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View Full Version : Confusion around new internals...


stil
12-19-2007, 10:31 PM
Having read a few threads on here and browsed pbreview, I have come to the highly educated conclusion that I still have no idea what bolt(striker) to get... :D

These are the things I'm looking for in upgrading the internals

- less noise (would rather *phut*phut*phut* than *kak*kak*kak*)
- less recoil
- better balance
- accuracy

I understand the degree of benefit can be negligible... I think.

Here's where my main confusion arises - Delrin. Does it swell? Some say yes, others say no (pbreview) Some reviewers don't specify the way they use their gun (woodsball, speedball, etc) Others complain of chops, but don't specify what rates of fire they are using.

Vs

Aluminium bolts. Heavier than delrin and need oiling, but other than that, it's all good, correct? Maybe not... as they still scour the chamber? And they need more maintenance than a delrin (not that I mind, it's kinda fun in a way)

Vs

The way I play - woodsball with a conservative fire rate. I have yet to chop a ball, and I've put 3000 or so rounds through the gun. Higher cycling rate not so much an issue, I suppose - but I do get the gun wet, and the weather in NZ can vary from cold and dry to hot and humid over the course of a game. :rolleyes:

Rifght now I'm thinking of a Kingman aluminium anti-chop, but It would great to hear some first hand opinions on what to expect in a bolt, and then I can ask questions where I'm unsure of certain things. :hungry:

mr1 sniper
12-20-2007, 06:18 AM
so far the stock bolt on the mr1 has done good for me but if you want a new one i would suggest looking at the alamo city pb del flow bolt or alamo's original with a couple o rings

DFSniper
12-20-2007, 06:36 AM
back in the day, when delrin bolts were first being made for spyders, there were some brands that swelled. a lot of that was because people were constantly oiling them. i dont think you'll have a problem with bolts swelling now, unles you get a chop and leave the paint soaking in your gun for a long time.

Critical
12-20-2007, 06:53 AM
another reason why delrin has become popular is due to the fact that it is significantly lighter than aluminum. this allows the bolt to operate at the same fps, but at a lower pressure. many of the delrin bolts also have better flow than the aluminum bolts, which can improve efficiency.

stil
12-20-2007, 06:56 PM
so far the stock bolt on the mr1 has done good for me but if you want a new one i would suggest looking at the alamo city pb del flow bolt or alamo's original with a couple o rings

Sweet, thanks. Do you know if there's a matching striker for these bolts?

DFSniper: But not so much now, I presume? Better batches... but I don't know what constitutes a long time when it comes to exposure to moisture. On a club day we could be playing for up to 4 hours with 3 or 4 breaks. I suppose cleaning the bolt during weach break would suffice...?

TommyRuss
12-20-2007, 07:42 PM
Not speaking from experience...

...but I'm waiting for Sundragon to re-up on this striker, then I'm buying it.

http://www.sundragonpps.com/catalog/item/1583576/1976254.htm

DFSniper
12-20-2007, 08:18 PM
Sweet, thanks. Do you know if there's a matching striker for these bolts? Alamo City Paintball makes delrin-sleeved strikers.

DFSniper: But not so much now, I presume? Better batches... but I don't know what constitutes a long time when it comes to exposure to moisture. On a club day we could be playing for up to 4 hours with 3 or 4 breaks. I suppose cleaning the bolt during weach break would suffice...?


well, that, and people have come to their senses to NOT oil delrin parts (i dont know how that would work for the strikers, since the o-ring part is still metal). I read one of Otter's reviews (I think it was on the VS series) and he is still wary of the un-swelling delrin claims. and i fully trust otter's opinions. but if you clean your gun as soon as you get home, or even better yet, between games if you have a break (which you should do anyway) i dont think you'll have a problem with delrin swelling.

ViperX
12-20-2007, 09:41 PM
Delrin 101

Ok class here's the 401 on Delrin.

Delrin when it first came out, was porous, microscopically...therefore was prone to swelling from oil or any kind of moisture. Delrin was used in many food applications, cutting boards etc. This found to be undesirable, as bacteria would grow in those micrscopic pores. Since then Delrin has been "upgraded" and two different types exist out on the market today, based on it's desirable use and how it is used.

There shouldn't be anyone using the original type to make bolts anymore, if they are they aren't in tune with the "new".

Any of the newer markers that come with a delrin bolt, you can lube all you want, it's not going to swell. However, there shouldn't be a need to oil delrin bolts anyway, by nature they are very slick due to the low friction based on their material composition. You are more likely to get more friction from small dirt particles clinging to the oil on the bolt to slow it down and slowly act as a very fine sandopaper and eventually gum up, especially if you have an anodized aluminum body. Oil is best use where you have any metal on metal friction, most commonly where your striker is.

Too much oil can be a bad thing too. Just a drop or two in your asa, as your owners manual states, will be all you ever need to worry about.

stil
12-21-2007, 01:57 PM
Thanks guys!

ok... newb question. What's the 'asa' ?

So far I have been cleaning and oiling the bolt and striker after every game. I use about 2-3 drops and rub the oil over the bolt/striker with my finger (after cleaning my fingers, of course ;))

DFSniper
12-21-2007, 02:14 PM
Air Source Adapter. pretty much wherever you screw your tank in. usually its the bottomline (part underneath the frame). if you take your VA (verticle adapter) and screw your tank into that, in a sense, that becomes your new ASA (sorry if that confuses you).

as for oiling it, i do it the same way, except i put 2-3 drops on each o-ring, then slide the striker or bolt into the body and rotate it 360 degrees to spread the lube evenly.

stil
12-21-2007, 02:20 PM
Ahh, thanks for reminding me - I've already had one o-ring turn to biscuit after a couple of refillls.

Tech Steve
12-21-2007, 03:25 PM
DFSniper has it dead on. You do not need to over oil o-rings. 2 - 3 drops is all that's needed. Delrin bolts do not swell, they get dirty and stick against the receiver, this is why it seems like it swells is because it doesn't go back and forth smoothly, it gets a lot of oil built up on the bolt. If it does occur, you can lightly file down the bolt. Best thing to do is stick with the stock bolt and striker, especially the striker.

stil
12-23-2007, 09:50 PM
So after all that I'm to stick with stock? o_o

pass?

oldironmudder
12-23-2007, 10:54 PM
Depends on if your going to stick with this marker or buy another one down the road. If your one of the 1% or so like me that sticks with Spyders, slowing upgrading wont hurt. But if you forsee yourself getting a new marker later why buy parts that only work on your marker & not the new one.

stil
12-24-2007, 01:41 AM
Well... I'm not much interested in speedball, and I don't see much of a point in spending $$$ on a new marker for woodsball - the MR1 is shooting near the same acc as the more expensive tippmans available for rental at my local club. Plus it isn't as big and ungainly!

stil
12-25-2007, 07:51 PM
hmm, I made a post and it didn't show up on 'last post'

Is that a forum glitch?

can anyone but me see it (directly above)

DFSniper
12-25-2007, 07:56 PM
i see it.

stil
12-25-2007, 08:03 PM
OK... probably something to do with my connection dropping out during the post x_x

deano 177
12-26-2007, 08:29 AM
Well... I'm not much interested in speedball, and I don't see much of a point in spending $$$ on a new marker for woodsball - the MR1 is shooting near the same acc as the more expensive tippmans available for rental at my local club. Plus it isn't as big and ungainly!

If accuracy is what you are looking for then you came to the wrong place:p . Seriously, if you want to get better accuracy out of your marker then you should match the paint to the barrel and switch to HPA, if you havn't done so already.

I can't see myself spending the money for paint and barrel matching. Most places I go you have to shoot the field paint and they switch up all the time. When I am playing with my friends at our field they usually shoot wallmat monster balls $27 bucks a case. I go to the gander mountain and get a case of nelson for $35. I like it. It shoots way better than that monster crap and I have never had a ball break. Hell, it shoots way better than some of the more expensive field paint that you have to buy!

stil
12-27-2007, 03:48 AM
Dang... yeah, I have to shoot field paint as well (there's only one field in this city - 30 hectares!) That's why I didn't mention matching... can't do it, really.

HPA seems great, but the cannisters are intimidating, big, and it's costly.