everyone who finds that crap offensive - including the mommies and daddies who pay for all of it. No wonder they went under - and I refuse to believe the garbage that "paintball is dieing out" is the reason...

/rant (Whew!)

It's time everyone understood that the companies in this sport aren't here because they want to advance the sport. They want to make money, same as Wal-Mart, KMart, Target, Ambercrombie and Fitch, Hollister, Dell, New Egg, (ad infinitum. You seriously think THESE companies are in it because they want to advance something? The advancement of clothing :rolleyes:...) This is why I try to stop the SP bashing before it starts, not that I'm a fan boy or anything - it's a BUSINESS. It's only in BUSINESS to make MONEY. It's not in the BUSINESS to advance the sport.

When is the player going to take responsibility and try to advance it on their own part?

02-17-2008, 01:08 PM

02-17-2008, 01:30 PM
Far as paint prices go(or any equipment in general for that matter), I'm not so sure people actually know the prices. There's a chance even a dealer may not really know the rock bottom prices because a lot of warehouse and manufacturer companies have tier pricing. That is to say that Joe little guy online or Joe little guy B&M local Ma & Pa store aren't getting the same prices on products as Walmart, Action Village, ****'s Sporting Goods, **fill in the blank**. Walmart will order 100 skids of premium paint at $25 a case at tier 1 while Joe Blow pays $45 at tier 3 for his single skid. AV will pay $18 for that J&J ceramic while jow blow pays $27. ****'s will pay $75 for that Imagine while Joe pays $99. When it comes time to compete, poor Joe is riddled with these people that think they know what's going on that say, "Hey what teh hell, Mr Biggie sells it for $20 less! You're ripping meh off!" So you can go on and on about being overcharged for products yet you really have no idea what's lying just under the surface of reality.......nor care as long as you're getting the best deal. Hell, I didn't even touch the subject of buying a slew of Ion's for $199 wholesale and 3 months later it's what the retail has become because SP is now selling them for $125 wholesale lol. In reality, these places you speak of may not be making the big bucks you suspect them of making -

Far as the larger businesses go, in the day, paintball business were run by ballers. Large conglomerates such as KEE are now run by businessmen looking for an edge to dominate the field(NPI). Everybody wanted paintball main stream and yet complain because it's changed. I suppose they didn't realize it could have possibly been to their disadvantage through higher prices and all that comes with being main stream - :smirk:

Far as Hybrid goes, just sounds like a classic case of mismanagement and little foresight -