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faithalone
10-11-2007, 04:03 AM
I was wondering what effect (if any) the valve spring has on the velocity of the marker? Is the velocity only affected by the tension of the main spring or is it also affected by the valve spring as well?

Do different valve springs have an effect on the velocity adjustment of a Spyder marker or just how fast it cycles?

Thanks!

oldironmudder
10-11-2007, 04:07 AM
The harder the valve spring is the shorter (in time, called dwell) it will stay open. Softer, the longer. Since there are so many variables in Spyders no two will work with the same spring combo.

DonF
10-11-2007, 01:45 PM
I have noticed that the maddman Spyder valve spring seems lighter than the black valve spring that comes stock in the VS. My super accurate finger push on the table was what I used to find this out. So maybe someone else can input too.

swoosh81
10-20-2007, 04:48 PM
32* spring kit with the light valve spring is the best I've found yet.

faithalone
10-20-2007, 05:11 PM
yeah i have that one and i agree that is a great kit, i also heard a rumor that they may stop makin those so you may want to stock up on a couple

DonF
10-20-2007, 05:13 PM
32* spring kit with the light valve spring is the best I've found yet.
Guess what - The stock vs spring is identical to the light 32 valvespring strength/size even color - the same....

faithalone
10-20-2007, 05:17 PM
great info, thanks for sharing that!! be cool

swoosh81
10-20-2007, 05:30 PM
Guess what - The stock vs spring is identical to the light 32 valvespring strength/size even color - the same....

What for measuring device did you use?

I got 4 unopened boxes of them. It's hard to find them anymore. I saw a set sell on ebay the other day for $25 plus shipping. I think I paid $5 box about 2 years ago.

swoosh81
10-20-2007, 05:39 PM
I had to check all 3 VS2's here in front of me and all the valve spring's are SILVER. The light valve spring in all the packs of 32* spring kits I got are BLACK. Hmmm, I wonder why?

EDIT- I just checked a new out of the box VS3 and the valve spring is also silver.

DonF
10-20-2007, 07:52 PM
Sorry if you have a problem.....

http://www.ottersccustoms.com/vs-review.html

If you check otters VS site you will see the Stock black valve spring - that is the same as the black 32 valve spring.

swoosh81
10-20-2007, 09:02 PM
Guess what - The stock vs spring is identical to the light 32 valvespring strength/size even color - the same....


Answer the question, how did you test it? Did you test it for compression and extension?

As far as spring color I'd like to know why every VS series gun I've taken apart is silver.

DonF
10-20-2007, 09:46 PM
As far as spring color I'd like to know why every VS series gun I've taken apart is silver.

Your not looking at your silver main/striker spring are you? The valve spring is the conical one that goes in front of the valve.
I am not the only one to find the stock VS valve spring and the light 32* the same, a simple search will of the VS forums will provide the info you are looking for.

If you have a problem and you would like to learn, then pm me. If not then have a good evening

DRAGON
10-20-2007, 10:22 PM
Ahem.....Please lemme intervene here......

I'm thinking DonF may not have a VS for the mere fact that since the balance valve is longer, the stock valve spring is shorter so it couldn't be remotely the same as the 32* kit springs. A VS spring is around 3" and a stock and 32* Spyder spring is around 4". The Shocktech main springs are about 4" and Maddman are 4.25"(Dragon has them all) -

The color of the stock VS spring has no bearing at all to its gauge strength. Far as color goes, it could just be simply the difference between what's provided with the newer and older VS's. The strength could have possibly been changed by now. I seriously doubt Kingman is using or has any ties with KEE/PMI/NPS/32* products -

On a side note, KEE/PMI/NPS/32* no longer distributes a 9 piece Spyder spring kit. AMOF they haven't for a while now. If you want kits by them you'll have to get ones for their Spyder clone products. They only come in a 6 pack. No one ever used the longer valve springs in the old Spyder kits anyways -

DonF
10-20-2007, 10:39 PM
Ahem.....Please lemme intervene here......

I'm thinking DonF may not have a VS for the mere fact that since the balance valve is longer, the stock valve spring is shorter so it couldn't be remotely the same as the 32* kit springs. A VS spring is around 3" and a stock and 32* Spyder spring is around 4". The Shocktech main springs are about 4" and Maddman are 4.25"(Dragon has them all) -

The color of the stock VS spring has no bearing at all to its gauge strength. Far as color goes, it could just be simply the difference between what's provided with the newer and older VS's. The strength could have possibly been changed by now. I seriously doubt Kingman is using or has any ties with KEE/PMI/NPS/32* products -

On a side note, KEE/PMI/NPS/32* no longer distributes a 9 piece Spyder spring kit. AMOF they haven't for a while now. If you want kits by them you'll have to get ones for their Spyder clone products. They only come in a 6 pack. No one ever used the longer valve springs in the old Spyder kits anyways -
Let me intervene because - Dragon if you have a VS you need to look at it closer.
I do have VS markers x2 - If you check my posts you can see that.
Now if you will look at even Otters VS web page You can see that the lenght of the Valve springs are the same as the earlier Spyders. The main springs are the ones that are shorter!
No one ever said that kingman had ties to 32* - but I suspect that the valve springs are sourced from the same manufacture. They are identical in rate/ size and color.
Black = Duh... the color is a just that - the color.
The later Vs markers could have changed but my latest marker is three months old. Nothing I said here is new news....
As for rate testing - if you have two springs that are identical size wise - you need a weight to test compression or extension- its simple math.

swoosh81
10-21-2007, 07:16 AM
Let me intervene because - Dragon if you have a VS you need to look at it closer.
I do have VS markers x2 - If you check my posts you can see that. What's your point I own over 10? Like you said to GOD so what if you own one, if you know nothing about it who are you?Now if you will look at even Otters VS web page You can see that the lenght of the Valve springs are the same as the earlier Spyders. The main springs are the ones that are shorter!
No one ever said that kingman had ties to 32* - but I suspect that the valve springs are sourced from the same manufacture. They are identical in rate/ size and color. No they are not, open your eyes and buy a proper machine.Black = Duh... the color is a just that - the color.
The later Vs markers could have changed but my latest marker is three months old. Nothing I said here is new news.... Over 10 different VS markers in my place and all have silver valve spring.As for rate testing - if you have two springs that are identical size wise - you need a weight to test compression or extension- its simple math. Are you kidding me your that dumb, I thought a mechanic would know better. You'll never work on my car.


Did you properly measure the coils in width and diameter? Doubtful the only good way to test a spring is with a machine. All the VS series guns in my place range from 1 year old to 1 week old. I'm the wrong person trying to convince of your brilliance, I know way to much about this gun to be bull****ted. So take it somewhere else. Keep it up you'll be made fun of just like you were on the nation.

DonF
10-21-2007, 08:01 AM
Did you properly measure the coils in width and diameter? Doubtful the only good way to test a spring is with a machine. All the VS series guns in my place range from 1 year old to 1 week old. I'm the wrong person trying to convince of your brilliance, I know way to much about this gun to be bull****ted. So take it somewhere else. Keep it up you'll be made fun of just like you were on the nation.

Yes I measured the coils ...

Your got it wrong Swooshy
1st you suggested that people replace a valve spring with exactly the same one that they have. Yet you insist that it cant be tested. Hopefuly people will come to thier own conclusions..... I'm not the only one to find that the 32* valve spring and the stock VS spring are identical and post here - do a search ..... maybe you might find someone else to bother for a while :) Like I said - what I posted was nothing new...

Its a good idea to try several valve springs and record the results on the markers anyway as different setups work better with different springs. My stock striker works well with the medium 32* but the titainium striker is lighter - the development on this is not done but it likes a light spring so far, maybe lighter than whats currently availible, but it seems to do ok with the Maddman valve spring or a very old worn stocker

2nd it really doesnt make a dent in my day if someone doesnt agree. I try to present my findings to make it easier for others with similar markers, thats it.

I dont always agree with others, but try to present my thoughts without lowering the threads to disrespect or profanity. I wasnt trying to convince you personaly of anything - as your opinion of me good or bad really dosent mean much to me either way.

Have a good weekend

swoosh81
10-21-2007, 08:28 AM
Yes I measured the coils ... With what device?

Your got it wrong Swooshy
1st you suggested that people replace a valve spring with exactly the same one that they have. Yet you insist that it cant be tested. Hopefuly people will come to thier own conclusions..... I'm not the only one to find that the 32* valve spring and the stock VS spring are identical and post here - do a search ..... maybe you might find someone else to slam for a while :) Until you test it with a machine that can test extension and compression, SHUT UP!! I didn't suggest to anyone to change it, I said what my findings where. So get your facts straight.
Its a good idea to try several valve springs and record the results on the markers anyway as different setups work better with different springs. My stock striker works well with the medium 32* but the titainium striker is lighter - the development on this is not done but it likes a light spring so far, maybe lighter than whats currently availible, but it seems to do ok with the Maddman valve spring or a very old worn stocker So you cut a spring which changed the charecteristics of it? I thought everyone knew that, I guess not. Also what for pressure are you running at? It has to be extremely high, and I won't believe it till I see it.
2nd it really doesnt make a dent in my day if someone doesnt agree. I try to present my findings to make it easier for others with similar markers, thats it.
Then quit hiding behind your computer trying to be a tough guy!!
I dont always agree with others, but try to present my thoughts without lowering the threads to disrespect or profanity. I wasnt trying to convince you personaly of anything - as your opinion of me good or bad really dosent mean much to me either way. Sounds good to me all you've come off as a know-it-all.
Have a good weekend You have a good weekend to buddy.


32* Icon kits are not the same as the spyder kits, hate to tell ya that. I found some of your recent posts that stated they are. Contact 32* if ya don't believe me, remeber they are clones not exact replica's.