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View Full Version : Internal VS Mods?


DonF
09-09-2007, 08:38 AM
I have been using my VS's for a while now and overall I think they are Ok. They are not the smoothest shooting marker, or the fastest (I really don't care about that one, as its fast enough) or the lightest, but overall they work fine and get the job done. As human nature goes though there is always the need to improve things. Its my opinion that Kingman did their home work and that does show. Its not as easy to get noticeable results from simple upgrades like with the earlier model Spyders.
I have been snooping the past threads and it seems that internally - Items like the ACP bolts and strikers have results that have been less than spectacular. I see quite a few posts that say the ACP items are sitting on the shelf and the originals are back.
The only thing I could find posted that seemed to produce a favorable result on a consistent basis was the 32 degree medium valve spring (from the older Spyder spring kit) and that was in efficiency only.
On the other hand the VS does have some cost saving measures too - I hate how I have to take out the battery because of the electronics drain, and I'm not so in love with the stock regulators -so the gun can be improved, but I'm not thinking regulators, barrels and boards - that's a given.... what about the internals?

Example -The stock VS bolt, this bolt is so different than the past model bolts. The reason behind the single O-ring and the bean shaped hole? Personally, in speculation, I think the design came from some serious testing. A large round hole, like what ACP uses is less costly to manufacture than the shape that the original VS bolt uses, so there must be a reason - most likely it had to affect the performance of the gun. Same with the single O- ring... Kingman used two on their bolt for years so a single one might indicate that the drag penalty out weighed the sealing advantage? And to replace it with a dual O-ring - giant hole bolt from the aftermarket might be a step backward?

Since the knowledge base on older Kingman products is so large and the VS is still relatively new comparatively. I was hoping that other users or maybe even Kingman Tech might drop a few bits of info here. I read that the Kingman sponsored team Bad Company was using other brand markers while their VS markers were being worked on ??? I wonder whats getting worked?
I'm thinking that if the VS did have allot of pre-production development its going to be really difficult for one item to produce a noticeable result by itself, as the entire combination of parts were meant to work as balanced package. The flip side is that if none of this type of info is available then you have less of a chance that a nine year old takes a $%&^ ! to the new VS that their parents just bought them --- but I'm not nine and neither are allot of other VS owners. If I screw up my marker I can fix it or use it for parts and buy another.

Again please dont post barrel / regulator / feedneck / trigger / grip / backhalf / board upgrades there are a million of those threads here already! Thank's

Kenny_McCormic
09-09-2007, 10:09 AM
you can polish the striker and sear to make it smoother.

codymm1014
09-09-2007, 12:24 PM
You can do that. You can also try and lighten your hammer. On PBNation the Kingman mod drilled a hole through the valve pin to get better results. For the bolt, I'm just replacing mine with a 2k2 timmy bolt.

oldironmudder
09-09-2007, 02:08 PM
Some of the basic mods will work like polishing the striker. Other than that not very much that I know of.

A test of the bolts would be worth it. Compare a stone stock to a double oring stock then maybe a drilled out stock one.

Cupping the striker face could help like it does with 1st gen spyders. If I had the specs on the stock main spring I could see if my spring catalog has some stiffer & weaker ones.

DonF
09-09-2007, 02:15 PM
You can do that. You can also try and lighten your hammer. On PBNation the Kingman mod drilled a hole through the valve pin to get better results. For the bolt, I'm just replacing mine with a 2k2 timmy bolt.

Cool great - feed back!

Lightening the hammer is easy (I have a lathe) but isnt the lack of weight the causing the problems with ACP's VS Hammer/ Striker? The reviews I have seen were not so hot.

Why the 2k2 bolt? Is there a noticeable performance increase somehow or is it a change ... just because?

I good idea on the polishing - I was already thinking that direction except I was planning on having a dryfilm lubricant applied afterward to decrease friction further. I have a freind that does that on bigger parts for government contractors. I think he can sneek my little parts in for a minimal charge

Drilling the valve pin - interesting ... got a link?

DonF
09-09-2007, 02:31 PM
If I had the specs on the stock main spring I could see if my spring catalog has some stiffer & weaker ones.
VS Main spring uncompressed lenght is 2.915 or close to that as this is a used spring.
Wire diameter of the stock VS main spring is.0395 = same as the Pilot. ID =.290
Doing a press test on the desk here -using my hands - It seems to be around the same spring rate as the Pilot too but my testing is not very accurate.

oldironmudder
09-09-2007, 02:40 PM
Im sure if there was a good spring kit out there for VSs fewer folks would have trouble with ACP internals.

codymm1014
09-09-2007, 03:23 PM
Why the 2k2 bolt? Is there a noticeable performance increase somehow or is it a change ... just because?
Just cause they fit spyders and I'm getting one for free
I good idea on the polishing - I was already thinking that direction except I was planning on having a dryfilm lubricant applied afterward to decrease friction further. I have a freind that does that on bigger parts for government contractors. I think he can sneek my little parts in for a minimal charge

Drilling the valve pin - interesting ... got a link?
Yea heres the link link to the thread (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2339583)

DonF
09-09-2007, 03:33 PM
Why the 2k2 bolt? Is there a noticeable performance increase somehow or is it a change ... just because?
Just cause they fit spyders and I'm getting one for free

Drilling the valve pin - interesting ... got a link?
Yea heres the link link to the thread (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2339583)

Looks like a thread on the older spyder valve mods and how the Vs's valve is slightly similar? Thanks though.

Kenny_McCormic
09-09-2007, 05:27 PM
Actually in theory you could put a vs2 striker and valve in any spyder to make it a gen 3 gun.

DonF
09-09-2007, 05:43 PM
Actually in theory you could put a vs2 striker and valve in any spyder to make it a gen 3 gun.
Ya but thats not the topic of the thread - there are other threads for people that want to do that.

codymm1014
09-10-2007, 03:04 PM
Actually that thread I gave you was what he did to his vs2. I talked to him about it and he said that he did that.

DonF
09-12-2007, 07:07 AM
Im sure if there was a good spring kit out there for VSs fewer folks would have trouble with ACP internals.

I'm sure your right. Since the valve springs all ready fit we have 1/2 a kit that fits all ready. I dont like cutting the Striker spring - but if there is none out soon - I'm pretty sure I can trim the end, heat the trimed end, and reform it then grind it flat. Not a perfect solution by a long shot but...
I have a Maddman Spyder kit, the 32 Degree Spyder spring kit is out of production per 32. I ordered a 32 Degree Icon kit as it should be similar. For $7 its not than big of a deal if its not compatable.

I contacted Dark Horizions about a titainium striker for the VS. "Hi Don,

We have a couple prototypes out in the general public and we are waiting
for feedback.

Eric"

Maybe there is such a thing as too light? Who knows but if someone has some extra stock VS internal parts, pm me . I want them to cut up on my lathe for "research"

I was halfway hoping that maybe someone from Kingman might take pitty on us and share some info. They made the darn thing so it stands to reason that they might have an idea about what mods the VS likes and doesnt.

oldironmudder
09-12-2007, 07:13 AM
Theres going to be a point where to light is just to damn light. I drew up a striker for gen ones & took even bit of unneeded material off it but it may end up being to light.

Just buy used main springs & spring kits & build a VS spring kit for you gear box. In the last month or so Ive more than doubled my collection of springs & I already had a good set of them.

Border411
09-14-2007, 04:55 AM
Another great mod is to use "Miltec" oil on the metal on metal contacts. This oil is used by military and police agencies for keeping their guns in great working oil. It actually starts to penetrate the metal to keep a long lasting film on all metal parts. I only use this stuff on my duty weapon (I am a cop), and it will keep your trigger swinging nice and smooth (also did the magnetic trigger mod---friggin sweet!) and cuts down on the drag on the sear and all the pivot points.

DonF
09-18-2007, 02:59 PM
The valve springs in the 32 degree Icon kit seem to be the same as the short valve springs in the now discontinued 32 spyder kit. In fact the black valve spring that comes stock in the VS is a twin to the 32 degree black valve spring. The striker springs will take some re-work to fit but I will try it as time allows and report back

oldironmudder
09-18-2007, 03:05 PM
I read some where else valve springs are the same. You could cut down gen 1 spring to fit.

DonF
09-18-2007, 03:53 PM
I dont want to just cut the 32 degree striker springs, I will reform the cut ends so that there is a flat seat.

oldironmudder
09-18-2007, 03:56 PM
grinder or file. You could heat the last coil to bend it flater then grind it. As soon as I find my spring catalog Ill look VS mains up.

DonF
10-11-2007, 12:51 PM
I was fortunate enough to get a VS Titanium Striker from Dark Horizons. http://www.darkhorizoncorp.com/
There are a few small glitches that come with any prototype and I have reported the problems so they can be fixed. They are mostly from the Vs's tolerances not being held to very strict standards (mine ended up being tighter than other VS markers), not their machining. Once these things are ironed out, I will post a full report. I predict that this will be one of those items that every VS owner wants
:D

http://www.fasthoppers.com/str.jpg

http://www.fasthoppers.com/str1.jpg

http://www.fasthoppers.com/str2.jpg

oldironmudder
10-11-2007, 05:21 PM
very nice!!

Those in grams? or ounce? I know a stock gen 1 striker is 2.3oz.

DonF
10-11-2007, 05:40 PM
Grams :) 25.1 = .885 oz

oldironmudder
10-11-2007, 05:47 PM
I need to call them up & talk to them about having one cut for me..... got a few ideas I wanna try out.

DonF
10-11-2007, 06:25 PM
The more interest the better. They are realy nice people.