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View Full Version : New spyder board...


Hob Hayward
11-24-2007, 08:03 PM
Were you to be able to choose what you wanted in a new board what would it be?

So far the only things I've come up with other than the standards (Semi - capped and uncapped, PSP ramping, Millennium ramping, capped auto, uncapped auto, burst, dwell, debounce etc.)
would be:

-User programmable via a computers USB port - user would have the ability to fine tune all settings to their liking, create new modes etc.

-Low cost, in the range of $40 potentially

Post some ideas - and, if I get enough interest, my friend and I WILL be making boards available. AS of now we've got the basic schematic, and we have a feasible way of making this work.

Input is appreciated!

DFSniper
11-24-2007, 09:16 PM
give me an uncapped board w/eyes that can run off a normal 9v for around $40 and i'd be the happiest baller in the world!

druid
11-25-2007, 01:40 AM
yer gonna run into issues, just as the creators of the Raceframe did.

Updating a board from a laptop or PDA is all well and good but constant software updates are going to be a pain to keep up on.

If you create a board that just has no cap limits on any settings...but has a programmed tourney lock (dip switch or computer jumper) and eyes...that'd go a long way towards selling it.

Make dwell, debounce and ABS settings true "zero milliseconds-< to-whatever" in .5 ms increments...and 1 million [eye] checks per second.

If you make it as small as the new TBoard but with all the components pre-installed, that'd sell it faster (as close to "drop-in" as possible).

Offer 50 and 100 gram microswitches as a choice.

...and shoot for < 10 cases on a single battery charge) recharging port and plug compatable to the current one used on ESP frames).

Kenny_McCormic
11-25-2007, 05:31 AM
What they all just said.

Hob Hayward
11-25-2007, 06:48 AM
yer gonna run into issues, just as the creators of the Raceframe did.

Updating a board from a laptop or PDA is all well and good but constant software updates are going to be a pain to keep up on.

We weren't planning on our own software updates - rather, a GUI front end for editing all settings in any mode.

If you create a board that just has no cap limits on any settings...but has a programmed tourney lock (dip switch or computer jumper) and eyes...that'd go a long way towards selling it.

Make dwell, debounce and ABS settings true "zero milliseconds-< to-whatever" in .5 ms increments...and 1 million [eye] checks per second.

How does 20million eye checks per second sound? :P We'll probably be going that route.

If you make it as small as the new TBoard but with all the components pre-installed, that'd sell it faster (as close to "drop-in" as possible).

Offer 50 and 100 gram microswitches as a choice.

We were planning on working with all stock components, you just plug the switch, noid, battery harness etc. into the board and boom - done. Though, I suppose we could offer new switches

...and shoot for < 10 cases on a single battery charge) recharging port and plug compatable to the current one used on ESP frames).


As to dwell, debounce etc. the plan is to have it as customizable as possible.

Battery life, well, we're gonna put together a prototype and see where we're at - theoretically it should be no worse, if not better than other boards because the mosfets we're using to switch the noid use less current than the average transistor used in other boards.

HeadShot
11-25-2007, 08:07 AM
how about an on/off switch for just on/off function. I can't remember how many times i've shut my gun off only to have it "automaticaly" turn on and waste a battery.


lazer eyes is a must..it would be cool to have different colored lazers. like what smart parts has with their ion. or like lucky green lazers, i like those.


I have a question though. how will it read what mode its in??? will it kindof be like the virtue board??

Hob Hayward
11-25-2007, 09:56 AM
The on/off will function as an on/off :)

Eyes are a definite.

Plan is for two multicolored LED's to show fire mode.

HeadShot
11-25-2007, 10:17 AM
sweet that makes me happy. there's too many colors on the virtue board to remember what mode your in...

DFSniper
11-25-2007, 10:48 AM
:yeahthat:

solution: dip switch...

Hob Hayward
11-25-2007, 11:09 AM
The issue with dip switches are:

a. Remembering what settings correspond to what fire modes
b. Having to unscrew the grips to access them

I think pressing a button on the back is much easier, then again thats just me.

Hob Hayward
11-27-2007, 02:12 PM
Well, someone on another forum suggested the idea of a password (based on trigger pulls and button pushes) to turn the board on, so , if someone stole your gun, they couldn't use it as they'd need to know the pass...

Good idea/bad idea?

Kenny_McCormic
11-27-2007, 03:37 PM
Very good idea. Just make sure its user settable and can be manually overridden/reset only by reflashing it (which should be offered as a service). Also make sure it has a well labeled jumper to disable setting a password. Maybe have a way to program your name into it so if it was stolen it could easily be identified? But to go that far would require an LCD.

oldironmudder
11-27-2007, 03:41 PM
The password?? Good idea but can be swapped out with a stock board & BOOM, working marker.

Dip switchs arent all that hard. I still remember all from the orignal ESP board.

A true uncapped semi & full auto (for testing marker speed only)
Some form of tourney lock, the jumper style kingman has would work good for me.
Eyes, I dont care for them much but always good to have preprogramed.

-User programmable via a computers USB port - user would have the ability to fine tune all settings to their liking, create new modes etc.

I like this idea of programming on the computer & getting new updates or just some off the wall mode.

Battery life, Atleast equal whats on the market now but longer would be better. Have the charging port in the same location.

The dwell, debounce & other little things like that make that programable on the computer. As far as the computer programming, use that for he tourney lock.

Umm.... thats all I can think of right now because the coffee hasnt kicked in yet but if I think of anymore Ill throw it at ya.



Oh ya, If yall really want to go deep into a custom board let me know, I want something simple yet different for my new EM1. I have a spare stock board & harrness....hell a whole EM1 just for parts.

DFSniper
11-27-2007, 03:58 PM
A true uncapped semi & full auto (for testing marker speed only)
i think the one thing you would run into there with the full auto would be sear tripping. if the board tells the sear to constantly trip, it might not catch the striker a lot of the time. it would be so busy trying to change positions that it mgiht not fully extend.

oldironmudder
11-27-2007, 04:04 PM
i think the one thing you would run into there with the full auto would be sear tripping. if the board tells the sear to constantly trip, it might not catch the striker a lot of the time. it would be so busy trying to change positions that it mgiht not fully extend.


Which would damn near keep the sear down so letting the marker go into an unrestricted f/a limited by the marker internals & air system. I think I put that in there because I was thinking about my EM1.

DFSniper
11-27-2007, 04:06 PM
true, but it would turn your gun into a blender if you didnt have eyes...

oldironmudder
11-27-2007, 04:27 PM
true, but it would turn your gun into a blender if you didnt have eyes...


Anti Chop Bolt. Maxxed out Halo or Reloader?

But really though, it would let you test reg recharge & possible help find any weak links in the marker. Plus it would be cool to actually see a Spyder do 40+ CPS with out paint.

DFSniper
11-27-2007, 04:31 PM
that reminds me, i was going through my old subscribed threads on pbn and found the thread where the kid made a full auto mech frame victor, but the video isnt hosted anymore. he said its around 38cps

oldironmudder
11-27-2007, 04:48 PM
I remember back in the day, like 2002-2003 someone did a test & came out with a number in the 40cps range. It could be done, a test, with the right sensors & program on a computer.

Hob Hayward
11-27-2007, 05:18 PM
Sadly - no USB programmability, we're switching from PIC18's to ATtiny84's.

There will be an integrated serial programming circuit though.

As to display - we're now planning on using two LED block (the sort that when all lit make an 8) for character and numerical output when adjusting dwell etc.

The plan is to have a full drop in board, it will screw into the frame with the same screws, the button will line up and - the charging port will line up too. Stock noid and trigger switch will plug into headers on the board.

Also: as the locking, if we implement it, it will be hard coded with no reset though, can be disabled after login (we'll be keeping a DB of pass codes - just in case).

oldironmudder
11-27-2007, 05:39 PM
Sadly - no USB programmability, we're switching from PIC18's to ATtiny84's. Huh??

There will be an integrated serial programming circuit though. English??

As to display - we're now planning on using two LED block (the sort that when all lit make an 8) for character and numerical output when adjusting dwell etc. Freaking Sweet!!!

The plan is to have a full drop in board, it will screw into the frame with the same screws, the button will line up and - the charging port will line up too. Stock noid and trigger switch will plug into headers on the board. Always good

Also: as the locking, if we implement it, it will be hard coded with no reset though, can be disabled after login (we'll be keeping a DB of pass codes - just in case). DataBase??


The password idea, that would be great if the player has small kids or a little brother/sister. What about something like....
<turn frame on>
<press button X amount of times to enter first led number>
<2 second pause>
<press button X amount of times to enter second led number>

If both are right they flash 3 times & if wrong the shows <NO>

If wrong you have to turn the frame off & retry.

Hob Hayward
11-27-2007, 06:34 PM
I was referring to the microcontroller we're using. AVR's support in circuit serial programming, without any extra circuitry.

I meant, they're be a header on the board so it would be possible to reprogram the chip if you know what you're doing.

Yeah, Database, we'd link the buyers email address to a code in the system. This is to prevent people from losing the code... And then not being able to reflash it (wouldn't work as anti-theft if you could do just pop a header off...)

Then again, I personally think I'd get aggravated by having to enter a code every time I turn the marker on.

Kenny_McCormic
11-27-2007, 07:05 PM
I did a cycle test a while ago 43 with a mostly stock victor. http://www.spyder.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=11581 first vis is me seeing how short of a burst i could do second is long bursts because people were claiming it wasnt fully cycling, I think in one of them i attempt to feed it with a gravity loader.

chnk
11-28-2007, 05:21 AM
dwell is determined by springs anyways,

pb34
11-28-2007, 11:02 AM
Sounds like the board your working on could be very interesting. Any idea on how much you'd be charging for it?

Hob Hayward
11-28-2007, 12:59 PM
chnk - valve dwell is determined by springs, but solenoid dwell is another thing.

pb34 - we're hoping for it to be around $40

Kenny_McCormic
11-28-2007, 02:09 PM
$40 for a board that nice would put scenario dreams out of business overnight, especially if you made a universal kit too.

Hob Hayward
11-28-2007, 02:33 PM
I definitely *don't* want to put scenario dreams out of business, as they're the best board company out there. Now larger companies like Tadao or Virtue is a different matter, but Damon is awesome.

oldironmudder
11-28-2007, 03:47 PM
chnk - valve dwell is determined by springs, but solenoid dwell is another thing.


Start at 6ms. IIRC thats what neobro & terminal err figured out on the is board.

pb34
11-28-2007, 04:40 PM
chnk - valve dwell is determined by springs, but solenoid dwell is another thing.

pb34 - we're hoping for it to be around $40

Wow, thats great!! I'd definately be interested in getting one at that price. Would you happen to be able to make one for the MR2?

mr1 sniper
11-28-2007, 05:11 PM
Wow, thats great!! I'd definately be interested in getting one at that price. Would you happen to be able to make one for the MR2?

or CAMD frame

DFSniper
11-28-2007, 05:19 PM
the CAMD board is just another version of the standard eframe, it will still drop i exactly the same.

Hob Hayward
11-28-2007, 05:42 PM
Yeah, pretty much anything is possible. We'll probably be able to expand to other board layouts once we have the initial ESP/CAMD board done. We can't try to do everything at once though as we're just two people...

DFSniper
11-28-2007, 05:51 PM
you havent happen to have figured out what controls the bps cap on the stock board, have you? you could make money off of uncapping stock boards for people.

oldironmudder
11-28-2007, 06:14 PM
its prolly programed into the board & would prolly have to replace something.....i really dont know though.

DFSniper
11-28-2007, 06:23 PM
yeah, from what i learned in physics, the programming itself is usually in one of the chips.

Hob Hayward
11-29-2007, 01:41 PM
Yeah, the board would control it...

Those chips are one write only though, and require a special programmer anyways...

Nah 85
11-29-2007, 02:44 PM
if it works and fits in a raven nexion I will be a happy baller :)

battlechaser
12-03-2007, 12:41 PM
Very cool idea. I might have to hit you guys up for a sidejob if I get the chance to go to electrical engineering. ;)

Hob Hayward
12-22-2007, 01:56 PM
Figured I might as well make an update, let you guys know this is still happening...

We now have a board with basic functionality, so far the only settings are dwell and eye delay. However, the board functions completely with its one firing mode - uncapped full auto (with eyes).

That means, the difficult hardware is done, and what remains is the coding for fire modes, switching fire modes, going into programming mode, changing settings, and on the fly eye disabling.

pb34
12-22-2007, 02:42 PM
Sweet! Sounds like your making some good progress.

HeadShot
12-22-2007, 05:54 PM
:evil: excelent. I can't wait to see a vid of you and your freinds work inside a great gat. still uncapped auto..I've never neen that befor.